Bad/sad news: DH's homecoming postponed
 

Well, as quickly as the news came that we thought DH was doing well enough to try coming home, things went sour. I don't know what happened, maybe even the thought of coming home scared DH, but yesterday was a very bad day for him. He was confused, hearing voices, crying, etc, all before I got there to see him at 12:30. Then we were told the county hospital had a bed for him, and were hopefully moving him last evening. Well, that fell through, at least for this week :(. We now have our sights set on next week.

So this morning, Tom called me and was hesitant to say something, just hemmed and hawed for a few minutes. Then I asked him if he was hearing voices again, and he said yes. I asked him what the voices were saying, and he said they were telling him to hurt himself. I told him to tell the nurses, which he did. I wanted to check, so I called the nurse's station and asked if he had spoken to them about the voices, and they said, yes, he had, and they are keeping him in the lounge, so they can make sue he is all right. The whole thing has me worried, very worried. then, about an hour ago, DH called me again, and I could tell by his voice that he was feeling better. He told me that he felt much better. I don't know what changed, nor does he, really, but I was SO relieved to get that second call from him!

That's the latest. What an up and down week this has been...:( :confused: :(

B12
 

Dear Jacquie,

Ask the pdoc to do a blood test for B 12. Also check for Vit D and other hormones:

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/...hort/157/4/660


Mari

It might be a small set back. But much better to happen when he is
there. And not at home.

Or moved and they don't know him.

Glad you are with help.

Donna:grouphug:

Do you think he has some fear of leaving? Even though he is not happy there, it is what he is use to, or not use to, but wants to stay there as an alternative to really coming home yet. He may really want to leave but is scared. Does not like the restriction, but that it is better then being without it in his heart.

Even though it is a different home, it is the one he suffered the post tramatic reaction in. He will be ready, and he will say "lets go home."

I am keeping you all in my prayers every day Jacquie :hug:

Ask the pdoc if you husband can go to an out patient day program. Those programs help people transition from the hospital life to home life.

M

this is an excellent suggestion....
bizi

Jacques


Hugs.

Donna:grouphug:

or maybe just come home for a trial weekend????or even just a day pass.
bizi

Thanks, you guys!
 

You really gave me some good suggestions! Yoy know, I was thinking about asking if he could be allowed to leave the facility for a brief trip out. I had even thought about taking him out yesterday for awhile because my sister and husband were visiting. Then he had his 'meltdown' day on Friday, and was still hearing voices yesterday morning urging him to hurt himself. Thank goodness those episodes lasted only for a brief period, and then he sort of 'snapped out of it'. He actually called yesterday while my sister and her DH were here, and I put him on speakerphone so he could say hello to everyone. I could tel the minute I heard his voice that he was doing much better, and his conversations reflected his much improved mood! It rained cats and doge yesterday, all day, practically, and there were flood warnings all over the state, and it was still pouring this morning. DH had said that I didn't need to go yesterday due to the horrible weather, so, instead, he was able to call me several times.

I do have an important question, though. I believe I told you that about ten days ago, the social worker told me that if we changed his status to 'involuntary' from voluntary, he would get a bed faster at the new facility they are trying to get him into...Well, I received a letter from the County Government, alerting me to a 'COMMITMENT HEARING' this Friday, or maybe Thursday (if he is transferred). What are those hearings like? He wouldn't be in attendance, would he? Any light you can shed on this process would be greatly appreciated!

Well, I've got to go and ready to go visit hubby again; I'll let you know how things are going. Cross your fingers, say a prayer, whatever your 'thing' is -- would be greatly appreciated. :heartthrob:

Here is a 56 page pdf about the procedure for New J.

http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/civ...urceBinder.pdf

My very best advice is that you do not commit him.

M.

I personally know nothing about the question.

So I can't tell you.


Sending you hugs and good thoughts.

Donna:grouphug:

Hi,

He needs to be at any hearing. Under the law, he has a right to be at and to testify at his own hearing.
This is a hearing that is going to take away his personal freedom.

