Musing on calcium & magnesium
 

I'm reading another magnesium book ("Transdermal Magnesium Therapy") and in addition to pointing out that most people have a deficiency, it also points out that people have an overabundance of calcium due to various factors:

-- people consume a lot of calcium
-- some foods are fortified with it
-- some people supplement with it
-- the body holds onto calcium easily

Now then, I was reading this paper:

Neurogenic thoracic outlet syndrome: A case report and review of the literature
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2966747/

which says:

Emphasis is mine. The article didn't mention or emphasize calcium in any other way and did not mention magnesium at all. But the "calcium-dependent" thing really caught my attention.

Given that botox has some effectiveness, and that it's mechanism has to do with blocking calcium-dependent acetylcholine, plus all the stuff I mentioned above, I wonder:

Should we TOSers be severely cutting our calcium intake in addition to supplementing with magnesium? Particularly those of us with obvious muscle spasms?

It's a hypothesis. I don't have the resources or right career to turn it into a study. But TOS is hard to treat and we're left looking for whatever we can find that may help.

Btw I'm not implying that "too much Ca & not enough Mg" is the cause of TOS or that correcting such an imbalance will cure it. But muscle spasms are part of the TOS picture for many of us, and I'm proposing that in those cases, it could be a contributing factor and therefore correcting it could be helpful on the road to recovery.

Thoughts?

Good theory Chroma.:cool:
I've funnily enough just got in some Magnesium and starting to supplement with it as from TODAY ( 1st time)........hope it makes a difference with the muscle spasms.:winky:

calcium-dependent acetylcholine =/ calcium

My Dr advised me to take VitD along with Magnesium the two together makes it easier for your system to absorb the Vitamins

This is my magnesium thread:

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread1138.html

Magnesium oxide does not work so please read labels carefully.
In mixtures listing several types, if magnesium oxide is listed,
assume the majority is it. It is very inexpensive and still used
in supplements that have more than one ingredient.

My thread explains doses, and gives options.

Magnesium is lost in the urine in diabetics, and also people who use caffeine and alcohol. Some drugs deplete it also, diuretics for example. If you use an acid blocking drug regularly, the reduced acid in the stomach impacts magnesium's ability to be
absorbed. Add to that poor diet, and that is why magnesium is
low in about 70% of the US population!

I've experimented with calcium, magnesium, and many other supplements and diets over the years. I can't say that I've ever found anything that was helpful.

i think im still recovering from my stupid mag deficiency. when i was severely deficient i felt like i was going to faint ALL the time. i still feel like that sometimes. im eating pretty healthy now and i still feel like crap. just a little less crappy. from my experience mag helped with excessive burning sensations and jaw pain

the take away from me is most of us eat like ****. dont eat too much of anything.



when i had serum mag of 2.2+ my tos did go away for a few days but the rest of my body was messed up

It's made a difference in mine. I started the Mg about a month ago, I think. It can take some time for it to correct, so give it a chance.

I'm using both internal (Mg citrate capsules) and external (transdermal Mg sulfate). I have experienced that rubbing the transdermal into problem spots helps.

I just hadn't thought much about the Ca aspect before seeing that little mention of it in the article.

Thanks. Looks like I'll be giving the Mg malate form a try now.

Hmmm this is very funny you metnion this cause my mom and dad told me a while ago as soon as i started having problems my dad told me stopp taking any kind of calcium.

But the only problem is I cant find a magnesium suppliment that doesnt have calcium in it aswell?

I was using Amazon to find Mg supplements. This one doesn't have Ca in it as far as I can tell:

http://www.amazon.com/Source-Natural...dp/B000GFJJKQ/

Same with some others.

I've only just started taking a low doze (150mg, about 50% RDA) Mg sup, just one a day because I am also taking multi vit and Zinc sups. The main ingredients are, Mg Oxide and Amino Acid Chelate then Sulphate.
Does this sound ok????????????:confused:

Thoughts please :)

Any supplement listing magnesium oxide + other types, will turn out to be mostly oxide.

Try to find one without oxide listed. Oxide is not absorbed we know now from studies, and remains in the bowel and acts like a laxative. It is a waste unless you are constipated.

To get into the blood stream you need chloride form delayed release called SlowMag, or its generic ... OR
a chelate that is listed alone. (no oxide with it). I have called manufacturers of supplements when oxide is listed with other ingredients and they cannot tell you what the ratios are in those mixtures. Assume it is oxide. Oxide is cheap and is used in most supplements.

citrate
gluconate
malate
taurate
lactate
carbonate

are examples of chelates.

I just hit Chp 4 "Magnesium and Calcium" in that book. Here are some select quotes:

Calcium and magnesium are opposites in their effects on our body structure. As a general rule, the more rigid and inflexible our body structure is, the less calcium and the more magnesium we need.

