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-   -   Facial Paresthesia (https://www.neurotalk.org/dentistry-and-dental-issues/161904-facial-paresthesia.html)

breezy1 12-12-2011 08:13 AM

Facial Paresthesia
 
I started having some dental work done last spring. Over time, my face has become numb (paresthesia). Symptoms include prickling, lack of taste, cold/hot, little electrical currents and some mild shooting pains when I tap my teeth together. Feels like my mouth and lips are covered with grease that has been mixed with sand. Not horrible pain, but constant (not intermittant) irritation. It feels somewhat like when anesthetic is wearing off, but it never does.

This has now been going on for over 7 months. Dentist has no ideas, oral surgeon has no ideas, PCP has no ideas, and neuro has not ideas. I had an MRI that was completely negative. I am wondering about a reaction to the anesthetic used?? This numbness goes from the outer corner of my right eye down my cheek across my upper and lower lip, chin, lower edge of nose and half way up the left cheek. It also includes my tongue, inner lips, and along the gingiva both upper and lower. It is really frustrating as food tastes like saw dust. With my eyes closed I can't tell if I am chewing filet mignon, chicken or rubber, not to mention the irritability it causes. I find myself constantly licking my lips and running my tongue around my mouth.

I am taking Vitamin B3, C, fish oil, CoQ10, garlic.

Anybody have ideas or suggestions?

mrsD 12-12-2011 08:22 AM

Why B3?
What type of B3....straight niacin? or niacinamide?

If it is niacin, you could be having nerve symptoms ... it causes flushing and tingling. I would stop the B3 for a while and see what happens.

I'd get testing for B12. And see if you are low. Some paresthesias on the face are low calcium related to low Vit D status. So getting D tested is a good idea too.

The nerve distribution you describe sounds like trigeminal involvement. Did you get inhaled flu vaccine? Have you had chicken pox in the past? Herpes Zoster can activate and give pain symptoms without the rash. You can ask for blood work to measure Herpes titres to see if they are elevated.
Inhaled flu vaccine has been implicated in Bell's palsy which involves the trigeminal nerve. But your description is only sensory, which suggests shingles without rash.

I can't comment on the dental aspect of this, but I am sure Bryanna will be here when she gets a chance.

breezy1 12-12-2011 08:36 AM

Facial paresthesia
 
Haven't started the B3 yet, was just recommended by the oral surgeon on Friday, so not that.

Had flu shot, not nasal spray, so not that.

Bells Palsy has been ruled out, as has stroke, or anything to do with the brain or brain stem.

Have had chix pox, but no rash currently, so herpes zoster doubtful. Nobody has yet suggested that as a possibility.

Am seeing a specialist at Harvard next week.

Neuro says inflamed trigeminal 2 and 3. Question is why and what to do. Can't imagine that this might be permanent.

mrsD 12-12-2011 09:36 AM

Zoster without rash is called Zoster sine herpete.

If you Google that you'll find some explanations.

One thing you can try, is when you see the doctor next:
Ask to try amitriptyline. In low doses, 10 or 25mg a day, this can help with nerve problems and healing. If it works, it points to an injury to the nerve or viral actions.

Have you tried ice on that side? Ice typically puts Herpes into
remission for some. 20 minutes tops... 2 or 3 times a day.

A diet high in arginine may encourage herpes to activate.L- Lysine helps quiet it. So taking some lysine may help. If it works, then viral cause is likely. Try 2 grams a day. You should see some effects within a week or two, if it is going to work.

breezy1 12-12-2011 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrsD (Post 831641)
Zoster without rash is called Zoster sine herpete.

If you Google that you'll find some explanations.

One thing you can try, is when you see the doctor next:
Ask to try amitriptyline. In low doses, 10 or 25mg a day, this can help with nerve problems and healing. If it works, it points to an injury to the nerve or viral actions.

Have you tried ice on that side? Ice typically puts Herpes into
remission for some. 20 minutes tops... 2 or 3 times a day.

A diet high in arginine may encourage herpes to activate.L- Lysine helps quiet it. So taking some lysine may help. If it works, then viral cause is likely. Try 2 grams a day. You should see some effects within a week or two, if it is going to work.

Just to clarify, this is both sides of my face, not one sided. Googled Zoster sine herpete, but I have had no fever or illness at all - I very seldom get sick at all, so to me it seems unlikely, but...... Ice does not sound appealing, ironically heat sounds better, but I'll try anything. Heat hasn't helped. Will work on L-Lysine and talk with Dr. about amitriptyline and see what he says.

breezy1 12-12-2011 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrsD (Post 831633)
Why B3?
What type of B3....straight niacin? or niacinamide?