M

If my husband arranged to have me committed, I would not trust him ever again. The committment shows him that you can't trust him, that he has the rights of a child, . .
I'd move out and never talk to my husband again.

could he be schizophrenic ?
What anti psychotic is he taking? I did not think that psychosis came and went that quickly.
I am so sorry that this is all happening. I agree with mari said.
bizi

:eek: OMG, GUYS!! :eek: The idea of commitment was only suggested by the social worker to speed up his transfer to the other hospital! I was a bit taken aback when she proposed that to me, even though she explained her theory behind it. Also, I believe that my husband was fine with this because he knows why it is being done. Now you have me super-worried, and questioning the whole thing! He has been waiting to get into this other facility for more than three weeks.The problem is, the only way any new meds will be tried is if he goes to this hospital...What else COULD/SHOULD I do instead?? The social worker made it seem like it was no big deal, even when I expressed my concerns.

So, if you all think this a bad idea, what ideas do you have? He's just spinning his wheels, and wasting away ther summer in this place!

PLEASE, please, tell me what you think would be a better idea:? I am open to any and all ideas!

Sorry for freaking out, but your comments have me extremely worried and scared! :(:(:(

Jacques

First, I don't think anyone knew that your husband knew about this deal.
I also am not sure your social worker had a clue what she was suggesting.

I also think, that there is a chance that the judge can make it a voluntary
commentent. So that he can go.

Not sure though, I would work on find a advocate for the mentally ill.

Call the local Nami group, I don't have there information.

But there should be one close to you. So If your in New Jersey. Is it.


Call or email the state office, and ask for help. Tonight email.

Tomorrow start calling, they can help you.

Donna:grouphug:

Hi,

It's ok to wait for the facility to open a bed for him. Have you spoken to his regular pdoc and tdoc for suggestions?
You can post pone the commitment hearing. Don't let the social worker rush you. Commitment is a big deal. Do this carefully and with full awareness of the facts.


I moved this list of meds from the other thread:

Here are some thoughts about the meds even though I know you have to wait until he gets to the next place to talk to the new pdoc. Lots of pdocs have patients with bipolar taking no anti-depressants. He might be hearing the voices because of the Zoloft.
Why is he on Vistaril? It an antihistamine --- all it gives him is side effects or paradoxical reactions. He is on heavy meds already and might not need it.



M

REMEMBER: Laws vary by state.
 

There seem to be two discussions going on here:
1.) Jacquie permitting COMMITTMENT (of) husband. How he feels about it now or how he may feel later about it.
2.). State COMMITTMENT of husband. Drug treatment option.

These are 2 different things. And regardless of whether his admission is voluntary or involuntary, Once he's in, it's all the same: one or more psychiatrists are going to have to approve his release.

I'm not sure why bizi & Mari jumped from the commitment to this hospital in order to get him treatment you AND he think he needs to "OMG I'D HATE MY HUSBAND FOREVER IF HE COMMITTED ME!"

Two different things gals! Take a deep breath, relax...

Jacquie, you've been through ALL of this before. This is nothing new. Don't get the process mixed up with the result. You ARE NOT tricking him into something you haven't planed thru with him, are you?

ONLY #2 above is significant here. There's not infidelity, trickery, or deviousness here. He will have (I don't think) any harder time getting out.

BUT if you havent gotten the statutes in writing, nows a good time. It was all sensibly worked out, wasn't it?

I think the visteril is for agitation but am not sure. where is there something for anxiety? Is the risperdal normally three times a day?
bizi

I think its more the way people are looking at it.

Jacques just stop and take some deep breaths.
And think this through.

Donna:grouphug:

Dear Car Gal,
I appreciate your sense and calm. I'm not calm and I only have a little sense ;)

The results are the same as you say. She might have a hard time getting him out.

Bizi is more level headed than I am. That was me.

They are the same.

I know that Jacquie is not tricking her husband. She is sincerely trying to do the best for him. She seems a little naive and uninformed.

