New PN Treatment
 

It's called an Integrated Nerve Block. It's two procedures.

I did a search on this forum to see if this has been discussed before and I can't find any thread that has this topic (maybe I'm incorrect) but I thought I would share this info would you all. This sounds VERY PROMISING

Here is a link to one of the websites and there are photos and explanations.

http://www.sewnc.net/est.html

I'm trying to find one in NYC that does this. There is a clinic in Long Island called the Osteo Relief Institute that does this (I found their ad in today's Daily News). Went to their website and they are a pain relieving clinic that does this but we can't get to Long Island.

We can go to NYC and I'm trying to find a place where this might be done. I googled this and can't find any of the NYC hospitals that offer this particular treatment.

Alan has had nerve blocks and epidurals and trigger point injections in the toes and nothing worked.

But this combined two procedure thing, well, it looks hopeful.

What do you all think?

Thanks, Melody

Looks interesting.

I'd ask at RSD too...they get all sorts of "blocks" there.

I'd search further, as the comment ... all neuropathy pain is gone!

I wonder if that is totally "lasting" or only for a while?

Here is another link :

http://www.practicalpainmanagement.c...cal-anesthetic

I called the pain management department of Columbia and asked questions. When I said I'm interested in finding a physician who does integrated nerve blocks aka InB (that was mentioned in the article too), she said "hold on, I'll ask the doctor'. She came back after sometime and said "This is very interesting the doctor wants to get some information on this, he's going to look into this".

She took my name, etc, and said she would get back to me.

So as soon as I hear ANYTHING, you will also.

Melody

Mrs. D. I went to google and typed in Pain Management, Brooklyn, NY and Maimonides Pain Management Department popped up so I gave them a call.

Spoke to one of the staff and I had the other website in front of me that explained the Integrated Nerve Block. I read all the information to her.

She said: "Wow, never heard of this, let me tell the doctor (he was away), she said "Can you give us a call tomorrow?"

So obviously, there is NEWER pain management techniques that even the pain managment guys never heard of??

wow

Melody

Medicine is VERY conservative and will not embrace new ideas.

Since this comes from a podiatrist...it might be unacceptable even. That is why I sent you the other link, that includes spinal pain patients.

It would be wonderful if it worked well, and our PN posters could benefit! Wonderful is an understatement! It would be more like a MIRACLE!:D

Well, thankfully, as I was reading her the description of the integrated nerve block, I never mentioned that it came from a podiatrist. I just described the procedure. Now, when they go on the internet and they look this up, and the pain management guy says to himself "Oh, a podiatrist invented this, forget it!!", well, if that happens, we are all doomed.

Will update if I hear ANYTHING.

Melody

Maybe if ALL the PN'rs, go to their private pain management guys and say "hey, I just heard of this new pain management technique called an INTEGRATED NERVE BLOCK, can you look into this for me"?

Maybe then?????

Mel

This, I think--
 

--is the most relevant section from the second article--the section that attempts to explain the mechanisms of action.

There are several mechanisms that explain the mechanism of analgesia:

Under the influence of rapidly alternating polarity electrical signal energy fields, ion movement is enhanced, and this tends to balance high-concentration differences in metabolites; these effects promote pH normalization and reduction in tissue acidosis;

Second messenger formation (cAMP) directs all cell-specific activity toward cell membrane repair, inhibiting arachidonic acid release from insulted membranes and subsequent prostaglandin (pain mediator) cascade;
Specific electric signal energy parameters produce repeated excitation of afferent nerve fibers, affecting neuronal signaling processes in the central nervous system (CNS) and interfering with local pain perception (gate-control theory);

Electric cell signaling assists in cell receptor uptake of β-endorphin, encephalin, and phyllokinin, which modulate or inhibit pain impulses in the CNS; and

The application of higher-dose, higher-frequency EST electric cell signals fall within the absolute refractory period of the cell membrane, inducing a sustained depolarized state across multiple nodes of Ranvier and inhibition (block) of axon information (pain signal) transport.