If it is niacin, you could be having nerve symptoms ... it causes flushing and tingling. I would stop the B3 for a while and see what happens.

I'd get testing for B12. And see if you are low. Some paresthesias on the face are low calcium related to low Vit D status. So getting D tested is a good idea too.

The nerve distribution you describe sounds like trigeminal involvement. Did you get inhaled flu vaccine? Have you had chicken pox in the past? Herpes Zoster can activate and give pain symptoms without the rash. You can ask for blood work to measure Herpes titres to see if they are elevated.
Inhaled flu vaccine has been implicated in Bell's palsy which involves the trigeminal nerve. But your description is only sensory, which suggests shingles without rash.

I can't comment on the dental aspect of this, but I am sure Bryanna will be here when she gets a chance.

Actually the oral surgeon suggested the B3, as he said it has been shown to help CP when the nerves demylinate (sp?). He did say to start slow with 1000mg and that I could actually go up to maybe 5000mg if it seemd to be helping. He seems very knowledgeable about vitamin therapy. He said starting too high could make me light headed. I haven't started the niacin at all yet, its on my list to buy tomorrow.

mrsD 12-12-2011 06:13 PM

Never heard about that.... B12 yes... B3 no.

5000mg of B3 is toxic to the liver over time.

I'd call him back and confirm.

B12 + folate and B6 help remyelinate nerves along with fish oil.

Not B3. You need to do some research on this. And get tested for B12 and Vit D deficiency. Something is not right here... some miscommunication or something.

A normally healthy person would not need 5000mg of niacin for anything! IMO

Bryanna 12-12-2011 07:52 PM

Hi breezy,

I would like to try to help you with this. I have some questions if you wouldn't mind answering...

1) What dental procedures did you have done and was any of it a re-do or re-treatment?

2) Were mercury (silver colored) fillings removed? Were special precautions taken to limit the exposure of the mercury?

3) Where in your mouth...what teeth?

4) What anesthetic did they use?

5) Were you ill just prior to having any of the dental work done or anytime during the work?

6) When did the sensations first begin... after the first injection... midway through treatment...?

7) Where did you notice the initial sensations, how long before it spread?

8) About how old are you? ;) Just for outside chance it is something related to thyroid or hormones.

9) Have you ever had a negative reaction to a local anesthetic anyplace on your body? Or a long term effect... more than a few hours?

10) Did you have difficulty getting numb... did the dentist have to keep giving more anesthetic on any particular procedure?

Your description of your mouth and lips... grease and sand.... is one that I have not yet heard! I'm trying to imagine what that would feel like.

The fact that the sensation has crossed the mid-line would generally rule out anything in the shingles family. But I'm not completely sure about that.

I've sent a note to Stacy who is a member here and also a pharmacist. She may have some insight into the supplements and meds.... etc. I know Mrs D is concerned about the vitamin b3 and perhaps with good reason.

Look forward to your reply when you get the chance.
Bryanna




Quote:

Originally Posted by breezy1 (Post 831630)
I started having some dental work done last spring. Over time, my face has become numb (paresthesia). Symptoms include prickling, lack of taste, cold/hot, little electrical currents and some mild shooting pains when I tap my teeth together. Feels like my mouth and lips are covered with grease that has been mixed with sand. Not horrible pain, but constant (not intermittant) irritation. It feels somewhat like when anesthetic is wearing off, but it never does.

This has now been going on for over 7 months. Dentist has no ideas, oral surgeon has no ideas, PCP has no ideas, and neuro has not ideas. I had an MRI that was completely negative. I am wondering about a reaction to the anesthetic used?? This numbness goes from the outer corner of my right eye down my cheek across my upper and lower lip, chin, lower edge of nose and half way up the left cheek. It also includes my tongue, inner lips, and along the gingiva both upper and lower. It is really frustrating as food tastes like saw dust. With my eyes closed I can't tell if I am chewing filet mignon, chicken or rubber, not to mention the irritability it causes. I find myself constantly licking my lips and running my tongue around my mouth.

I am taking Vitamin B3, C, fish oil, CoQ10, garlic.

Anybody have ideas or suggestions?


breezy1 12-12-2011 10:46 PM

Details
 
Okay, here goes:

1, 3 and 4. Dental procedures were on 30 and 21. # 30 had a crown and they (dentist and endo) decided it needed a root canal - unfortunately, the canal was calcified so after two sessions the endo decided that the tooth would fail as root canal - not possible. So tooth was extracted by oral surgeon with plan for an implant. That side of mouth has had a block 4 times (2 for rc, one for tooth extraction and one for implant insertion) - my understanding was that it was a long lasting block. I specifically asked and was told that articaine or septacaine was used. Each time it seemed that they had to use 3 cartridges for anesthetic doing both a block and then infiltration (I think it is called). On the other side, tooth #21 was part of a 3 unit bridge, so bridge was cut off and then options were a 4 unit bridge (as #21 was removed) or 2 implants. This side also was anesthetized 4 times again articaine was used.

2. No mercury

5. I never get ill, however, I had the flu shot this year and had a reaction that needed to be reported - hot flush, weakness, nausea about 3 hours after injection. Was fine the next day.

6. Seems like the anesthetic went away quickly and a few days later this tingling started and it has now been ongoing - since June after extraction. First it was on the right side only and now on both sides. Treatment has been ongoing.

7. Initial sensation was in right upper cheek near TMJ, but I am not good at recalling exact details. It gets confusing as I was seeing dentist, endo and oral surgeon and each was doing his thing.

8. I am 65 and I do have hypothyroid, which is under control.

9. I have never had a negative reaction to any anesthetic (was actually surprised by the reaction to the flu shot this year).

10. I did have difficulty getting numb and as I said above, oral surgeon used 3 cartridges each time. He seemed surprised at the lack of total numbness after 7 to 10 minutes.

The sensation is awful, again, not horribly painful, but irritating and the loss of taste is annoying. I keep chewing my cheeks and biting my tongue.

With the concern being expressed I'll hold on the B3 until I hear more. But, am sure he said niacin.

Also, have had 3 implants placed with bone graft on 20 and 21. # 20 implant failed and was removed along with the graft. In April oral surgeon is planning a bone graft from my lower jaw to the implant site. I am really concerned about having more dental work done, but at the moment I am having difficulty chewing the food that I cannot taste. It has been difficult and any help will be appreciated.

Thanks

mrsD 12-13-2011 09:07 AM

Vaccine injury ...not good.

Vaccine injuries affect the nerves in some people.

This can be autoimmune, or it can be due to increased inflammatory cytokines that are stimulated by the adjuvants in the vaccines which continue at high level in some people after the initial vaccine injection. This is called a cytokine storm.

Anti-inflammatory response with steroids or NSAIDs may point to this type of inflammation and calm it. If you ask for a Medrol dospak, and it works some for you, that would point to inflammatory reactions.

If you would like to learn more about vaccine injuries and how they happen, Dr. Blaylock is very active in interpreting the medical data on this problem which is becoming very common lately with the push to get more and more vaccines.
If you are interested, check out all four of these YouTubes:
This is the link to the first one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--nWrqIspnQ
Part 2 after this, goes into how vaccine reactions can harm people.

We have had people on these forums who developed nerve damage following vaccines.

And do get the testing for B12 and D. If you use acid blocking drugs for long periods of time, OR, use Metformin daily, you could be low in B12 levels. You will want to know the results in numbers because testing lab ranges go LOW in US and you can have nerve damage at low "normals". New low level in recent medical CME's is now 400. When B12 goes low, nerve repair, cannot proceed well if at all. Your body can store about 5 yrs worth if you were doing well, but that varies from person to person. The blood tests are simple, and very useful. Many people are also low in Vit D and that upsets calcium metabolism and can cause paresthesias, as well.

I would NOT follow the Niacin B3 recommendation at this time until you clarify it. The doses you quote are however, in the range for oral B12 supplementation, and safe for B12. (not Niacin).

So far today we have two current posters with vaccine histories with painful Peripheral Neuropathic problems.
One from Adult Pertussis vaccine and one who received the H1N1...

This problem you have may initially be connected to your dental injections, and the injury may progress because of the inflammation going on in your body. But that is difficult to say.
Only...7 months is too long for an initial injury to heal, so something may be going on beyond it.

This is my B12 thread:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread85103.html
Please look at it, as it explains, alot. And has medical links for you to read too.

We have a Vitamin forum here, that you can also visit, if you choose.

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/forum49.html
The net has many good sites you can research your Niacin issue.
I suggest this one to start:
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/niacin/

There is a huge difference between Niacin and nicotinamide. So when you discuss this with the doctor please be precise and write down what he says. Nicotinamide is less problematic than Niacin (B3).

breezy1 12-13-2011 09:13 AM

Neuropathy and vaccine??
 
I may have forgotten to mention when I had the flu vaccine - it was in September and this paresthesia was already well under way.

mrsD 12-13-2011 09:42 AM

Do you get the vaccine each fall?

Vaccines are being looked at as triggers for many autoimmune issues. And not only in humans.

Vaccines in cats are known to cause many diseases now.
In fact they have a new adjuvant free vaccine for cats (rabies), to avoid the cancer that the older vaccines with adjuvants that are thought now to cause vaccination induced sarcoma.
The distemper boosters for cats cause autoimmune kidney disease, for one. Think very carefully, and do your research before any more vaccines.

Vaccines for humans may contain contaminants...other viruses in fact. Watch Dr. Blaylock's informative videos. There is even a video on YouTube now with the former head of vaccines at Merck that ADMITS to contamination in the past. (you have to look around for it --and I warn you it is disturbing).

There is a nerve damage that comes from virus infections... called viral mimicry... Our PN board has links to special tests to test for various gangliosides that might be present after viral assaults. The viral reactions are usually body wide and burning, but can present in many complicated ways.
This is when the body makes antibodies during an infection and when that is over the antibodies remain and attack the host and depending on protein sequences may mimic nervous tissue.
One very well known autoimmune type happens with Strep and it is called PANDAs... but one of our posters at PN discussed with his specialist this "mimicry" situation is possible with other infections too, and we just don't have diagnostic tests to measure them all.

Damage to the trigeminal nerves may just "happen". So you may want to post at our TN forum, as some people have bilateral trigeminal damage and discuss it there.
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/forum26.html

Sorry to say, it is not an easy problem you have. But there are many people here who you can read about their experiences. We are all different, and it can be confounding to get the correct help. And sometimes there is no answer, sadly. At PN the "no answer" is called idiopathic.

I think an answer to Bryanna's questions for a start, on this venue, is a good beginning, and also you can start to read the links I shared with you.

breezy1 12-13-2011 10:10 AM

Vaccines
 
In the past I never got the flu vaccine, as I never get the flu (I mean never) even when everybody around me is getting it. However, 2 years ago my grandson was born a micropreemie and I could not be around him unless I got H1N1 and seasonal flu vaccine, which is why I started getting it. So, this is the third time that I have gotten flu vaccine. I do not plan to get it again. I have never had a reaction in the past. Perhaps another important piece of information is that I do have Hashimoto's Disease.

mrsD 12-13-2011 10:36 AM

It sure would be helpful to get as much info on you in the beginning. Having Hashimoto's is a huge pointer to other autoimmune issues.

This is our autoimmune forum:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/forum44.html

You can use the search function at the top right of the first page of any forum to search your topic.

Autoimmune disease tends to cluster in some patients. The triggers can be vaccines...as one example.
But there is a dietary cause called gluten intolerance/Celiac which has with time, been shown to affect the thyroid and nerves and many other parts of the body. Some thyroid disease runs in families, and this may be an autoimmune tendency as well.

Please read this link:
http://sites.google.com/site/jccglutenfree/

Autoimmune issues are explained in the Dr. Blaylock YouTubes.
Really that should be your first stop.

This poster:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/sh...023#post830023
He is finding positive results from steroid treatment for his supposed vaccine injury.

It is also, a topic, that doctors avoid typically. So getting confirmation of a trigger of vaccines for YOU will not be easily forthcoming. The poster in the link above, is unusual in that his doctor links his nerve problems to the H1N1 vaccine. But that is not the typical way one would be diagnosed today IMO.

In your case an injury during your dental work, which may have repaired itself over time, would possibly be a problem if you are making antibodies to the myelin coating of the axons of the nerves. Once injured, the nerves would attract cytokines in the body and also the antibodies. When this over-reacts, then healing is compromised and inflammation continues instead.

I have some posts explaining nerves/ and nerve signal transmission here:
Sometimes pictures help:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/post828704-7.html

People typically end up here after seeing several doctors unsuccessfully for a chronic problem. And often the answer is not easy to find. All you can do is read what many of us have learned over the years, and are sharing here. Eventually most people find a way to heal themselves. But it can take time and patience.

breezy1 12-13-2011 04:04 PM

B12
 
My immediate reaction is to wonder if I should start taking B12 (bought it today when I was out). However, then I ask myself if I need to first get some testing done for B12. If taking it would camouflage problems, than I may never know if I am low in B12. On the other hand, I need some help now.

I had previously mentioned that I am hypothyroid and thought that the majority of hypothyroid problems were autoimmune; guess I should have stated that.

I am wondering exactly what kind of doctor I should be talking with - suggestions?? Seems it isn't a neurologist, dentist or oral surgeon. My PCP is infectious disease. Should I be seeing somebody in immunology? Is that a specialty? I consider myself intelligent, but this is truly confusing. I see drs so seldom - generally only for a yearly physical.

Dry socket girl 12-13-2011 04:23 PM

Hi. I have sjourens, celiac, and vit d deficiency. I am under the care of a rheumatologist who does blood on me every 3 months to check for everything including all my vitamin levels.
Have you see one yet?



QUOTE=breezy1;832043]My immediate reaction is to wonder if I should start taking B12 (bought it today when I was out). However, then I ask myself if I need to first get some testing done for B12. If taking it would camouflage problems, than I may never know if I am low in B12. On the other hand, I need some help now.

I had previously mentioned that I am hypothyroid and thought that the majority of hypothyroid problems were autoimmune; guess I should have stated that.

I am wondering exactly what kind of doctor I should be talking with - suggestions?? Seems it isn't a neurologist, dentist or oral surgeon. My PCP is infectious disease. Should I be seeing somebody in immunology? Is that a specialty? I consider myself intelligent, but this is truly confusing. I see drs so seldom - generally only for a yearly physical.[/QUOTE]

mrsD 12-13-2011 04:39 PM

Not all hypothyroid is autoimmune. Mine is not... just had the antibodies tested for again... normal. I am hypo and use 75mcg a day of levothyroxine. I've never tested positive on an autoimmune screen and I've had 2 of them. My right sided goiter receded after treatment. My left lobe is partially non-functional, with no explanation or reason known.

Of course tests are only a snapshot in time, and some autoimmune markers like ANA can change and fluctuate.

I do think it is a good idea to have testing first. It helps put you in the scheme of things. The new low cut off is 400 in US, and you should ideally be higher than that. I have a link to Dr. Snow's work, from 1999 in my B12 thread explaining that he found some people with relatively normal B12 levels around 400 or so who still improved with the supplement anyway. Which suggests that some people may have a greater need than others for some reason.

When you supplement you will want to use METHYLcobalamin because it is already bioactive. There is a DNA mutation that about 10% of people have called MTHFR polymorphism, and they cannot methylate B12 and folate. Cyano in most vitamins in most local stores is NOT active form, and hence may not work at all in these people. One doctor came to our board and commented not long ago that perhaps 30% are affected..as some studies he's seen now suggest. So using the active form is best. It has to be taken on an empty stomach because micrograms of drugs or anything can get lost in food/fiber in the GI tract. People who come here eventually may be low because their intrinsic factor is not working and hence passive absorption is all you have...so you have to have no food present to enable the small amount from the oral doses to get into your body. The same applies to your thyroid medication, by the way... empty stomach.

Vit D also can very low...get them both done. One cause of paresthesia around the mouth, etc is a sign of calcium impairment.

People with those Hashimoto's antibodies, may have gluten issues. When that happens, malabsorption occurs in the GI tract of many (not just D and B12) but many other nutrients.
Cara's website The Gluten File (she and I go WAY back a decade now), is very complete on the testing, you can have. Blood work, stool type, etc. She saved her family with this information and remains passionate to this day about it.

But first please give Bryanna the dental details she needs to make her evaluation of your nerve pain. She is very thorough and experienced and may have insights for you.

7 months is a long time for this to be going on IMO. The fact that is has moved over to the other side now, suggests a process of some sort. Since you had an MRI I assume showing your sinuses? ... that was clean?

What I think today, is use the doctors for the testing, and bring your numbers here. Their treatments are typically weak and ineffective. A shot of B12 once a month ? Pffffftttt... many people need more than that. And Using the RX D2? double Pffftttt... doesn't work. You will need D3 if low.

Healing you up you can do with guidance here. Testing you have to request from doctors. Naturopaths, load you up with many expensive things.... but here we start you differently and typically many people improve. Peripheral neuropathy is a huge subject --over 100 causes... and medicine ignores all but the ones that respond to IVIG. Our SubForum is growing with information daily:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/forum119.html

If you are using statins for cholesterol? That will be something on that forum for you to consider. Statins prevent remyelination of damaged nerves and cause neuropathies among other things.

But do give Bryanna a chance to evaluate you. You can always PM her for privacy and me too if you want.

Bryanna 12-13-2011 11:58 PM

Breezy,

Thanks for all the info... I am going to read and sort through it and see what I can come up with. I think I see some possible trigger points but I don't want to reply just yet, I want to review it more closely.

By any chance do you have xrays that you could post of the areas that have been worked on?

Bryanna

Quote:

Originally Posted by breezy1 (Post 831843)
Okay, here goes:

1, 3 and 4. Dental procedures were on 30 and 21. # 30 had a crown and they (dentist and endo) decided it needed a root canal - unfortunately, the canal was calcified so after two sessions the endo decided that the tooth would fail as root canal - not possible. So tooth was extracted by oral surgeon with plan for an implant. That side of mouth has had a block 4 times (2 for rc, one for tooth extraction and one for implant insertion) - my understanding was that it was a long lasting block. I specifically asked and was told that articaine or septacaine was used. Each time it seemed that they had to use 3 cartridges for anesthetic doing both a block and then infiltration (I think it is called). On the other side, tooth #21 was part of a 3 unit bridge, so bridge was cut off and then options were a 4 unit bridge (as #21 was removed) or 2 implants. This side also was anesthetized 4 times again articaine was used.

2. No mercury

5. I never get ill, however, I had the flu shot this year and had a reaction that needed to be reported - hot flush, weakness, nausea about 3 hours after injection. Was fine the next day.

6. Seems like the anesthetic went away quickly and a few days later this tingling started and it has now been ongoing - since June after extraction. First it was on the right side only and now on both sides. Treatment has been ongoing.

7. Initial sensation was in right upper cheek near TMJ, but I am not good at recalling exact details. It gets confusing as I was seeing dentist, endo and oral surgeon and each was doing his thing.

8. I am 65 and I do have hypothyroid, which is under control.

9. I have never had a negative reaction to any anesthetic (was actually surprised by the reaction to the flu shot this year).

10. I did have difficulty getting numb and as I said above, oral surgeon used 3 cartridges each time. He seemed surprised at the lack of total numbness after 7 to 10 minutes.

The sensation is awful, again, not horribly painful, but irritating and the loss of taste is annoying. I keep chewing my cheeks and biting my tongue.

With the concern being expressed I'll hold on the B3 until I hear more. But, am sure he said niacin.

Also, have had 3 implants placed with bone graft on 20 and 21. # 20 implant failed and was removed along with the graft. In April oral surgeon is planning a bone graft from my lower jaw to the implant site. I am really concerned about having more dental work done, but at the moment I am having difficulty chewing the food that I cannot taste. It has been difficult and any help will be appreciated.

Thanks


flygirl7 12-15-2011 10:21 PM

Hi: I'm a pharmacist, and I've read through these posts, and it does sound very much like you have autoimmune problems going on that could contribute to the paresthesia you now have.

Some researchers have pointed to latent effects of vaccines on susceptible individuals. Obviously, not everyone has problems from vaccines, but we almost never know who will before they receive a vaccine. The damage can show up much later, triggered by many different things. So I would not rule that out, especially since you did have the H1N1 vaccine, a particularly sloppy vaccine.

About the vitamins that have been recommended to you: Vitamin D3 is so helpful for almost everything in our bodies (since it's not really a vitamin but a hormone). Get tested, but I'll bet you are low since most people are, and then get started on 5000 units-10,000 units a day, retest in 3 months.

Niacin (B3) is more commonly prescribed for cholesterol, up to 6 g a day max. I don't know that I would jump on board on that one. The B vitamins, in general (with some exceptions), are meant to be taken together in balanced quantities. I don't find the same information that your doctor said about it.

B12 is an exception because if you're deficient, you would supplement with just B12. You could just start on this, but get tested first to avoid wasting your money on a supplement you don't need. Our absorption of B12 from food decreases with age because our stomachs produce less acid, which is required to absorb B12. So an older person taking the same amount of B12 as a younger person will derive less benefit!

Good luck to you. It's complex, and it may turn out to be multi-factorial (as I suspect).

Stacy

breezy1 12-16-2011 07:47 AM

Vitamins
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flygirl7 (Post 832746)
Hi: I'm a pharmacist, and I've read through these posts, and it does sound very much like you have autoimmune problems going on that could contribute to the paresthesia you now have.

Some researchers have pointed to latent effects of vaccines on susceptible individuals. Obviously, not everyone has problems from vaccines, but we almost never know who will before they receive a vaccine. The damage can show up much later, triggered by many different things. So I would not rule that out, especially since you did have the H1N1 vaccine, a particularly sloppy vaccine.

About the vitamins that have been recommended to you: Vitamin D3 is so helpful for almost everything in our bodies (since it's not really a vitamin but a hormone). Get tested, but I'll bet you are low since most people are, and then get started on 5000 units-10,000 units a day, retest in 3 months.

Niacin (B3) is more commonly prescribed for cholesterol, up to 6 g a day max. I don't know that I would jump on board on that one. The B vitamins, in general (with some exceptions), are meant to be taken together in balanced quantities. I don't find the same information that your doctor said about it.

B12 is an exception because if you're deficient, you would supplement with just B12. You could just start on this, but get tested first to avoid wasting your money on a supplement you don't need. Our absorption of B12 from food decreases with age because our stomachs produce less acid, which is required to absorb B12. So an older person taking the same amount of B12 as a younger person will derive less benefit!

Good luck to you. It's complex, and it may turn out to be multi-factorial (as I suspect).

Stacy

Thanks for all of the above. I had already called the neuro to ask about testing for B12, which he doesn't seem to think is required at the moment. I already take D3 for bones. Neuro says he doubts that we are dealing with anything related to immunizations. He told me to wait until I see the maxillofacial surgeon next week. Given this I have opted to start the B12, which can't hurt and can always be discontinued if it does not seem to help. Does this make sense? Ovbiously this would preclude doing a B12 test that would show anything later.

Originally I was thinking that I was dealing with an articaine reaction, but now I think that it may actually be mulit-faceted. I'll keep you posted.

mrsD 12-16-2011 07:58 AM

Thanks for the update.

I think it would be very rare to get a doctor to admit to a vaccine injury. They are like a stone wall in this regard. The people affected by vaccines are typically those who have potential for autoimmune reactions, or who already have autoimmune disease.

You will want to use activated B12 for best results. Some people just cannot convert the cyanide portion to activate the common Cyanocobalamin. The new active form is now very inexpensive and can be found on the net easily. iherb.com, Puritan's Pride and Swanson's. Take it on an empty stomach for best results. You can take it with your levothyroxine which is what I do each morning first thing. Food impairs absorption of B12 like it does your thyroid medication.

B12 is only a beginning. There are many other things you can try eventually to help healing. You can PM me any time, too.

breezy1 12-16-2011 08:05 PM

B12
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mrsD (Post 832826)
Thanks for the update.

I think it would be very rare to get a doctor to admit to a vaccine injury. They are like a stone wall in this regard. The people affected by vaccines are typically those who have potential for autoimmune reactions, or who already have autoimmune disease.

You will want to use activated B12 for best results. Some people just cannot convert the cyanide portion to activate the common Cyanocobalamin. The new active form is now very inexpensive and can be found on the net easily. iherb.com, Puritan's Pride and Swanson's. Take it on an empty stomach for best results. You can take it with your levothyroxine which is what I do each morning first thing. Food impairs absorption of B12 like it does your thyroid medication.

B12 is only a beginning. There are many other things you can try eventually to help healing. You can PM me any time, too.

mrsD, thanks for the encouragement, I think I need that right now. I'll look forward to further input after I see the dr at Harvard next week.

Bryanna 12-16-2011 10:20 PM

Hi Brie,

I sent my email address to you in reply to your pm to me. Perhaps you can attach the xrays to my email?

Ok.... some more questions with the assumption that you had a 3 unit bridge on teeth #19, 20 and 21. Number 19 was an anchor tooth, #20 was previously extracted and #21 was recently extracted. You had bone grafts and implants placed in #20 and 21 sites.... #21 failed. Yes?

1) Is #19 root canaled? If so, how many times?

2) Was tooth #21 root canaled? If so how many times? Why did it need to be extracted?

3) Missing tooth #20... had that been previously root canaled? If so, how many times? Why was it extracted and approximately how long ago?

4) What was the sequence of treatment on #20 and 21? How many surgeries to extract, place bone grafts, place implants? Was all of that done at the same surgery?

5) How did you know the implant failed...was the implant loose... was there infection?

6) The flu shot that you had a reaction to.... was that shot AFTER you began having these facial sensations?

7) Tooth #30 is mutli rooted and for all of the canals to be calcified, it had to be diseased for quite some time. Was there an infection picked up on an xray of this tooth?

8) Do you remember having "fistula's" on any of these teeth? These are pimple like bumps on the gum above/below an infected tooth.

With regard to supplementing with B12... I would suggest to use a sub-lingual form because this method bypasses the digestive tract, requires no stomach acid to break it down and it enters the bloodstream more quickly. I personally use Jarrows Formula Methyl B-12 5000 mcg, one tablet per day Mon thru Sat.... I take all of my supplements 6 days on, one day off as prescribed by my Integrative physician.

I agree that your condition at this point is multi faceted. I also think that at least one source or culprit to this problem may be infection. Your reply to these questions may be helpful and those xrays would be too if at all possible.

Hang in there....
Bryanna






Quote:

Originally Posted by breezy1 (Post 831843)
Okay, here goes:

1, 3 and 4. Dental procedures were on 30 and 21. # 30 had a crown and they (dentist and endo) decided it needed a root canal - unfortunately, the canal was calcified so after two sessions the endo decided that the tooth would fail as root canal - not possible. So tooth was extracted by oral surgeon with plan for an implant. That side of mouth has had a block 4 times (2 for rc, one for tooth extraction and one for implant insertion) - my understanding was that it was a long lasting block. I specifically asked and was told that articaine or septacaine was used. Each time it seemed that they had to use 3 cartridges for anesthetic doing both a block and then infiltration (I think it is called). On the other side, tooth #21 was part of a 3 unit bridge, so bridge was cut off and then options were a 4 unit bridge (as #21 was removed) or 2 implants. This side also was anesthetized 4 times again articaine was used.

2. No mercury

5. I never get ill, however, I had the flu shot this year and had a reaction that needed to be reported - hot flush, weakness, nausea about 3 hours after injection. Was fine the next day.

6. Seems like the anesthetic went away quickly and a few days later this tingling started and it has now been ongoing - since June after extraction. First it was on the right side only and now on both sides. Treatment has been ongoing.

7. Initial sensation was in right upper cheek near TMJ, but I am not good at recalling exact details. It gets confusing as I was seeing dentist, endo and oral surgeon and each was doing his thing.

8. I am 65 and I do have hypothyroid, which is under control.

9. I have never had a negative reaction to any anesthetic (was actually surprised by the reaction to the flu shot this year).

10. I did have difficulty getting numb and as I said above, oral surgeon used 3 cartridges each time. He seemed surprised at the lack of total numbness after 7 to 10 minutes.

The sensation is awful, again, not horribly painful, but irritating and the loss of taste is annoying. I keep chewing my cheeks and biting my tongue.

With the concern being expressed I'll hold on the B3 until I hear more. But, am sure he said niacin.

Also, have had 3 implants placed with bone graft on 20 and 21. # 20 implant failed and was removed along with the graft. In April oral surgeon is planning a bone graft from my lower jaw to the implant site. I am really concerned about having more dental work done, but at the moment I am having difficulty chewing the food that I cannot taste. It has been difficult and any help will be appreciated.

Thanks


sarah29 12-20-2011 03:25 PM

Hope
 
Hi all, this site gave me hope in times of recent desperation so I wanted to post regarding a success! On 26th Oct 2011 I had 4 of my lower teeth extracted (these were baby teeth) at the same time I had a bone graft to build up my jaw ready for implants. I have a condition called Hypodontia (lack of teeth). The surgery was quite extensive lasting four hours, I was in hospital for 2 nights. After the tooth extraction/bone graft I was in a state, very bruised and numb from my right ear right down to the middle of my chin. Slowly I began to regain some feeling... down to my chin (I didn't really notice this as I was watching the bruising disappear rather than the feeling coming back). After a few weeks I started to feel a lot better but realised that my chin was still very numb - I panicked and began to search the net. I was so upset that this might be permanent facial paresthesia and when speaking to my consultant they didn't exactly reassure me saying 'we hope the feeling will come back' Anyway to cut a long story short and give some of you in a similar situation so hope it has been 8 weeks since my surgery and I have pretty much all of my feeling back in my face/chin/lips :) I started taking vitamin B Complex B12 about a month ago and think this really helped!!!! So all of you out there have faith!! Keep smiling even if it is a wonky one, a little like mine.

Bryanna 12-20-2011 11:08 PM

Hi sarah,

You had a difficult, extensive oral surgery and I'm so glad to hear that it went well!! Most of the time, the numbness is temporary but it can take several weeks to go away completely.

The B complex vitamin, B12 in particular, may be the most important vitamin when it comes to nerve tissue regeneration. I'm sure it helped in your case and if you continue to supplement with it, no doubt it will continue to help with the healing process throughout the placement of the implants.

Thanks so much for sharing your story!!!

Bryanna

QUOTE=sarah29;834045]Hi all, this site gave me hope in times of recent desperation so I wanted to post regarding a success! On 26th Oct 2011 I had 4 of my lower teeth extracted (these were baby teeth) at the same time I had a bone graft to build up my jaw ready for implants. I have a condition called Hypodontia (lack of teeth). The surgery was quite extensive lasting four hours, I was in hospital for 2 nights. After the tooth extraction/bone graft I was in a state, very bruised and numb from my right ear right down to the middle of my chin. Slowly I began to regain some feeling... down to my chin (I didn't really notice this as I was watching the bruising disappear rather than the feeling coming back). After a few weeks I started to feel a lot better but realised that my chin was still very numb - I panicked and began to search the net. I was so upset that this might be permanent facial paresthesia and when speaking to my consultant they didn't exactly reassure me saying 'we hope the feeling will come back' Anyway to cut a long story short and give some of you in a similar situation so hope it has been 8 weeks since my surgery and I have pretty much all of my feeling back in my face/chin/lips :) I started taking vitamin B Complex B12 about a month ago and think this really helped!!!! So all of you out there have faith!! Keep smiling even if it is a wonky one, a little like mine.[/QUOTE]


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