Question about curcumin
 

The information I find online about curcumin is confusing. I find websites saying it does cross the blood-brain barrier (http://www.naturalnews.com/035380_cu...ase_brain.html) ... others saying it does not (http://www.doctortipster.com/8831-cu...new-study.html).

This is kind of frustrating because many people might be taking curcumin to slow down PD, but if curcumin doesn't enter the brain it is a useless action.

My feeling is that curcumin doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier. Why ? I remember I raid articles about PD meds based on curcumin devised in such a way they could cross the blood-brain barrier. These meds are already used in (pre-)clinical tests for PD, ALS, AD, ... Another indication of the fact that it doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier is the fact some guy on some forum tried to use curcumin to help his mother with her starting dementia, however with no result at all. (Though I do realize that this is a sample with size 1 and therefore statistically proving nothing.)

Anyone around that can confirm whether regular curcumin supplements do cross the blood-brain barrier or not ?

Here is an article about CNB-001, a new med derived from curcumin. A new derivative was supposed to be made for curcumin to cross the blood-brain barrier.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12409700

In pre-clinical testing some positive results were obtained using curcumin after stroke:

http://www.naturalproductsinsider.co...e-effects.aspx

Nothing is simple about PD
 

Inflammation, which plays a big role in PD, causes the BBB to leak. The leaky BBB permits more curcumin to enter the CNS. The increased curcumin lessens the inflammation and decreases the leakiness. It is almost a feedback control. Pretty cool. See Blood brain barrier in hypoxic-ischemic conditions.

Bbb
 

Hi Diego4,
The vast majority of publications state curcumin passes the BBB.
see a quick search.


http://www.google.co.uk/webhp?source...iw=591&bih=384

In scientific articles, this sort of confusion is all too common. You can only see which view is held by the great majority.
Ron

@reverett: The BBB might be damaged and some kind of feedback control can occur. But that doesn't mean the right amount of curcumin will enter to protect the neurons effectively. I wonder whether curcumin can cross the BBB in healthy people.

@ronhutton: Though I agree with you that the majority of websites claim curcumin to cross the BBB, still this is not enough to claim curcumin crossing the BBB. I did find several websites claiming curcumin doesn't cross the BBB. The following website claims that curcumin does cross the BBB but not sufficiently enough; which makes sense to why they developed curcumin based meds to cross the BBB:

http://www.nutritionhorizon.com/news...s-Disease.html

Some other interesting sites on curcumin:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2929771/
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2202/11/57

What makes me doubt about curcumin crossing BBB easily is the fact that some guy on some forum tried to give this to his mother to help her with her starting dementia; but he claimed it didn't work and told the curcumin reports are crap. I read studies about astaxanthin where people were taking this new anti-oxidant orally for 12 weeks. And their memory improved significantly. And I also now astaxanthin does cross the BBB. Curcumin has been shown to have the same effect ... but only in animal studies. So if this guy reports that it didn't work on his mother, than I have the feeling curcumin doesn't cross the BBB easily.

Curcumin that passes BBB
 

I recently posted on my blog a summary plus a link to an audio interview with a leading curcumin researcher at Baylor University who discusses the latest research on this and recommends using curcumin BCM-95 as being the best version with enhanced bioavailabity to cross the BBB. I apparently can't submit a link with this post but if you Google "parkinson's schappi curcumin bcm-95" you should be able to find it.

Hi, interesting topic.

Ron has been looking at curcumin for a long time, and in the east it has traditionally been part of treatments for neurological conditions. The info on BB permeability seems to indicate that things can pass to the PD brain than in people with undamaged brains. Neurologically impaired people with things like MS and PD are more vulnerable to inflammation, and infections can increase the symptoms they experience dramatically. Things like co-enzyme Q10 have been suggested as helping in neuroprotection with doctors prescribing them over many years in some cases, at quite an expense to patients. The problem with even thinking about neuroprotection is how to you actually evaluate it? Especially in something as individual as PD. So the only measure is against other patients - in the long term. Curcumin is somewhat in this category, I think. Unlike ldopa for instance it does not have fast effects, nor was it ever likely to. But it may have subtle effects that would not be seen in a 12 week period, but over a year or two years it may reap rewards, over ten years the person may be taking less medication and doing better than his/her peers. If there are many people like this then you could say, yes it is neuroprotective, especially given the slow rate of progression in most people with idiopathic PD.

Curcumin is derived from turmeric, which is used in many preparations in ayurvedic medicine for antiseptic and anti-inflammatory properties, among other things. And of course in cooking.

Everyone wants pills that have an instant magic bullet effect, but those that do often have side effects that are intolerable. In fact it is often said that the therapeutic effect is itself a side effect that may have positive as well as negative results.

