Fenugreek seeds:
 

At Melody's urging, I bought some Fenugreek tea bags and started it this week.

I did some research on this herb and found many medical uses, including helping with blood sugar stablilization and other things.

I also searched some diabetes sites, and found that using this herb for diabetes may or may not work for all people.

I also found one study that showed that Fenugreek seeds steeped in hot water gave the best results.

So I have had 3 days of one serving of 8 oz steeped 5 minutes in hot water once a day so far.

Typically my dawn phenomenon starts at around 1am. If I don't have a snack then, it will start going up from 110 or so to 130 by 8am. The first morning after the 1st Fenugreek tea serving, I was at 123 (and this was after pasta the night before, which will raise me to 130 or more fasting). So that showed some effect.
The second day? 113 at 1am and 113 at 9am. No dawn effect at all!

3rd day? 112 at 8:45am, and 89 at 1:30 before lunch.
All 3 of these days I only took one metformin 500mg at bedtime.

I am not too pleased with the taste... so yesterday I mixed it with ginger ale (diet) and that helped esp with the aftertaste which seems to last an eternity for me!

There are claims for Fenugreek to reduce cholesterol, so I will have to wait for my next tests in fall to see if that occurs. Also there are claims for anti-inflammatory effects, which I have not seen yet.

So far so good. This is not readily available at stores. Only one healthfood store has it near me. But I did find my brand at Puritan's Pride online, and I will probably order it there.

I am not sure how other forms of this herb would work. I decided on the tea infusion because of the study I found at PubMed.

So thanks Melody! If this keeps up, I'll be able to keep the metformin (Glumetza) at a low dose for a while!

Try Dreamfields pastas. A bit pricy, most people don't spike on it.

Thanks for the suggestion. I use the new Barilla Plus rotini now, and cook it ala dente.

I looked online and several stores near me are said to carry this. (I haven't noticed it tho there).

I only have pasta once a week or so, but on vacation it would be nice to have more often because cooking up there is difficult.

I figured this summer would be a Beano summer! LOL

The dramatic effects from the Fenugreek have left. But I do feel better all around. Less stomach nausea (from the metformin and my gall bladder in general), and I am noticing some anti-inflammatory effects on my arthritis too. So I am still doing it. I wonder if mixing the tea with ginger ale is affecting it somehow? :confused: I'll do the tea straight today to see what happens. (I just can't stand it straight! :rolleyes:).

Perhaps use a straw?

Hi Mrs. D.

I'm just pleased as punch that I could do something nice for YOU because of all the nice things you do for all of us here at Neurotalks.

I do notice that I get gas once in a while. But I do eat my veggies. Lots of veggies.

And about the taste of the Fenugreek tea. I don't care. I drink it cold, hot, whatever.

And get this. The other day I forgot it was simmering on the stove and all the water ran out.

I just added more water to the seeds, did not turn the gas back on, and let the seeds seep into the water. In 30 minutes the water turned that caramel brown it always does.

and it tasted the exact same taste.

HORRIBLE.

But I don't care at all. I take a few swigs and that's that.

I remember the days I was on Metformin. Always in the bathroom. Couldn't leave the house until 12 noon.

Ugh!!!

So for me the Lantus does what it needs to do.

Whether or not I ever get off of it, I don't care at all.

I'm at the point where, instead of asking myself

"What the heck do I need to do to get off an injection every day".......

to

"I will do whatever I need to do to control my diabetes to the best of my ability'


I should have had this mind set 20 years ago, BUT, better late than never!!

Hmmm..

My tea does not turn brown. It gets a milky yellow color and some of the mucilage coating the seeds, dissolves off too.

The directions say steep 3 minutes, but I do 5 or a bit more and then squeeze out the bag on a spoon. I heat the water separately and then pour into a glass. I base this on the technique for Yerba Mate, which claims that antioxidants and some constituents of that tea, degrade in high temperature water. So cooking the Fenugreek does not seem like a good idea to me. When things turn brown in chemistry that means oxidation. And that is what we want to avoid with organic herbal compounds.

Today I won't mix with the ginger ale. (that was working well for the taste, but the blood sugars are not responding as they did on the tea alone).

The taste is not so bad as the AFTERTASTE... I can taste that stuff for hours after! My cat was interested in the new odor and my kitchen is starting to smell of it too.

Wow, look how different our bodies react to the way we make this tea.

In the beginning, I made regular tea with it. I steeped it 5 minutes. I even chewed the seeds. Did nothing.

I then boiled water, added the seeds and didn't simmer, I just let the seeds do their thing. Water didn't change color that much. Did nothing.

Then I experimented.

When I first added the seeds to regular cold water, DID NOT BRING IT TO A BOIL, but just let it simmer on the stove for 20 minutes or so, and then the color turned to a caramel brown color, THAT WAS WHEN THE STUFF WORKED FOR ME.

So that's what I do.

I even forgot to take my few sips last night and this morning my sugar was 120.

The other morning it was 72.

I know other diabetics. And now I know when to shut up.

