Detoxing oral meds after implant?
 

I am strongly considering having a pain pump implanted. *I am on opioids for pain control. *Can someone explain to me the process of weaning off the oral meds when you have a pain pump implanted. Did you have the pump implanted and *then* wean yourself off the morphine? *Or how else does detoxing off your oral meds work?

Thanks for any insights...

Mage Charlie*

good question

Hello Mage Charlie!
 

Welcome to NT! So glad you found us!
That absolutely IS a good question. Hopefully some of our other pumpers will see this and give input.
The rest of us have SCS's. I'm not sure how they make the medication transition, but I'm pretty sure they would make it as easy for you as possible. There's probably a way they 'overlap' the meds while getting the pump, so you don't suffer withdrawal.

As far as detoxing off meds, Mark56 will have real good insight on that to help you. I hope you stick around so we know how this unfolds for you. I'd like to know more about pain pump experiences. The members who actively posted haven't been here in awhile, but they loved theirs. Maybe the fact that they don't post much anymore means that they have no need for a pain forum if they are doing well with their pumps.

It's sure great to have you!

Rae
:grouphug:

Hey Mage!!
 

Weaning off.... well, not being a pumper, I was prescribed meds regarding withdrawal from opiates, regarding sleep, regarding nausea, regarding the bowel tract because the opiates lock up digestion. This was going on in July-September 2010 on my thread long about here http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread117854-25.html

BUT, then I was withdrawing from the entire suite of pain meds.... all of them, and not going to a pump filled with pain meds. Seems to me your withdrawal will still be a gradual titration thing so small steps down and small steps up on the pump ultimately bring you to full pump use. Since you will be trading opiates for opiates, maybe you will have no nausea, no bowel issues, no variance in your sleep pattern...... as for me, the danger was beyond all of those issues to DEPRESSION, ACUTE onset DEPRESSION. I had to go start posting on the survivors of suicide threads because the deep dark hole was so deep, so dark, so withdrawn....... so....... tempting.

WATCH IT!!! Gotta be on the heads up especially related to potential withdrawal crash. I crashed.

CARE in the process. Ask lots of questions. Have yourself monitored, significant other/spouse/parent, someone in charge seeing to your state of mental health as you withdraw...... a gate keeper person who knows you and keeps watch over your wellbeing day by day. My wife did this, in league with my lawyer and my doc.

False scare not intended, but this was my reality if you read into October.

Prayin for ya,
Mark56:grouphug:

Gosh Mark, how I can relate to that .. My withdrawal from Oxycodone last year was like going to hell and back and I still suffer panic attacks .

thank you for the welcome
 

Hi folks,

Thanks for the kind welcome. My paindoc said that they normally wean people off the oral mere after putting the pump in. But he also said the pump does work very well while you're still on morals.

I have been on opioids for pain since 2003. So I imagine I have some weaning to do.

Damn but I hope this thing works for me. I sm IN TOO much pain and I want my brain back! Friggin drugs cost me my job in IT cause I couldn't think sharply enough on the drugs.

The pump could solve that issue.

Thanks again for the welcome!

Mage

Mage Seize and Hold Dearly to that Thought
 

Pain cost me one of the highest paying careers in law in the country years ago and it was this God inspired, blessed SCS coupled with full withdrawal from pain management meds which again made me marketable. I am now employed full time as an executive and Gen Counsel for an up and coming company, having a wonderful time using my skills once again...... not to mention bringing a second income into our family which is enabling us to once again purchase a home for our family and family business.

I feel blessed. You can too with your precisely delivered and measured pump device. Seize that goal, hold onto the brass ring for all you are worth, and give it a go to regain career, self esteem, means of support. It is well worth it AND Those Success Stories are much needed in this forum.

Hoping and praying the best for you,
Mark56:grouphug:

thanks!!!
 

Thanks, Mark!

I am sincerely glad you refound your brain and were able to again use your God-given talents! Good for you!!!!

And thanks for the prayers. Me and my family need them fright now.

