Dextromethorphan and MS:
 

I think I recall posting this before?

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread153404.html

DM also helps with chronic pain management if used properly.

*tkrik getting ready to go get some cough syrup* :p

That's awesome mrsD! Who would have thought that a little cough syrup can be a neuroprotective agent. Thanks for posting this.

Alternative for LDN
 

I've been using low dose dextrometorphan as an alternative to LDN for Parkinson's disease for more than six years of the ten years I have been diagnosed, with what I feel is good success.

I buy over-the-counter pediatric preparations (PediaCare, Triaminic, etc) that contain 7.5 mg of dextromethorphan hydrobromide per 5 ml (1 tsp). It is important that the cough syrup NOT contain any other active ingredient such as guafinesin, polystyril, antihistamines. I take 1/2 tsp every night at bedtime, which should contain 3.75 mg of the drug.

Dextromethorphan (DM) and naltrexone are both morphinans which have been shown to be powerful anti-inflammatory drugs, demonstrated by the research by Dr. J.S. Hong to be especially effective in neural tissues of the CNS. Because of the long history of safety of DM, I feel very comfortable in using this inexpensive, non-prescription drug as a neuroprotective agent.

Robert Smith

Robert - Thank you for your post. I was kind of wondering about all that and your posted answered it. I will try the kinds that you recommended. It does seem like an inexpensive and safe treatment option. I am glad to hear it is working for you for your Parkinson's.

You mention not to get ones with other active ingredients and I was just wondering why that is? The reason I ask is that I have seasonal allergies and it would be great to get a 2 for 1, so to speak, medicine - a neuroprotective and an antihistamine. Do the other ingredients reduce the neuroprotective effect?

tkrik - Because the amount of DM appropriate for the low-dose effect is so small, I doubt that you would get enough antihistamine to be effective. The usual dose of the dilute pediatric preparations for cough is a couple of teaspoons at 6-8 hr intervals; way more than used in the low-dose approach.
Some of the additives, especially polystyril, result in a slow release of the DM, which defeats the quick "peak" of the med required for the desired effect. I learned this directly from Dr. Hong who has done much of the research on suppression of CNS inflammation with morphinans like DM and naltrexone at very low doses.

I'm on LDN and loving it. I wonder what the effect would be, if I took both? Double your pleasure-double your fun or maybe one canceling out the other?

keep it low
 

the idea of low-dose to make positive effect is to keep it "low dose". No sense adding another med that could send signals/effect completely awry. Anyone else?

my neuro just put me on Nuedexta (beyond pricey!!). Ironically it is comprised of 20mg Dextromethorphan HBr and 10mg Quinidine sulfate.

I had very good response while on the 2week sample bottle of capsules. Went to fill at pharmacy and learned you must be a millionare to afford it... Apparently there is some rule preventing the compounding of ingredients in order to make it less costly???

Have you tried this, Sally? I'm wondering if I could switch to the cough medicine instead of the LDN for a while without major impact. I guess the LDN is working. I mean, I still have lots of sx but I seem to remain steady and only get pseudo-flares when the weather changes or I'm sick. The only way to know if LDN is truly working is to stop taking it and I'm scared to do that! :o

Well isn't that just par for the course for Big Pharma..:mad:..the turds..:rolleyes:

There is nothing keeping anyone from using low dose DM OTC.

The quinidine is the RX part, and works by blocking the metabolism of the DM. If you wanted you could just take the DM in low dose more often. Quinidine is not an innocuous drug. And this Nuedexta is a radical new concept of including a low dose, possibly problematic drug which affects the metabolism of the second drug to keep the blood levels in a range to work.

The whole thing IMO is iffy, and potentially dangerous. This is MY opinion, but using DM alone is still an option. You just take it a bit more often is all.
http://the-scientist.com/2011/07/11/...rup-treats-ms/

This is the original paper abstract:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21704706
.1mg per kilogram in animals... a kilogram is 2.2lb. Which works out to 7mg/150lb person if this study generalizes to humans. This is really a small amount, of DM.

Nuedexta was designed for people with pseudobulbar affect...which is inappropriate emotional lability.

Some of the anti-inflammatory studies on PD and MS are not yet approved for humans using low dose DM.

Thanks MrsD!

That is why I was put on Neudexta (PBA/pseudo bulbar affect). Talk about another "surprise" to go with polka dotted brain... While it did not eliminate the episodes of PBA 100% it did make the frequency much less and those that did pop up easier to hide or make a joke of. PBA stinks - especially as I do a alot pf public speaking and teaching.