While reducing acidosis is nothing to be sneezed at, my suspicion is that the most important aspect here is that once the nerves are "primed" by the anesthetic application, the randomly fluctuating signals from the electrical device keep the nerve from re-accomodating to the firing pattern that was producing pain by maintaining the chemical changes in the nerve that the anesthetic started (mostly ion concentrations across the cell membranes). So, in essence, this is boosted, souped up, primed TENS.

The REAL questions are how long the effects last once the electrical stimulator is removed, AND can repeated applications of this produce a 'new" accomodation that would be less painful--a new normal in nerve firing patterns.

Well, SOMEONE has to be a guinea pig here and if we find one that is not too far from our house, I bet you that Alan would try it.

I shall update if I hear or learn anything more.

Glenn, we'll miss you at the meeting this Thursday.

Melody

I am in long Island. Do you have the number to the place there?

Also, mine is in my upper back. Did they mention if it could be done there?

I don't know if I still have their ad, but I went to google and found this

http://www.osteoreliefinstitute.com/

Since they have more than one location, I think if you put your address where they tell you, then you'll be directed to the closest one to you.

And if I find that ad, I'll be sure to post their phone number on this site.

Melody

Found the ad. Here is the phone number listed in the ad.

631-240-4748

Hope you find relief.,
Melody

Thanks for info.
I just called the office. The Dr. name is Kenneth Rich. I have an appointment tomorrow at 3:00pm. I will let you know how I make out. He is just a regular MD. I am not sure if he would be able to do an injection in my upper back/neck C5-6 area nor would I necessarily want him since he is not an anesthesiologist.

Here is Rich’s info

http://www.ehealthscores.com/provide...ICH-MD-PC.html


This is the Doctor who came up with the treatment who is based in Nevada.

Here is his info

http://www.avvo.com/doctors/robert-odell-2256065.html


Here is a PDF version of info that was in the link Mrs. D provided.
http://www.outcomemedical.com/pdf/20...Anesthetic.pdf

Wow, thanks so much for the links.

And i hope tomorrow you get some answers. I'm sure the others who are following this thread will want to hear your experience also.

Best of luck

Melody

I just spoke to Dr. Odell on the phone. He was in the middle of training for some people in New York on the device and injection. He couldn’t talk very long but he told me to call him tomorrow as he will be flying back to NV and will be in the airport. He mentioned iff I couldn’t reach him he would call me back the following day. He did say its for foot neuropathies and not for the back or neck but it could be possibly adapted. I am going to cancel my appointment with Dr. Rich as there really is not point for me to see him now that I know this.

I will keep you posted but he did say he had good results with foot burning and he is trying to get the word out on this as its still very new. He also mentioned that he trained someone on 59th and Broadway in NYC. I will try and get more info when I talk to him.

Oh, I hope you can get the name and number of the perosn on 59th and Broadway who does this procedure. Alan can use this like YESTERDAY!!!

Very kind of you and thank you

Melody

I will make sure to get as much info in regards to the 59th and Broadway location.

Where do you live?

I live in brooklyn ny

And thanks much

Melodyi

I spoke to Dr. Odell and he said that he plans on training Drew Demanm who is the director of Manhatten Spine. He hasnt as of yet but you can call over there and ask to speak to Drew and get some info over the phone. I looked him up. Check the linked below.

http://manhattanspine.com/

If you want to talk to the doctor Robert Odell you can call him on his cell phone 702-521-9542 .

I suggest you do both. Let me know how your conversation goes with Dr. Odell.

HI. Thanks SO much.

Will update when I contact these people. I do all of this before Alan gets involved. I'm like his advocate.

I'll let you know what happens and if you get this double procedure, please do let us know, okay?

All the best

Melody

I am not going to get it as I can't afford to fly to Nevada and stay there for a couple of weeks. When you are dealing with the upper back/neck is more complex then the ankle and feet area.

Ah...I see.

Then I guess it's up to Alan and I to investigate this possibility.

I'll update when we do.

Thanks again

Melody

I just moved down to Florida and I'm going to see a new neurologist on Friday. If he turns out like all the rest of them I've seen, I'm going to call this guy O'Dell and see what's up, because my feet are the problem, and maybe this guy can help. I'll probably call him anyway. Thanks for the info on this line!

Brue

Best of luck Brue:

Keep us posted.

