Is MS Caused By Missing Pancreatic Enzymes?
 

I believe that MS is caused by missing enzymes in the pancreas called protease and DNase1. Protease and DNase1 break down dietary proteins and DNA. You can literally trace every symptom and every valid scientific finding in MS back to these missing enzymes.

I was diagnosed with lupus, CFS and fibromyalgia over 20 years ago. It was when I happened on a study done in Germany that stated lupus patients lack the enzyme DNase1 that eventually led me to understand that every symptom and valid scientific finding in not only lupus, but in fibromyalgia, CFS, Sjogrens, RA, hypothyroidism, and MS could be traced back to these missing enzymes. In fact, I believe that the evidence will show that these are all just different manifestations of one disease-Pancreatic Enzyme Deficiency Disease (PEDD).

I hope to be able to show how every symptom and valid scientific finding in MS can be traced "directly" back to these enzymes. Also, if these diseases originate with PEDD, then their symptoms and findings should be the same. For instance, if PEDD leads to autonomic nervous system dysfunction, spinal cord degeneration, white matter lesions, elevated homocysteine, dysregulated tumor necrosis factor,low vitamin B12, low iron, etc. then all of these diseases should share these same symptoms and findings.

Hello Annesse and welcome to Neuro-talk.

While there are many theories with respect to the cause of MS and other auto-immune diseases, I had not heard of the protease and DNase1 connection; although similar claims were and are made with respect to lipase, the enzyme that helps to metabolize fats, cholesterol and essential fatty acids.
While these theories may have some validity, as with other diseases involving immune system dysfunction, like cancer and allergies, it seems that metabolic errors of this sort may be a contributing factor or condition, rather than a singular cause. Despite the extensive search for a single common cause, one has yet to be established; although I sincerely wish you all the best in your endeavor to do so.

Typically when we look at any result there is a process and protocol as it were to be followed; at least with respect to scientific research. The theory behind that protocol has stood the test of time and is as follows.

'When a cause and condition come together there is a predictable result. Therefore both the causes and conditions must be discovered if one is to gain a full understanding of the result.'
In this case the result is auto-immune disease, including MS.

The difference between cause, condition and result can most easily be appreciated if the three are examined rather simplistically.
For example, in the case of a bean sprout, we can see that the cause of the sprout is the bean seed; for if that cause did not exist, there could be no sprout. Yet the bean seed does not become a sprout until it meets with certain conditions. So it can also be appreciated that the conditions alone will not produce a bean sprout if the cause is not also present in the form of a bean seed.
It is only when both the cause (the bean seed) and the conditions (moisture, warmth, fertile soil and light) come together that the resultant effect (a bean sprout) is produced.

Getting back to auto-immune disease, despite extensive research to find a common cause, one has yet to be established, but many theories have gained popular acceptance; at least as far as propensity goes. This propensity theory simply means that there may be a common causation for how certain diseases manifest in individuals. In the case of auto-immune disease, the propensity is an alteration of the immune system function that is often accompanied by inflammation.
The proposed 'common propensity cause theory' seems to be leaning primarily toward genetics.

If it turns out that genetics is the cause of auto-immune disease, we are still left to figure out what the conditions are that might 'turn on' the gene cause; or to promote the seed to become a sprout, if we use the example given.
Research to date indicates that these conditions seem to be many and include stress, climate, vaccination, immune challenges, infections, nutritional deficiencies and metabolic errors.
What you are proposing, specifically that of a metabolic error as a cause of auto-immune disease, may actually fall into the latter category of conditions; things that may meet with the cause to produce the effect of auto-immune disease.

It seems that just like the process of a bean seed turning into a sprout, in the case of auto-immune disease, it is likely that more than one condition might also be needed to produce the resultant effect. Thus in keeping with your mention of a protease and DNase1 connection, it is also likely that more of the other conditions mentioned above, or even some, as of yet unknown conditions, must also be present along with such a deficiency to produce the resultant disease.