Both are required for optimum body function and health.

Calcium causes muscles to contract, while magnesium helps them relax.

Magnesium is essential for proper calcium absorption and is an important mineral in the bone matrix.

Thats good to know.:)
I've just had a look at all of my sups and can see listed on my zinc (15 mg one a day) magnesium Stearate as the last ingredient, and also listed midway on my one a day Multi Vit and iron sup.There's no % listed however for the Mg stearate on either of them. Can this be used to up my Mg intake as I'm not sure exactly how much is in it OR what exactly it is??????
I've done alittle research( very brief )....Is Magnesium Stearate just used to coat tablets OR is it also used to supplement?????
All this supplementation can be quite complicated.:confused:
Many thanks for the advice...... I'll make sure my next lot of sups are not basically oxide based.:winky:

Magnesium stearate is not absorbed. It is a filler added to powders so they will flow easily thru the tablet compression machine. It is sort of a powder lubricant. Your body cannot absorb it, and it passes out of your digestive tract in the stool.

If you dissolve a product with magnesium stearate in it, in a glass of water, you'll find that the stearate remains as a residue.
In capsules it even floats on the surface of the water.

Ok thanks, I guess I'm on the hunt for a good Mg sup then...... without the oxide.:winky:

im tempted to buy slowmag

mag glycinate has worked well for me

my mag serum levels are a 2.0 (2.2 was too high for me) and theyve been that awy for 4 months now but my rbc mag is still 4.6 (4.2-6.8 range)

you'd think with a serum that high my rbc would be higher by now :confused:

Red blood cells I believe receive their electrolytes when they are formed and the electrolytes remain in them until they are recycled. The average life is 3 months.

Over time if you are good in serum levels, the red cell content may increase. But it will be a slow process. Other areas of the body use magnesium too...muscles, nerves, and bone.

thanks, my doc just said my results were normal. i did not know that about three months. itll be interesting when i go back for a followup in jan.

i should say since my mag levels are going back up (and quitting celexa) ive gained a few brain cells :)

I am happy for you that you are doing so well! Congrats!

I, too, have been reading a bit about magnesium supplementation and transdermal therapy. Long ago in my journey, a Feldenkrais practitioner insisted I supplement with Magnesium during my therapy with her. I was pointed to a health food store where the pills I bought were GIANT, and I only took them now and then when I had the courage.

Later, I tried the Citrate variety in powder form, but that proved to be more of a laxative and I could never get into higher mg supplementation with it.

I'm now using a brand called Jigsaw http://www.jigsawhealth.com/supplements/magnesium The pills are easy to swallow and I have been able to slowly get up to 750mg over the past weeks with minimal gastric issues.

I'm also using Ancient Minerals Magnesium Oil and Lotion. I made the mistake of not rinsing off the oil after 20 min and got into trouble with rashes and skin irritation. The lotion causes no problems, but it absorbs at a lower rate.

It's to early to tell if anything positive will come from this trial. I always assumed I ate a well-balanced, close to the source diet as possible, but when you read about the foods which are high in magnesium, I ate very few. Going through this TOS process has been devastating on my adrenals, and in addition, I ate a calcium rich diet to fend off early-onset of Osteoporosis.

Sounds like it takes a couple of months at minimum to "notice" any benefits from supplementation for my use, so I'll keep you posted.

im taking slow release magtab which is very similar and on top of that glycinate and eposm salt baths (bc im severely deficient). you will notice in a few weeks you sleep better. the more you feel it the more deficient you are imho.

i AGREE. supplementing magnesium is a must.

i thought id comment in here ia m too lazy to make a new thread. since we're speaking of alternative therapies, my sex hormones are messed up. i have negative progesterone and very very very little testosterone which can definitely effect things. i'm hoping to improve this with diet and exercise.

actually the progesterone might be low if im low in zinc

another thing i gotta figure out, gaaah.

Similar experience here to Anne4tos. I use the mag citrate, but cannot take much of it without gi issues.

I use the Ancient Minerals Mag too and yeah, it was itchy. Interestingly, after a couple of months, it's not itchy any more even after an hour.

I also quit coffee because caffeine causes the body to eliminate magnesium.

yeah and carbonated drinks are supposed to be really bad

i have to say during the time my mag was low i was drinking gallons of green tea

oh and another crazy thing is i still get foot cramps sometimes. i actually got them more once i was feeling BETTER

I had problems with circulation through my calves and feet due to the calves being so tight. Similar to what's described at http://www.ctds.info/ankles1.html although with less swelling.

I added calf and hamstring stretches to my daily routine and saw an improvement after a week. I even went with the book she recommended, Stretching by Bob Anderson.