And believe me, I had no bad side effects on my blood sugar being 72 upon arising. I felt perfectly fine.

And I had the tea before bed time.

I was at a friend's place and she's diabetic and we usually ask each other how our morning readings are going. I got her on the tea also.

I said "oh, this morning my reading was 72"

She got mad, jumped up and said: 'I KNEW you were going to say that". I said "why, what's the matter?' She said "My sugar was 127"

I said "to some people, 127 is a gift, don't sweat it. Her numbers used to be 600 and she was hospitalized and she's a type 2 and she's now skinny and she's on Lantus and other oral meds. She is now very thin. They test her iron etc.
When she got her a1c reading one day and it was 6.5 she was all upset.

I said "don't be upset, some people have an a1c of 10". "Be happy that you are doing all you can do".

She then said "so how come yours is 72 and mine was 127"

I looked at her and said "Because your diabetes is not MY diabetes"

And then later in the day I was speaking to another diabetic and when I happened to mention that my sugar was 72 that morning, she had a scowl and said "That's too low, it should be 120"

I said "do you know that the range is now 60 something to 99"

She said "I don't care what they say, 72 is too low, it's not good for you".

I just now keep my mouth shut because I've realized that some woman are jealous when your sugar reading is lower than theirs.

And some time ago I was on the phone with yet another diabetic friend (oh my god, all my friends are diabetics now aren't they, but they are also 300 lbs).

Anyway we were talking and she had said her sugar was 250 because she ate a few crackers the night before. I simply said "your sugar is NOT 250 because you ate crackers the night before, and you know it'.

She admitted that she cheats. I said nothing because what on earth am I going to say? She asked me what my sugar was that morning and when I said "85" she started yelling "Oh my god, that's too low, I could never get up and my sugar is 85 I would have the shakes and not feel good, I feel good when my sugar is 200"

I said 'but you know that your sugar is not supposed to be 200, don't you?
"

Her response was "I don't care, I feel better when it's 200"

Since I have absolutely no response for that kind of statement, I change the subject.

Hey, if someone wants to believe that having a sugar reading of 200 upon arising is perfectly fine, then well, it's THEIR business.

Nothing I can do.

And all these people know I sprout, know how it has affected me and say "you are nuts, that's impossible"

Really????

lol

Your friend with the 200 just THINKS she feels good. She's afraid to find out how to feel better. I run between 65-140 constantly. I'm on the OmniPod.

Or the next time you are discussing this, ask them if they like having their feet attached to their legs. And having their eyes, stomach, kidneys, heart in good working condition. Those are the possible complications. Preventable by getting glucose into normal range. Diet meds excercise.

Believe me, I HAVE tried. I've explained neuropathy. I once was having a conversation with the diabetic who thinks her sugar at 200 is fine. I remember the conversation because she was saying "My toes hurt, they don't feel right?" So NATURALLY I just said "maybe you should have this looked into, you know that diabetes causes certain conditions".

That's when she yelled at me and said "Oh, YOU MEAN NEUROPATHY??? Just because diabetics get neuropathy, doesn't mean that I HAVE IT!!"

I responded. I never said you did, but if you have a symptom of something, you might want to get it looked at"

She actually stopped socializing with me once I completed the ACCORD program. I had invited her to go into the program with me. She knew she would get all meds for free and all exams for free but she said "That's too much work and it's too hard to stay on a diet"

I told her 'well, it's up to you". We would talk all the time (she lived near me), and we would get together and as I lost weight and controlled my sugar SHE DID NOT. I NEVER said a word. I'm not stupid, I know not to do that.

Didn't matter. I guess she got tired of associating with someone who was able to control their diet and health.

She distanced herself from me. She is now very ill, very big and her sugars are all the place. We talk from time to time but that's it.

Her husband actually approached me once (a long time ago), he was very afraid for her and actually asked me to intervene. I said "she's not going to like that you came to me". He said 'I don't care, you have to do something".

I told him I would but that he must not tell her that it was he who approached me. I told him I would gently bring it up without mentioning his name.

As soon as he got home later that night, guess what he did? He told her "I spoke to Melody, she wants to talk to you about your diabetes".

Believe me THAT did not go over well.

I would never trust him again after that one. She DID NOT appreciate me talking to him about her health.

So from that day on, I don't open my mouth.

The only people I talk to about health are on this forum and my sprout forum.

I keep my nose out of other's personal business.

I want to stay alive.

lol

I steeped the tea for 15minutes this time. And drank it straight.

I must be getting used to it? It didn't seem so bad this time.

I am 10 pts lower this morning than the past 2 days. Less dawn phenomenon.

I Googled this, and found every single entry different from another! No consistent information!

I did find an interesting way to make a tincture of this...takes 27 days and uses Vodka.

It appears that the seeds in the tea I use are crushed... into bits. The actual seeds of Fenugreek are larger. Some of the directions say not to crush the seeds, others say breaking them up a bit is advisable.

Do you use whole seeds, Melody? Should I get whole seeds?

