Government wanting to stop pain meds scripts.
 

Saw on ABC News last night a segment on the government wanting to stop the amount of pain meds being prescribe by PM Drs., Dentists, ect. The US uses 80% of total pain meds prescribe worldwide.

People with really bad tooth acks, broken arms, back pain and more are going to be told to suck it up and take aspirin.

I hope this does not inter-fer with everyones treatments.

Anyone else seen this.

According to the facts giving to the Drug Zar. the United States uses 80% of world wide narcotic pain meds.

Maybe this is due to many injured vets. coming home disabled from the war with wounds and receiving the help needed to cope with their pain.

Also if you live in Fl. they have more pain clients then 7-Elevens because there are more elderly people living there than in other countries.

The disable and elderly in the USA have paid the price by giving to this country and are owed the very best health care that we can give them for the rest of their life.

We need to stop the abuse the Feds put in place that allows the addicts to take full advantage of by abusing system at tax payers expense.

The Fed needs to stop putting fear into our pain managed doctors so we can get the proper pain treatment need nothing more noting less. Let the PM Drs. take care of their patience without big brother breathing down their backs. I need and want my PM Dr. to be able to address my pain problems and care for them as best as possible.

The Feds need to go after the drug companies advertising old drugs as new pain meds. Every night from 5:00p.m. on 7 out of 10 adds are for drugs. The drug companies keep coming up with new drugs as fast as the come up with new supportively new health issues. There are more new sin-drones each month to keep up with the new drugs. ENOUGH ALREADY.

Lets stop this madness and the rest should take care of its self.

Make no Misteak
 

Iam a vet, I am a C/P patient, My doc wants to totally change a 13 year regiman, send me to a pain clinic,(an hour away - yes they have a shuttle) the paperwork says it is voluntary - I no longer go to the VA - I got Medicaid and get treated far better. I have NO use for a doctor that thinks he is god and Yell's - yes you heard right and will not answer questions, like I am an idiot. I know more about my conditions then he does. I got SSI very quickly, I should report him but I have learned not to rock the boat - BE AWARE - A lot of docs check this and other boards so be careful what you say.
Luck
alex44:cool:

Old Drugs?
 

I don't know about the statement about old drugs being played off as pain meds. I take 2 "epilepsy" meds for nerve pain and the relief is SO much better than what I get from my Morphine OR the Fentanyl patch that I wear. I have herniated & badly degenerated discs at 3 levels. The ones in my neck cause me to have horrific headaches, and cause pain AND numbness to radiate out my shoulder and down to my fingertips. Were it not for Topomax and Zonisamide (both of which cause weight loss-- yay!) I would be in bad shape. I only have numbness in the very tips of my fingers and my arm feels pretty good. No headaches either! I'm pretty glad to be taking those meds that are meant for other things but had surprising side effects.

hello
 

Yes, I know about what the Gov. is doing with pain meds. I do live in fla. and it is very true that you can go doctor shopping which is horrible to do. This state has a bad rep. because there are doctors who do this and know they are doing wrong by their patients. I could have gone to one of these places, a few are less than a mile away. I chose a real pain specialist. I will gladly give my thumb print, and prove I do not abuse if I have to. I hate giving up more of my personal information, but these meds do need to be regulated more. I see the results down here, and how the good doctors now have to be so carefull. I hope my doctor does watch me and what I say on this site. I really don't keep secrets from him at all. maybe they should hearhat we have to say. I think there are real reasons for taking these opiod meds. People truely need them to have some quality of life. That is the issue as stake. Good doctors are being more carefull because the regulators are breathing down their necks. It only takes a few bad apples to spoil the whole bunch. ginnie

This is also a problem in Australia where prescriptions are not recorded and analysed, so doctor and chemist shopping is easy.
Pseudo-ephedrine -used to make drugs at home-is monitored and so it is able to be controlled to a large extent.
There is talk of a national data-bank of prescriptions for pain killers as well, as oxycontin is a big problem.
I think it's a good idea. The doctor can check up on your record, as can the chemist.

From one Vet to another
 

Hey alex44, First let me thank you for your service to this country! What priority group were you in at the VA Medical Center.

With a large amount of men and women coming back from Iraq & Afghanistan with medical needs they drop lower groups to make room, it's not by choice they just don't have the funds.

