More interesting info from Dr. Blaylock (lipoic acid information)
 

It seems he is talking more and more about PN--the last 3 months he's mentioned something about it in each newsletter. Maybe it's because the incidence of PN has increased greatly in statin users so he's receiving more inquiries.

He said tremors could be a symptom of PN, along with the other more common ones, pain, tingling, etc. I remember someone asking about tremors a while back and several responded that they, too, were experiencing them. Sometimes when I'm in a time bind, or feel pressure somehow, I notice my head bobbling, but I do seem to be able to control this to a degree.

Another interesting thing he discussed was R-lipoic acid helping diabetic neuropathy at 300 to 600 mg with each meal. And I remember someone else posting they had benefited from this larger dose. He drew a connection between diabetes and hypertension and said good diet could cure them, with emphasis on plant extracts such as curcumin, quercetin (Dr. Oz likes these too), cinnamon, resveratrol, luteolin and kaempferol (which I'd never heard of before).

He also recommended the same supplements for PN that MrsD suggests with the addition of carnosine, ascorbate, and natural Vitamin E.

I also read somewhere, I think his web site, where he's on the Board for Life Extension Foundation--I remember Wings used to pass on info from them quite a bit on the old board.

Joan

Thanks for bringing this information here, Joan.

I looked up Dr. Blaylock and lipoic acid and found this:
http://w3.newsmax.com/blaylock/15.cfm

Because his newsletter is a pay for each issue, it is not quoted on the net specifically.

But I wonder if he really said r-lipoic, or did he use the alpha lipoic term?

The 300-600mg is really the dose for alpha form, not r-form.
The r- is so much more potent, I am wondering if it is a misprint or even a mis-statement by him? Almost all the papers on lipoic acid, involve alpha form. And I know he does research the studies about things quite a bit.

Can you respond to that newsletter, since you are a subscriber?
If so, could you ask this question in a email to him?

Here is an interesting comparison of stabilized R--lipoic and non stabilized lipoic.... stabilized R-lipoic should be on the label of what you buy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9NaaKvRD3A

I wonder if that comparison is really between two R-lipoics even, since the color is so different.

This is the brand I use sometimes....
http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals...lets/1507?at=0
And I notice it has a yellowish cast to the tablet!
The label does not say, "stabilized" on it either.

Here is another brand:
http://www.iherb.com/Doctor-s-Best-B...aps/23168?at=0
It explains the difference with non-stabilized R-lipoic.
But notice the price is much higher...this bottle for 180caps.

And this one does not say if it is stabilized and is VERY expensive for 60
http://www.iherb.com/Thorne-Research...aps/18591?at=0

Here is what LEF says....
http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Suppleme...poic-Acid.html

So it seems that the stabilized is better... so far. I will continue looking around. I've used both Doctor's Best and Source Naturals. I wonder if this difference is why my blood sugar does not respond to R-lipoic? I think I've used the Source Naturals mostly recently, in fact.????????????????

I rechecked the newsletter, and he did say R-lipoic acid in a couple of places even. I can ask the question as he answers questions from readers on the last page every month.

The R-lipoic acid I have right now is from Country Life, and it's a capsule, sorta cream in color, 60 capsules, 100 mg and doesn't say "stabilized." I have switched around from brand to brand when ordering, and I'll try the "stabilized" form next time I order. Since it's higher priced, that probably explains my choice in getting the non-stabilized form! The Alpha Lipoic Acid used to upset my stomach; however, the R-lipoic does not, at least the un-stabilized; but maybe it's not doing anything for me either????

Joan

Well, I'm doing some experiments on my Source Naturals.

They come in a bottle with TWO moisture packets. My tablets lived here all summer, in 90+ weather sealed up, and were not damaged in any visible way.

The reason I think Dr. Blaylock is confused is that there are studies on ORAL Alpha lipoic (racemic) going up to 1800mg a day.

But r-lipoic is supposed to be so much stronger, 6-10 times is the claim, that I can't imagine taking 1800mg a day of it. It would be very expensive!

I took 1/2 tablet of mine, and crushed it and mixed with water-- tap water at room temp...and also heated water from the microwave.

The heated water created little globs of a plastic like material...which did stick to my spoon. I tried mixing in an oil, since lipoic is part lipophilic and part hydrophilic and not much difference.

I put 1/4 tablet uncrushed in water, and in 15 minutes is started to get gummy.

