The "you dont know what you saw" arguement
 

Do folks do this because we have MS? or do they do it because they are rude? or because your opinion matters so little or theirs matters so much? either way it grinds my gears and is a huge pet peeve of mine. let me explain.

lets say I am out walking. I pass a neighbor. I tell her about the most beautiful flowers I saw earlier on top of the hill. "wonderful pink posies!" and she will say "they are not pink, they are orange" Um..well...the ones I saw were pink. the response is "well i hate to tell you this but posies dont come in pink, only orange!" with me saying "perhaps I didnt see a posie then, but it was a nice PINK flower. with the response of "ive been up that mountain a hundred times and never saw a pink flower. to which i respond well there are PINK flowers TODAY!

Dont you hate when someone wants to tell you what it was you saw, or felt or experienced? is it an MS thing? do folks think that because I am suffering that I dont know what I am talking about?

I told a friend each time I go to X city the ice cream window is very crowded. her response "its not crowded there there is never anyone at the window" my response was "each time I go there, its crowded. maybe its the time of day or time of season, but I have yet to see it not crowded." her response was "well since the new ice cream place went in around the corner there are never any crowds. perhaps you havent been there since, but the crowds are not gone" I say "great! they got a new place, but last time I saw it, it was very crowded."

WHY????!!!! I used two examples but this problem seems to be following me. From what color something is to the price of something, to my experience with a company or person or event. WHY???!!!! OMG im gonna lose it if folks keep telling me how I am supposed to feel, or what I did or didnt see or even the "how are you feeling?" with my answer of "im kinda dragging lately, im trying to get out there, but its been hard" followed by the "well I see you out walking quite a bit, so it cant be that bad" OMG! I swear, someone needs to start collecting bail money cause im gonna snap!

Folks NEVER treated me this way before MS. I am always treated with respect, kindness, and believed when I say its snowing outside folks believe its snowing outside! Do they think I have gone off the deep end cause I have MS? Does anyone else experience this?

I think people do that because they're jerks, and quite possibly you have more than your fair share of jerks nearby where you live. (Jerks seem to cluster and group themselves together sometimes)

Maybe you'll get lucky and some of them will move away to go annoy other people. (just dont send them anywhere near me)

YES! My sis the nurse has an explanation for whatever I feel. My nuro would tell me that whatever was not ms related. My husband would argue that my only problem is me! "But you look fine.". Sometimes I think the combination of drugs makes me see more and better than the normal people. I too have had to let it go or I would hurt someone!

Jerk's Question: What is your favorite color?

My Answer: Green

Jerk's Response: WRONG!

I guess some folks are just jerks.

I'm guessing we all know a few people like that. I had a couple of customers who just about drove me crazy until I learned to let it go. If I said, "What great weather!" one man would say, "Nooooooo, it's too dry, we need the rain." If I said, "Nice to have a little rain," he'd say, "Nooooo, farmers have hay down." If I said I saw a robin, he'd say, "Nooooo, too early, you must have seen a bluejay." Or whatever.

I used to "argue" with them, prove my point. Now I say, let them be the fool. I've learned with those people you just have to let them win BEFORE you get to the edge. Unless it's a matter of life or death, I just say, "You're probably right", and change the subject.

These types of folks are beyond help.

Save your aggravation and don't give them any ammunition. They want someone to argue with. Don't be that person.

It takes two to argue and if you refuse to let them draw you into their game they'll be left talking to themselves! :p

I have to say that I've not had this happen, but it doesn't make your experience invalid.

If I perceive the color as orange and you see it as pink, both perceptions are valid.

If you are fatigued and I recall you with more energy, both things are real.

My suggestion is to show them that there is enough room for both things to be true. Since we are separate people our experiences are different.

Neither should expect the other the to see it exactly their way.

Or you could say something like, "well one of us is nuts, that's for sure"..:D:p:D

i have noticed that a lot more people are miserable and unkind these days. most of them don't attack me in the manner you describe, just the people at Bible Study who think I'm eccentric because I don't think EXACTLY the way they do, so I am going to avoid them. This means I won't see many people. Tonight I'll take another walk outside and if I see anyone they will either be nice or ignore me, the typical way peeps behave here.
I agree, Dej, that your community must be peopled with persons who are highly stressed and have succumbed to it. Flailing out. It is all so tragic. It's all I can see now, as i look out on my world: tragedy.
Of course there IS a rabbit washing her face in my yard...she's OK, not tragic, just beautiful.

I suppose it could be called invalidation. The responses from people who negate you this way is invalidating.