By supporting, cooperating and sharing ideas with each other, as well as with researchers and those who treat the symptoms of disease, just as you have, eventually it will be figured out. We must also remain open to the different theories of others as they present, so that all things are taken into consideration and carefully analyzed.
Then we will be in a better position to do so again when it comes time to figure out how best to interfere with either the cause or the conditions in order to prevent the resultant effect of disease.

As it is now however, just trying to figure out what the causes and conditions are and how they combine to produce the result of MS (and other disease as well), is the sort of thing that drives those involved in research nuts.
On a more personal level, this has been my struggle too.


With love, Erika

Erika! you blew me away! thanks.

I am always happy to hear theories, explanations, and ideas on how and what causes this stupid disease. The thing is after years and years of being told "its this!" or "nope, we found out its that!" you tend to be gun shy of the information.

I just hope they find out how to fix it, and QUICK!

Yes Erika, thank you for your reply. Your concerns were very well stated. I think I will be able to account for all of the things you mentioned. I am hoping to show that the disease process is a pathway that originates with PEDD. There are numerous ways this pathway can be interrupted, many of which you mentioned.

I liked your analogy of the bean sprout. This is much like the PEDD Pathway. I do think the cause and effect with PEDD is well defined. Much like an ulcer resulting from H pylori or gout resulting from high levels of uric acid.

I am going to list symptoms and findings in MS, and then show how they would be a direct result of missing pancreatic enzymes. I want to include every symptom and finding, so if I miss any please let me know. We will even include overlapping diseases.

White matter lesions
Optic neuritis and other vision complications
Ataxia, vertigo and other coordination and balance problems
Dysregulated iron
Low B12
Low vitamin D
Bowel and bladder problems
Restless leg syndrome
Muscle atrophy
Lack of glutathione
Low human growth hormone
Low tryptophan
Lack of essential amino acids, such as phenylalanine, leucine, valine, etc.
Depression
Dementia
Cognitive dysfunction
Fatigue
Sleeping difficulties
L'Hermitte's
Paraesthesia
Trigeminal neuralgia
Hormone imbalances, such as low testosterone
Increased risk of developing hypothyroidism
Increased risk of diabetes
Increased risk of Sjogrens
Heat Intolerance
Increase risk of developing certain types of cancer, such as lymphoma
Migraines
Vascular complications
Elevated tumor necrosis factor
Swallowing problems
Epileptic seizures
Autonomic nervous system dysfunction
Spinal cord degeneration
Mitochrondrial dysfunction
Lack of noradrenaline
Reason why gout and MS are almost mutually exclusive
Chronic itching

Please feel free to add to this list.

Tongue in cheek of course...

skepticism
being misunderstood
being misdiagnosed

I look forward to reading on what you base your assertions though.:)

With love, Erika

Erika, you took the words right out of my brain:), but ever so eloquently..

Are these missing enzymes a cause or result of the disease? Still, it seems logical that, somehow replacing these enzymes would/should only help us.

How do you propose that we do this Annesse?

Welcome and be well.:hug:

Hi SallyC, first I have to provide convincing evidence that MS patients lack these enzymes. I believe that MS is a direct result of these missing enzymes. The disease is actually PEDD. The symptoms are what someone with MS, lupus, CFS etc. would experience. I think once you see all of the evidence, you will agree that the only safe and effective way to resolve this is through diet.

What an interesting and stimulating conversation!

I would like to share at the outset that my skepticism arises from a little personal experience; yet I am genuinely interested in learning about the theory and basis of it in this situation.

Due to having regional enteritis and having undergone surgery to remove and bypass sections of intestine, I ended up with peritonitis, hepatitis and secondary pancreatitis. The affect on pancreatic function was quite severe and so for around 6 months I was required to take pancreatin and additional digestive enzymes as well.

Now admittedly, I do not know if 'DNase1' was in the mix, or if there is a suggested protocol for taking the replacement enzymes in this case; but I do know that protease was in the mix that I was given; both through intubation and then orally.

Did it have an affect on my MS, hypothyroidism or even the regional enteritis? No.

