Adrenals?
 

I have been feeling so tired and out of energy in the evenings. This has been going on for a while now.
I stopped going to the gym at 8 because I was too tired. then jeff and I have been walking around our neighborhood after dinner, and that has become a chore to get myself to do this. every few days I actually lay down and nap after our walk. WE were at a concert last night and I could not stay still I had a lot of pent up energy but was tired. The other night I almost fell asleep at another concert that we went to. My meds have not changed, I have been eating like this , no changes there. I eat the same for lunch as I do dinner.
I spoke with a woman at the health food store tammie she said that my adrenals were depleted.
I have not researched what that all means.
Does anyone know anything about this in general?
thanks bizi

symptoms of adrenal fatigue:
 

Here's some holistic adrenal info/sites -
http://www.healwithhope.com/articles/adrenal-fatigue/
http://www.holistichelp.net/adrenal-fatigue.html

I am 49 years old and am starting to go thru menopause.
last month I had two cycles in one month, hated that. Maybe this is jsut part of that process. I think that I have not been eating enough at dinner time too. Snacking alot doesn't help a diet though.
bizi

Same symptoms as my thyroid diax Bizi.

Have you had the thyroid checked? I believe you said they had.THe exhaustion is a pain in the butt. Total wipeout comes on.

When ds had adrenal gland failure, the steroids /epidurals.....pain shots. made his bodyadrenal gland) stop producing the adrenialyn, it was being fooled by his epidural spine injections steroids. He was OD'd on steroid.
Face was bright red, flushed bad, ephuria, laughing at stupid things, no reason for laughing.

I hope something has you feeling back to normal again.

Bizi,

Ask a gyn to do a hormone workup. If the mdoc finds anything, he or she can offer suggestions.

M

I had saliva testing done when I first started having symptoms last year with the rosacea, my hormones were fine.
But maybe they have changed since then. It has been awhile since I had my thyroid checked maybe I should ask my pdoc to write me orders.
I have had an increased amount of stress from my business being slow, financial stress....that is contributing. I don't have motivation to do much which has been going on for a long while.
I am getting ready to start selling some nutritional supplements part time. They are specifically designed (ingredient wise) to help elevate mood.
I am anxious to try them out. They hit the market in may. I am hoping to try some samples before then. Their website is not up yet. All plant based.

solle vital:
(This is just one of their 7 products)
the ingrediants:
chloropyll, alfalfa, mulberry, nettle, spinach
oatstraw,dandelion, burdock
eleuthero, schizandra, astragalus, jioagulan, ashwaganda, rhodiola extracts.
stevia as a sweetener.


bizi

Dear Bizi

i agree with hormonal bloodwork including gyn and thyroid. i would see your mdoc for starters. might be able to recommend an endocrinologist that can cover all the bases.

adrenal insufficiency tends to happen in the scenario Di described - when someone is on steroids and they are not removed gradually enough. you have not taken oral steroids, so it seems less likely to me. still, they can check your adrenal function.

i also had the same reaction as Di wrt thyroid function. those can be signs of thyroid hypoactivity. other signs of that would be

• constipation
• brittle hair and breakage
• brittle nails/ridging
• dry skin
• feeling cold more than is "normal for you"
• weight gain w/o change in diet.

females over 50 are at highest risk of developing hypothyroidism.

even though you have lost some weight, i kind of wonder because you are on a diet, and did not lose a lot.... could be a reason for that. :o definitely get full thyroid panel (not just TSH) - make sure they do, at minimum:

TSH, FT4, FT3.

:hug::hug::hug:

~ waves ~

herb-drug interactions scarcely documented or known
 

Dear BiziPlants contain chemicals. it is the chemicals in them which work as supplements. Those chemicals are no different than drugs wrt how we process them. sometimes they do similar things to our drugs (eg St. John's Wort works similar to SSRIs). Manic reactions are just as possible, depending on the mechanism of action of the herb (chemicals in it.)