I have learned many years ago, that you cannot discuss health issues with people. They get very defensive. They want to talk, but will not listen to anything constructive. It is mostly a vent on their part.

Hi Mrs. D.

I have never crushed any seeds, mashed any seeds, I use the whole seeds. I just take a few tablespoons of the seeds, throw into the cold water, no boiling, cover the pot, simmer on low for 20 to 30 minutes. Then I know when it's done when it's the caramel color. I believe this is the strength that is needed to bring down sugar readings.

I tried chewing the seeds after they had simmered. Did nothing.

Maybe it's the concentration?

I get the seeds online at handypantry.com. These are the ones I sprout.

You can also go to any local Indian or Arab Store and ask for Methi Seeds. These are the Fenugreek seeds but they are called Methi seeds. They come in little packages and they can range from $1.59 to $2.00.

Real cheap and these are the ones that one can make tea out of. No sprouting these seeds because they are NOT organic.

Hope this helps.

Hey, at least you got your B/S number down, right?

The lowest was 113 that did not change all night.

This morning I had 119... pretty close. Home monitors are not that good. So it is within the 10 pt tolerance I allow.

It is possible the fenugreek active agent dilutes out with the ginger ale. Maybe it needs to be concentrated for best absorption. I looked around and it is thought to be a form of leucine --an amino acid.

I am going to take it later in the day, say before bedtime now. See if that is better. I liked it in late afternoon, as it helped with my digestion then. The tea seems to have other effects for me too, besides the glucose moderation. It is helping my gall bladder issues nicely.

iherb has a methi seeds on it. Not expensive at all. Both types.

Mrs. D.

I'm glad you are getting good results.
I had to laugh when I was reading the whole thing about Fenugreek and amino acids. Naturally most of it went over my head BUT....as I got down to the last few words and it said:

"potential interest for the treatment of NIDDM"

I said out loud. I think I know what NIDDM means.

Non Insulin Dependant Diabetes Mellitus

Did I get it right?

lol

Yes, the NIDDM is the old term --and is mostly used medically within the doctor circle. That article is older, and used it.

People just say type II now since many type II's use insulin. It is not really accurate to call type II NIDDM..anymore.
(non insulin dependent diabetes mellitus).

Hi.

You'll get a kick out of what just happened. I was on a diabetic message boards and they ALL WENT OUT AND GOT METHI SEEDS. Of course I told them to research and about the thyroid, but they'll see what happens.

lol

melody

Hi All!!!

Since I was making a brand new batch of Fenugreek tea, I thought I would share it with you all

Here is the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gwt7_cNp6SQ

I took my tea after dinner yesterday. It was a dismal failure.

134 with no carbs in that meal. Before I was taking it in the afternoon on an empty stomach. I'm going back to that routine.
(I also didn't sleep very well this way).

Thanks for the video... that is alot of seeds. How much water?
2 cups maybe? My little tea bag in 6oz of water doesn't compare. My tea gets milky yellow. And the mucilage really dissolves as the steep time increases. Your seeds don't look sticky at all. Is that because all the coating is dissolved off?

I am going to have to get the whole seeds I see.

I know I am getting something out of the tea bags, as I am beginning to smell like Fenugreek! ;)

Hi. I use 4 cups of water and two tablespoons of seeds. Doesn't matter if they are organic or bought in the store kind of seeds. You just can' sprout the bought in the store kind of seeds.

Some people I have spoken to have tried Fenugreek tablets and some have tried teabags.

The reason I don't do any of those is because one never knows what is in a tablet, and one never knows what is in that teabag.

With seeds, ONE KNOWS.

So try and get some seeds, add two tablespoons to 4 cups of water, do what I did, and you might get better results.

I took a few sips last night and this morning my sugar was 110, and I'll take 110 over 250 ANY TIME.!!!

lol

I read where one should never be over 140 on a regular basis because that's when damage can occur.

I find this whole diabetes thing VERY interesting.

It's just too bad I didn't have my brains in my head 20 years ago.

I really think that as we get older, we do get more informed (that is if one WANTS to be informed). And I really do.

Thanks much,

I found one store about 10 miles from me. Has a pound of whole seeds for $7.00. I called two Asian stores and they don't have them. I found the seeds at a health food store. The tea bags were also hard to find, locally.

If this works, I'll buy online later. I'll be picking them up today.

How much do you drink? What is "a few sips"? 2 ounces, 4 ounces? How long does the tea last you in the frig?

I take 3 or 4 sips. So maybe that's 1/4 of a cup of the tea. I've never drank more than that at any one time.

In the fridge, maybe it lasts 3 days. Never more because I don't make that much.

As the water simmers down, it maybe makes 2 cups of tea. So a few sips every day, well, if there is any left over I would throw it out.

But actually, because I don't make that much, I usually don't have any left over.

I guess I could down it as a shot in one gulp, but I'm so used to taking small sips, that's how I do it.

Don't know why.

I bet you could freeze it in ice cube trays and every day (or more if needed), take out two ice cubes, put in shot glass or small cut and you'd have your tea for that day??

Never thought of that, but that would work.

lol