My point was that Jacique might want to listen to someone --- like his real pdoc -- more than the social worker and that there is no rush to have him committed. She is worried about his spending his summer in the hospital. At least he is safe there and she has access to him.
I still think she needs to talk to a lawyer about the ramifications.

We have few rights in this country as it is. I would not want a spouse or anyone else to take away my legal rights simply because this is the fastest way to get care. There is not big hurry. The move to the hospital can wait until exactly the time it should be so.

If anybody cooperated with a pdoc to have me in the hospital involuntary -- even if I was not aware at the time ---- when I got out I would leave forever. I stand by that.
The treatment would be a mess because I would have to start all over with a pdoc somewhere else. The commitment would be for naught.

M.

arrier Clinic 252 County Road 601
 

Dear Jacquie,

Are you near Carrier Clinic in Belle Mead N.J?
45 East Mountain Road
Belle Mead, NJ 08502-3911
(800) 933-3579

The best and most wonderful pdoc in the world runs the clinic. He's a genius and he takes very good care of his patients -- like they are his own family.

M.

:oBut Mari, you are fully a partner with your doctors. There are no people off in another room discussing what's best for you. You are not hearing voices, you are not under suicide watch. I know you are having a very hard time now & maybe you are hearing voices of you muttering to yourself, & you may be having some desperate thoughts in light of all the sleep deprivation you've suffered.

Still, you are steering your own course, making your own choices. Jacquie's husband isn't, hasn't, & can't be expected to any time in the near future. He has been through horrible experiences & loses since the first of the year. So has Jacquie. I don't want to make things any harder for her by adding concerns that I don't think, in context, carry the same weight--considering that her husband is really unable to do anything for himself now.

Do you want to have her feel guilty for trying to speed his care?

Okay. I'm putting myself in her place, & I'd be a total mess by now in her place. Besides, you & the others here know her so much better than I. It's just that I want to support her. I guess Im wrong about how to do that. Won't be a first time.

:circlelove: Sorry, Jacquie. I don't know. I thought I saw a simple, straight path through this, but Mari is no dummie. I've come to respect her a lot. I'm not sleeping either & have other stuff on my plate so I'm not so sure as I was.

Prayers I can do. That's because I just ask god to figure it out & fix it. Finally gave up sending orders. :rolleyes:>CG

p.s. I'm so sorry, Mari. I didn't want to upset anyone. Clearly, I wasn't hearing what I said or I would have known I would. Sending me to bed now....

HI,
It's up to Jacquie.
I am suggesting that she talk to professionals higher up than social workers.

She does need support. I am coming across perhaps too strong. I deeply about the rights of the mentally ill -- even if --and especially if -- these rights are inconvenient for family members. People fought hard to get the 1960s and 1970s civil rights laws passed for mentally ill. They are good laws in places for a reason.

It's good to help Jacquie. We can have several opinions here. :heartthrob:

Yes. Acceptance works. :circlelove:

I promise to take it easy from here on out.

M.

:(Absolutely NOT! I think everyone will agree that we'll all be better off if you'll just promise to be you.:hug:

You were fighting for the rights of the mentally ill in danger of losing their rights... the way of lost rights leads to "The Snake Pit." I've been that vulnerable person, Mari. I had a caring lawyer & friends who made sure I didn't disappear (& wasn't mistreated), but not everyone's that lucky & I might not always be.

So you just be you. No need to make allowances for that. All things being equal, I'd rather have you fighting for me than me anyway... :rolleyes:>C.G.

Geez, guys, my head is really spinning now!!
 

I'm not exactly sure where to begin to address all of you! I can start with the easy one first --
bizi - the Vistaril is for anxiety, but I'm not even sure that he is still taking it - was only PRN anyway.

To make easy work of the rest of the comments, I will tell you of the conversation that I had with the social worker this morning. This will actually put an end to much of the discussion anyway...