Interactions are also possible if you take meds and plants that have similar actions - eg, 2 things that elevate serotonin can put one at risk for Serotonin Syndrome.

Moreover and very importantly, our body, and especially the liver does a lot of work "dismantling" these chemicals - herbs or drugs, it cares not - for excretion.

if you intend to take herbal supplements of any kind safely along with meds you need to research each and every single plant - its active constituents. then, you need to find out how each constituent is metabolized, down to the nitty gritty, to see if it has the potential of messing with your meds... or messing up your meds. :o:(

just as a general example, many herbs induce glucuronidation - a process by which many benzo's are partially metabolized. oxidative processes involving hepatic enzymes, esp. the p450 family of enzymes are affected by many herbs also.

a given plant chemical can "induce" or "inhibit" an enzyme or metabolic pathway. this will cause, respectively, faster or slower clearance of any drug that is processed via that route. that in turn results in lower or higher plasma levels of the drug.

Because it is difficult to find solid information of this kind on herbs, and even doctors don't know of herb-drug interactions except for a handful of herbs, i personally adopt the "either-or" philosophy when it comes to meds, and that is also my personal recommendation to others, for safety :

--- EITHER ---
commercial pharmaceuticals (interactions are well documented)
----- OR -----
herbal remedies (a good herbalist will know how to combine herbs with each other safely)

================================

i hope you find some answers from the docs, and feel better soon. :heartthrob:

love

~ waves ~

Dear waves, thank you for the heads up....Christine is a natureopathic doctor, I guess I am trusting her that these are safe supplements to take. Golly I never thought that they could make me manic. I wonder if I should tell her that I am bipolar?????
bizi

Dear Bizi

You should absolutely tell her. i didn't hear anything in what you listed that rang a bell regarding possible mania, but i don't know all of those plants either.

you should also inform her of all your meds and ask if there are interactions.

i'm quite concerned about something lowering your of Geodon level.... or raising Lamictal to crazy levels.

if impact on the metabolic routes is not known, or is unpredictable... then taking these herbs with meds is unadvisable.

A naturopath will surely know what combinations are "ok" and what are not - among herbs themselves, but she may not know the whys and why nots. She may not be aware of metabolic routes. That knowledge may simply not be available, because it is very difficult to establish compareed to a lab-made pharmaceutical, because

• a single plant can have a vast number of active constituents. each constituent would have to be tested in vitro and in vivo against a "benchmark" pharmaceutical to possible metabolic interaction.
• identification of all the active phytoconstituents can prove challenging from one sample to another. variability between one plant and another - constituents of the same species will inevitably vary depending on their growing conditions (light, shade, water, terrain, space, temperature, humidity, even in the same cultivation. different geographic locations can produce even greater differences...

an effect of the latter point is that the amount of each active phytoconstituent can vary from tablet to tablet, unless they are standardized by phytoconstituent.

even if the labeling claims standardization however, it can be quite arbitrary because standardization of supplements is not FDA-regulated. there is a law that supplements must not have effects equal to a medication, and it might go further than that. the problem is, unless there is proof that one or more of the constituents can have actions similar or identical to a known pharmaceutical, the regulation cannot be applied.

what this means is that when you take a supplement containing (e.g.)
1.5 mg astragalus, you have no assurance that

• the amount of plant in each pill is in fact 1.5 mg (no standardization)
• the phytoconstituents in each pill are in the same quantities (even if a breakdown is listed)

the effects on metabolism can consequently be unpredictable even when are known for at least the major constituents of a particular herb.

Here they are starting to standardize and regulate supplements.

please just do be careful if you decide to go ahead and try these.

one thing you could do to check interactions on yourself, might be to request level testing before you start, and again after 2 weeks of taking them - or something like that. :hug::hug::hug:

~ waves ~

The "change" can be very different for each individual woman.

I didn't have much trouble, just with sleeping. When I started methyl B12 that normalized for me very well.