Dementia is a difficult and hard to treat condition that is only just coming to be understood. If there is something that is known to help it makes sense to take that, but you may also want to take something that has a less definable effect that supports brain. They are different things. You cannot compare them on a like for like basis, as with something that has specifically been found to be suitable for dementia.

Only when drugs have been on the market for sometime and used consistently for a given condition is it possible to see what is really happening. That is why there are stage 4 studies in live human populations.

Sadly there are no quick fixes for PD at this time. The medications are tough to get used to and have loads of unwanted effects. Other than medications the best thing in early PD is to keep moving. As much as possible.

Curcumin bioavailability
 

I think the confusion of whether curcumin passes the BBB or not ,lies in the health of the BBB you are testing. If you say 100 % represents the low permeability of a healthy person, and 60% represents a typical advanced PWP,then this difference may show curcumin doesn't pass the 100% membrane, but does pass the 60%. As far as I am aware, not one of the researchers who publish on pass or no pass, have measured the permeability of the BBB they are testing. I have managed 3 research centres in my time, in the USA and UK. This is the sort of fundemental error that is typical of your average researcher.

Ron

@gleeson: Very interesting. I searched for the compound you mentioned and found the following interesting article:

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/...urcumin_01.htm

I don't know whether this compound can already be bought by people. Do you have any idea of this ?

Epic4Health also has this:

http://www.epic4health.com/cuul500mgena.html

There is also the LongVida liposomal delivery type, which is supposed to be the "state of the art" form:

http://www.longvida.com/index.php
This costs more obviously.

Some thoughts on curcumin's bioavailability...
 

First, remember that the permeability of the BBB varies with one's environment, general health, stress load, etc. If we are looking for an absolute cutoff point we are doomed to fail because the playing field is fluid. Second, more is not necessarily better. Some studies have found that "x" grams has a certain effect but that "2x" grams has the opposite effect. And third, some researchers have suggested that the magic comes not from the turmeric but rather from its metabolites which may have much different properties.

I don't disagree with that. But if the optimal dosis is 10 mg but only 0.002 mg gets through the injured BBB, then you will have almost no results. Enough dosis has to pass the BBB to be effective.

Still, it doesn't say that you get enough metabolites in your brains to be effective. You might or you might not.

In fact, I read a bit more now and I do have the feeling that the normal curcumin probably isn't that effective for PD. If PD patients want to use curcumin effective, I think they should be taking the new curcumin compound they designed.

Maybe turmeric can pass through the intestinal nervous system
 

Turmeric/curcumin has been an important part of our diet the last couple of years because of all the amazing research and possibly hope it holds for Parkinson’s disease, Alzheimer’s disease and cancers. The big question has been the blood brain barrier-at least for Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s. For cancers it seems that the turmeric/curcumin travels along the digestive system track and lands in the intestines, liver and hopefully other organs.

The research just posted from Rush University Medical Center hypothesizes that maybe Parkinson’s starts in the colon where they find alpha synuclein plaques in the nerves embedded in that system. If that is truly the case, then isn’t it possible that turmeric/curcumin can then be transferred from the intestines to those nerves which connect to the spinal cord and cortex without needing to pass through the blood brain barrier? My science background is very lacking so I am posing this question in the hopes of someone being able to answer this question.

Additionally Dr. Greg Cole, from UCLA, has done extensive research in India where he traveled trying to find answers to Alzheimer’s and turmeric. He stated that in autopsies of Indian men there was a slight yellowish cast to their brains (and youthful cortex cell densities) that was missing in British men. He hypothesized that this came from their turmeric diet. Additionally the Alzheimer’s rate in India is stated to be about a quarter of our rates and this is believed to be credited to turmeric. Kathrynne Holden, of Ask the Nutritionist, stated that Ayurvedic medicine has used turmeric for centuries. Of course there were no curcumin herbal supplements in their diets so it seems highly likely that turmeric was the effective agent.

i am on a curcumin supplement right now. i really dont know much about the negative effects - all i've read about are testimonials of how great it is because of its nano-tech thingy. has anyone tried this product called Genus Serum by X-Lab? please help.
thank you so much.

OK, I'll help.
 

I did a little looking and my advice is to stay away from that particular product. It smells like a MLM scam. Using the current currency rates they are trying to take you for about $ 100 for a small bottle. Go to a good health food store and look for NOW or Jarrow brands and let the Malaysian hucksters fleece someone else.

You have to be very carefull with these statements. I also read that people living in the north have higher probability of getting Parkinson because of lack of vitamine D (less sun). This could also explain why Indian men have less Parkinson than British.