However no one Vet or not should get subsrandard treatment or treated with disrespect; the VA Medical center has a patient care office not only to report your lack of respectiful treatment but also has a patient advocate.

I go to a truly wonderful VA Medical Center and have a great medical team, who not only treat me with the utmost respect but also help me physically & mentally toward a better quality of life. And also is the best medical facility I've ever been to!!

Glad you have found a place where you feel you get good treatment with respect!

Good luck!

thank you Vets
 

[Thank you to both of you, and to the rest of our service members who gave of themselves for our country. I have two in my family that served. My adopted son Joe, is over in Africa digging wells someplace. Nobody should ever yell at you for any reason, especially at a medical facility. Maybe for the sake of those that follow you into that same Dr. you should report it. If my boys were ever treated with such disrespect, I think I would be in DC myself to complain.
I have pain issues also and don't want to reduce further after my surgery C3-7. I am also limping now. Why is there this big push to remove a person from all meds.? I think dr.s are afraid of what this new Gov. Bill will do to them. I am afraid for fantastic dr.s there are who are willing to help with pain. How do we protect, our doctors, the patients, while getting rid of the bad guys who take to the streets? This issue is going to effect most of us with our doctors. The good doctors that are legitimate are being effected very negatively and I am not sure what can be done. In my own case, I will continue to be honest and curtious to my dr. as he really has been with me.
Maybe if the dr.s read the boards more, they could find out alot more about our real mental state regarding all these issues. Healing isn't just about the body. Thats why that Dr. who yelled at you was so wrong. I can't imagin coming home a wounded vet, to be treated bad. That should be changed. thanks again to all of you, ginnie:hug:

I hit the roof when the local VA hospital gave my father, a WW II vet, a hard time over needing to write an oral chemo script. It was outrageously expensive and his Medicare and supplement would not cover it. VA would. It was hard enough that he had to endure a major cancer scare and surgery. He didn't need the VA run around. The oncologist that he saw said he was tired of writing chemo scripts for patients who had their surgery in a civilian hospital. I told him if he couldn't network with doctors outside the VA system, our congressman (friend of the family) would help him find Dad one that could. We left with a script and an arrangement for him to see a VA oncologist q 12 months. I still wrote and called everyone and their dog about the treatment. If I had not been with him, he would have gone home empty handed.

Thanks to your father and prayers for his recovery
 

Hey spine95, First please tell your father thanks for his service to the this great country and the whole world in his case!

Second as I told Alex44 each VA Hosp. has a patient advocate and I urge you to use that avenue to help not only your dad but also all other vets.

Also I urge you not to judge the whole system or even that facility on one bad egg. Furthermore if you have another center close to where you live you can go to any one you choose.

Keep strong for your father and God bless you for being there for him!

Rich, had I not been able to handle the VA doctor, my next step was the Advocates' office. I still contacted them the next day when I had cooled off. I wasn't about to do it while that hot under the collar. They were very supportive and thanked me for the call as they had received other complaints on that doctor and they were monitoring him. They requested a follow up letter from me to go into his file. He was reassigned to another doctor that they said I would be pleased with. He saw Dad annually for the next 18 years and they actually became chums. Have a good day.

Hey spine95, I wasn't meaning to imply you weren't taking good care of your Dad, nor that you were unaware of the right things to do. I am really glad, your Dad got properly taken care of thanks to a caring and loving son.

I really was trying to offer support and helpful info. I do have a working knowledge of the VA Hosp, and for a long time had a negitive feeling toward them. Now I really feel they are trying to clean up their act, but when I hear of a Vet such as your Dad being mistreated I also get hot under the collar.

Thanks for being a good Son
God Bless You!

EEEEK!!! I never thought you were being critical. Sorry if I gave that impression. I have been a major pain flair from a fall for a couple of weeks and tend to have poor communication skills in that state. So very sorry. Have a great day.

I don't understand
 

Why giving chronic pain patients a chance to have a few hours a day not in twisted,life stopping pain, is a big deal. something is making the issue of the fact that americans take 80% of the worlds pain meds, like maybe the figures are wrong. Countries like Afghanistan have been producing their pain meds for centuries, because they NEED THEM. I'll bet if all countries had reasonable medically sanctioned use of pain killers they would consume vastly more drugs, for those who NEED them. I am sane, it's the chronic pain that has a chockehold on my wanting to end it.