This is from the ralapure website:
http://www.ralapure.com/r-alpha-lipoic-acid-review.asp
Now, this may just be a "trick" to convince people to buy theirs, of course.

Wiki does not address the stabilized claims. Stabilized is a sodium salt, and hence water soluble. It is very possible the ALA racemic and non-stabilized are absorbed using bile salt emulsification.

The old racemic form of ALA has been used orally with success for over a decade in studies. I am suspecting the the ralapure version (stabilized) is easier to pour and thus feed hoppers in tablet/capsule machines, and easier to handle in general.

ALA has been called an antioxidant, and as such is by nature unstable. Vit C is unstable and discolors, along with many other antioxidants.

Somehow old ALA... before r-lipoic was made, seemed to work!
http://www.soc-bdr.org/content/e4/e8...showfulltext=1

This is from Linus Pauling institute:
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocente...la/#metabolism
I am really glad you bought this subject here today, Joan.;)

It appears that even though ALA is not soluble in water, it seems to make it to the blood stream where it can be measured.

I guess I will have to spring for Ralapure forms and then see if my morning glucoses are different! Doctor's Best is one brand that has that on the label. There are others too.

But the common theme, is to take on an empty stomach for best results. I guess I will be taking it in the morning from now on.

I just checked iHerb's reviews of R-lipoic acid, and one person commented that his doctor recommended it for PN, and that was the 300 mg stabilized form, and it was working. That's encouraging, to say the least. Most of the comments were from people happy with their lowered sugar readings and the higher doseage didn't seem to be a problem.

There is really a wide discrepancy in price between suppliers though.

Joan

Remember people are different. Our bodies make lipoic acid in the normal course of life.

So some people may make more than others, depending on lifestyle, drugs used, and genetics. Those with good levels may need less than those who have some error in this metabolism.

It can be a very variable thing. But I don't really think anyone needs 300mg-600mg R-lipoic 3 times a day with meals.... like the newsletter suggests. Everything I've read said to take on empty stomach.

I need to correct a statement I made previously about Country Life R-Lipoic Acid--it says "heat stabilized" alongwith a tiny red thermometer on the label, and I said it wasn't stabilized. The print is so small I had to use my magnifying glass to see it--it also says that it is heat stabilized when you click on it at i-Herb's website. At the time I ordered it, I guess I didn't know what to look for, so I apparently lucked out on this one. Joan

I am going to order these today. 2 of them. So I can take 200mg to start, for one month. (free shipping with 2)
http://www.amazon.com/Doctors-Best-S.../dp/B000I4C19G

The LEF product , I looked at closely at-- a review at Amazon gives 300mg /cap of the sodium form... leading to only 210mg of lipoic itself! The Doctor's Best says each cap has 143mg of sodium form to give 100mg/cap lipoic. So at about the same price at Amazon, the Doctor's Best was more "honest".

This trick of giving total milligrams of a supplement happens often with minerals like magnesium. Good labels will say "elemental" content, and poor labels will give final weight which only a portion may be the active thing you want.

If you go to Amazon, be careful of what you click upon... I found the exact product on another page for $44.00! That is a big difference from $14.68! Amazon itself is selling health items now, at very competitive prices, but they also sponsor independent sellers (like their used books) who do not discount prices at all! So be careful to get the lowest price.

This price of Doctor's Best RALA...is about the same as Swanson's, and is free shipping if you buy more than $25. YOu can pick anything at Amazon to make that $25 too as long as it is a "super saver" listed. Music, books, tools, you name it. We get alot of things this way. This summer I found a nice pair of utility shears (in fact these shears are the same some EMTs use for rescue efforts) for about $8.00 that I would have to have driven all over to find here! I bought those and added my Theanine and a book for hubby and had them all sent to our vacation location free! It was a time saver, money saver, and convenience! So do look around Amazon when thinking of getting some supplements. They carry Doctor's Best products it appears.

Thanks again Joan...this thread has turned out to be very good and a new learning experience!

Funny this should come up at this time. About two weeks ago, I increased my dose of R-Lipoic from 100 mg to 300 mg per day. I felt generally better and had a little more energy. Then, I went to 400 mg per day, which is where I am at now. I can't say that my PN is any better yet, but I like this dose so far.