These symptoms of auto-immune disease were all very much active before surgery, during recovery and remained so even once the peritonitis infection and organ inflammations were brought under control, and I continued with the enzyme replacement.

Again, I think it is important to remain open to, as well as to analyze with careful scrutiny all ideas; but I do have a resistance to 'single answer theories'. The resistance is based on a personal belief that although symptoms may be similar when comparing both individuals and diseases, that we are all individuals with individual genetics, conditions and circumstances etc; and that the similarities of symptoms are more due to the fact that we have in common a human body that reacts in relatively predictable ways; such as inflammation.

Yet, I am listening...

With love, Erika

AMEN, you little rascal..:cool:

QUOTE:
"I hope to be able to show how every symptom and valid scientific finding in MS can be traced "directly" back to these enzymes.

I am going to list symptoms and findings in MS, and then show how they would be a direct result of missing pancreatic enzymes. I want to include every symptom and finding, so if I miss any please let me know. We will even include overlapping diseases."

I'm also curious to learn about the reason or motivation for this undertaking; of 'hoping to show...'
Is the interest a personal, professional, academic one or...?

Also who is the "we" that is being referred to in the last statement? Is there a research body that is having a look at this, and if so, might there an internet link to them?

With love, Erika

I agree Erika~It is an interesting and stimulating conversation for me as well.

It does not surprise me that your symptoms did not improve with supplementation. Although in the end, the evidence may prove to you that you are indeed lacking these enzymes, I don't believe you will effectively be able to heal your GI tract (including your pancreas) through supplements. In fact, I think much of the evidence will show that taking supplements of nutrients that you have lost the ability to metabolize could be very detrimental.

What kind or specific diet are you talking about? Thanks.

Found this.......
http://www.inspire.com/BehcetsGirl/j...iency-disease/

Just to be clear, I am not a formal researcher (meaning no one pays me), not in the medical profession, or a scientist. I am just someone who was diagnosed with lupus and believe I have found the reason why I got sick. I think the information applies to MS and other diseases and conditions as well, and would like to share what I have discovered here. I don't want the members here to be involved in any type of research. When I say "we", I am referring to my daughter who has helped me put the pieces together. Sorry for any confusion.

Good detective work Sally~ It is a diet based on healing the GI tract and restoring these missing enzymes. I would first like to provide evidence of what I believe is taking place in the disease process though. Then we can discuss the diet.

Interesting link; and the comments are as well.

With respect to diet, the low fat-fresh foods (raw) diet recommended in the link takes us back to Swank's diet recommendations; or a derivative there of, and that in turn would seem to take us even further back to interfering with a condition rather than with a cause. Either way, many have experienced profound benefits from the Swank type diet, while others not so much.

This sort of variance in response is what makes the auto-immune inflammatory diseases such a head scratcher for everyone concerned. While interfering with or manipulating conditions has its merits for symptom control, it does seem that the 'cure' would more likely be found in the cause (the seed itself).
Similarly, for a more reliable and universal response to potential treatment, it seems to be more reasonable to interfere with the cause; and that seems to indicate something along the lines of gene therapy holding the 'secret cure'.

Unfortunately, gene therapy is in its infancy and only recently has it been found that not only the genes themselves carry the blue print for encoded tendencies, but so does the protein coat that envelopes each and every strand of DNA. When the human genome project (DNA mapping) was being done, that vital bit of protein material was centrifuged out of the test samples and discarded. This would be like evaluating an architect's blue print but eliminating the contractor/builder who would ultimately interpret it and utilizing their own individualized 'tastes', perform the construction.
Apparently, at least according to current research in genetics, it is that protein coat that is so individual; and thus contains at least some of the information that governs how each individual person expresses each gene. The ever changing protein components within the body also seem to allow for an equal variance of expression during cell division within the same individual over time and changing conditions.