MC

This
 

This beautiful synchronicity of people who need to reach out in outreach for the benefit not only of others but also for their wellbeing is EXACTLY what makes this place tick. Not a well oiled machine, this, rather a huge heart beating with the pulsing interaction of all who here reveal their fears, their pain, their joys, their grief, their goals, their failures, the disappointments in reliance on humankind which is sometimes not so kind.

This place beats with the pulse of shared love and care,
You have your finger on the pulse, and your participation makes it stronger,
Wow,
Mark56:grouphug:

Mark, replying so I can look this info up in the future (regarding your withdrawal). This is of great interest to me. I have hope for the future, at sometime, getting off all these narcotics. Of course, I know the weening, etc., but interested in how you accomplished this. I know your SCS was of great help; but again interested in the process.

Thanks for all you do for this site.
God is with you.

(Ger)

Thank you Ger
 

God shields and comforts us all, and it is such a blessed comfort to have the attention of the great I AM.

May you ultimately achieve your goal of withdrawal. It reopens the eye of your mind with great clarity to all that is around. Unfogged, I have striven greatly to make use of each of these moments to help others realize their 17 second miracle. My cup of joy runs over continuously!

Praying for you in this Ger,
Mark56:hug::grouphug:

hello mage charlie
 

I just wanted to say hello and welcome you like so many have already. I hope there are many people who will be able to answer some of your questions about the pain pump. I wish you all the best. You will meet alot of compassionate folks here. Go for as much relief as you can. I wish you all the best. ginnie

Mark,
 

I appreciate the prayers. I do not feel I am a good candidate for the SCS. The one trial did not sit too well with me. Plus, I just don't feel up to anymore surgery. Not sure how to accomplish withdrawal pain and the pain of what is under all these narcotics. As I have read bits and pieces, during the past 6 months, of the road you have travelled. I marvel at what your Trust in God has brought you.

My pain nearly gone.
 

I was researching the electric stimulator last month. It showed where they insert 2 wires in your spine area to break up the pain signal to your brain.
I thought it is only skin deep to my spine. Maybe my tens unit would work.
My pain for the last year was 8 and 10 all the time. I rtake 200mg. morphine.

Ten days ago i started putting the pads on each side of my spine down near my crack. I did twice a day and on the fifth day when i awoke my pain was 2 or 3. I am still doing this twice a day and still no pain.

I have been so happy but afraid to tell any one yet thinking it might come back. If anyone has a TENS UNIT try it.

I pray this will work for all of us.

GEORGE

Dear Ger, and George
 

Ger I am feeling sadness you are not one who can find peace with SCS, but then we are told the Trial is administered for just that reason. Witness Sandy whose medical team did a one up process of implanting due to difficult mechanical issues with her spine, only to have it seem to be on the brink of not working.....

Pain..... how I wish I could understand pain so much better than I do, because its well meant indication of acute conditions causing bodily harm is SO FAR OUT OF THE BALLPARK where chronic pain is at issue. This, I believe, is the reason my pain management specialist is so thrilled, so happy to see me when I appear for a follow up appointment, because I live as a rare enough success. Someone who brings encouragement for my brilliant doctor who so tries to aid people suffering chronic pain. It was he who asked I write the article for the med journal. [written and unpublished].

Reality and truth in the chronic pain management world is that SCS never wipes away all pain. I am convinced while it fools my brain into non-recognition of the signals, those signals are nevertheless generated; hence, the reason I have found my supply of daily energy only goes SO FAR. I acknowledge full awareness the SCS is only a pain manager distinct from meds, perhaps in most cases in addition to meds.

You, dear soul, hope without SCS to wean even so from the opiates. We share the same goal albeit on a different time line. My withdrawal was at once horrible and difficult followed by rapid onset depression, but you know this. Then I emerged gleeful the SCS managed pain well enough to exist without pills or drops or shots. My sister-in-law, Terri, of whom I have written on the RSD forum lives ingesting more than the therapeutic maximum morphine dosage for her doc knows this is the only means by which she can control both real and phantom amputation pain.

God is dearly close to each of Terri and me. This is how we cope and it is so wonderful all we had to do was reach out for He was always near. Some will scoff at my presentation thus, but I can only write from my heart, this experience, my subjective knowledge of both physical and emotional pain of the chronic sufferer.

So GER you are an incredible trusting soul to endeavor withdrawal from pain management meds absent another means to manage your pain. All I have to offer are my prayers and my words of encouragement and comfort. They will always be at your side. This is my mission, my ministry now, to help others however I can, and you are part of my family in pain. May you be well in all ways.

George- if you have found using a Tens, or, as I have in reserve because I used it daily before surgery- an Interferential Neuro Stimulator [far larger than the usual tens boxes which are about the size of a pack of cigarettes (no, I do not smoke), while my INS is about the size of a 250 page paperback novel]. I was told my INS is basically a Tens on steroids, and I believe it having used both. Mine was used in a criss-cross fashion at the low lumbar area, around the sacrum, just above the crack you mention. I used it and used it and used it, leading my doc to believe I might be a good candidate for SCS. I feel blessed both by God and man that the SCS has worked so well for me.

As for you, George, may your Tens usage thus continue to provide all you need. Surgery is not a kind or easy experience. I have experienced 29 since my 2005 auto wreck, and I have little desire to return to an OR as the object of scalpel wielding. So, I will pray for you George that all will be well in your pain management, and would you please pray my SCS will last as long as I live so I never have to go into surgery again?

My Prayers are with both of you, my friends,
Mark56:hug::hug::grouphug:

Mark, I do so believe the strong mind that God has so blessed you with is a very important part of your success. Without that belief, I could not even give this consideration a thought. God's time and mine combined and the Grace to "let go" and Trust in Him. I have, as yet to "let go". Know you are mentioned by name in my prayers, that God will continue Blessing you with the Trust you have given Him.

By the Grace of God and much prayer, next month will be 15 years since I last had a cigarette. I had smoked 2 - 2 1/2 pks. a day for over 25 years.

Currently I am on a total of 240 mg's Oxycotin ER a day, as well as 7.5 mg Percocet 3 to 4 times a day for breakthru pain. Also, nightly, Ambien CR 12.5mg's. Much prayer and Trust is indeed needed.

(Ger)

Prayer you do have
 

From me, from all of us Ger, you receive and shall receive prayer!

You conquered cigarettes!! For so long! You have indeed been blessed by such a "breath of fresh air!" In this, you, too, also indicate a strong mind dedicated to God! I am thrilled for you He is such a strong part of your life as well!

Prayin,
Mark56:hug::grouphug:

Hello, am thinking about you gerry
 

I am sorry the SCS doesn't do much for you. I also have a question maybe you know about medications. What is the difference between percocet and oxycontin.? I was prescribe a low dose of percocet, but substitue oxycontin is on the lable. Is there a difference? ginnie

I pray for everyone who have this desease.
 

Thank you MARK for your comments and prayers. Praying for each other is a powerful medicine that works and does not cost a penny.

Can someone duplicate my post on here to the other PN forum.


Thank you GEORGE

Thank you George
 

Here is a quick and simple, you can do it cheer! Just highlight and copy the test you have written by placing the cursor at the upper left hand corner of your text, press down on the shift key as you move the cursor to the end of the text you want to copy, release the shift and cursor keys at once, and you will notice the highlighted text in a blue background box. click your right mouse button once to open the drop down menu and select Copy....... then go to your desired place on the PN forum, open the desired thread, click on reply in that thread to open a new dialogue box, provide a title in the Title Box, then click in the message area, just any old place with a good right click, reopening the drop down menu and click on Paste, ET VOILA' you will have just succeeded accomplishing your goal!!

Ready.... Set.....Go!

Best,
Mark56:)

Hi Mark
 

Just read the post about how to drop down a menu and all. Oh boy do I have a lot to learn! ginnie

Tryin to make it easier
 

Not really Ginnie- Ijust followed those steps and brought you into my post right here-

Just read the post about how to drop down a menu and all. Oh boy do I have a lot to learn! ginnie

Give it a try and see if it works for you. It should do just fine. One more point for you on computer awareness, then you are off and flying.... pretty soon putting those pretty, and interesting, and often funny rib ticklers into posts like Rae does!

Yep!
Mark56:hug:

Re: will try
 

[Half time, will try on the PC to do it!. I think I get thrown off by the number of steps in a process. I will copy the post off to printer, and read it step by step. I am determined to learn! ginnie

Ginnie
 

By following the directions Mark gave on the copy/paste technique, you will be able to show new members how to get to the other forums by posting the links to the other forums!

:grouphug:

Hi George!
 

Just wanted to say thank you for sharing this! I'm so glad this works for you! I hope it lasts and gives you longterm decrease in your pain

Rae
:grouphug:

Percocet
 

Ginnie,

The Oxycotin ER is given as a time release so you always have some in your system on a schedule. The Percoet is a form of Oxycotin, in a smaller dose which is all at one time., i.e., 5mg, usually given with some amount of Tylelnol added. Mine also says Oxycodone (generic for Percocet) I take the 7.5mg-325. The 325 stands for the amount of tylenol. This dose is called breakthru because it is releasing the ingredients all at once time. This is to help, when the dose of regular pain med, whether, Oxycotin, Morphine is not enough and you have a sudden onset of extra pain.

It helps eleviate the pain quickly; but does not last as long and does not come in a high amount of mg's. The Oxycotin and Morphine are very similiar. My doctor would use either the Oxycotin or Morphine for me. I have had some hallunications some time back with the Morphine. It did not help with the pain; but saw bugs crawling on the ceiling which I knew were not there. So I told my doctor that I would rather not be prescribed the Morphine. This happened when I had been given some Morphine after appencix removal.

Also, the Oxycotin ER comes in much higher doses and is what the addicts are crushing so the can get the hit of whatever; 20mgs -30mg-40mg and up to 80mg. When crushed they can get the dose which is quite dangerous all at once. .Oxycotin manufacturers have come out with a coating for the Oxycotin to prevent the breakage into a powder form. But, they usually will find a way around these coatings., etc. This is the reason so much attention has been given in the press regarding the Oxycotin. Unfortunately, the addicts make it difficult for people who need this for pain.

@ Mark 56,
 

Mark, How wonderful that you were able to experience restoration. I am not sure what law you practice, but is it possible you could lend support/guidance to those whose insurances deny treatment as experimental/not covered? I lost a friend that way - she shut down after the first rejection letter. Is there no "real" ombudman/champion for the individual when it comes to insurance? (I know, I read the Rainmaker...)

Hi, and thank you
 

Hi, and thanks for your response about the different medications. I am taking the exact thing you are for breakthrough pain. I am allowed up to 4 per day, but I am keeping to just one. If I have to walk a distance, or I can't sleep at night because of the pain, that is when I take it. I have become very sad over my inability to walk. My ankles are shot, basically. My pain doctor is not overly pleased that I needed more medication. In fact I went in twice to ask him. I wound up going to my PCP for intervention on my behalf. I am being forced to do a surgery I really do not want to do. I am kind of in a stuck situation. Through all the spinal and ankle problems he seems to want to go down in mediation, and I would be grateful just to stay where I am. If I go down anymore I will be in a wheel chair. ginnie

Thank you LNCamp
 

The only real answer to your question right this moment is the state governmental insurance department which provides oversight in the matter of insurance failing to live up to its language of the policy with an "experimental treatment" exclusion of claim. Such office in my home state is not bashful about taking on an insuror oh so willing to accept premium dollars only never to pay a righteous claim. Other methods include fighting through litigation if the client presents a fair winnable chance througgh their facts, but the analogy of being a hair on a gnat taking a bite in the hide of an elephant rump is reasonable in commenting on that approach.

I have a wide ranging litany of experiences as General Counsel to corporations. It does not sound glamorous or especially useful when compared against the very compelling importance of the questions you present, but I have found such a place of servanthood through the career which propelled my family through life once, then lapsing for about seven years due to the wreck, and now renewed again with my re-employment.

Many blessings and prayers upon you and the family of the friend whom you lost thusly LN,
Caring deeply,
Mark56:grouphug:

Ginnie,

Are you sure your label says Oxycontin? I'll bet it says oxycodone w/APAP 5/325. There are other ratios as well - 7.5/325, 10/325. There used to be higher APAP/acetaminophen ratios, but I'm not sure now that the daily maximum for acetaminophen has been reduced.

The active ingredient in both Oxycontin and Percocet is oxycodone. Oxycodone is prescribed by itself (sometimes called IR for Immediate Release), combined with acetaminophen (Tylenol) under the trade name Percocet, and in a continuous release formulation called Oxycontin (the Oxy part comes from oxycodone - the contin part stands for "continuous".

There was a time a few years ago when it was thought that the patent had expired on Oxycontin, and it was sold generically as oxycodone CR (continuous release), but Oxycontin CR is redundant. The mfr. (Purdue) went to court and had the patent date extended, so now the only continuous release form available legally in the US is brand-name Oxycontin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxycodone

I know it's confusing, and I don't often get picky about posts, but in the case of medications, I think it's important to be clear and precise. Often just a letter or two difference can mean a lot. For example, some people misspell Oxcontin as oxycotin. However there's another substance - a hormone - called oxytocin. There are more and more cases of misspellings of medications causing serious problems for patients:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/11/he...ted=all&src=pm

One convention that helps some is that brand-names are/should be capitalized, whereas generic names are not (as above).

Hope this helps,

Doc

Thanks Doc
 

Yes you are right. I did get them confused. I was given percocet, and what the label does say is oxycodone/acetamineophen 10/325 TB. Is this fast acting or time released, it didn't say? When the drugist changes the script to generics is when I get more confused. I have this med for the pain my foot and joint. I am trying NOT to take any during the day, and have only taken enough to get me to the appt. or where I have to be with walking.
I am allowed 4 per day. I will not be doing that. I also am having a delima in what to do Doc. In fact I don't know what to do at all.
My ankles are shot, I won't qualify for ankle replacement due to this being a dejenerative problem. My toe joint is also shot and in pain. Ball of foot joint. They want to replace the toe joint, but the rest of the foot is not going to get any better. It is like fixing the door lock and the key hole is missing. I am not sure doing this surgery will do me any good in the long run. Sitting around here doing nothing isn't eithor getting me on my feet. Both conditions are only going to go one way, degenerate. The ankle canot be fixed only the toe. I don't know what to do. I it is a month or more recovery, and I have legal things happening in my life that may pop up and need to be taken care of at any time. I have an agency working to get me pro-bono. I have to take whatever slot they give me. If I fail to take what they offer and when, I loose a 10 year struggle out of my family trust and a family who abuses me.
I am in limbo, eithor way. Any ideas? The legal agency said I was on top of the list, and had me seek a lawyer this week that didn't do my kind of litigation. This is coming up I think sooner than later. If I do nothing with my physical body, it will be in a wheelchair for me. I am having a terrible time in this decision. ginnie

Thanks Dr. Smith,
 

I think you gave an excellent explanation.

I myself am on Oxycontin 60MG (mfg, Purdue) every 6 hrs for a total of 240mg's daily and Oxycodone/APAP 7.5 - 325mg tablets (mfg. Watson) (generic for Percocet 7.5-325 tablets) up to 4 a day for breakthru pain. Did not realize the "contin" meant continuous. Just looking over my bottles while responding to your post.

Also noticed, I frequently write Oxycotin omitting the "n". I should be and will from now on write Oxycontin. There; the "n" is included in the spelling as my bottle states.

Thanks again,

(Gerry)

It's fast-acting. "TB" probably stands for "tablet" (although it should be TAB) so that you know what it should look like (vs. capsule).

That may not be wise. You should take it earlier rather than later, when pain begins.
Also, when you wait until the pain is unbearable, the medication won't work as fast, or as well, and you may need more to achieve the same analgesia. Please, take it as directed by your doctor.

Your ankle may be degenerative, but that could still take many more years.

Your big toe and ball of foot joint are necessary in keeping balance when you walk. They may not be able to fix your ankle right now, but it may come down to not being able to walk at all or needing a cane, crutches, walker, or wheelchair. This, of course, is up to you, but I would think you'd want to keep walking - even with a little difficulty - rather than not at all, to avoid possible PAD, atrophy, and/or other complications.

Ask your doctor about this (and maybe his nurse?) They may have some ideas about other folks you could ask (about the toe/ankle matter).

Have you tried any Elder Law support groups?

Doc

Hi Gerry,

No biggie; no offense, and I wasn't trying to single you out. I make plenty of mistakes/typos, and I'm not so pedantic about spelling and grammar - my own is abominable at times :o, but as I said, with meds... Someone here on NT once made a comment (paraphrasing from memory here) that since we're talking about medical/technical matters on this site, we should try to be accurate - this can be complex/daunting stuff. If you read the links, there's a lot of confusion even between the professionals who should know better, and that's causing people harm. When I was looking for some information for the previous response on taking meds on schedule, I found a medication information sheet from a pharmacy that spelled it wrong! :eek:

Doc

Hi Dr. Smith
 

I know you are right, that I should take more of my medication. However I have a law suit in the works with my family. I will loose my house if I do not address this situation while a pro-Bono Attorney is willing to listen and help. You only get a certain amount of time to reply. In the meantime, The ball of the foot is already attrophied. I am questioning if I want the surgery, because it will not just be this joint. ALL my joints are involved withthis partydon't want to become the bionic woman! The ankles are already bad enough to put me in a wheel chair, and I don't qualifyfor the ankle replacement program as my problem is degenerative in nature. My question is do I ever get to say no to more surgery? How many joints are they going to require me to fix and replace before I get to say no more? My hands arn't in good shape, and neithor is my neck. I am having trouble with C1-2 and T1-2
above and below my surgery at C3-7. The pain specialist wants me to get this joint replaced. I don't think he will give me enough medication to see my court date come up. I am on top of the list right now. That is why I am trying to stretch this medication out, and not use it as much. He only gave enough for a month, in which he expects me to do this surgery. I can't do both at once. I also as I said have second thoughts about going forward. The foot doctor said a month ago, he would schedule me in, after two calls of inquiry, he still has not had his office contact me anyway. I have never had so much trouble all at the same time either. Two other medical problems are there also. My barretts esphogus is not under control regarding the stomach acid. All the stress in my life caused this. I am fighting to get a medication from Humanna with appeals for the medication I need. I am prolapsying too. Right now I think this is more than I can handle. I need to keep a roof over my head first. I would like to take the medication as prescribed, but I don't think the doctor will let me postpone as I need to. I don't know what to do. ginnie

Dr. Smith
 

No offense taken. I thought you did a great job of explaining.
Thanks again,
(Gerry)

Still prayin for you Ginnie
 

:hug:There are miracles around us just as there are blessings. I am praying for you Ginnie.
Mark56:hug:

I agree Gerry
 

Ger-
Dr Smith works quite hard to provide links and information for us..... and I still think of this little kid Will Robinson and Zachary Smith with his "Oh, the pain, THE PAIN!"

Chuckle,
Mark56:grouphug:

Hi Mark
 

I am very frightened as you could see from my post. I don't know what to do. I am afraid to take more pain meds. for fear of the withdral after. also I only have enough for a month. My pain doctor wants me to do a surgery I am not sure I should do. I don't want to keep replaceing joints as they go out. Also I have other medical issues that are piling up. I cry alot now, even though I try to be supportive of others. I could litterlly spend the next year in the hospital addressing all that is wrong with me. Humpty dumpty is tired and not wanting to pick up the pieces. I hate having to deal with my legal issues as well. I do need prayers, and advise. ginnie

Elder law
 

Hi Dr Smith. I went to my state Rep. Jim Boyd last year. he put me in touch with this particular acency for elder help. However, it has already take 6 months just for one lawyer to be in contact with me. He couldn't do my kind of litigation. Do you or anyone know of any other agiencies I could go o. I have to reslove my legal issues, or loose my home. I am being abused by parts of my family over this issue. Help needed for direction. This agency I am going to has me at the top of the list now, but no time frame in which I can make any plans of my own, for surgery for example. ginnie