Melody

Hell yes. This stuff is 24/7 miserable. Found out my doctor in Md. couldn't call in a prescription for tramadol because in Md. it's a controlled substance, even though it's not in Florida. They said I would need to have him put a written prescription in my hand (couldn't mail it), which I would carry over to the pharmacy. Good luck with that, Brue!! Now I'm all out. See another neurologist on Friday, so we'll see if he can give me some. I don't care what else the guy does, so long as he does that. These doctors are useless - nobody cares about a cure, and they don't care if you suffer. O'Dell might be the ticket, because I surely can afford to go out there to get some relief from this affliction that never gets any better.

Incidentally, I was just looking into this treatment when this thread was started. I have just started this treatment on my feet. It is supposed to gradually heal your nerves each session and you can start noticing results within 1-2 weeks.

The Drs at the clinic I am going to met with Odell and learned from him. They said they have experienced 86% success rate in reducing/eliminating pain for people. They have not seen any negative effects from it, only that it doesn't produce any results for 14% of their patients. They said the treatment method is spreading and they are treating 15-20 patients a day. It is used at Cancer Centers of America for chemo-induced neuropathy with a 90-some percentage success rate. It is also FDA approved.

I am in the chicago area and there are supposed to be around 6 places around here that do this treatment now.

I will keep you updated.

Oh how exciting and please do keep us informed.

Best of luck, Melody

I figured it was time for an update, though I was hoping to give you better news. I have had 5 treatments with no change in symptoms. In fact, I have had a flare over the past week or so but I don't think it's from the treatment. We have halted the treatment as of yesterday because I am paying cash and it's expensive and not working. They did say one man didn't see results until the very end of a month's worth of treatments, which is how long they generally give it a try to see whether it's helping you or not.

I am back to blood testing for autoimmune issues because I have had more sensations elsewhere in my body in addition to more pain in my feet. I believe everything else has been eliminated. I have radically changed my diet to eliminate sugar and increase whole grains and vegetables, not that I had a horrible diet prior to the onset of the neuropathy one year ago. I have had MRIs and EMG/NCV and blood tests last fall with everything normal. I got off two medicines I was on for a long time in case they were the culprit.

I'm not sure if I want something to turn up now or not! On one hand, it would be helpful to have some sort of diagnosis, but on the other, no one wants to find out they have a disease.

You might want to try the gluten free diet, for at least 3 months and preferrably 6 or more. It can take a while to clear the gluten reaction.
Some people react to gluten with PN symptoms. Since you added whole grains to the diet, and had a flare, I'd seriously consider gluten as a trigger.

https://sites.google.com/site/jccglu...eralneuropathy

Since this appears to be the same treatment I posted about on "A new treatment my cousin is doing", you can follow my experience on that thread.

hmmm... this must another one of those hidden things like even if I've tested negative for celiac's, the neuropathy could be indicative of a sensitivity. Thanks for the link!

integrated nerve block
 

For those who kindlly report this technique and plan to use it in PN, will you please update us on your personal results? "Procdures" are a major cash cow for pain centers, and the "latest, greatest" unproven ones are targeted at those of us for whom there are no clear treatments. Thanks!

Here is one:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread175982.html

The Rebuilder has had spotty responses here. If you search
"Rebuilder" in our search engine you can see them. Some of the comments were brief...and those people did not stick around.(over the last 6 yrs). Rebuilder was also discussed at another location where we all used to gather, but that site crashed and the posts are lost.

Basically I avoid these types of things, myself.
You can do epsom salt baths without the Rebuilder and they are quite effective in reducing symptoms.

You can do Lidoderm patches, placed well, and get relief as well.

I am hopeful that new drugs affecting the Nav1.7 channel may be useful for PNers. Something with less side effects than what we have now:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/sh...ghlight=Nav1.7

I too am hopeful that Nav1.7 treatments come very soon. I am not thrilled about potentially losing smell but I will take that trade-off over what I have now. It also appears Nav1.8 and Nav1.9 are also potential treatments to watch out for.

Here is a great article to bring folks up to speed on the latest research. I hope to be put on each of these company's email lists the moment a treatment is available.

It seems Dr. Stephen Waxman is one of the key players to watch.