I find it difficult to believe that the US consumes 80% of the world's pain medication. Regardless of what the percentage is, I look for it to go up not down. I don't care how much belly aching various groups and govt agencies do, it is getting harder and harder for chronic painies to get approved for various treatments and therapies due to cut backs. Comfort and quality of life mean little. They have really raised the bar on what is considered improved level of function if you are a senior chronic painie. In short, we are a poor investment. If attitudes don't change (quickly), we are only going to get authorized to get the least expensive pain meds. ie Methadone.

I live by myself and am very dependant on my home health aid as my kids live several hundred miles away and lead very busy lives. I see them about twice a year. The homebound program is being eliminated in my state and that is the program that pays for my home health. I look to be dropped after the first of the year. There are plenty of private pay agencies that do minimal light housekeeping, simple errand running and socialization but they cost a small fortune when your income is 50% below the poverty level. This county has two community based programs which offer similar assistance but the waiting list is huge. I have a friend who has been on a wating list for two years and looks like she will end up in a Medicaid subsidized nursing home in a month or two.

For those of you that are not aware of it, most states received secton 8 voucher money on July 1. If you are are in need of a voucher do a web search for section 8. The location to sign up differs from state to state. In KY the location is kyhousing.org. This is a pre-application form that must be filled out and then they send you that application package and an appt. date to see somebody. I have waited four years just to get on the waiting list. I was on the computer at midnight July 1, filled out the little form and sent it in at 12:02. Several minutes later I got an email saying it was received and filled out properly. Since this info. did not hit the news and most of the property owners knew nothing about this until yesterday, I feel pretty certain that I am way up on my county's list. If you need this sort of assistance and qualify, move quickly as there are always far more applicants than there are vouchers in many cities. As I said, I have been waiting and been paying full value on a handicapped section 8 apt. for four years. Best wishes and a happy holiday weekend to all.

I wonder if that 80% takes into consideration that many other contries do not require prescriptions for the lower level narcotic painmeds, like vicodin?

I have lost 2 good docs to the feds war on drugs, one packed up and went to a friendlier state, the other just stopped prescribing pain meds at all, only gave a referral to a pain clinic. I have a great GP now. I am on lots of meds and prefer they all be prescribed by one doc so as to monitor interactions.

I am hoping that the climate eases for our pain docs.

Free Kittens

It has effected treatment
 

I have had 3 surgery's for neck injury and have chronic pain all treatments have been tried and I just went to even try for the SCS unit and was told that due to the scar tissue it isn't recommended now I have have tired for 6 months to live without pain meds have ended up back at hospital 5 times now no doctors will treat for pain everyone says do to new regulations their hands are tied.I have to go to the hospital and they treat it to get my blood pressure down and put in their report need to be treated for chronic pain but the doctors say go to my PCP and he says go to pain management I don't know what to do I am very tired of hurting and being this way.If they read their own reports they pay millions of dollars for it shows most problems are with street drugs and also only around 5% of people being treated by doctors have problems 5% of all Americans I really think they need to go back to school.The worst thing is now since the government has tried to take care of our medical business it is one of the other things that is failing in this country.
I know I am are my wits end.

Sorry that you are having a hard time finding help for your pain. I've been reading your other posts.

You say that since you stopped taking your pain meds for 6 months that now PM Drs. can't help treat your pain that their hands are tried. Could you please explain sorry I missed something and trying to understand.

Life is hard enough without these added problems. Hang in there it can only get better from here.

Once we tried every procedure they continued to prescribed Dilaudid and Valium for about 3 monts then decided that they nolonger wanted to treat me they tried to pawn it off to my PCP doctor that said he could not treat for chronic pain.And due to my wife having words with my PCP,s boss I was let go from his services.Long story to that.But she was in the right.
At one visit the doctor said I was using to much cause I had been on them for two years so when I was dropped by the one treating me I stopped all meds then my b/p went up and back to the hospitals it was , I can not even sit up very long due to the pain so after 6 + months I haven't taken anything and started trying to find a new treatment but till I saw this doctor for the SCS all others have said due to the DEA and government regulations they no longer prescribe opioid s and we tried Suboxone and it failed so now out of all research I have done it was for nothing , I cant get any help I have kidney stones , kidney infection , b/p is up and the pain is gone above what I can control I really don't know how much more I can take.

too much pain
 

I am one of hundreds of veterans in Grand Junction being forced off my pain meds. *edit* I will not live in that kind of pain again. I have TOS, RSD, Stenosis (sp), DDD and other things. I simply can not face a life time of pain and becoming more of a burden to my husband. I was still in pain on the meds but I could live with that amount of pain.

My new VA doctor keeps telling me that the pain won't be that bad and the pain meds are what are causing my increased pains. This BS of forcing Vets who don't have cancer off the pain meds is coming from the top of the VAMC system. *edit*.

I hate the people that are doing this,. I feel so betrayed by my government. we need an icon with a screw in the back.

You're getting morphine and Fentanyl plus the anti-seizure meds? I'm very surprised they're allowing you to use them all. I got to use them as stand alone treatments.
Those meds work for some of us but I'm one who tried them all and just got more pain and side effects. My Fentanyl doesn't work as well as my morphine but it did allow me to have some quality of life. As they "wean me off" my meds I'm in constant pain and I'm NOT going to live like this. I'm glad the meds worked for you but sadly they don't work for everyone.

I know they do their best at our VAMC but I had to go to the ER on Monday because I couldn't get in to see my doctor. I waited for 6 hours before I was seen. WHY because they only had 1 doctor and nurse on duty. Before there were always 2 or 3 doctors on duty. Yet our legislators still get gold standard medical. On top of this all veterans who don't have cancer are being forced off their pain meds. What a great thank you from our country. I feel totally betrayed by my government.

They say there is an increased chance of us dying early. Like who wants to live 40 years in pain??? I'd rather have 10 good years then 60 crappy ones. I think this is all coming from the DEA who want to keep their jobs even if all of us die of pain. They also say that the pain meds are causing increased pain in us not the progression of the diseases or injuries we have. My new doctor tried telling me that the opiods are causing me to develop more pain receptors and that is what is causing my increased pain not the injuries. I hate when people **** on my head and then tell me it's raining.

According to one lady I saw at the VA ER, they are now running death panels to decide if they should treat your cancer or let you die. She was outraged when her husband was dx'd and was told that the panel would decide if he would get treatment.

How many veterans are going to die at the hands of their government? And are any of the doctors going to stand up for the vets?

What was once a good medical system is being destroyed by our legislators who act like 2 year olds and the bean counters.

I'm glad you found a solution. I have no other options other then the VA. I too am an expert on my condition but the doctors could care less. My VAMC doctor keeps telling me that she's not taking my meds away to hurt me but rather to help me. All this help is going to kill me.

And I have no reason to be careful. Anything I say here I've already said to the VA.

They really don't need antsy excuses to do what they are doing. Even if there was no doctor shopping going on they'd simply find another reason to do this. The DEA must persecute us in order to keep their jobs. the drug war is a failure that has cost us too much money and needs to be dropped. How many good doctors are now in jail because they actually gave a crap @ their patients????? Wouldn't it be nice if doctors made medial decisions without having to worry about losing their licenses?

Great question and post.

I had one doctor tell me that the Bible says we should suffer our pain and that's why he doesn't support pain management or euthanasia. I wonder if he'd feel the same if he suffered the amount of pain we do.

As long as there is a DEA and a government that doesn't give a crap about the people (they think we will all just allow them to do what they want because we haven't done anything in the past) this kind of stuff will continue. We need to band together and start demanding that this cease. That they give up this stupid war on drug and allow us adult to make our own decisions. Anything between consenting adult or done by adults should be legal as long as it doesn't harm anyone ELSE!!

This push to get all veteran off pain meds is about saving money and hoping that we all die so they don't have to use money to treat us.

I think it's time we got the ACLU to do something that might actually get them good press. I've written both out local papers without any luck.

I been given so many different stories by the VA I can hardly keep them straight. First I was told that new studies show that we can die from the meds (like you can't die from pain) and that because a few vet sell their meds they just can't afford to allow us to take them. Then I was told that the orders came from the top. Then I was told that they looked at the amount of pain meds being given at the VA and decided they were excessive. I don't guess that it occurred to them that maybe when you send soldiers to war that alot of painful injuries are the result. You know that if it was a congressman or senator who was in pain he/she would get what ever they needed no questions asked.

I'd like to hear what other vets have to say about this issue. Is this happening in other VAMC's and if so what are you being told?

RE: hold on
 

We are indeed sabotaged by our government. I will not go through the kind of pain I experienced before eithor. I have had enough. I understand how you feel. My father had throat cancer, he seized in my arms on the floor more than once. His pain was so great all I could do is sit and rock him in my arms. Nobody should ever go through that ever! We are humans not animals, infact animals are treated better. I face a throat cancer right now just as my dad did. They are going to try to "hold" it off,....nice huh. Well I am not doing the prescribed treatment. NO WAY in hell will I have my throat and esophogus burned out to see what will happen. NO WAY...I have been off line for awhile because my mood is so bad. I joined final exit. If I face that kind of pain my father had to endure, there will be one less human on earth. I do understand and have made that choice to seek council. This site may not agree, and that is their right. However, pain can only be tolerated to a certain degree without going out of ones mind. After watching both my parents suffer through normal medical traditions, I have picked something else. God bless all of us. ginnie

RE: God and suffering
 

The God I know, does not want us to suffer. That is why he put these drugs on earth and gave us brains to use them. I do not believe our God wants us to suffer just so we can go to heaven. No, not for one minute do I believe that. We have tools these days to help. doctors are becoming more and more afraid, and less and less compassonate. I do belive compassion was one of the things stressed in the bible. I believe in the compassionate care, more in end life senerios than normal medical attention allows. Even though my father had hospice, it was not enough to control his pain. That will not happen to me. I always pray for those on this site.

RE" edit" word
 

I know that word, You are entitled to say whatever you wish. I say it often myself when I am presented with pain. Nobody is graceful in dealing with terrible pain that I know of. ginnie

Ginnie, Hospice care now is very good and they are great about keeping people pain free, My BIL died a few years ago and the hospice he was in (Denver CO) made sure he felt no pain. He was at peace when he died and they allowed him to decide how much or little pain meds he had. You can also talk with the hospice near you and find out how they treat pain. They're not taking away opiods from cancer patients only those of us unlucky enough to have non cancerous pain. Should you have questions email me off list

RE: not so sure
 

No I just can't put myself into the hands of just hospice if that time should arrive. Two years ago, a couple was seperated in the hospital, the night he died. they were not married and visiting hours ended. If you wind up critical in the hospital I have not seen much in the way of good. It is just my own personal experiences. Society has distanced us from death and even the subject is touchy. My mom died in 2000. In hospice, but they removed me from any choices I wanted for her. I knew her the best. I know what she wanted. Not to linger weeks in a semi coma. My dad in 95 was the one to suffer, throat cancer as I said. I am now at risk for the same disease unfortunately. I will not be making the same choices my father made if the same should occur. The medical community for the most part gives pain medications only barely to controll most peoples pain. For sure we are not running around playing tennis! I did not get enough pain control for even my last surgery, why would I trust that same hospital to give adequate pain control when they did not at my last little visit? If I choose a therapy, I will be in trouble with pain in no uncertain terms. It's a given from what I am reading and what the doctor has so far talked about. I have some testing yet to go through and alot of education to get to before I make any kind of decision. I will go for informed choice. I do not for the most part trust the doctors and pain control. thanks for allowing me my opinion ginnie:hug:

Choice
 

I agree with you about informed choice. But hospices are different from hospitals. They are there for the comfort of the patient (I even heard of one thaqt let a ladies cat stay with her,.

My bil wasn't married to his gf yet she stayed with him all the time. They got married a few days before he died. Check out the different hospices. They all have different rules. If you do this now you'll at least have option. Also have them update you on changes. The hospice here in Grand Junction are also great.