For example a person might have a gene that when activated promotes excess inflammation, but it is apparently the protein coat that determines what tissue that inflammation may primarily affect. Perhaps at one point in their life the inflammation settles in the neurological system, and perhaps later, changing conditions (diet would be an example), exert an influence on the protein coat that envelopes their DNA, and the inflammation then has a tendency to settle in their digestive tract.

This may very well be the reason that although, and thus far, no consistent genetic link has been found between family members who share a specific auto-immune disease in common. Due to having been exposed to similar conditions, they may in fact share in common the information that ultimately is expressed through the protein coat of DNA.
This gene + common denominator theory is supported by the observation that at least for MS, there seems to be a connection between race (genetic predisposition)+ climate (condition).

Confused? As I said earlier, this has been my struggle too. Just trying to get a handle on the research that has been done thus far in this field is enough to test the patience of a tortoise. Advancing the research has me taking a deep and humble bow to those who have dedicated themselves to the task.

In the end, it may very well turn out that after all the research and hypotheses are critically evaluated, and potential treatment is sent into motion that it is found to be at least partially off base.
So it has been in the case of cancer research, where after exploring genetics as a cause, some researchers have begun to give equal weight to the virus theory (cause), and many have also begun to couple that with 'contributing factors' (conditions) theory as well.

If nothing else, perhaps the auto-immune diseases like MS have served to foster greater compassion, understanding and patience within those who are involved with it.
I believe that it is so.

With love, Erika

Hey Erika~I do not recommend a raw food diet. Once we get further along, I think you will understand why. I believe that,yes, we have found the "seed" as you say. So what do you say we get started?


I know that many people would find it difficult to believe at first that the numerous symptoms and findings in MS could all be traced directly back to one main cause. And yet, the symptoms and findings I posted previously are all symptoms and findings in lupus, as well as MS, and researchers have found that when this enzyme (DNase1) is removed in mice, for instance, many of the symptoms of lupus result. All of the many and varied symptoms I listed previously that encompass lupus and are the same as in MS, become manifest when these enzymes are missing. Here are a few studies on lupus and DNase1.

Mutation of DNASE1 in People with Systemic Lupus Erythematosus
Yasutomo, K., T. Horiuchi, S. Kagami, H. Tsukamoto, C. Hashimura, M. Urushihara,
Y. Kuroda. 2001. Nat. Genet. 28(4):313-4.
*edit*


Rescue NET for Lupus Patients
ScienceDaily, May 3, 2010
*edit*

Enzyme Shortage May Lead to Lupus - DNase I
Seppa, N. 2000. ScienceNews.
*edit*
Journal Reference:
Walport, M.J. 2000. Lupus, DNase and defective disposal of cellular debris. Nature Genetics
25:135-136.

Hi
just a reminder that we do not allow any copy/pasting from sites that have copyright statements as that can get us into trouble with them. Only work that is in public domain can be copy/pasted.

Once you have made sufficient posts to be able to link, you can then give the title & citation and link for others to read, sometimes the abstract *if* the publication permits that. You need to check first.

Annesse,

Thank you for your comments.

At the outset, I should perhaps reveal that I am a certified nutritionist with an interest in evidence based research and protocol; thus I am very interested not only in what you intend to present, but also in what those assertions are based upon.:)

With love, Erika

Hello Annesse,

QUOTE: "I was diagnosed with lupus, CFS and fibromyalgia over 20 years ago."

Please forgive me for my eagerness to receive, read and discuss the information that you have. I immediately meant to, and then promptly forgot to say how very sorry I am that not just one, but apparently three auto-immune inflammatory conditions have been a part of your life for the last 20 years.
It certainly does prompt us to do some research ourselves, doesn't it?

Again, I look forward to reading and discussing the information that you have; and perhaps your personal experiences with respect to following the recommended protocol as well.

With love, Erika

My 'theory' is completely different. When you have so many other illnesses/diseases at one time it's just something that you just have. I have a history of cancer, heart disease, high B/P, high triglycerides, psoriasis, MS and I'm sure others that I can't think of right now since it is the end of the day there are some thing you can't explain. The body just goes kaput.