Question: I took 1 capsult of Neudexta (20mg Dextromethorphan HBr and 10mg Quinidine) every 12 hours, how much dex. would I take every 12 hours? I just seem to have lost my ability to do simple math sense my last flare. {or I am just getting stupid in my 40s:rolleyes:}

thanks all

Thank you & I'd like to get some tomorrow. Brands mentioned have many variations. Can someone state exact brand & variation that contains only what we're after?

How do you come up with 3.75mg of the dextromethorphan hydrobromide? I read the article and did not see the amount?
Are these effects the same as using LDN?

And why would you use the dextromethorphan/hydrobromide INSTEAD of the LDN?

Probably because you can get the dextromethorphan over the counter as a cold syrup. For LDN, you need a prescription.

Still awaiting everyone's favorite so I don't waste time trying to read labels in store. Thanks.

Bought grocery store brand today. I bought adult version for strength per mL which contains dextromethorphan only. 3mg per mL vs 1.5mg mL of kiddie formula.
"The quinidine is the RX part"...I saw it mrsD on store shelf, no rx required. I bought the one without it based on Roberts post.
I can use syringe to drop an exact dose every night in my mouth. Couldn't sleep on LDN so i'll try this. Try 2.5mL for 7.5mg? I'm about 155lbs & in shape.

Let us know how it works for you..:)

What's it supposed to do anyway?

I don't know what you saw, but quinidine is NOT on any store shelf. It is a very strong heart drug, in fact not much used any more. It is in the Nuedexta because it impairs the metabolism of DM and keeps it in the blood stream a long time.
Nuedexta contains both DM and quinidine (which is supposed to be low dose).

Robert's experience is for PD. He thinks other ingredients like antihistamines combined with DM change its action.
I have found that DM helps my PN pain in my feet. It is not a huge effect but does help. I use a product to help clear my sinuses called Mucus relief DM... 1/2 tablet at bedtime.
I get it OTC at WalMart, at a reasonable price. It also has guaifenesin in it to help dissolve thick mucus.

mrsD maybe it was guaifenesin I saw not the other. Honestly, I copy paste both g words because they're not in my brains dictionary :) My bad.
I used a 3mL syringe to squirt exactly 2.5mL/7.5mg before sleep last night. Cured? hah no but it tasted good. I'll try it for a week.

Like LDN, LDDM is not a cure....
 

Don't expect to see any significant change after only a week or two of use.
I do not expect, nor have I experienced a cure of my PD from dextromethorphan. I do know that, having taken it faithfully for the past 6-7 years, I am not aware of anyone else who has been diagnosed with PD for 11+ years who has progressed as slowly as I have. Therefore, I'm convinced that the low-dose approach with the drug is providing me some neuroprotection.

Hi there. I've been reading all these older post for some time now. Finally joined today. My story isn't MS, PD, Alzheimer's or any of the typical PBA nuedexta treatments, but is brain injury none the less. My son has it and this DM stuff is fasinating to say the least. Started with a post on another site about PBA and when I read it was helping with swallowing and talking in ALS patients I was on the hunt for info. Well we finally tried DM OTC for 6 days. Just a childs dose once a day(he`s 31 years old). Then he looked peaked like any new drug does so I stopped. Nice thing is I`ve seen some weird recovery happening that after 6 years is just awesome and seen it from day 1. Haveing a hard time finding info on brain injury let alone anoxic brain injury so I`ve put out a request on several sites for helpful info. 2 brain injury sites and an alzheimers site so far. One other caregiver is trying it right now that I chat with everyday with some good reports so far. We happened to go to his physiatrist a couple weeks after stopping it and I was telling her what I was seeing and I think she new I was. My thought was that new drugs happen to lower his BP so she did write a script for a med to help him ease into taking it again. I told her I was not going to just yet. I`m still in awe at what he has gained. Just still looking for more info I guess before we get started again now as its been over a month and still he is better. But how much better could he get? Hard to get hopes up you know. Thanks for all the good reads so far and I`m gonna check out this site further. Have a great day everyone and I`ll be hanging around searching for more info. Ruth

Welcome Mom..:hug:

Welcome Ruth!

