do you take vitamins and supplements and what for?
 

Just curious,
I am taking quite a few myself and wondered if you think this might be too many:

chlorella 3 tabs twice a day, for cellular repair and a super food.
digestive enzymes 3 tabs twice a day, help digest food and make available for absorption...I think.
Flaxseed oil 1000mg, Essential fatty acids
Fish Oil. 1000mg Omega 3 fatty acids (I don't eat salmon)
vit D3 6,000 units because I was deficient
B50 complex for fatigue
zinc 30mg with copper for cellular repair
calcium 600mg twice a day, osteopenia and I don't drink milk
multivit and mineral with iron just in case I am not eating enough of the right foods.

It was recommended that i try taking b12 to combat my early evening fatigue, what do you think about that? I stopped taking the probiotics because I finished taking the tetracyclin. But I think I should start taking them again.
bizi

Bizi - if it ain't broke, don't fix it!!!
 

Bizi i highlighted the things (above) that i think might be distinctly problematic. I have the following concerns:

• 
  Calcium supplementation w/ adequate Vit D status - There is a risk of hypercalcemia when supplementing with calcium along with vitamin D. Your multivit+mineral probably has additional calcium too! :eek: When you get labs, have your Calcium status checked along with your vitamin D status. Vitamin D makes it easier to absorb calcium from foods, so supplementation is usually not needed. Furthermore, calcium is better absorbed from vegetarian sources (e.g. broccoli and kale) than from dairy. Excessive calcium tends to cause constipation. It can also cause kidney stones and other problems.
• 
  Calcium and Magnesium balance - Calcium and magnesium intake should always be proportional. Supplementation should also be proportional to each other. The Ca:Mg intake ratio should be 2:1, and they should be taken at separate times during the day. These minerals complement each other in physiological processes Disproportionate supplementation of either one can cause deficiency in the other. Also, calcium should be taken on an empty stomach. http://buymagnesiumcitrate.com/why-s...ith-magnesium/
• 
  "B50 Complex" - Supplements with this labeling are often misleading. Please check the ingredients. Does it have 50% RDA of each? (That would be ok.) However if it listss "50mg" of most things, "50mcg" of others etc... it is grossly unbalanced. The B vitamins should be taken in proportion with one another, and 50 is not a magic number in regard to the specific units. :o Your multivit most likely contains a full complement of B vitamins anyway! :eek: Please also check the %RDA of the B vits contained in your multivit.
• 
  Additional B12 - You should only supplement with B12 if you have a deficiency. Deficiency is rare except in those with strict vegan diets, special populations or gastric problems. If you were deficient it would most likely know from labs, as it would most likely cause anemia or borderline anemia. Since you have unexplained fatigue, I would request B12 status testing. It is important to identify a B12 deficiency before attempting to correct it. Given you are not vegan, investigation of the cause might be warranted. Depending on the cause, deficiency may be require treatment with shots and/or sublingual supplements.
  
• 
  Iron - Taking iron "in case" you are not eating right is a bad idea. Deficiency occurs in some individuals but it is not that common. It would almost certainly produce anemia. And the flip side is that excessive Iron causes fatigue.

~ waves ~

Dear Bizi,

Here are the supplements I take, how much, and why:

• Vitamin D - 1500 units daily for now... in the process of testing / titrating. Testing cannot be done often here, so it will be a while probably before I can reach target levels. I am uncomfortable titrating more steeply when i cannot test frequently.

  REASON: Clinical deficiency

• a balanced B complex containing
  • 10 B-group vitamins, at ~100% RDA each except
  • only 40% RDA of B12 which accumulates in the system anyway and I eat meat.
  • 300% RDA of Biotin - dunno why but the amount is within tolerbility so... whatever.

  REASON: Clinical folate deficiency (tested) and denatured food sources. Depakote interferes with folate absorption. Also, due to how my parents (overcook their foods - often boiling them in water), I am almost certainly not getting the full nutritional benefits from foods that normally provide these vitamins.
  

• Selenium + Zinc supplement - with complementary nutrients:
  • Se 75mg
  • Zn 15 mg
  • Vit C 60mg
  • Vit E 30mg
  • Betacarotene 5mg

  REASON: Depakote depletions - VPA is known to to deplete Selenium and vitamin E. It can also cause hairloss - supplementation with Selenium and Zinc prevent that.