Note: I am using Doctor's Best "Best Stabilized R-Lipoic Acid Featuring Bio-Enhanced Na-RALA."

I thought you are supposed to take R-Lipoic Acid on an empy stomach (and not with meals as stated here)?

Yes, everywhere it states, empty stomach. Take it with food and lose some absorption, and hence some will be wasted.

It is really confusing in the supplement world. B12 is commonly also given poor administration directions. Empty stomach is a must for B12 because of its passive absorption in the intestine.

The directions on my Country Life R-lipoic acid say to take it with food. It's no wonder we lay people are so confused!

Description
Antioxidants
Heat Stable R-Lipoic Acid
Dietary Supplement
Certified Gluten-Free
Kosher
Certified Vegan
GMP Certified

R-alpha Lipoic Acid is an antioxidant. R-Lipoic is an active isomer of Lipoic Acid.

Suggested Use

Adults take one (1) capsule daily with food or as directed by a health care professional. As a reminder, discuss the supplements and medications that you take with your health care providers.

Supplement Facts



Supplement Facts



Serving Size: 1 capsule





Amount Per Serving

% Daily Value



R-alpha Lipoic Acid (thioctic acid)

100 mg

*



*Daily Value not established.

Sorry, but I need clarification.


Is this correct: Take r-lipoic on an empty stomach?


Thanks!

Yes, empty stomach if you can tolerate it.

After all manufacturers are not pharmacologists, doctors or experts on anything really. If you take it wrong, maybe you will need MORE and BUY more from them!

Do the research. I posted on this thread a quote from Linus Pauling Institute, post #4 here... I bolded what a study showed on absorption with and without food.

Bottom line.... take R-lipoic on an empty stomach.

Thanks, mrsD. Sorry for not doing my research. I accepted the directions on the label without questioning them. I'll have to be more careful.

What I meant, is "do the research on everything" before you/one use it.... you/one cannot trust the labels on supplements IMO.

I didn't mean you specifically, nervous.

Mrs. D, I guess I am guilty of doing the same with the mfg. label. Since I take my oxycotin and synthroid about 6a.m., I have toast for breakfast about 8:30am. and wait a couple of hours afterwards before taking the Methyl B-12 and wait an hour or more before eating lunch. But....I have been taking my R-Lipoic Acid and my Benfotiamine (B-1) right after lunch. Would it be okay to take the R-Lipoic Acid after the Methyl B-12 is disolved? Or do I have to wait a few hours again before the R-Lipoic?
We are so fortunate to have someone like you to help us unmuddle so many issues. Thank you for your patience.

If you use the stablized R-lipoic.... most of that should dissolve on an empty stomach. It is a soluble sodium salt.

However, the binders in that capsule may interfere with B12. With alot of water, or tea, etc, those should disperse and not act like a sponge, like fiberous food would.

You could take the B12 first with lots of water, wait 1/2 hr and then take the lipoic acid. On an empty stomach, the B12 may move along quickly... average stomach emptying when only liquid is about 20 minutes.

You can take the B12 with your oxy and synthroid. In fact I think you can take the lipoic at this time too. With enough water...all would be dispersed pretty well. And all are relatively small in size.

If you take the lipoic with food, you risk losing some absorption of it. I don't think it matters with benfotiamine, as to food.

Well, I thought to update my ALA experience.

I ordered two bottles of Doctor's Best from Amazon...thinking I'd up my dose to 200mg a day.

This is not working out for me.... it is way too much! It is making me hyper and very uncomfortable, so I am going to back down to the 100 mg I typically use.

Do be careful with this... because I don't see this effect in the literature either. The R-lipoic Stablilized is much different from the Source Naturals I was using recently.

Several weeks ago, I upped my R-lipoic gradually. I am now at 400 mg and am doing well, although I may not stay at that level. Even though I am not having any adverse reaction, I may experiment with bringing it down.

I'll update my blood work here this week on this thread.

While I was not seeing dramatic effects on my fasting morning sugars, I did have a huge improvement in my A1C...

It has decreased from 6.4 to 5.7 which stunned my doctor, since I discontinued my metformin back in August. My morning sugars are lower without the metformin, but not below 100 yet.

So the R-lipoic stabilized IS working for me in the long run, it is just not affecting my dawn phenomenon. Now I have 1/3 of a Zone nutrition bar, if I wake up in the night and that seems to lower my dawn numbers that way. Zone bars have reasonable amounts of carbs + protein in them, and I've used them for years for snacks to moderate my blood sugars.