1) Altho the hearing is coming up on Friday, the soc. wkr basically made it clear that he is ALREADY considered in there INVOLUNTARILY. Whether it's true or not, she made it seem like the hearing was basically a formality. Also, neither he nor I actually have to be present for the hearing. I pointedly asked if DH was aware of his involuntary status, and she said he was. I will ask him in person about this when I see him today.

2) Now I know why they were rushing to try to get DH moved last Friday -- She told me, only this morning, that a patient can't be transferred within five days before a hearing, which means he is stuck in this place ALL WEEK. That means the soonest he can be transferred to this other hospital is Friday afternoon :(.

I also found out the facility is further away than I thought, and, in addition, they have very restrictive visiting hours - 6:10-7:10 every evening. That basically stinks :rolleyes:.

My son is off today, and he called the pdoc at the place he's in now, to get some answers straight from him, and also to make sure he was informed about dh's episodes of hearing voices, and to get his take on things. As far as his pdoc on the outside, apparently they don't consult with outside doctors very much, which makes no sense to me. I had called him about a week ago, and plan to call him again today. It's as if they don't want any input from anyone else, they just want to 'do their own thing'. I could be wrong, but that's my impression. Maybe I will find out different from the pdoc, assuming he actually calls me or my son back.

I appreciate all of your input and concern, and I certainly don't want to start a civil war here :grouphug:.

I will let you know what develops....

Dear Jacquie,
A formality is by definition real/ definitive/clear. At the hearing, the government will strip him of his rights.

Being considered involuntary and being declared involuntary by the state are two entirely different things.

Of course you have to make the best decision you can for yourself and your family based on what information you have now. I am trying to say that the social worker is wrong. You need more information because she is making light of something by calling it "just a formality."

You and he do not have to be present for the hearing, but he should be at the hearing. The hearing is about him. Why would you advise him not to go to his own hearing?

I don't know what the rush is to get him moved. Wherever he is, he is going to need a long recovery time after he gets home. Take your time finding out more about the hearing. It is good that your son will talk to the pdoc. Has your husband signed HiPAA forms to allow the pdocs to talk about him?

M

Mari, I understand where you are coming from with the social worker's making light of the formal hearing. I just went to the link provided me about the NJ Commitment Process. Then I called my husband to ask him about the hearin, etc. He said he did NOT know that he was being switched to an involuntary commitment. He didn't seem to voice too much of a protest, but he say he wanted to be 'voluntary', so I'm not sure how upset he actually is. He was planning to go find the social worker after we got off the phone. Now it could be he was told, and he wasn't doing well at the time and her forgot?? I have no idea now what is really going on.

Yes, t's good that my son is going to talk to the pdoc, but he actually call him back? It's 3:00 pm now, so we will see...

I've got things to do, and I'm not getting anywhere going over and over this here.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Verify, verify, verify.
 

Jacquie, here's a resource that's objective, accessible from home & (if you call them twice) ought to give you an answer you can go to court on. It's probably easier to read on the website:

http://slic.njstatelib.org/ask_a_librarian

By Email
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Not sure but it sounds like the facility is wanting to get rid of him
for some reason.

I would be finding a new pdoc.

I would be getting all the answers you can. I am not sure I would
want him moved, without the court knowing what they are doing.

Donna:grouphug:

Actually, we have been PRAYING for this move for weeks now. He has been at this facility since mid-June, and they haven't wanted to do anymore tweeking of his meds for at least the past month, and I'm not sure the meds he is on are doing enough to bring him out of this fog, or whatever you want to call it. Believe me, it's been a very long road to this point. He spent from January 18th to March 24th in a hospital for his burns, came home (well actually we had to stay in a Holiday Inn until we had closing on our new home). We moved in here on April 17th, and he did quite well until he asked for help in mid June...which brings us to where we are now...