• Magnesium citrate - occasionally.

  REASON: any persistent sx that suggest I could use it (tics etc.) in addition to the other stuff.

I should probably also take Carnitine (d/t Depakote depletion) but I am uncomfortable with the idea and, since i am no longer on a really high dose of Depakote I will probably continue not to.

~ waves ~

blood work for calcium status
 

Hi,

This reminds me that when I last some my mdoc 12 months ago, I asked for blood work to check my calcium status along with other things.

I got a call that everything was normal. I wonder would like to see the paper work for the calcium and other stuff. I am waiting 18 months to see the report for results of my peripheral neuropathy test. The techs who performed the PN test said I absolutely do not have it. Still, I would like to see the report.

Maybe I should make an mdoc appointment soon.

M

You should be able to get copies of ALL your test results. We can here if we ask.

bizi, how come you're taking the flax 1000mg AND the Omega3 1000mg?

edited to add:

Plus you're taking

B50 complex for fatigue
and
multivit and mineral with iron just in case I am not eating enough of the right foods.

What's in the Multivit/mineral with iron? Similar to the B50?

I have to comment on the chlorella algae.

I think it would be prudent to not use algae products until this
is cleared up, if ever.

http://brainbank.med.miami.edu/x63.xml

ugh I'm confused. Is that for real?
The article didn't really make sense to me. When was it written? Is it only algae sourced from certain areas that are the problem? Lots of questions.

I've been prescribed and swallowing this green tablet for as long as I can remember. :eek:

This is another one:

http://thedartmouth.com/2011/06/28/news/ALS

I got the information originally from the PD forum.

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/sh...ighlight=algae

For what it is worth, I have a skin condition that came from using lake water in summer upNorth.... blistering painful inflammatory problems. Some of the residents get it up there too. I contacted a University professor here with questions...I thought it was zebra mussel spawn..but he said it was probably the algae bloom which happens when the water warms.

I now avoid the water up there and I don't get it. I have permanent scarring from the reactions. Only on sun exposed skin. It is called a photosensitive contact dermatitis.

eeek OK Thanks.

I don't swim in it I EAT it. I'm going to have to investigate the source of the Chlorella I take. I wouldn't jump into a pond that had blue-green algae in it. I had put faith into the natural sources of the product I have been taking so long. Ugh. I'm so confused.

At this point, I don't think manufacturers have a clue. The toxin is part of the algae, not a contaminant. The algae makes it.

One site I looked at had this comment:
Animals do not eat the algae as a food source, and that is why it builds up in some water sources. THEY know, it is not to be consumed, and it is only humans who have attributed food or other value to it. Even fish, only certain tropical fish eat algae...not all of them. I think the algae eaters have the ability to handle the metabolism better, etc. So the hints are there in nature already IMO.

We double filter our water, up there which removes the algae for drinking.

This toxin discovered is cummulative... so time is also a factor in dilute situations.

wonder where my last reply post went to???????
I wanted to thank you guys for getting me to look at my multi vit. I discovered that it has 500mg of calcium and 1000 units of vit d3 so that is 2 pills that I can quit taking! I found one that I am going to start taking.
"super fruits" by natures plus extended release. ingredients:
acai, goji, pomegranate, mangosteen, noni. I don't eat any fruits except for strawberries not very often so I thought a fruit supplement would be a good idea. It is a huge pill, largest one I take!

I question the chlorella issues. Is the article saying that all algae are bad? spiralina is an algae form. I looked at other "greens" supplements and they all have spiralina or chlorella in them.

I guess I don't know why I take 2 different sources of omega3's, plant based vs. animal based????maybe I read that somewhere????

I take calcium supplements because I don't drink milk and was borderline osteopenia last year so.....

thanks again for your replies.
bizi

Dear Bizi

i'm afraid i replied but it was quite detailed - took me a while to write.

i am hoping they can restore the posts.

==================

My post said, in summary... sorry if i skip all the explanations for now... sigh. :(:(:( if they don't restore the posts i'll explain more tomorrow if needed. although probably much of the "explanatory" stuff is in my very first post, already.

• drop that B50... too much stuff. useless, and your multivit has plenty of b6 and b12 already.

  ------

• add 1/2 as much magnesium as you take calcium. both are needed and, at a 2:1 ratio of Ca:Mg they are complementary along with vitamin D for bone health

  ------

• get tests for
  • calcium
  • iron
  • b12
  
  If your iron comes out high you need to replace your multivit with one that has no iron. excessive iron can cause fatigue - but not only.

your fish + flax oils are fine... they are different oils anyway. EPA dosage is 3000mg/day divided in 3 doses.

however please check the vitamin A and D content in your fishoil caps.

==================

MrsD's post said that so far it is just blue-green algae, and that both chlorella and spirulina are blue-green algae. she added something to the effect that she wouldn't recommend taking the stuff but ultimately it's your call.

~ waves ~

Waves and Bizi,

This is a good list.
Also, Bizi, get tested for hormones.

Eating dairy is not connected to calcium in your body.
(I have been reading population and other studies on this for years because of my meds.)
I apologize for not having links.

M

Hi, Bizi,

Did some reading today about the toxin in chlorella algae.
The decision to take it depends how how risk averse you are.
It also depends on your food options. At one point, I had a difficult time chewing food and bought a container of greens so I could get more greens in my body. I ended up not using the product more than three or four times.

M

Lara,
 

Dear Lara,

Yikes!
I found two sites I liked:

1 Canada: http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ewh-semt/pubs...r-eng.php#blue

2 I trust information I get from Andrew Weil:
Dr. Andrew Weil on eating well for maximum health
http://www.cnn.com/chat/transcripts/...eil/index.html

M

Thanks for those sites, Mari. Thanks mrsD for more explanation.

Sorry I freaked out a little. :o Looks worse in the red text though. lol

I was just sitting here thinking to myself about the reasons I was taking it in the first place and then when mrsD mentioned the problems with her skin from the lake water I remembered all the safety signs going up in the lakes where I used to live. Danger signs - do not enter the water type signs. That was because of the algae bloom. Then I was thinking about how it was prescribed to me years ago by a Naturopath and it was years and years ago but I just kept taking it quite blindly without further and newer investigations.

Thankyou all for the information!

bizi, I wish they weren't all so expensive. I guess that's why it's always a good idea for us to double check to make sure we're not taking more than we need and because of that cost we're not paying all that extra money.

We have another kind of algae bloom in the oceans here called the Red Tide. This one is very poisonous, in fact.

We really don't have lots of algae upNorth, as the water is COLD, and always moving, and never stagnant.

I really don't have sensitive skin and I got this as soon as we started going up in June and July. Once the "attack" is over, and I will say it is quite painful, I am clear to go the rest of the summer. It started on my left arm one summer, and spread to both forearms, hands and knees. I met a woman once who told me she lived inland in the woods and had almost an identical thing happen where she lived. That one would be harder to explain, but could be a drug reaction. I don't think mine was medication induced, because when it started I wasn't taking what I take now. shrug...?

I even got it on my ears one June! Oh, that was painful.
No one else in the family up there gets it, only me. Some of the locals get it, esp those who fish. They get it on their hands.

I found some photos of it on Dermis website.

WEll I stopped taking the chlorella and the b50mg complex, less calcium and less vit d. so that was nice taking fewer pills after lunch.
thank you mrs. D....I talked about the blue green algae with donna at the health food store and she said that they only recommend the organic kind. Would that make a difference?
bizi

Dear Bizi,

please consider adding the magnesium in proportion to the calcium you take.

(((hugs)))

~ waves ~

My understanding is that the algae itself is producing this toxin.
Since we don't know EVERYTHING about the safety of algae as a source of food/or supplement, and it is showing this brain toxic compound, I'd avoid it. It is not an essential nutrient like Vit C, or EFAs.

The toxin is not from the environment, so the word "organic" is meaningless in this context.

Really...one must be VERY careful of people who work in health food stores. You can get very skewed and inaccurate information there.

I think you could take your B-complex, only not every day.
Once a week, might be okay. Careful use of B6 enables serotonin synthesis in the brain, which helps melatonin derived from it.

B50, Chlorella, and healthfood stores
 

Dear Bizi

If you decide to take an additional B complex besides the amounts that are arleady in you multivits, and which already exceed 100% of the RDA, i think you should seek out a BALANCED b-complex. that B-50 is not balanced - as in the quantities of the different vitamins are not in proportion to each other, as i explained before. I suppose if you just want to finish up what you have so as not to throw money away, once a week will be ok as MrsD suggests.

When you get the testing done, I would also talk to your doctor about any real need for additional supplementation, but let her know about your multivit (bring it) and ask if it is sufficient. Bet s/he will say yes. If s/he suggests additional supplementation, ask how much of what. Based on that, seek something with balanced proportions and reasonable dosages.

I agree wholeheartedly with MrsD's assessment of info obtained from "health-food" stores. They are not scientifically sound sources of information. Some of the salespeople are naive and misinformed, but they genuinely believe what they tell you; others don't know diddly but will say whatever sounds good to move product... either way not much different than the pharmaceutical company/reps, except there are fewer regulatory constraints on these products. :eek:

I am glad you are dropping the Chlorella... the "super-food" aspect was more about its potential as a concentrated protein source, at a time in history when people weren't getting enough. Now we are getting plenty of protein, even in excess. So, even if the stuff weren't toxic, i don't see that it would be useful.

I wish i could say, "I drink to your health," but my stomach won't let me do that... LOL ;):o

love

~ waves ~

any type of magnesium better than another thanks waves.
bizi

Dear Bizi
 

Magnesium Citrate.

Natural Calm is the well known brand there... it is a soluble powder. Please check the instructions - HOT water may be required.

Natural Calm - About Magnesium

Natural Calm Sweet Lemon - 16 oz:

http://www.calmnatural.com/account/i...=1334948565549 ............... http://www.calmnatural.com/account/i...=1334948565549



~ waves ~

I just read the ingredients - same as stuff here mag carbonate + citric acid anydrous - they will dissolve and react to produce mag citrate only in hot water - follow indications on package carefully! :)

~ waves ~

I used to take calm for its supposed laxative properties so I have some left over. thanks but would rather take a pill.
bizi

GREAT :confused: :confused: :confused:

I use room temperature water with the same product pictured above. I feel like a moron.

That's ok I guess.
I take the Mag to help with constipation from Verapamil and Gabapentin. Mag carbonate is not processed well in the body. It has been working for what I need.

M

there are alternatives - you can find something in pill form.
 

i know what you mean. :o i have some, and it's too tart for me.

Look for Mg citrate in pill forms. Mg malate and Mg aspartate are also well absorbed forms. However long-term use of the aspartate in excess of 400 mg has been found to produce a risk of amino acid imbalance (aspartic acid is an amino acid).

Generally avoid the oxide and carbonate.

~ waves ~

check package instructions
 

Dear Mari,

check the packaging/instructions. If hot water is needed, it will tell you. It is possible that the kind sold there has some sort of catalyst added that makes it soluble at lower temperatures. It does say some sort of "proprietary form." I don't see anything proprietary about plain ol' anyhydrous citric acid and mag carbonate, so i guess it's posssible there is something ELSE in there too, but nothing is mentioned. The kind sold here, which originated from the same maker, says to use hot water, so i figure most likely it's the same for over there. But just check.

Right. If your package says hot water is needed, you can let it cool before you drink it. You can save money by using less product.

As far as the less absorbable forms, like the carbonate and the oxide... i took an oxide based supplement for quite a while, and it made a difference when i did not take it. So, it's not like they're total garbage either! :);):rolleyes:

There is alot of new information on the magnesium thread on Vitamin forum.

Some of us on the PN forum are using topical lotions or cream now with good success. Helps with pain, and muscle cramps too.

I took the mag citrate today, it fizzes alot! then drank my metamucil that way no after taste from the mag.It is festival international this week so we are going tonight after work. Should be fun! have company coming in tomorrow for a quick weekend to enjoy the festival with us. The weather looks perfect, 80's partly cloudy, breezes. perfect!
bizi

Dear Bizi
 

Good for you for taking the Magnesium Bizi! :)

I hope you enjoy the festival with your friends - and that you don't get too anxious. :hug::hug::hug:

love

~ waves ~