But these people you talk to also strike me as "crazy making".... another term for that is gaslighting.(making you doubt your own perceptions and observations/reality).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

In any event it is THEM and not you. Just keep that perspective.
At least the subjects so far are rather small and benign.

I'd just smile and say "Hello" or some such whenever these troublesome people need to be greeted.

I don't admit it with just everyone because I don't to cause an argument with everyone. But sometimes I will speak up when it is my husband. There are times when we are talking when I here something that he doesn't say. Instead of arguing about it I just tell him that with my MS I percieved it was such and such even though he said it in a different way.

Tonight we were in Walgreens and as I walked past this liqour display I would swear it was talking to me. It was the same voice by the potato chips. As we were leaving I went by the liqour and it wasn't talking to me. The old woman watching me thought I was a little strange with my eaqr towards the display but I was satisfied. Oh, I have never drank anything of any kind of liqour so I know it wasn't calling me. I don't even think I am spelling liqour correctly!

With my MS there ARE times that I am not sure about what I saw. There are times I cant remember what I saw, so when I DO speak up, you can bet your bottom dollar I am SURE of what I saw, and I dont need some busy body to tell me im wrong.

#1 isnt that RUDE? when someone tells you something to tell them they are wrong?

#2 how can they possibly know what you did or didnt see? I KNOW what my fav color is, why would you want to tell me I dont know my own mind?

#3 it makes someone who is sick and struggling NOT want to talk to you! then you get upset that I dont stop when I am walking to chew the fat with you. Well, if you call me a liar half the day you bet your bippy I dont want to talk to you.

its not one person in my circle that does it. lately its several and when the DH jumped on the bandwagon I blistered him. I told him I was hearing that nonsense from others and he didnt need to mimic the bad neighbors. He apologized and hasnt done it since.

I think that perception is relative and personal; so mostly I allow others theirs.
For example:
Pooh to an adult human is disgusting...to a baby it is play dough....to a dung beetle it is a palatial home.

But if someone insists on trying to make their perception the only one that is valid, with a light heart, I might ask them what the color of the sky is in their world. That usually causes them to pause or slows them up a bit.

If they persist beyond that, there is always this good line:
"Sometimes it is better to remain silent and appear the fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."

In the end, it usually isn't worth debating with someone on differences of perception...especially if their's is so limited that it has needed to be pointed out. Some are just so blind, that they just can't see even that.

I have found that to smile sympathetically in their direction and then to carry on is the best punctuation to such conversations.

Maybe she doesn't want anyone to talk to her. Maybe she's thinking "Why do all these people tell me things that aren't true?"

I've found that if you give jerks an opportunity to be a jerk, they'll take it. Maybe having MS has made you more aware of this!

I think some people take the opposite side of a subject as a way of furthering the conversation. They do not realize they are killling it instead. I have a boss that disagrees with everything I say. I quit tallking to her unless I absolutely have to. It really hampers communication.

My ususal response;

Well, if I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong!

I think you may have touched on something. This happens frequently from my nosy neighbor and I am fed up with her. she is a know-it-all and isnt afraid to tell you so. (yes, the one that ruined my b/d surprise) and there are a few others that simply have rubbed me raw and I DONT want to hear their opinion, ideas, or advice.

I walk everyday that I can. I swear a few of them see me out walking and make a bee line to tend their flower gardens on the street edge. I even got a set of bright blue headphones to wear as a signal to say CANT HEAR YOU! so I try to wave, and keep going. So many times they make the motion to "come here, I wanted to tell you something" I have said "let me catch you on the way back please" or "im in a hurry I have an appointment and I will be late if I stop to talk, sorry. but they make the come here motion wider and higher. UGH! NO!

I think there is truth in the finding that with those we like we are willing to put up with much more bad behavior than from those we dislike. I swear, this one woman has simply caused me to think about raising bail money. She called me yesterday 4 times to tell me about her dermatology issues. I explained that I have a fever, bladder infection and am in bed, can we do this later, only to have her launch into how many sun burns she has suffered in the past. I think THIS woman set me up to be less tolerant when others do it, because im so tired of HER doing it! Cant see the caller ID in the dark in my room without glasses and I couldnt believe it when I picked up the 4th time and it was her!

So, I will try to bite my tongue, and not stop when I am walking.

our house phone has an audio caller id. Someone calls us, it tells us who it is in a nice flat computer voice. Very handy to have around. That way I can ignore all the annoying people.

or... you could flippantly mutter what the resident teenager says when wanting out of a convo: "What-everrrr"

:D