We'll take things as they come, and perhaps it won't be necessary to formally change his status from voluntary to involuntary. The main reason that was to be done was so he could gain faster access to this new hospital where, hopefully, we will be able to speak with his new pdoc. He will already be in this hospital before the hearing, though, so I'm not sure where this leaves the situation. His pdoc on the 'outside' hasn''t seen him since the last day before he was hospitalized. He is up on all the latest medications and I wish he could treat him while he is hospitalized, but I've been told that the facility pdoc must be the treating doctor. Doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me. :confused:

Dear Jacquie

At least two long posts of mine to you got "zapped" by timeouts due to my inattention... multitasking... packing before i left for vacation (i don't like to use the "remember me" option)...

so i don't even know if you heard a peep out of me, not even the initial WELCOME BACK made it i fear...

i am so sorry for your losses and all that has since evolved... :(

now trying to catch up with this thread/situation now... was too agitated to sleep... now sleepy again... so gonna head off...

but not before a QUICK post to say hi, send ((((((HUGS)))))) and prayers and positive energies for you and your hubby...

:circlelove:

~ waves ~

{{{{{waves}}}}}

So sorry about your 'lost' posts. That happened to me the other day, too, gr-r-r-r....

Try to relax and get some rest, and thank you for the welcome back!

since you both mentioned it
 

:Off-Topic:

I lose an amazing amount of posts here too. Any idea why?

losing posts and ways to avoid it
 

Sure!

when you log in, you are assigned a "session" so that Neurotalk recognizes youu as YOU and allows all the privileges that come with being a registered user - posting, searching, PMs, viewing personal pages, etc...

Now this "session" doesn't last forever.... if you don't perform any requests (i.e. browse around or post) it will "expire" after a certain amount of time - i don't know what the exact number in minutes is... could be about 30 mins. anyway, at that point, you are no longer seen as "logged in" and if you were in the middle of writing a post, when you hit submit, you will get a message saying no can do, please log in. :eek:

this is because, while you are typing in the post editor, you are not actually "active" in the sense that you are not requesting pages from the web server.

--- workarounds available ---

1. use the "remember me" option. the next time you log in, check the box that says "remember me" - you need do this only once... thereafter, Neurotalk logs you in automatically when you access a forum page from the same machine. You can start a post today and hit submit tomorrow and it will accept it. you will not be actually logged in that entire time, it's just that the forum logs you in as needed basically.

2. prepare the post elsewhere, then log in, hit reply, paste it all in, add smilies if need be and hit submit. this way you do not hit the inactivity limit if you spend a lot of time composing the post.

3. keep the session active while you are typing the post. login and compose post in the editor. you have full access to smilies so you can put them in as you go (more natural than adding later). use the preview post button frequently, or keep a separate page open on the forum and refresh that. either of these resets your inactivity period to 0 so you don't get "logged out." As a safety net, always select and COPY the entire post (CTRL-C or CMD-C) before hitting submit. if you are forced to log in again, once you get yourself to the compose-post window for the thread you want and just PASTE. you will have to manually retype the post title and reselect the post icon, and then submit.

call me crazy but 3. is the one i use. i'm really used to it so i don't run into problems generally.

#1 - remember me is hands down the easiest, most transparent one to use... BUT it won't work if you log in from different computers or even alternate between using one of a few.

hope that helps. (hope this posts.... but i'm going to do a copy.... ;):D)

~ waves ~

In my case.

I type a whole thing. And forget to type send'

And then go somewhere else and think I have.

And come back and delete the post by mistake.


Donna:grouphug:

i just stay logged in.....:)

Dankemercithanksetc!
 

:p
You are amazing.

I did learn from sad experience very quickly that I'd best check that "Remember Me" box before even doing the log-in or all would be for nought.

I guess, over the weeks, I have sorta stumbled into the #3 method but without focus. Now that you have so clearly explained to me what I was bumblingly & unconsciously developing into a process, I'm betting I can get a whole lot better at it.

Yeah. I was doing a lot of what you describe. Funny. If you had asked me what I did, I prob'ly woulda said, "Can't say those words here. Admin edit, donchano.:D"