I just read what I said and hope that you didn't take it the wrong way. It kind of came across like I was ridiculing you. I am not in any way. There are some things that science just can't explain in my opinion

Science can splain everything.....even our creation..:rolleyes::D

Thank you Chemar~Ericka, that is really kind of you. I view CFS, fibromyalgia and lupus as one disease now though. Even when I was first diagnosed and they would "add" a new disease name with each new symptom, I knew deep down that it was just a "progression" of whatever was wrong with me.

Doydie~I think we will be able to show how your conditions are connected.
SallyC~I am with you on that one.

Following is some information from the link SallyC posted in post no. 12. In the post,I was answering the original posters question on the symptoms of PEDD. I am going to take out the links provided and the body of the information from the studies (per rules). If you click on the link that SallyC provided, you can see the information in total,plus the link to the lupus study. This information makes the connection to protease and some of the symptoms of MS (and lupus etc.) Specifically, the dysregulated iron and resulting restless legs syndrome found in MS. Also, I provided a study that shows certain amino acids are found lacking in fibromyalgia. One in particular is phenylalanine, which is where dopamine is derived from. In my next post, I will provide evidence that MS patients also lack phenylalanine.

From the link that SallyC provided in post 12:
"You can literally trace every symptom of every autoimmune disease directly back to missing enzymes in the pancreas. Specifically protease and DNase1. The information that the previous posters provided show that without protease, your body will not be able to break down immune complexes. These immune complexes consist of unbroken down proteins and DNA also due to a lack of protease, since you would not be able to digest dietary proteins. Your immune system targets these protein fragments and DNA and forms "NETS" that become lodged in your organs and tissues. The lack of the pancreatic enzyme DNase1 has been determined to be a "causative" factor of lupus. Here is a picture of these "NETS" in a lupus patients bloodstream. In the last paragraph, the researchers state lupus patients lack the enzyme DNase1. (See Sally's post for link)

So, that would be one symptom of PEDD, immune complexes that become lodged in organs and tissues, causing organ failure and damage. Other symptoms of PEDD would be the same a lupus patient would suffer, since the lack of DNase1 has been determined to be a causitive factor of lupus. Here are some symptoms and scientific findings of lupus: Autonomic nervous system dysfunction, hypothyroidism, restless legs syndrome, arthritis, osteoporosis, spinal cord degeneration, migraines, hypermobility, low adrenal function, chemical sensitivity, low cortisol, anemia, lack of vitamin B12, iron, and magnesium, joint and muscle pain, fatigue, insomnia, depression, neuropathy, swollen glands, low grade fever, high C-reactive protein, rashes, itchiness, vision complications, dry eyes and mouth, increased risk of heart attack and stroke, easy bruising, brain fog, porphyria, mitochrondrial dysfunction, POTS, heat intolerance, and the list goes on. You can trace each of these symptoms directly back to these missing enzymes.

For instance, lupus patients have an increased risk of developing restless legs syndrome. So do fibromyalgia, diabetes, MS, Sjogrens patietns etc. Studies have linked restless legs syndrome to low iron and dopamine. Here is one such study.

Dopamine and Iron in The Pathophysiology of Restless Legs
Syndrome (Rls)
Allen, R. 2004. Sleep Med. 5(4):385-91.



Here is how PEDD would lead to RLS (and anemia) Protease regulate iron absorption in the body. Here is a study that shows this.
Hörl, W.H. 2008. Nephrol. Dial. Transplant. 23(10):3063-3064.

New Insights Into Intestinal Iron Absorption…Du et al. described the novel and exciting finding that the transmembrane serine
protease 6 (TMPRSS6) senses iron deficiency [1].


PEDD would also lead to a lack of dopamine. Protease break down dietary proteins and release essential amino acids. One of the amino acids found lacking in MS, lupus, Fibromyalgia, CFS etc is phenylalanine. Phenylalanine breaks down into tyrosine and tyrosine breaks down into dopamine. The lack of dopamine and iron would then lead to RLS. Here is a study that shows fibromyalgia patients lack phenylalanine.

