Hoping supplements will remain free to buy
 

:mad:Durbin's ammend. is in Senate. A vote is soon, minutes. I have no idea how he keeps getting to do this. We have to remain free to buy the supplements that heal us. I hope this doesn't pass. When he tried it before, it failed. I NEED to sleep tonight! I have been worried for months about this.

http://www.naturalproductsinsider.co...ment-bill.aspx

I watched it all on CSPAN. I hope Durbin stops doing this. He has tried before.

We are safe in America again. I have told so many to sign the petition and made so many calls. I am feeling happy but tired, no sleep. Nap time for me.


http://www.anh-usa.org/durbin-amendment-defeated/

The other side of this coin is:

Supplements containing DRUGS which are not listed on the label.

Foods containing things that shouldn't be there unless proven effective.

This is not the same as the Euro issues with limiting doses, or content.

But then, who am I to say... what doors this opens?

Supplements would be free to buy as long as they conform to safety labeling.
Do you know how many erectile supplements actually contain Viagra?
This has been a real problem in US. People taking this can die under certain complex drug interaction scenarios.

Many imported supplements from China contain many toxic drugs, that are removed from sale here... like chloramphenicol (antibiotic), and
phenylbutazone (anti-inflammatory).

It is something to think about. Abuses of the system often result in overly restrictive laws as a result. So there is no one clear cut answer to this problem of adulterated or misbranded supplements.

It is up to the consumer to be smart. I never take supplements from other countries. My doctors do not use things like that. We cannot be a nanny state like other countries. They have thier choice taken away. They cannot buy supplements. I talk to many, many people and it makes me sad and I hope we never turn into a place where we cannot have freedom. Things have been changing that way the past couple of years and we cannot let that continue. FDA over reaches and never protects us from prescriptions. $$$$$ They only want to control our supplements that heal us.

Durbin tried to sneak this in but Alliance for Health warned everyone.

Supplements are regulated as a food not as a drug.

This site is interesting.

http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Die...hProfessional/

how can the consumer be smart if the consumer doesnt know what the ingredients of a supplement are? i dont see anything wrong with this bill and i fail to see where it limits anyone's freedom to buy supplements. there should be no problems or hesitation listing ingredients if they arent harmful. people should know exactly what is in their supplements.

It would take a while to explain. You can read about it. It was thankfully not even a close vote. You do know the ingredients in supplements. At least good ones. FDA is not as careful with prescriptions that cause many deaths.

more explanation:

http://www.naturalproductsinsider.co...-defeated.aspx

Often amendments get tagged onto other legislation, and this vote was to try and get this passed while on the coat-tails of other laws.

I do see it as perhaps placing a pricing burden on the consumer, who would pay for the extra efforts supplement manufacturers would pass on to them from the costs of complying with the new law. It would also flood the FDA, as it stands now, and create delays, and require more employees to handle it all. At a time when downsizing government is a goal to decrease spending, it seems ill timed.

There have been remedies posted here that do not list their ingredients clearly. Or only partially do so. I don't want to post about them again, and draw them back here. If you want an example, I'll PM you with one very obvious example. But I see the Durbin amendment as a potential for consumer safety. But in reality once in place it just might increase the costs of supplements we already use. Many government attempts of control, often just backfire in some way.

Food safety is really a hot issue now, and the FDA cannot even begin to oversee and inspect all the food chain locations where deadly bacteria may enter our food chain. I don't see how the FDA can do a new thing on top of that major failure?

Supplements after 1994 would have been off the shelves within 30 days. So it was a good outcome. FDA has already taken fish oil to make money, good grief. Thankfully, we can still buy it. Also, the vitamin they took that you cannot buy now. I do not want to become the countries with no free will.

I am sorry I don't quite understand this post.

What vitamin did the FDA take off the market?
The FDA PASSED a form of RX fish oil, called Lovaza which allowed it to be covered by RX insurances. That did not do anything to OTC fish oil, which has always been available.

Yes, that is right, thankfully we can still get the Fish oil of our choice.

The other one is a Bvit and I cannot remember the name. No longer on the shelves. Money is the issue.

Natural form of B6 Pyridoxamine is the vitamin.

http://www.anh-usa.org/alert-protect...e-vitamin-b-6/

Big Pharma (FDA) vs. Big Supp
 

There are multiple sides to this issue, as there are to everything. I don't feel I have enough information to form an opinion on this one yet, and I've got some other priorities at the moment, but I have some observations...

First, defeat of the legislation may have had nothing to do with the ammendment/rider itself. I don't know what legislation Durbin ammended, or the merits thereof, but sometimes legislation is ammended to existing bills because the main bill is likely to pass, and sometimes it's ammended to existing bills because the main bill is likely to be defeated. Ain't politics a cuss?

Under the current system, I don't know how a consumer could ever know regardless of how smart/savvy they are. The way many laws (or in this case, unenforced existing guidelines/rules/suggestions) are written, what constitutes "origin" of a product is highly subjective and arguable.

Does "Made in U.S.A." mean every step in the product chain, or could it mean packaged here? Is it mfd. here from raw/processed materials from other sources (which could be contaminated/impure)? What about the capsules/coating (if applicable)? The facts, as I've been able to ascertain so far, are there's no way to tell, regardless of what the label/package states. In many industries, a product can be labeled "Made in U.S.A." if the final product rolls off the assembly line here, even if 99+% of parts & processes are done elsewhere. Some industries/products differ, depending on industry regulation, but there is almost no regulation for supplements, and what is there isn't enforced.

I found this article from earlier this year a VERY interesting read on Big Pharma vs. Big Supp: (N.B. Caution MrsD - your head may explode. :D)
While the above article really has nothing to do with the Durbin Ammendment per se, I think it furnishes a broader perspective on the industry as a whole.

Another observation is that while Big Supp supporters claim no one has died from supplements (in 2010?), the only evidence proffered are statistics from the American Association of Poison Control Centers; nobody else (mentioned by either side) is tracking deaths from supplements. That seems a bit sketchy (at the least) to me, and I'm dubiouis about it reflecting the whole picture. Poison Control centers are contacted in the event of accute episodes; the data is not likely to include longterm effects. Also, Poison Control is usually contacted before, and in hopes of preventing, fatalities, so they may not include data about people who have already succumbed - long or short term.

I agree with MrsD that, on it's face (what's been outlined in this thread) the Durbin Ammendment sounds reasonable, but at what price? I also agree with Echo's comments.

Sally implies that there is a difference between good and bad supplements, which is MrsD's concern as well, and I wouldn't disagree either. I think the Bill's intent is to help consumers differentiate. It may be up to the consumer to be smart (caveat emptor) but we must also consider that half the population is below average/median intelligence. :rolleyes:

As usual with politics, there seems to be a lot of dis/mis-information and fear mongering at work (not by anyone here).

Doc

I believe this is old news. P5P is still available OTC. P5P works well for us.

Pyridoxamine does not come up on FDA RX Orange Book list either. Sure is taking a long time to be approved.
The drug is still not available...

More about its complex journey here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyridoxamine

IMO pyridoxal 5 phosphate is still OTC and available and reasonably priced.

Thanks for the details.

Another version: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyridox...atory_Activity

This is a really bad precedent. IF...
...THEN somebody really dropped the ball, or this particular vitamer was not being marketed as a supplement at the time (I don't know that it was or wasn't). However, if it was not being marketed as a supplement at the time, then it could not have been "yanked off the market" as alleged, and would/should have no bearing on supplements we (collective "we") are taking currently. :Dunno:

Doc

Yes, FDA is still trying to get to that vitamin I think.

They really do want to control our choices. They prove it daily.

Back when the first drug company started, very little was known about "active" forms of B6. I started posting about a decade ago on another forum venue for PN about it. Only one or two companies even made it OTC (P5P). I used Solgar for years because it was one of the few and enteric coated.

NOW also makes it still.

The research into activated forms of vitamins is pretty new. And this pyridoxamine was not common back then, and I never saw it etc. It is also not the most active form of B6 anyway... P5P is.

I suspect this drug is not going to pan out profitably for the NEW owner of the version. This is basically not a big issue, as P5P remains available and useful. In the past some "coenzmated" forms of B6 were sold as mixtures (in other words not purified out). Once making P5P became easy and inexpensive, P5P became more commonly seen and began to attract attention of the OTC public.

The "medical food" industry, subcategory at the FDA... never really took off. Most insurances didn't accept them (like Metanx) and doctors did not understand most of them. Limbrel was one other failure in this category. These failures rather illustrate that Big Pharma won't eagerly try to make their own supplements, IMO.
http://www.pdrhealth.com/drugs/limbrel

What this amendment was trying to address were:
1)Adulterated herbal products containing dangerous RX drugs like digoxin, phenylbutazone, estrogens, etc.

2)Anabolic steroids and steroid precursors abused by body builders and teens working out.

3) OTC erectile dysfunction herbal mixtures that contained Viagra as an illegal additive.

4) diet pills with dangerous drugs added.

Things like this list.

They just need to concentrate on the drugs that have done so much to so many people. The numbers are staggering. SO many things to address, they need to move on.

http://www.naturalnews.com/035976_**...ts_Senate.html

i think this is exactly what government should be doing. requiring the listing of ingredients is the only way that consumers can make a rational informed choice. i fail to see what freedoms are being given up because of a listing of ingredients.

The problem is that they already do that and more rules will take supplement away very quickly. They do plenty. They need to concentrate on dangerous meds. and stop trying to control and make money. Supplements are needed to heal.

Not all supplements are safe either depending on what else you are taking and on what's in the supplement. That's why you let your doctor know everything that you are taking.

And the companies that make supplements are making mega bucks. Go into any store where they sell supplements and there are rows and rows of them; not to mention the ones sold on-line.

That's not to say that the companies who make prescription drugs aren't making money because they are. Also it costs them mega bucks to put a drug out there. That would be just one reason why there is no cure/treatment at the moment for CMT and other diseases which are considered orphan diseases.

Interesting site:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewh...ing-new-drugs/

Just like everything, especially toxic meds, even Tylenol etc, you do have to research if you have no good doctors that understand supplements. Some day all doctors will be integrative and all people will be able to learn more. There are just so many great places to learn and SO many doctors do know how to actually heal thankfully. Brands do matter.

Hi sally
 

What bill is this that is being voted on and where? I was just put on supplements for the first time in my life to try and help. Is the Gov. trying to stop us from using these? ginnie:eek::hug:

It was defeated again. Durbin has tried it before. Here is a link about it. Just 20 Dem. senators voted for it. 77 against. Thankfully, it is once again over.

http://www.anh-usa.org/durbin-amendment-defeated/

thank you, all of you
 

Doc. sally, Mrs.D, all who responded to this issue. The amount of research and information you give are a blessing to this site. I am so grateful for the time all of you take to investigate these matters, and present them to this forum. From my own view point, the drug companies are corrupt. I rode the RX Express to Canada about 5 years ago, to protest our Government not dealing with the manufactures of the drugs. I think this corruption spreads right down to the vitamines as there is money to make. That is just my opinion, as I saw how Canada does it. ginnie

Prescription drugs
 

They are cheaper in Canada for a variety of reasons. A good article explaining it.

http://drugs.about.com/od/faqsabouty...nada_cheap.htm

Hi Kitt
 

I was lucky to go on that train ride. I am still involved with the same organization that sponsered that trip. It is a consumer advocasy group out of california. They work to help senior citizens afford their medications, and fight the Gov. for not dealing fairly over the cost of scripts. During the 4 years it took for me to get disability, it was 40 grand to keep me alive. This is not fair to do to people. No health insurance plus medical trauma = devistation to a person financially. ginnie

Prescription drugs
 

I put the site there so when people read the whole site they can see "why" prescription drugs are cheaper in Canada.