One thing that can make for sleepiness after eating is INSULIN
overproduction. Eating a large night time dinner will stimulate insulin release and this will make one typically sleepy.

The solution is to have larger breakfast and a good lunch with a lighter supper. Also high carb content at dinner typically will make one sleepier too.

If you are taking that tetracycline still? That may over time deplete some nutrients:
http://www.chiro.org/nutrition/ABSTR...ibiotics.shtml

Mayo clinic evaluates some complimentary and alternative medicine ---- pointing out that none of them have good science to back them up.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/men...ative-medicine
Yoga works for some people.


M

well I forgot to tell you that this supplement allowed a woman to get off her antidepressants so it has anti depressant qualities.
yes I am still taking the tetracyclin mrs d. thank you for posting that.
Dear waves, I appreciate your input very much and will tell her in a private email not in person.confidentiality, I met her in the health food store.
Jeff said he is willing to help watch me. I looked up the chemicals/herbs last night and they all sound really good and healthy.some are calming others are enrgizing, some help resist stress. eleuthero is ginseng, I had a reaction to that a long time ago but don't know what type that was or if there is only one kind of ginseng. It was a sport drink of sorts and it had a lot. These new supplements have small amounts of these ingrediants. I think it is worth a try especially since my pdoc suggested that I try a small dose of an anti depressant the last time that I saw her.
thank you mari.
((((HUGS))) to you all
bizi

Hi, Bizi,

Tell her in person instead of email. Email is not private and it lasts forever.

M

I called into my pdoc and left a message about the supplements. Am waiting to hear back from her office manager I never talk to her outside of our appointments.The last time that I saw her was a bit more than a med check
visit $120 out of pocket because she no longer takes my insurance.She gave me free samples of geodon which saves me money/ geodon just came out with a generic! It used to cost my insurance company $500 a month.I had a $50 copay. now I don't know what it will cost me.
bizi who came home and took a nap from our walk after dinner....:(
sigh

hmmmmm....
 

well that's good. i am glad you are talking to your pdoc about it.
right, but
--- did you find anything about metabolic routes??
--- did you look up the herbs, the active constituents of each herb, and effect of each constituent?

if so i am truly amazed... maybe you could pass along the sources??? :o because i sure would be interested for my own research!

.... whenever i look for this stuff what i find are *LOTS*of dead ends, brick walls and "generalities" like "safe and gentle" or things like "activating" and "calming" ... those things don't tell me squat as to how the drug affects metabolic processes/other drugs. :o:( i have found specific information on a handful of herbs, and some was from books written by an MD specialized in herbal medicine here.

there are several kinds. Eleutherococcus senticosus is Siberian ginseng which is not technically a ginseng but it has similar properties, and it is in the same plant family (araliaceae). more common is the Panax genus which includes "American ginseng" (Panax quinquefolius) and Chinese ginseng (Panax ginseng). All of the ginsengs are activating. my mother worries when i so much as have ginseng tea. :p:D

phytochemicals can be extremely potent. a small amount doesn't mean necessarily a small effect. nonetheless, i agree with you that for the antidepressant effect it might be worth a try. regarding a reaction, you'll just have to see how it goes, as you would with any new med.

regarding interactions, i strongly suggest level testing before you start, and then 2 weeks after, to check if med levels have been affected. that includes all your meds: Geodon, Lamictal, Klonopin and anything i don't know about.

Klonopin is partly metabolized by CYP450 3A4 which is an extremely common enzyme pathway. Several herbs induce or inhibit that also, which would change your level. Echinacea for example does both - acts differently on the enzyme in the gut vs. in the liver!!! so in its case depending WHERE a drug is predominantly processed matters too! :eek: (i suspect this "dual" effect is most likely by distinct action of 2 separate phytoconstituents in the plant.)

Geodon is also partly a CYP 3A4 substrate but indications are that interactions with inducers/inhibitors may not require a dose adjustment. I suppose if you are at a borderline-therapeutic level, then an inducer could still drop you below.

Lamictal is primarily metabolized by glucuronidation/conjugation but that can also be affected (again Echinacea for instance...)


a before-and-after level check would provide direct empirical information pertaining to you specifically, which beats all theory and statistics. ;)


good luck with this! :heartthrob:

love

~ waves ~

Just a brief reminder here. Atypical antipsychotics can raise blood sugar...it can sneak up on you. One sign of rising blood sugar is excessive fatigue. If you can, Bizi, get some blood work, and A1C done to make sure this is not happening. It can spring up very quickly.

Also I agree with waves...herbs are really not benign. They are mini drugs and have potential to do unexpected things.

The drug checker will check food/herbs as well as drugs.
http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.php

thank you waves and mrs d.
I will wait to see what my pdoc wants to do. I recently had a blood sugar finger test done and it was 80 and I had already eaten lunch before then.
I had a big dinner last night, 2 bocca burgers, cup of lentil soup and a big salad with feta cheese, probably 600 calories. I still had to take a nap. My energy level during the day seems to be normal.
This is the time that I used to go to the gym. now i need to take naps and still sleep just fine at night when we go to bed at midnight. but I also take klonipin to sleep, which works fine for me. thank goodness.
bizi

still having the fatigue in the evening, very frustrating...sigh
I have not heard back from my pdocs office...maybe I should call them again.
I am feeling very leary about the supplements.
bizi

Well I talked with my pdoc last week and my therapist last night.
(pdoc spoke with tdoc) They think that this may be depression that I am going thru. They both encouraged me to try the small dose of antidepressant. I am considering it. I think that I should not take the supplements, too unpredictable with my meds and the number of mood enhancing ingredients. My sleep has not been good keep waking up and then have a hard time going back to sleep if any at all. Can't get comfortable, arthritis setting in my shoulder, hips wonder if all of this is related to menopause?
Stress from work is better this week have had a good week, always better the first half of the month then it is slower the second half lately.
I wish I was busier...I don't do well with timeon my hands with nothing planned. I wish I was more interested in life...I don't read, have been listening to talk radio and have been getting depressed over the economy and scared to death over the obama care health reform. I hope it gets deemed unconstitutional.
i need to get going I have to leave for wqrk in half an hour and am still sitting here in my jammies.
bizi

Dear Bizi

Sleep problems, disinterest in life (apathy) and/or disinterest in activities you might normally enjoy (anhedonia) can all be symptoms of depression. Ruminative thoughts and worry can also become stronger, more frequent, and tend towards negative scenarios.

Can you listen to some music instead of the talk radio? Perhaps different music than you normally listen to... if you feel you need a change of pace.

When you have time on your hands, can you try to to do something even if you don't feel interested? In particular, i would suggest creative activities (maybe do some watercolors?) and physical activity (gardening? walking in the neighborhood ... and taking in the sights... trees, landscape, others' gardens?) If you can't do these things... try to do *anything* at all. even i dunno, polish an old silver jug or something. usually doing anything is better than doing nothing, even if it is a very small thing. it provides a positive focus.

When i am depressed, i find it soothing to fold (or refold) clothes, slowly, allowing myself to be really perfectionistic about it. I am not suggesting this will work for everyone, or you in particular.... just sharing.

i am glad you are considering giving the antidepressant a try.

i am really glad you are leaning against the herbal supplements.

love

~ waves ~ hoping you feel better soon

Thanks waves, It is all an effort.
I should shower tonight but don't want to make the effort.
sigh
bizi

i hear you Bizi
 

Dear Bizi

Yes, depression is like that. Even the tiniest things are an effort. I understand 10000%. :hug::hug::hug: I am sorry you are experiencing this. :( It gets old real fast, too.

I hope that you try the meds and that they are helpful. If nothing else, know that by the cyclic nature of our illness, this shall pass.

love

~ waves ~

Dear Bizi
I am so sorry you have been feeling so depressed. You have been through so much this past while and you are still going through it. I use escape novels to help me but i don't think the passivity is good. i hope you try antidepressants and they work for you. if one doesn't work, try another.
love
bobby

I think the tetracycline can be a culprit. It depletes B's significantly over time, and B6 is needed for serotonin synthesis.
B2 is needed to activate the B6 into pyridoxal.

do not use more than 50mg of B6 daily though. That should be enough.

I stopped taking the tetracycline this past week. I think 5 months is long enough! I was not good at taking it twice a day though as I still has some left and it was only a 4month supply....I have a b complex that I will start taking today, it had 50mg of b6 along with other b vits.
I am going to make myself be productive today.
cleaned out the humming bird feeder, started a load of laundry, have 4 to do and then iron my scrubs for 2 weeks, clean out the pet fountain. I made some coffee so that tastes good. Jeff was a hero yesterday. He rented a steam cleaner and cleaner the traffic areas of the carpet in 3 bed rooms (we need new carpet but can't afford any major purchases) and the dining room, The carpets had been stained from cat throw ups and spot cleaned that left stains. so they look so good, I thanked him profusely. We have company coming for festival international at the end of the month, jeffs best friend who does not care about the house but they looked so bad, I was embarrassed to have company over..
let me get going with my chores, have a hair cut appointment at 1.
bizi

What I'm Doing to Deal With My Fatigue
 

Hi, great info. Hope you get better, bizi. Just wanted to throw in some supplements that have helped me with my adrenal fatigue.

Liquid chlorophyll and sublingual B complex (which is full of B12) have helped a lot.

I've also started walking without fail at leas t a mile a day. At first it made me more tired but pretty soon it was giveing me more energy and a greater sense of wel-being

These things have made a huge difference in having extra energy. At least three other people I know swear by B12 and they don't even have thyroid problems.

I had another what I call sinking spell after dinner...had to lay down for a couple of hours then got up fine till bed time.I don't know maybe I just am needing a nap every now and then from menopause? just starting this....sigh
bizi

Bizi,

Naps are ok. They are fine as long as they do not interfere with your night sleep.

You are O.K.

M

I saw my pdoc today....She wanted to further talk about my routine and showering like ocd stuff. She asked me about my memory, I told her it was terrible. , she asked me about nursing school, I told her it was really hard for me that I didnot know how I passed state boards etc.. I told her that I felt stupid. I told her I felt like I had a learning disability...she felt like I had ADD. She wanted to test me, possibly put me on add meds...I just got real anxious and said that I function as best as I can, always try to put up a good front for her. But that I was not that high functioning that I was getting by.
in the end I told her that I did not want to do the testing. That I would rather not know. She said most people want to know, she left it open if I ever wanted to do the testing.
I didnot tell her that I was not seeing mitzy anymore, she did not ask.
She doesn't know that I have been drinking alot.
though I know she would not like it at all.
Think I will work on cutting down my drinking on july 1st as well as dieting they kind of go hand in hand, I drink really fattening beer.
good nite all.
bizi

Bizi,

I took 10 mgs of Ritalin for three years when I was on Wellbutrin. I loved it. It cleared up brain fog.

What kind of testing would be involved?

M

hi why won't you take it again?
bizi

Ritalin
 

Hi, Bizi,

This was in the 1990s.
I stopped it because of the huge hassle the government regulations made me go through with the handwritten, hard copy script that had to be dropped off within 48 hours of the date on the script.

I hope that nowadays the rules for Ritalin make more sense.

M.

Maybe you could try it again?
I am afraid of it.
bizi

Perhaps the first day or two I took it I had a slight headache but I really do not remember. I do remember that it worked very well.

M

Why Most Doctors Don't Recognize Adrenal Fatigue
 

Great info here. Maybe some of you have wondered why doctors don't recognize adrenal fatigue? Because they are only trained to look for either extreme adrenal underproduction of cortisol (Addison's Disease) or exteme overproduction (Cushing's Syndrome). Adrenal fatigue is in between the two extremes so it is not often recognized.