Altered Amino Acid Homeostasis in Subjects Affected by
Fibromyalgia
Bazzichi, L., L. Palego, G. Giannaccini, A. Rossi, F. De Feo, C. Giacomelli, L. Betti, L. Giusti,
G. Mascia, S. Bombardieri, A. Lucacchini. 2009. Clin Bioche, 42(10-11):1064-70.

wow...
I am sure I don't understand much of what you are saying yet, however....I too have always thought all my symptoms were somehow related to MS.
I have:
low RBC (3.5 million cells/mcL)
low hemogolbin (11.2 g/dl)
low hematocrit (34%)
low ferritin (down to 10 now)
low vit B12 (I have to do weekly injections)
low Vitamin D (up to 30 now...with daily 3200iu)
Complex partial seizures
Severe Chronic Migraines
Irriatable bowel syndrome
Burning mouth syndrome
and the regular MS symptoms:
fatigue
leg pain, tingling, spasms, spasticity
arm pain with deep burning and aching
bladder retention (I must self-cath)
visual issues
Balance/Coordination problems
depression

I am wanting to know HOW to change all this??

Hello Annesse,

Thank you for the time and effort that you have no doubt put into researching this; and also for sharing it with us.

So far I follow the theory and if what has been suggested turns out to have consistent results with respect to symptom control, that would certainly be quite wonderful; for at that point there is at least one more thing that may be tried and prove to be beneficial with respect to symptom control.

Classifying PEDD as a cause (the seed) and the protocol as a cure, may be a little shaky though (at least from a scientifically definitive standpoint); because it seems that one would need to maintain the protocol (if it did in fact prove to be beneficial), in order to keep symptoms from returning.
That qualifies the protocol as a symptom controlling treatment (much like a medication protocol would), rather than a cure; further supporting the suggestion that the protocol targets a condition (PED), rather than a cause.
In this case a cause would be more akin to the 'factor' that leads to the development or presence of PED.

No matter...it is a bit of a matter of semantics at this point. My interest in defining PED, PEDD correctly with respect to cause, condition or effect has more to do with my own personal interest in analyzing how each of those should be approached and how they would play out with respect to interferences placed upon them: ie. potential treatment methods and protocols.

Before going down that road with respect to PEDD however, it would be helpful to review current differential assessments of the impact of PED within the general population.
Do you know if there have been any studies specifically on PED in the general population?
What I have been looking for in the literature and links, but have yet to find is any study that has examined the disease rate (percentage) of individuals who have PED in the general population.

In other words, has some research evidence revealed through scientific standard testing (greater than 500 general population participants, studied over time), that a certain percentage of, or all individuals who have PED, either have symptoms of, or who go on to develop auto-immune inflammatory type disease such as MS, Lupus etc, or any other specific or predictable disease process as a result?

Such a study would show that either there is a greater, lesser or equal incidence of disease affecting those with PED when compared to disease incidence of the general population.

If you know of something along this line of research, please provide a 'Research paper or Journal title reference' that can be searched on Google or ordered from the publisher.

This is so interesting!

Thanks.

With love, Erika

Sometimes Erika, As in Meds like LDN, although there are some pro scientific studies, "The Proof is In The Pudding":D

Isn't that the truth.:cool:

With love, Erika

Hi daisy.girl~ I think all of the conditions you listed are connected. We will be able to show how they can all be traced directly back to these missing enzymes.

If you have any questions as we proceed, please don't hesitate to ask. All I am really doing is showing how the symptoms and associated conditions of MS can be traced directly back to these enzymes. I started by addressing the dysregulated iron and RLS found in MS. Protease regulate iron absorption and the lack of iron and dopamine would lead to RLS. Dopamine is derived from phenylalanine. Phenylalanine is an essential amino acid that is derived from high protein foods. That is what protease do, they break down high protein foods and release essential amino acids. I posted a study that shows phenylalanine is lacking in fibromyalgia patients. More than 33% of fibromyalgia patients also have RLS.

