My son two head concussion& now faints HELP
 

Hello, everybody

I was hoping that someone on here can help me. My son has had two head injuries two months apart. With the last concussion he blacked out and came to mins later. My son has had seizures, But, all of the test have come back normal.(MRI,EEG,CT scan) I son has the mood problems and headaches, sleep problems and very sensitive. He now faints. Sometimes severe times a day. He's hitting his head and hurting his self even more. I know that PCS can take a while to heal from. But, no where can I find that people faint after a couple concussions. How any of you fainted or know someone who faints after a concussion? If so what did you do for it? What was your diagnoses? My son has seen Neurologist, but still I have no answers. I NEED TO KNOW HOW TO HELP MY SON, HE ONLY 8 AND HIS LIFE NOT THE SAME BECAUSE OF THIS. PLEASE HELP.

canina,

Welcome to NeuroTalk. I am so sorry to hear of another youngster dealing with concussions.

How do you know he is fainting rather than seizing? An EEG is not as reliable as many think. The inconsistent seizures often will not manifest on an EEG.

How is his blood pressure and pulse? Does it drop to low levels? Do you have a home BP test kit? Sometimes, the autonomic nervous system malfunctions allowing the BP and pulse to drop very low. It can be caused by an upper neck injury that causes inflammation that interrupts the nerve signals to the heart.

Symptoms like these will likely take a lot of observing him by you. The doctors can only schedule a test. You can see the situation before and after one of these events.

If he continues to fall, ask if he can wear a portable EEG and pulse Ox to help determine what is happening. How long does it take for him to regain consciousness?

Does he relate any feeling he has just before and after these episodes?

You may want to have him wear a helmet until you get these episodes under control. Adding more impacts to an injured brain will only make it worse.

How did he get hurt each time? Maybe something from his injury is being missed.

My best to you.

Child faint after head injury
 

My son first injury was when he fall off the monkey bars at school. He hurt his ankle and was put on crushes. A couple days after being put on crushes he was out with me at a store and slipped and fall backwards and hit his head on the hard floor. He hurt his neck,back and hit the back of his head. With that injury he had the peeing on his self not knowing it,headaches, vision problems,balance problems, and terrible personality changes.

Second injury came about a month later. He fell backwards again out of a bar stool and knocked his self unconscious for a while. not sure how long he was out, but when he came to he was screaming my name. He had a big knot on the back of his head. A day later he started having seizures. He was admitted into the hospital and had a 24hr EEG normal, MRI normal. So they said it was psychogenic. My son never had a problem before he hit his head. NO kind of psych issues at all. Now he is fainting. He will tell you that he feels a little weird before hand. He's only out a couple mins and he feels weird afterwards. He always says it feel like something is moving in his head. I not sure what that mean. I have not done the BP thing. But, thinks for suggesting that because now I will go get one.
I would like a helmet for him. But I don't know where to get one.

Thanks a lot for responding. Please keep sending your suggestions:)

canina,

I get near fainting episodes but don't exactly faint. Docs named it as pre-syncope. You can google about Syncope and one way of testing is TILT table test. I have not done that bcuz what I have may be anxiety, overstimulation, neck issues, seizures etc., My BP didn't go down for sure.

My friend's 7 year old daughter having this fainting episodes and with last one a month ago she hit her head and had a minor concussion. He immediately called me on his way to ER.

Now they have appointment with Pediatric Cardiologist and may be Pediatric Neurologist in a Children's hospital. Wait is 4 months!! This is a big city so they have options. I am not sure what your situations is.

Until then helmet is a MUST as Mark told. You can order online fast shipping if you cannot find a store nearby.

Peace.

Walmart and other stores that sell bikes have cute helmets that you can get for him.

His problem is not likely psychogenic. It is more likely idiopathic. Psychogenic means he causes them from withing his head/thinking. Idiopathic means the doctor does not know why he has them. Doctors rarely use the term idiopathic because it means they do not know something. Another term used is somatic or somatoform. It means real but of unknown origin. Psycho-somatic or psycho-somatoform which means caused by a psychological cause. Some docs use the last two interchangeably but in error.

Docs and mild head injuries are a bad mix. Do you homework and you will likely learn more.

The personality changes are his injury. If you can, try to help him understand that he is safe and secure. I believe many of the personality changes are the brain over-reacting to a sense of confusion. I have undergone personality changes a few times after head injuries.

If he has regular friends, they need to understand that his outbursts and other abnormal behaviors are his brain messing up and that they have nothing to do with how he feels about/toward them. .

If you want to PM or email me, i will give you some suggestions for these struggles.

I went through this at 10 years old. i know how much of a struggle it can be.

My best to you.

Thank you Mark for your suggestions. I would like more info about how to help him, but I'm new to this site and don't know how to PM or email on here.

Email or PM's need to be enabled in your User CP. It is the left most link in the blue bar at the top. Set your settings to allow email and PM's .

You can email or PM me by left clicking on my screen name and a drop down box will allow you to click a PM link.

Hello, Mark
I have made it to where you can email me. Could u? To let me know about how to help my son with is different personality.
thxs

concussion clinic
 

My son went back to the concussion clinic for the second time. The doctor told me to take him back to his PCP doctor, because my son symptoms is out of his expertise and that none of his questions they asked on that sheet of paper you fill out, the score didn't go down any from the first visit. No one can tell me why my son now faints. I don't know where else to look for answers. :confused: Nobody seem to know what's wrong with him.

It sounds like the doc at the concussion clinic uses the SCAT or other questionaire. To me, that concussion clinic has very limited expertise in concussion. It is very problematic to use a self-reporting questionaire for someone as young as your son.

Has he been tried with any anti-seizure meds? Just because he did not have a positive EEG does not mean he would not benefit from an anti-seizure med. The 24 hr EEG may not have been long enough for the episode to repeat.

Hope this helps.

My best to you.

Low BP
 

My son did have a 72 EEG and had a couple fainting moments on there. But, the neurologist said test results was normal. Because when he fainted there was no brain wave pattern change. His Nero doc didn't say anything about putting him on anti-seizure meds. They told me nothing is wrong with him:mad:, when it is.

Today my son fainted and I took his BP right after. It was 93/46 pulse 94 while sitting. Now that is low for a 8yr old? If I'm wrong somebody please correct me.

Hi,

I can relate to this, I have fainted several times since my latest concussion 3 years ago.

I have tried diet changes (salt), had my BP checked, had an EEG (showed seizure patterns but no seizures), holter monitor etc.

My vestibular therapist also mentioned what Mark has said about the autonomic system and blood pressure. For now I take precautions if I am not feeling well, am tired, etc as I tend to feel much dizzier and black out. I had also done some research why I would convulse after fainting, which seemed to be related to blood pressure as well.

I hope that you find some answers.

Normal values for pediatrics ... http://www.emedicinehealth.com/pedia...article_em.htm

Canina

I am the mother of a young man who has had seizures since he was 6 years old. His seizures are simple & complex partial, plus secendary generalized seizures. Mark is stating things very well.

What I would suggest, is that you ask the pediatrician to send you to
a pediatric neurologist. Explaining that he could be having complex partial seizures.

Honestly if he were having the kind of fainting type things the doctor is saying. He would not be having them off of a stool or other things that
he could be hurt.

Also I would find a phychologist for him so that he can talk to someone
about how he feels about what is going on. Its easier for them to explain
that its okay for him to feel scared and other things. And they can explain
that you do too.

Really we all need someone besides our parents to talk to about these things.

My son saw a psychologist and psychiatrist so he could talk about things.

But he also had hallucinations for a while and had to have some special
medications. So it was necessary.

But it was the best decision we made.

So please get a good childrens neurologist.

Donna:grouphug::hug:

Low BP
 

Thanks for the site. My son age group is:
6-12 yr pulse:60-95 BP:100-120/60/75 Respiratory Rate:14/22

So his is low @ 93/46-BP

His BP sounds a bit low while comparably his pulse sounds a bit high.

I had a period 10 years ago where I fell asleep in the car during a long ride. My head was hanging forward for a long time. I was very weak when I woke up. It was almost two weeks before I could get my BP above 80-90/40-50. My pulse was routinely in the 50's to 60's. I could barely get up out of a chair without falling over.

autonomic system
 

Did you ever find out what was going on with your fainting? Was it your autonomic system? What doctor do you go to to check your autonomic system? I truly believe that is what is wrong with my son. But, because my husband is military it's hard to get a referral and and get it done quickly.

seizures
 

Today my son started having is shacking of hands and fingers and stiff arms. Then he went into a full blown seizure of his whole body shacking. Now I have been told that these are not seizure's. But, he did this when he first hit his head also and now there back. He don't see the neuro until oct 1st. I just want to cry, because it seems that nobody will ever find out what's wrong with him.

Did you call the doctor about his 'seizure?'

How long did this episode last?

Do you have a way to make a video recording of these episodes? Most digital cameras have a video mode that is almost as good as a video camera. Some good evidence would be helpful.

I can't imagine how tough it is to watch him do this.

My best to you.

Hello Canina,
I wish I had some good information to give you, but I don't. I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone. My daughter sustained a mild concussion this past January and again in April. She was not unconscious in either case, but after the 2nd concussion she has been regularly vomiting and fainting. We also went to a the concussion clinic and they told us the same thing - that it was out of their area of expertise. We also saw a cardiologist who determined that she does have a drop in blood pressure when she goes from sitting to standing, which could contribute to the fainting. She referred her to a neurologist, however, and I am hoping to get the "tilt table" test that some other people have referred to, to clarify if positional changes are at the root of the fainting. We see the neurologist on Tuesday and if we get any helpful information, I'll let you know.

Please keep me posted. Thank you

Anti-Seizure meds
 

My son goes to the Neurologist Monday. I want to see if they will put him on anti-seizure meds. Have anybody else child been on any? If so what name?

When I was 16, I was put on Dilantin (phenytoin) then switched to phenobarbital. I went off it but needed to go back on it a few times.

I take Neurontin (gabapentin) now to prevent seizure like activity when I sleep.

follow up on my daughter's neurologist appt
 

Hi Canina,
My daughter went to the neurologist last week and she seemed to think she probably has a problem with her autonomic nervous system (the part of your nervous system that controls things like heartrate and breathing), which is causing the fainting.

She has ordered autonomic testing, which we won't have until Septemer. Meanwhile, she has to drink 64oz of water/day and eat as much salt as possible - the idea is to increse her blood volume, so that it gets to her brain when she stands up, more blood (and therefore oxygen) gets to her head, so she doesn't faint and get naseous.

Her guess was that my daughter had this pre-concussion, because even before the concussions, she often got dizzy and had her vision start to go black when she stood up, however, she never actually fainted. The doctor thinks the second concussion might have just aggravated her nervous system enough so that it's worse now.

My daughter has not had anything that looks like seizures. I don't know if that's any indication that what is going on with her is completely different than your son or not, but I thought I'd mention it. I hope your appt with the neurologist goes well.

Lori

LoriZ,

How did your daughter get her 2 concussions?

Does he play sports? Which sports?

Does she always have this fainting feeling when she stands up or does it come and go?

If the pieces fall together, I may have some ideas for you to check out.

My best to you.

Hi Mark,
Thanks. No, she does not currently play any sports. She also has a condition called Complex Regional Pain Syndrome (aka Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy), which is a neurological pain syndrome that also has an autonomic component. It causes constant intense pain in her leg. Both concussions came from falls related to the leg pain.

She does not always feel faint upon standing. She also, on occasion, becomes faint just sitting or lying, which is particularly puzzling.

I welcome any new ideas. Thanks!

Lori

For seizures my son has taken just about every kind for complex and simple
seizures.

When your child is put on one I can talk to you about the specific one.

Its easier that way for me.

Donna:grouphug::hug:

I was wondering if she has had a upper neck injury at some point in her life. I have a problem with my right leg. It likes to twitch and do other annoying things. All of the evidence leads me to believe it is related to my whiplash head injury in 2001 and/or possibly an assault 1 1/2 years prior.

I get these strange symptoms when I allow my head to tilt forward or forward and to the right for an extended period of time.

These types of injuries can manifest from birth or a variety of childhood activities. The problem is finding someone with a willingness to look for the cause and have a way to treat it.

possible neck injury
 

Hi Mark,
I don't believe she has had a previous neck injury and a sore neck did not seem to be a problem with either concussion. Thank you for the idea, though.

Lori

Hi Canina,
How did the neurologist appt go?

Lori

seizure meds
 

His doctor put him on topamax. He also has headaches a lot. So they put him on topamax which is suppose be anti-seizure med but they put him on it for his headaches. His neurologist dosen't seem to think that it is seizures that my son is having. He dosen't seem to know what it is. I asked if his ANS could be messed up and he said he didn't think so:confused:. So I still have no answers for my son. He will start his med on tue, b/c he has to wait till after one of his studies is done.

Have anybody else had two concussions and say they want to hurt themselves? My son say's these things and I don't know why.

I had horrible struggles with suicidal ideation and even some comments to others after my severe concussion at 10 years old. I was trying to figure out how to make it look like an accident.

Have you looked around for a different neurologist?

South Carolina has a Brain Injury Trust Fund. Check out http://www.sciway.net/quick/mentalhealth.html to see if there is a reference to specialized help.

Also check out http://ddsn.sc.gov/consumers/divisions/Pages/HASCI.aspx

Also, check out the South Carolina Brain Injury Association at http://www.biausa.org/SC/

A doctor is not going to be his advocate. You need to do that yourself until you find a specialized advocate.

Hope you can find some good help.

Did you understand why u felt that way, did you have to take meds?

I was completely clueless. My parents were too. My father thought my threats were just bluffs based on weakness or misbehavior.

I had no follow up care after my head injury. I was discharged after three days in the hospital with no instructions to my mom. That was 1965.

I lost all of my friends and roller coastered through depression and academics. It was a miserable few years.

Hi Canina,
I don't know if it's directly related to the head injury (i.e. some sort of physical change causing the suicidal thoughts), but even if there is no 100% physical cause, just being sick can be depressing for anyone, especially children, and especially when it seems that none of the adults know what's wrong with you, much less how to make you better. My daughter was in a 3 week intensive treatment program for chronic pain and every kid there was on an anti-depressant. Many had suicidal thoughts and a few had made attempts. I agree with the other person (Donna, I think) that it would be good for him to be able to speak with a counselor to help him cope with the emotions that come as a result of being ill.

Here's one more thought for finding a physician: the Dysautonomia Network has a listing of physicians. If there is a neurologist near you on the list, perhaps you could see them for a 2nd opinion. That way, if they also say that it is not the ANS, at least you can feel confident that someone who focuses on dysautonomia has also ruled it out: http://www.dinet.org/physicians.htm#United%20States

Lori

my son update
 

Update,my son has been seizure free for almost a year now. Since being put on topmax. I thought that everything was all better until lately he started having them again. I wonder could this be seasonal triggered?