I do think the daily Kefir is also working somehow to stabilize my metabolism. Years of antibiotics I have used, just like others in this country, may be really upsetting our whole bodies?

I also use 150mg of Benfotiamine at bedtime, and 300mg of Theanine, and methyl B12 in the morning.
The R-lipoic and theanine are "new" since August. Kefir from September.

I have learned so much from this website. I'm trying to get my neuropathy in check. It has gotten worse within the past year. I take methyl B12, Benfotiamine, and Vit D. I don't have diabetes, and I'm wondering if the R-lipoic would do some good for me or would it only refer to diabetic neuropathy. :Thanx:

Can't hurt to try. Lipoic acid is complex and does many things.

Not only for diabetics!

Rosie, I am not diabetic and started Lipoic acid over the summer months, I didnt think it had any effect until I stopped taking it(I was waiting on a new shipment which was delayed) the pain in my feet went from a 2-3 to a 7-8 almost overnight. I was so glad when I took delivery of my new batch. It may not work for you but is cetainly worth a try.

Hi ger715,
I have been looking for someone who is taking Synthroid too. Since I read a lot of success stories in achieving some level of relief in the neuropathy taking r lipoic, I have long wanted to try it. However,my thyroid function is abnormal (I had total thyroidectomy in 2007) since Nov 2011. I take my thyroid test every 5 weeks.

Anyway, what I want to ask you is how does lipoic affect your thyroid function? My neurologist advised to wait using lipoic until my TSH normalizes because of the side effect of r lipoic on hypothyroidism. Sorry, I assume that you are hypo too.

Hope you can share your experience.

I'm hypothyroid too, and take .175 synthroid daily plus half a tablet on Sundays. The R-lipoic acid hasn't affected my thyroid numbers at all. I go in for a checkup and lab work every 6 months, last time in February, and all my numbers were still within the recommended ranges.

The R-lipoic doesn't affect me either. I take 75mcg levothyroxine daily.

I'll remind of this fact.... The only study showing an impact of racemic mixed alpha lipoic acid on animals, showed a potential for blocking conversion of T4 to T3 in tissues. It has not been replicated, and not done in humans. Remember alpha lipoic racemic is used in very high doses, also.

R-lipoic stabilized is not racemic and not used in high doses.
The fact remains that the racemic mixture is 50% inactive (as far as we know) and perhaps this part of it is the culprit. The conclusion is sketchy therefore.

Mrs. D,
For a starter like me, which brand would you recommend for R-Lipoic? I took note in your earlier responses to me, I can take R-Lipoic together with the Methyl B12 on an empty stomach. Do you recommend to take all Synthroid, R-Lipoic and B12 at the same time? Right now what I do is : 4AM - Synthroid, 5AM B12, 6AM Gabapentin (then breakfast).

Thank you.

I use Doctor's Best for the R-lipoic. I take the Synthroid (levothyroixine) first thing... 5am -6am... then the lipoic 7am, and B12 3 times a week. Then I have breakfast around 7:30 -8am. If I get up in the night and come down here to the computer I take the thyroid then, alone with water. Sometimes I go back to bed at 3 am or so. Sometimes I sleep thru to 5am or so. It varies by day.

Thank you Mrs. D. From the country I came from, I remember my endocrinologist told me that it is best to take the Synthroid at the same time everyday.

You sleep so late..... does having less sleep aggravates your neuropathic pain? I have problems with sleeping and i noticed that less sleep means more pain. At night, I increase my gabapentin, at least, it makes me sleepy.

Actually, I dont want to be increasing the dosage of gabapentin. In fact, the doctor has given me a new prescription of 600mg (1800mg/day) but I still stick to 400mg (1200mg/day or 1300mg/day, depending on the pain).

Thank you again.

I find insufficient sleep aggravates pain of all types - neuropathic and otherwise, but that's a pretty well documented "vicious cycle".
Search: "vicious cycle" pain insomnia

Doc

Absolutely worth a try - If it can't hurt to try it, it can't hurt to try it.
I'm not diabetic either, and the stuff worked wonders for me - stopped the burning within a couple days (but my results are not typical).

Doc

I go to bed early and get up early. Sometimes pain wakes me up and other times not. I tend to sleep more than 8 hrs overall.