MS patients also lack phenylalanine and numerous other amino acids found in high protein foods. The following study found that MS patients lack phenylalanine, tryptophan, leucine, isoleucine, valine, and tyrosine.

Plasma and Cerebrospinal Fluid Tryptophan in Multiple Sclerosis
and Degenerative Diseases
Monaco, F., S. Fumero, A. Mondino, R. Mutani. 1979. J. Neurol. Neurosurg. Psychiatry
42:640-641.

The lack of phenylalanine would not only lead to RLS (due to a lack of dopamine) it would also explain many of the other symptoms found in MS. Here is a list of the known symptoms of dopamine deficiency.

• Stiff, rigid, achy muscles
• Cognitive impairment
• Impaired motor skills
• Tremors
• Inability to focus attention
• Poor balance and coordination
• Strange walking pattern (gait), frequently with small steps

Hey Erika~As far as I know, I was the first person to use the term "PEDD" so there wouldn't have been any studies done.

Following is a quote from an article in US News & World Report
(University of Illinois at Chicago, 2011).

*edit due to copyright* The study was published
online February 4, 2011 in Brain.

This is additional evidence of the lack of phenylalanine, tyrosine and dopamine in MS. Adrenaline and noradrenaline are derived from dopamine.

So, just to recap;Protease (pancreatic enzymes) break down high protein foods and release essential amino acids. Phenylalanine and tyrosine are two essential amino acids derived from "high protein foods" that are found lacking in MS. Phenylalanine breaks down into tyrosine, tyrosine breaks down into dopamine and dopamine breaks down into adrenaline and noradrenaline.

We are not done with phenylalanine just yet. In the next post, I'll show how a lack of phenylalanine would explain two other conditions found in MS.

Another reminder about please not directly copy/pasting from *any* site or publication that has a copyright notice.

Thanks Annesse,

QUOTE: "Phenylalanine breaks down into tyrosine, tyrosine breaks down into dopamine and dopamine breaks down into adrenaline and noradrenaline."

I'd like to correct a slight error in terminology so as to avoid possible confusion and more importantly, the potential for health effects should anyone choose to supplement any of these amino acids (some are available in isolated form in health food stores).

Phenylalanine is a 'precursor' to tyrosine which in turn is a precursor to dopamine, as well as a component of other neurotransmitters.

NOTE: Supplementing amino acids in isolation is a form of nutritional pharmacology and as with other pharmacological approaches, it is advisable to research 'uses, side effects, contra-indications, interactions with other medications and the potential health risks' before doing so.
There is ample information on the internet with respect to each amino acid along with these factors as well as providing descriptions with respect to their effects on body functions.

With love, Erika

why all the bits and pieces??

just say it all in one post please!

I have most of the symptoms you originally list. I believe I have a pancreatic deficiency, which I help out by taking enzymes. You say taking them does not help. It does help me, but it does not cure. I have had very sharp pains in the pancreas area when I eat too much protein or fat. I am on the Swank diet, which helps, and reduces both the sharp pain in the pancrease occuring (hardly occurs now) and also the other symptoms.

I had very low hematocrit when young; but now I have another disease, Porphyria, and another one besides that, Polycythemia Vera. Since getting the last one 7 years ago, I have a high hematocrit and have to have phlebotomies, and have gone to Mayo to reduce blood platelets by radiation.

Now the Porphyria is an interesting topic in relationship to your thoughts, Annesse. Porphyria is specifically caused by a low enzyme among the 8 in the hemaglobin synthesis pathway. It is thus a metabolic disease in which a low enzyme is THE known cause. It is genetic. There are several forms, each based on a low enzyme from among the 8. But the symptoms are mostly the same for all of the types except for the addition of skin problems in two types, and the existence of a separate type which is skin-only, and is the most common in America (Porphyria Cutanea Tarda).