Did you start your son back on the dextromethorphan? I think it's interesting that he started improving after taking it and only took it for 6 days. Keep us posted on how he is doing.:hug:

Thanks, Not yet but so tempted. Its been a full month now since he had a dose, wow where does the time go. Hes still doing good things but it seems he might be starting to slow down a bit again with not as much energy I guess you`d say. Hard to tell as he`s pretty non verbal. Talks real good in his sleep though. LOL I`ll let you know when I start and what dose I decide on. I`m thinking about even a lower dose or even a once a week dose to see how much he really needs to see improvement and maybe sidestep the low BP problem so I don`t have to add that other pill. I`m still just in awe at times with some of the things he can do that he had such a hard time with or couldn`t do pre-cough syrup. Who would`a guested? We did however use the one that is extended release and his doc said that was fine when I asked her. Still seems to have done something in the great dept. :)

I know that guaifenesin is used for fibro with some good results although some doctors refute this. Well some doctors refute fibro. I don't know what it does to the fibro whether it is the pain or something else

Learn something new everyday, thanks, I`ll keep that in mind. :)Ruth

Well I just read this and it plays into the why hes still doing well weeks after using DM. This is for treatment resistant depression and is using ketamine but from what I understand they work alike. I have no idea if the lad is depressed or not but I do know that I`ve seen some major motor movement improvements and I like it. Just thought I`d share as the time line of effectiveness is interesting. More towards my once a week a doseing I was concidering trying. Might need a few days of childs dose first to get back to that saturation point. I`m gonna keep reading and pondering. Ruth

Evidence for Safety in Antidepressant Use:


RESULTS: Ketamine elicited minimal positive psychotic symptoms. Three patients experienced significant but transient dissociative symptoms. Side effects during and after each ketamine infusion were generally mild. The response criterion was met by nine patients after the first infusion as well as after the sixth infusion. The mean (SD) reduction in MADRS scores after the sixth infusion was 85% (12%). Postketamine, eight of nine patients relapsed, on average, 19 days after the sixth infusion (range 6 days-45 days). One patient remained antidepressant-free with minimal depressive symptoms for >3 months.

CONCLUSIONS: These pilot findings suggest feasibility of repeated-dose IV ketamine for the acute treatment of TRD.

Ruth I don't know if you have fibro or not but when my sister first got it I did a lot of reading about the treatment. I believe there is a fibro forum here on Neurotalk and that's where I learned about it.

Thanks, I`ll look around in there too. My yesterday moment was that CBD is an NMDA antagonist also. I should have known as they both are treating the same conditions. Ruth

So, if one wants to try experimenting with taking dextromethorphan, and see if it makes any difference in the MS, how do you know how much to take? (I have a bottle of Delsym, which is dextromethorphan polistirex.

Is this the right kind? How much would I put in the little cup that comes with it? (it's labeled in mL)

Well we used 5 ml, a child's dose, he is however a grown man. He was only on one other med so made the homework easier, please check against any other meds and should really chat with doc first. When I did talk to his doc she said polistirex stuff was fine. Hope it goes well for you. Ruth

Erin - Robert's post says that he takes 1/2 tsp every night.

how many mL is that?

2.5ml or very close. I did read a study yesterday that for MS is even smaller than that dose. I decided to give Jim the half teaspoon this morn. Gonna see if a once a week dose of this will produce better function. Ruth

I took about 2.5mL of Delsym last night before going to bed.

Woke up this morning, felt sick, made it into the bathroom where I felt like throwing up for awhile. Never did throw up, but I felt hot, cold, very shaky, and nearly fainted. No idea if it's related to taking the Delsym.

That's not the first time I've woken up feeling like that, and nearly fainting. I don't like it when that happens.

Sorry to hear that, hope you are feeling better...

Update: Jimmies getting slower and stuck more often again and I`m missing its effects so I broke down and gave a 1/2 teaspoon dose yesterday of the DM. Like half of last time dose. That bit I read about it being a stimulant I think might be spot-on as thats what seems to be missing. Like ADD and the stimulant effect is what might have really made Jim be able to get unstuck, could all be more in the thinking-process and not so much muscle related at all.

So just playing to figure out how much and how often to possibly get that back. Was gonna do a once a week dose but since nothing happened on this one dose I`m gonna do the six days again with this lower half teas and see what happens. If it shows its working again like before I`ll go on to start a once a week dose thereafter. If not I`ll have to go back to the childs dose. Gonna try it without the new BP script too just so I know if we need to really use that or not with a lower dose. Fingers crossed on this day 2 of the second trial...

I have read that dextromethorphan can feel like a bit of a stimulant at the low
doses and a depressant at the large doses. Druggies, usually teens, use it as
a "space out" drug at the med to high doses.:eek: