Question on magnesium content
 

I take a multi-mineral daily. I think it is a good product, but I question the type of magnesium listed. It is ambiguous to me. It lists the following:

Magnesium (as magnesium oxide, taurinate, citrate, alpha-ketoglutarate, aspartate)† 500 mg

† Country Life always labels minerals in elemental weight.

I know magnesium oxide is not abosrbed well in the human body. I wonder what the distribution is bewteen the different types. Has anyone run into this before? Does the dosage seem correct for daily use? Any thoughts are appreciated.

FYI- here is a link of the product for further reference

http://www.iherb.com/Country-Life-To...&utm_medium=pf

Thanks!

I would call them up.

In the past I used to verify mixtures like this on the phone.

In both instances the customer service person could not answer the question. Whenever oxide is in there, assume that is the
dominant version. It is very inexpensive and typically I think
those others are listed just to look impressive!

Country Life:
http://www.country-life.com/category.cfm?Category=9

I will be very surprised if they give you a breakdown on them.
Giving elemental is deceiving...because elemental oxide is quite high --about 40% But it is not bioAVAILable in the body.

I recommend reading Dr. Carolyn Dean's book on Magnesium before buying anything. It's too important a mineral to make mistakes on type and dosage.

Bath-absorbed Mg is the most powerful Mg I've ever found. I would never rely on a supplement for all the Mg I need.

Thanks to both of you for the information. I will look into other options for magnesium. I like the multi-mineral to cover a braod range of needs, but this one ingredienr is an issue.

Centrum Senior or Costco's generic for it are both very good
mineral supplements.

The Costco brand for Centrum Senior was #1 rated from Consumer Reports recently. Both are Iron free. That is important for older females and for males especially.

That is what we use.

I've been using a strict multi-mineral combined with separate vitamins and a B complex on a daily basis .

I do this because it seems really tough to find the near perfect multi-vitamin/mineral out there with all of the optimum ingredients and dosages contained within.

I like the natural forms of vitamin E ( gamma). Also, B complex with Pyridoxal-5 Phosphate and other active forms of vitamin B. D3 of course.

Magnesium was something I took for granted until reading the posts here on Neurotalk. I ordered Dr. Carolyn Dean's book on Magnesium. Looks like it has some very good reviews.

In the meantime Douglas labs has what appears to be a good multi-mineral. I plan on ordering one.

Magnesium listed is (as magnesium aspartate and magnesium amino acid chelate) 400 mg

Here is the product itself:

http://www.iherb.com/Douglas-Laborat...les/39148?at=0

Maybe a bit pricey, but ingredients appear to be of quality. Manufacturer is reputable as well. Six pills a day seems a bit crazy!

Keep in mind that aspartate.... will stimulate the NMDA receptor for pain. This aspartic acid in Nutrasweet is thought to be the culprit in the headaches people commonly get from it.

The NMDA receptor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NMDA_receptor

Because NMDA antagonists work for PN pain, I tend to avoid
all aspartic acid or aspartate products for that reason.

It is similar to avoiding MSG, monosodium glutamate. Same reason, for people with chronic pain, MSG will trigger them.

And I agree, it is very difficult to get multivitamin products with a formula YOU need and want. I tend to avoid mixtures and only take
single ones that are the most important. I use the generic multi Senior only occasionally, for that reason.

I'm almost done reading The Magnesium Miracle by Carolyn Dean. What a great book. It provides a lot of information in easy to understand format. I never knew how important this mineral is to our health and well being. I took the 100% RDA and thought that hole was plugged in terms of getting me an adequate amount on a daily basis. Magnesium oxide seems to be used the most and is the least effective. That is where I made a mistake. Not doing the proper research.

Another fascinating aspect of magnesium is the various forms available for us to use. Different types work in ways others do not. I'm trying magnesium malate. Supposedly it is capable of crossing the blood to brain barrier and can help with metal detoxification. I'm hoping it might improve my short term memory! Time will tell.

Cold feet and tingling in my hands are other nagging issues that flare up in a waxing and waning pattern. I'm excited to try this supplement and see if it helps at all.

The book suggests one method (among many) of testing magnesium deficiency by doing an oral clinical trial. Take supplmental magnesium for 1 to 3 months and record changes to physical and mental health. This will be my approach.

I'm hopeful that it will help. I'll report my results in 3 months.

Mrs.D, i bought Epsom Salt today to soak my feet. I hope it helps my feet.

How much epsom salt and warm water to combine to come up with the "potent" combination?

When is the best time to soak one's feet? Is it before bedtime?

Thank you very much for your advice.

If in a small pan...tub... only for the feet. 4 oz is enough or a bit less.

If in a big bathtub, you are going to need 6oz to 8oz in lukewarm water in a bathtub not filled to the top.

Is it best to soak the feet at bedtime?
thank you.

I don't think it matters.

Some find the relaxation from epsom salts nice at night though and helps sleep.

Mrs. D, I soaked my feet today in a warm water with Epsom salt. Good gracious, my feet suddenly were burning! Before I soaked, my feet were painful but not burning.

Is it just my nerves not used to it and trying to adjust? If this is something normal I will soak again tomorrow but if not, I wont try it again.

I know it might have been years ago when you did the Epsom sallt, but would you remember the sensation the first time?

Thank you.

Oh, I still do epsom salts... never have had burning ever.

If you make it too strong, and you have dry skin, the salt could sting I suppose. This is why we should not use HOT water either.
Only warm.

But there have been a very few posters here over time who claimed to have burning.

I used warm water in a medium sized basin. Water was ankle-high and Epsom was 3 oz, skin not dry.

I will try again tom with lesser Epsom. I want this to work:) magnesium is in my "to try" list of supplement. As I read your thread on supplements, my list also becomes longer. I really wanted my thyroid function to stabilize because I want to try ANCAR and R lipoic.

Mrs. D, I tried soaking my feet again in warm water with Epsom salt. For 2 days now, it has not given me the burning feeling like the first time. I am wondering how many times can you soak your feet epsom in a day?

It gives me temporary relief from my feet pain. Although the relief only lasted briefly, but any relief - even how brief it is - is always WELCOME!!!

Thank you Mrs. D!

I only soak when my feet hurt. Maybe once a week.
I used to do it with every bath. But I don't soak in the tub as much because I find it hard to get out! (embarrassing to admit...but my muscles are shot).

I use the magnesium lotion now almost daily, and that takes the
edge off for me.

Thank you Mrs.D. I dont have magnesium lotion at home now. My feet are really hurting. I think the pain in my feet is getting worse. Can I soak more than once a day Mrs.D?

Thank you.

Yes you can. I wouldn't go over twice a day though until you
find out what is causing your feet to increase with pain.
Epsom salts are just for relief of discomfort. If your PAIN is being generated in the spine it will not block that. But magnesium can help with vascular issues (circulation). That is called ischemic pain as opposed to pain generated by inflammation (arthritis), or compressed nerves. I've lost track of your history, other than the thyroid issues. So do pay attention to your worsening feet as a sign that something else may be going on, etc.

Do you have compressive issues? Have you tried Biofreeze?
Lidoderm patches? Do you have increased PN in the hands as well?

Mrs. D,
 

Just noticed this post regarding the Centrum Senion and that it is Iron Free. You say that is important of older females and males. I am 73 and husband 78 and our daily multivitamin has in Bold letters With Iron. It shows 18mg.s Iron = 100%. I did not realize, as we get older Iron is not a good idea. Am I correct in this assumption?

Also noticed your mentioning magnesium is good for circulation. I have edema and Statsis Dermatatis of the feet, ankles and legs. The ankles has many broken blood vessels. I had an ultrasound and there isn't any clotting or serious problems detected because of this. My doctor tells me to elevate my feet and wear compression stockings. I have tried and because of the burning PN in those areas, the sock add terribly to the pain and am unable to keep them on.
For the circulation; what would be a good amount of Magnesuim to take. Currently have a bottle of the Chelated Magnesium 200mg+, but as of yet, have not taken any.
As always, thank you,

(Ger)

Yes, AVOID that iron....not good for men or postmenopausal
females. It can build up in the body.

When little capillaries swell and break that way it can also
be due to poor cell wall integrity in the blood vessels.
These are maintained by essential fatty acids, anti-oxidants,
and Vit C.

Also poor lymphatic drainage, or thick serum from MGUS type problems can cause it.

Swelling in the legs also can signal low B1 (thiamine status).
So Benfotiamine may be an idea for you.
Beri-Beri is not identified in US commonly, but it lurks here anyway.

Thank you as always Mrs. D.

I am not sure about pain generated in the spine - I dont have any pain in my back. As to the vascular issues (circulation), I had a Lower Extremity Doppler (not sure if that was the name of the test), but the purpose is to see if I have good circulation in my leg - the result was normal. I have osteoarthritis, but mostly in my hands and fingers.

What could be the symptoms of compressive issues? I had MRI of the cervical spine and the impressions are:

1. Mild cervical spondylosis, particularly at C-3-C4 where there is an
approximately 2.5 to 3 mm focal central disc herniation, which extends
to the level of hte cord with no mass effect on the cord.
2. Mild ventral extradural defect on C4-C5 from a small posterior disc/
osteophyte complex.

The neuro seems not concerned about the results.

I tried Biofreeze in my osteoarthritis.
Last night, I put Lidoderm in the spots where you suggested : back of the knees, in-steps and at the front of the ankles.

The pain that I feel in my feet is the same I felt before when the first neurologist diagnosed me of Peripheral Neuropathy. Painful soles (like you are stepping on sharp marbles; tired feet/legs, like the feeling when you stand too long but mine is 10x the regular tiredness; sensation of sharp sparks beneath the skin in the ankle areas.

I dont have much problem with my hands except with the pain of the osteoarthritis.

Thank you.

Compressive issues in the foot can be felt if you tap the top of the foot with a hard thing (like the handle of a butter knife or a wooden mixing spoon)...
If you feel zings easily in your toes/foot, some compression is happening around the ankle.
There is also a spot on the inside lower ankle:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinel_sign

Same for the hand. This is called Tinel's sign.

Compression in the spine can be from spurs, herniations, or vertebrae that have collapsed from osteoporosis.

Arthritis can compress nerves in any joint affected. This is from inflammation in general. I have some referral to my feet from my knees, and that is where I will do Lidoderms if they flare up.

Thanks Mrs. D,
 

I am currently using Best Benfotiamine 150mg's twice a day.

For the past three years, to control the swelling/edema, take one 25mg Spironolactone and one 40mg Furosemide daily.

We will definitely get off our daily multi-vitamin that contains Iron. Thank you so much. I had never heard about the iron being a problem for seniors.

(Ger)

Furosemide depletes thiamine and magnesium big time.

So yes, continue with the Benfotiamine. I don't see a depletion for spironolactone in the reference I use, however.

Thank you so much Mrs. D!

I tried this morning the tapping of my front feet, there was no zings..

When compression happens in the spine by spurs, herniations, or vertebrae - is the pain at the back or does it have a referral to the feet?

Again, thank you.

Sometimes there is pain where the arthritis is located. Sometimes not. It depends on alot on mechanical factors.
Also some nerve paths vary from person to person genetically.
This is something I learned fairly recently while reading a medical acupuncture site. So if someone has a nerve running close to an inflamed area in a joint, they may have compressive pain from that. I only get mine in the right knee, for example.

In regards to Tinel's sign, I have it in both feet. Hence, I have to tie shoes very carefully over that area, and avoid sandals that hit that area as well. Otherwise my feet will go numb. This I believe is a hold over from my years of untreated hypothyroid.

Thank you so much Mrs. D!
I also remember you have your scar on your front foot that contributes to your feet discomfort.

When you wrote: "....hold over from years of untreated hypothyroid", what do you mean by that? Does it mean that you were not diagnosed, therefore, did not take medicine; or, you were taking medicine but did not find the appropriate brand/dosage that works for you?

How long was the "over the years of untreated hypo" for you? I had my total thyroidectomy in 2007. It took 8-9 months to stabilize my thyroid function. It was at .75mcg/Synthroid that i got it stabilized. I dont know what happened in between because I seldom get my thyroid function tested until May 2010 which was abnormal, then June 2010 - normal, then November 2011 - abnormal - till my last test of March 3, 2011 which was hyperactive. When I asked the neurologist if the hypothyroidism may be the cause of the neuropathy, he answered me that when a hypothyroidism is the cause, once its treated, the neuropathy symptoms should improve. My symptoms are not improving, and I think, its getting worse, specially in my feet.

Thank you Mrs. D for "listening" to my woes.

I had hypo I think since my pregnancy. At 34. I wasn't diagnosed until a decade later, because my blood work was confusing, and only a radio uptake scan showed a damaged gland.

My internist thinks I had it longer however.
I don't think treatment for thyroid is perfect...it is close, but the human body is very complicated and highly balanced and humans just cannot duplicate the thyroid actions well.

At least I don't have the autoantibodies, and my last test was negative for them (in Dec.). Some people do swing up and down and that may signal Hashimoto's. But then I am not an expert on this-- only just another cryptic case that eluded detection!

By the time I got Synthroid, my feet were pretty numb and my hands were moderate. It took a year, but my feet did wake up, only not 100%. I'd say I have about 10% residual numbness in the tips of 2 toes on each foot (next to the big toe). I also have arthritis and broken sesamoid bones, and the terrible scar, which now throbs some days. That took 50 yrs to manifest! It is like a blast from the past, that scar, now! :mad: This scar is S shaped, and covers 80% of the instep. It had a zillion small stitches from the plastic surgeon who did not graft skin to cover the hole left from removing the tumor, but pulled the skin over to cover instead. Said it would heal better. It was a LONG recovery I remember! I was just a 12 yr old then with lots of restrictions etc. :rolleyes: It is a difficult place to fix. The magnesium lotion stops it from throbbing which seems to happen when I go to bed at night. During the day it stings some depending on the shoe I might have on. Last 3 days that foot has been swelling again. sigh.

Thank you for sharing with me your thyroid related h ealth issue. I am glad that you have partially "fixed" the numbness in your feet. I am also negative for autoantibodies from result of February 2012.

I will see an endocrinologist tomorrow. Hopefully, he can help me find the right dosage.
Meantime, I will do the soaking with epsom salt 2x a day.

Thank you.

I started with Hyperthroid (Graves Disease) about 15 years ago. I was unaware I had this disease. My internist did a general blood test and unknown to me; added throid testing.

My doctor called me and asked if I was aware of having this disease because I had not complained of symptoms. I had issues..difficulty climbing stairs, stooping to do the vacuum, started loosing some hair; but attributed a lot of this to getting older. I was sent to an Endocronologist and was treated with tapazole for a few years. Then went into remission for a couple of years. My endo, has me come in every 4 to 6 mos for blood work testing the throid. Eventually, I went into Hypotroidism about 8 years ago.

I am still Hypothroid and take Syntroid every a.m. without food. I will likely stay this way. My next appointment with the endo is in 6 mos. This is the longest he will go without testing my throid.This is very important in order to maintain the correct med dosage.

Thanks once again, Mrs. D. regarding the need to take the magnesium; especially since I am taking the Furosemide. The spironolactone is suppose to help maintain the potassium while still being a diuretic.

(Ger)

epsom salt baths, and absorption:
 

I ran across this article today:

complete article here:
http://www.epsomsaltcouncil.org/arti...um_sulfate.pdf

Well its been over 3 months since I started taking the proper type of magnesium and as stated above was to report my results after that period.

Since taking magnesium regularly on a daily basis many of my symptoms have really diminished to a point where it is truly remarkable. Here are some of the improvements and comments:

1. Cold feet and hands feels about 95% improved. Some of my periodic flares still produce the cold feeling, but it is rare even then. The coldness goes away quicker and isn't as intense when present.
2. Memory has really improved. Keep in mind that regaining memory back after having it slip away over several years due to inadequate nutrition is a very slow process at best. Vitamin B12, fish oil and Folate helped me improve it in a gradual fashion since taking them in 2009. Taking the magnesium over the last 3 months has really helped me more than anything taken previously. I keep close track of my short term memory to see if I show improvement so I know it's working. I now remember where I parked my car in a big lot after shopping and my locker number at the gym without having to check it in my pocket. This may seem minor, but its a huge relief for me!
3.Dizziness has improved as well. I still get random bouts of dizziness, but less frequently and more mild than before.
4. Hypersensitivity on face and scalp much improved with lesser reoccurences.
5. Tingling in the hands is slightly better but still there. Comes and goes.
6. My hair is now a bit thicker than before. I always had thick bushy hair until the PN became apparent. My hair really started to thin the last couple of years. I know that magnesium is not a hair loss cure, but something happened to improve my condition and I can't think of anything else.
7. Numbness in feet doesn't appear to have changed much if at all. It cycles from very mild to moderate depnding on a flare or not.
8. Flares are less frequent and less intense overall.

In conclusion, I'm very happy with the magnesium and hope it helps others like it did me.

Thanks for the update. I am so glad for you that you are improving and more comfortable!;)

Great about your improvements. My doctor has me on 400 mg twice a day. Very important.

I'm impressed that your doctor even knows about the benefits of magnesium. Doctors have made me become very skeptical over the last couple years. Still, there are some very good ones around. You just have to find them.