I do understand what you're saying but being alone when you die is a tough option.

and you're right about our attitudes towards death in this country. anything not "nice" no one wants to hear about or see. To bad Jack Kevorkian was vilified. I feel he was doing God's work for those of us in pain. And the gov has made sure no one else takes up his work

Hi coloVet
 

I will look into the hospices around this area for reference. good idea. I just don't want to put all my apples in one basket. I don't trust easily especially regarding pain. I am not very good about it. If you have a dear friend you should be allowed to be around that person when you are sick. In other countries it is unheard of that a friend or relative would not stay all the time with the patient in the hospital with them! I read about it and it seems like a great idea for the patients and a good idea for the nurses. Instead of bothering nurses for water or essentials, the family or friend does that. Need help to bath or use the restroom the families do that too. We need to join forces with family and the treatment of the whole person. Our medical system is dysjointed. Even physicians don't talk to each other with the same patient. I wrote to Dr. Kavorikain in prison. I do have a letter back which I treasure. He was a good soul who tried to help. I also have a book he wrote which is not published. If you could see how he laughs (did) you would be surprised. He also wrote music. There was alot more to the man than what the public saw. More doctors need to be open to what their patients need and want. What if I would refuse treatment for cancer? Do I even have that right in our country? Things like this doctors should talk about. hope you are OK. I always come back to the site for support. ginnie

AFAIK, you always have the right to refuse treatment for anything, as long as you are not deemed (legally/medically) incompetent to make that decision. Another reason to have a living will in place.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance...care_directive

HBO did 2 very good films on Dr. Kevorkian. One was a documentary,
http://www.hbo.com/documentaries/kevorkian/index.html
and one was a docu-drama with Al Pacino playing Kevorkian.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Don...now_Jack_(film)

For any that don't have cable, check with your local libraries or video rental stores.

Doc

Re: will look
 

Hi dr. smith, I will look at those sites you sent along. I have all my directives in place, and am working on correcting a trust issue. I am not wanting to proceed with proceedures right now. Lots more testing needs to be done for me. I am already sick of it and tired of being in pain. I hate being put under all the time for biopsys of this and that. Now that something has popped up, well they want to do more, and what treatment the doctor offered is not something I want to do in any case. so I am wondering why I should bother with all the other tests, when I know I will not choose to treat the condition, or cancer if thats what it is. My dad died of thoat cancer in a horrible way as I have stated on this site. I am not going down the way he did. always ginnie does anyone else get stubborn about not wanting anything more for awhile?

Guinea Pig Complex?
 

Hi Ginnie,

Lots of us get it, bouncing from doc to doc, test to test, med to med, procedure to... well... I think you get it. I've sure felt like that lots of times.

Please forgive me if you've mentioned... how long ago was it that your father had cancer? I ask because advances in knowledge, procedures, & techniques in some areas are progressing at amazing rates. Ten years today can be like 50 years 50 years ago (hope that made sense).

Doc

Re: my dad
 

Hi Dr. Smith, Thank you for your response. My father died in 95'. His throat cancer after lots of intervention, took him with great pain. I never want to see something like that again, nor will I. I have been in some kind of medical problem since I was 29 loaded with auto immune problems, spinal fussions, surgeries for numerous things, 9 so far. I don't want any more. I didn't even make it a year without medical problems to be right back in the surgery room. My last surgery was horrible to go through. My whole body is tired of medical proceedures period. So is my soul.
Much of what occurs with Baretts esophogus depends on how you can control the stomach acid, that is producing the bad cells. My doctors first responce is that trials are underway, that burn out the lining to your esophogus and stomach, then they hope what comes back isn't cancer. he mentioned no other therapy. I am on strong proton pump inhibitors, but it is not doing the trick for my stomach. My family is in crisis as you may have read. I cannot control my stomach acid as my family is trying to make me homeless. Going through a therapy like what was mentioned to me has no appeal any more than does living in my car. I don't want to do it as I have no future, or stability financially. The Gov. doesn't give me enough to stay where I am, my family won't let me move. The catch 22 makes it that I don't want to try anymmore. ( my home is in trust to me). I currently have a state attorney looking at my documents (miracle) and represents four years of my work to find a solution. With your family in opposition to you even when your life is on the line, doesn't make you want to continue on at all. This site has helped me to cope through some ruff things. thanks for asking about me. I do need help and prayers, like so many do on this site. ginnie

Hi alex
 

[I am a pain patient too. Lucky to have the doctor I do. Sometimes I wish the doctors who see us would read these sites. This is the place where truth resides, and some doctors just don't listen to people. To be yelled at or to be treated with disrespect when we are in pain is a sham. The medical profession would learn alot about us if they did visit here. I don't mind, a dose of the truth, and the human side of our conditions is just what the doctors should learn. We are to be compassionte with each other. ginnie:hug: