I'm afraid of myself when I'm angry at my bipolar niece
 

I feel a little awkward being here, mainly because I'm not actually the parent of a bipolar child; I'm just the aunt, currently living at home with my mom while I find money for college. About a year ago, my would be sister-in-law called my mom with the delightful ultimatum- either my mother takes in my 10-year-old niece or she goes in foster care. Since then, she's been living with us. I guess the point of this topic comes from the fact that sometimes, when she's at her worse, all I want to do is hit her. Last year she threw a major tantrum and hit my mother, it took everything in my willpower not to attack her.

Despite how bad things get, she's usually been respectful of my stuff, but since my mom took a second job in the evenings, she's gotten way more ballsy because my mother isn't around. We're a 1-car family, so I drop my mom off at work, then go out to do the grocery shopping or whatever else needs to be done. She's started stealing things from me (and losing the stolen items on top of everything) when I'm out of the house. Today we confronted her about it and she lied, of course. My mother punished her anyway, but when my niece is accused of lying, even if she is blatantly lying, she goes ballistic. And she's been refusing to take her medication recently, so today it was even worse than usual.

This evening she threw a huge fit: screaming, tossing papers, throwing food, the whole nine yards. During that fit, she turned to start screaming at me, and I felt myself getting angry enough to hit her again, but this time she started taunting me, saying "Go ahead! Hit me! See what happens!" If my mother weren't there to stop me, I think I might have actually done it.

I feel pathetic admitting a kid can get me that angry, but it's true. I wouldn't even consider myself a violent person. It's just the things she does- losing 1 of my shirts, ruining a pair of my shoes, screaming at my mother, screaming at me- build up until I can't take it. I spoke to my mother about it; her advice was if it ever got that bad again when she wasn't there, I should get out of the house immediately, just drive off and cool my head. But, she wants me to leave her alone with our valuables while she's having a violent fit? What should I do, barricade the bedroom doors?

I don't trust her enough to leave her alone for more than a few minutes, knowing she's willing to steal from me now. And I don't trust myself enough to stay in the house with her when she's throwing a tantrum and I'm that angry. I'm not sure what I should do. Sorry about this long post, by the way. Most of my family and friends are asleep and I guess I need to vent to someone.

It is natural for people to react with anger when taunted. When you feel this way, it is important to de-escalate the situation. Walk away. If you cannot physically walk away, do it mentally. Always act calm even if you do not feel it. When she is screaming it is the same as someone else vomiting. Please take a NAMI family-to-family class. It is free. It will help you. Many people have an emergency medication to take when they get that way. Does your niece have an emergency calming medication you can give her when she gets that way? Also, maybe you should read the book called "It's Not Mental" by Jeanie Wolfson since that is also about a child who had a severe mental illness. But maybe it is possible that your niece has more than bipolar. Maybe she also has a real personality problem and really is becoming a bad person. Bipolar does not make a person steal. It does not make a person taunt another person. Maybe it will predispose someone to do that when they are manic. Was she manic? If so, then the solution is better control of her symptoms. But maybe this behavior is not due to symptoms. It is very hard to know the difference.

Walk away
 

HI,

Jaspar is right.
Leave the situation either physically or mentally. Contact www.nami.org

Do you and your mother talk to the school counselor?

I suggest you get counseling for yourself. A counselor can teach you to handle this kind of situation you describe.

Get the book Jaspar recommends.
M

Hello gesturepen
 

It must be terribly difficult with that kind of situation. Please do get someone to help your family. A child like that needs help, and she is old enough to push all your buttons. The fact that she is stealing from you would be horrible in itself, even without all the tantrums. Until you get help, I agree, leave the house, she can scream at herself and alone. Take your valuables with you and pack a small bag just in case this happens, so she cannot take those things that have value to you. Don't stay in an atmosphere that can bring on violence, run like crazy from it. There are family counciling centers that deal with emergencies day and night. I would drive myself right over there and let them know what is going on in your household. we all have breaking points, where we no longer trust ourselves not to react. My father was a violent drunk. I wanted to hit him too!. I left instead. I sincerely hope you will follow up and try to get some profession involved in your household. This kind of atmosphere is toxic for everyone involved. This young person needs help which only a professional can deal with, especially when there is non-compliance in taking medications. I truely hope that a resolution can be found. You don't have to feel awkward in coming to this site. I hope others will chime in and try to help you too. I guess this is what I would do, if I were in a similar circumstances. Keep a level head and get someone to help. All my best to you. ginnie

Many things.

But two to start.

One, you are very welcome here. You are acting as the parent in place of your mother in the evening while she is gone. So you need to know what to
do. So in a different type of way you are a parent. We take all kinds here.
Just as we do in the regular bi-polar room.

Second, even though you need to leave the situation. And the house for
a while. Please make sure you and your mother can't get into trouble
leaving a child the age of I believe she is 10 or 11 at home alone at this
time of night or day. There are different laws in each state.

In Indiana, you could technically or your mother get into big trouble. And
then it would be out of your hands. And not only would she be in foster care,
but you would be in court. Not trying to scare you into anything. But just
making sure you check this out. And your mother is aware of the law.


Next, please make sure she has been to the doctor lately. Its very important.
She needs to be in therapy, you need to know how things are going at school too. It needs to be a combine effort.

Also take the Nami classes that are being suggested.

Donna:grouphug:

Thank you everyone! I feel a lot better after reading through these. Leaving the house and taking my valuables with me sounds like a good solution.

To the people who asked, my niece sees a therapist and psychiatrist once a month (which should probably be upped to 2-3 times a month for the therapist), but I don't see a counselor of any kind. I'll looked into the Nami and their classes and the book Jasper and Mari mentioned. I don't think my niece has any emergency medications she could take. From my understanding, the only medications she has are Abilify and concerta. She's been diagnosed with things in the past- ADD, ADHD, ODD, and finally bipolar disorder.

I'm not sure if her tantrum counts as manic or not. She was fairly calm until she realized when knew she was lying, then everything escalated, and by the end she fell asleep on the couch.... Now that I've typed that out, it does sound fairly manic. I'll look into the states laws about leaving children alone, too. I live in Kansas, so our laws on that might be different.

The poor kid also has to deal with the fact that her mom sent her away , for whatever reason, that's a double whammy along with the other issues.:(

It might be good for both you and your mom to also read some books on dealing with these things, so you can get some ideas on how to help this girl thru the abandonment issues.

Whoops, don't know how that post was submitted twice. Sorry about that guys. And ironically, her mother sent to live with us while she went to school. Long story short, her other grandmother has never liked living her, which I now understand. So when my sister-in-law moved back in with her mother to go to school, she told her either my niece leaves or they all leave. That's when she called my mom. It's been hard on everyone, I guess. My mother's read more on these issues than I have. I definitely have some studying to do.

Hi,

I missed this the first time through.

Why is she getting Concerta when her moods are not controlled? ?? :mad: ?? Usually psyhciatrists first try to stabilize the moods. Only secondly they try to work on the ADHD - type behavior.
This is how it works with adults anyway. I know that children are different.
Still, I might question why she is on Concerta. Getting her off it might solve parts of her problems.


Is she seeing a pediatric psychiatrist who specializes in young patients with bipolar?


You should get much more help from the school than you are getting. As a child with bipolar, she is supposed to get accommodations at school that make it easier her to be successful. Probably school is stressful for her, making things at home harder for her too.

Ask her psychiatrist if she can have some emergency medicine. Sometimes those kinds of medications can take 45 minutes to an hour. Anyway, talk to the psychiatrist.

I am concerned that the child "forgets" to take her medicine some days. She's 10. This should not happen. Work this out with a therapist and a psychiatrist.

Alsot, take anything valuable out of the house. Put it in a bank box or somewhere else safe so that you are not concerned about stuff getting stolen and you can focus on the child.

Some of the things you describe are behaviors. Determining what is bipolar and what comes from somewhere else will be useful if her health care team can figure that out. Sometimes they can't figure that out until the child is much older.

Please let her therapist and psychiatrist know how bad things are. Write things down to bring with you to the appointments. Sometimes the healthcare team can be pushed to come up with better ideas / better plan.

Find a social worker who can connect the 10 year old and the rest of the family to special services in your town and state.

M

Question: After these tantrums does she usually sleep for long periods?

Question: Does she tell you she doesn't remember doing the behaviour
(hitting,kicking,throwing.) Things like this in or around the behaviour?

And really looks very surprised when you call her on it. Even to the point
you think she is a good actress? I have a reason for these questions.


Next she definately needs to see the therapist more often. And if the
ADHD was diagnosed before the bi-polar and from what you have
said. I'm guessing it was. Then I'm going to guess they started treating
it thinking that was the main problem.

So then when the other things came to be they started new meds.

Is the concerta working for school? If not then its worth thinking about
taking it away, and not starting another.

But in cases of children that they find a ADHD med that is working with
this kind of situation. And school is somewhat more manageable. Its
usually left in place. This at least is my experience.

But just so you know. Its a federal law, that they can't make you medicate
her to go to school.

And I can help find you a Parent Center in Kansas. And as a Aunt you can
call, and be the one that helps your Mom. Even if your mom is the legal
guardian.


Donna:grouphug:

I agree with Mari about the Concerta (methylphenidate)

This can cause huge meltdown, withdrawal behaviors when the drug wears off, in the evening! Violence in some cases!

I would see if a medication change/adjustment could help in this situation. That seems very serious to me. My son was on Ritalin (methylphenidate) for 5 years and I know first hand how he "lost" it occasionally. We eventually controlled the ADHD with natural interventions.

I think she was put on Concerta to help with her ADHD, and it has helped with her concentration in school, from what I know.

For the first question, most of her worst tantrums take place at night; so I don't know if she falls asleep because of the tantrum or because she's already tired. When she does throw a tantrum during the day, she usually leaves the house or hides in her room afterwards, which is followed by a call/trip to her friends for venting, but she doesn't fall asleep.

For the second question, when she's caught in a lie, she normally blames a friend or tries to convince us we don't remember the event correctly. For example, she stole a grey shirt of mine, lost it, and when asked where it went, she denied taking it. She went into the bedroom and grabbed another grey shirt, saying that was the one she took to school. Even when she had her tantrum later that day (after my mother punished her for stealing), she continued to deny what happened and spent the whole evening yelling at us for accusing her of something she says she didn't do. When my mother found my shirt in the back seat of the car the next day, her explanation was that my mother must have brought the shirt to the car with her. That's how things generally go when she gets caught doing something wrong. She's never claimed not to remember something, just made up stories about what happened.

My mother's concerned about adjusting my niece's medications too much due to her weight. The psychiatrist wanted to increase one of her medications (I've forgotten which one) and my mother was hesitant about it.

HI,
Start keeping daily notes of
1 meds
2 behaviors
3 sleep

Ask the psychiatrist to take her off the Concerta for two weeks. She might not need it. More importantly, it might be causing the melt downs.

It's not useful to try to push her about a lie, make her tell her the truth, . . . these are the kinds of things you can learn in therapy and in nami.org

I don't understand why your mother would say "no" to medication because of weight. The psychiatrist can perhaps try a different medication.
Drastically lower the carbs and junk in the house - - - pasta, pizza, bread, chips, potatoes, . . . . fried foods, . . .sweets
These foods are generally bad for people. They can be particularly bad for children with mood swings.


M

How are things going now.

Let us know.

Donna:grouphug::hug:

Ah, I'm sorry guys! You've all given such wonderful advice that I haven't had a chance to reply to. In January, I started job-hunting more aggressively. So, I was distracted with resume workshops and job interviews. That added onto the usual drama with my niece meant less time for things online.

Anyway, a lot has happened since 2012 started. The big thing, though: my niece moved to Texas to live with her mother and sister a few weeks ago. Things were going okay for a while, but the other day, I discovered she took my iPod and camera with her when she left. The other things she stole were small- a shirt, some of my food- I'm used to that. But now she's taken something I can't afford to replace, at least not until I get a job. We called her mother and described both things to her, she found the camera right away, but the iPod's still missing. I'm assuming she gave my niece a speaking to because about 20 minutes later my niece called us back to yell at my mother (we've never been particularly close, she'll lash out at my mother when she's made at me.) My mother told me she said something along the lines of "I can't believe you told on me" before my mother got in an argument with her. Nothing about how she stole something; in fact, she insisted she got the camera from a friend, although the friend's name changed each time she told the story.

What frustrates me more than the stealing (which makes me feel angry and betrayed all on its own) is the lying about it. I think that's the main reason why I felt so angry when she lived with us. It was that she'd do these things, lie, and then act like we're the enemy for being mad at her and punishing her. She spun things so that she was always the victim like that. I guess it's a good thing my niece isn't here when I'm this angry, but I don't feel much better. When I get furious like this, I feel physically drained.

From what I know, she's still on the Concerta and Abilify regimen. She's also taken to stealing from her older sister. I know it must frustrate her as much as it frustrated me. I do wonder if my niece has something else on top of BP, since I haven't read anything that suggest stealing is a symptom of BP. We never got a chance to discuss it in therapy, and I don't think they've found a new therapist in Texas yet. She was diagnosed with ODD at one point, but I don't know if she is still being treated for that.

Hi,

Have you found a therapist?

You can learn techniques that help you deal with this.

My bet is that the niece has something else instead of or in addition to Bipolar.

M

I haven't. Unfortunately, I'm still unemployed and don't have the money for health insurance. It's been quite a while since I've seen a therapist. In the back of my mind, I've known that I should see someone and talk about this, but until I get a job, I don't think that will happen.

Hopefully my niece will see a different therapist in Texas who may be able to see if there are any disorders in addition to BP or if she was wrongly diagnosed to begin with.

Hi gesturepen
 

Welcome to Neuro Talk. If you want therapy, don't be afraid to go to your county health department. They can often give referrals to therapists who treat according to your means. There are also mental health clinics that offer this same service. Get on line in your community, and I do believe even though you don't have insurance that you can still get some council. I wish you all the best. ginnie