I have very severe "RLS" but i do not call it that. It is better called Myoclonus, and the leg and back jerks are called Myoclonic seizures, although they do not affect the brain.
I have these under 95% control by taking a large dose of magnesium, which was recommended by a neuro over 20 years ago when I could not take the MS drugs which are used for such problems as spasticity and jerkiness. So I am of course interested in your supposition that this "RLS" is a part of the syndrome.

I could go on for hours, but am just saying that I find the suppositions interesting and worth investigating, but I am saying with daisy.girl, let's have it all in one post, and let's hear how the diet helps. And also need explicit statement of how one tests for this syndrome, and who does it?

I would be quite amazed if my porphyria is related to this syndrome. There is no way I could even guess about that without more information. But I do say that I have, or have had, almost all the symptoms you list, but with changes over the years from low hematocrit to high being the most obvious one.

*edit*

What the researchers found was that MS patients have reduced levels of noradrenaline. Noradrenaline is derived from dopamine.

Erika~The information you posted on supplementation is one reason why it is important to understand the entire disease process. Just because you lack something doesn't mean it is a good idea to take additional in supplement form. What if you cannot properly metabolize the nutrient and that is the reason you lack it? For instance, the lack of DNase1 in lupus led to unbroken down protein particles and DNA in a lupus patients bloodstream. The immune system targets these protein particles and DNA because they are foreign. Much like a celiac patient is unable to digest the protein gluten and the immune system is reacting to the unbroken down gluten fragments. Would it be a good idea for a celiac patient to take isolated portions of gluten into their bodies? Here is something I have written previously on this topic.

"A word of caution: The lack of amino acids found in CFS and fibromyalgia
are a result of the inability to digest dietary proteins. If you are unable
to digest proteins, you would also be unable to properly metabolize
the amino acids of which proteins are comprised. The previous study
“Cobalamin Malabsorption Due to Nondegration of R Proteins in
the Human Intestine” showed that pancreatic enzymes are necessary to
degrade R proteins (amino acids). The inability to digest proteins and
amino acids is what led to the unbroken down bits of protein and DNA
in the bloodstreams of lupus patients. The immune system targets these
proteins and forms immune complexes, which then become lodged in
healthy organs and tissues. Taking additional amino acids in supplement
form would lead to an increased risk of disease. This is evident in the
findings from the study entitled “Intermediary Metabolism of Phenylalanine
and Tyrosine in Diffuse Collagen Diseases” (Nishimura, 1959). When
lupus patients were given supplements of tyrosine and phenylalanine, the
supplements “unfailingly aggravated both clinical signs and laboratory data
of collagen disease.”

Hey daisy.girl~I am trying to explain the entire disease process by taking each symptom and tracing it back to these missing enzymes as evidence that this is the source of MS. So that really is it in a nutshell; missing pancreatic enzymes that break down dietary proteins and DNA are lacking in MS and in other autoimmune diseases and this is what leads to all of the symptoms and scientific findings in these diseases. How do you fix it? By restoring these enzymes through diet, healing your GI tract, destroying pathogenic bacteria, replenishing beneficial bacteria, intrinsic factor, HCI, and avoiding any and all things that deplete or harm you entire GI tract.

Hi Mariel~We can trace the buildup of porphyrin directly back to PEDD. Again, here is something I have written previously on this.

"The body makes heme mostly in the bone marrow and liver. The process
of making heme is called the heme biosynthetic pathway. Each step of
the process is controlled by one of eight enzymes. If any one of the eight
enzymes is deficient, the pathway is disrupted. As a result, porphyrin or
its chemical precursors, may build up in body tissues and cause illness
(National Institutes of Health, 2008).
Porphyrin can accumulate in the skin and cause photosensitivity. Exposure
to the sunlight may cause symptoms such as redness, rash, itching, burning,
blistering, and swelling. Once triggered, an episode can escalate and cause
even more toxic porphyrin to build up in the tissues, leading to even more
serious illness.
The first component in the heme pathway is succinyl-CoA. Vitamin
B12 serves as a cofactor for methylmalonyl-CoA mutase which converts
methylmalonyl-CoA to succinyl-CoA. Therefore, a lack of vitamin B12
would lead to a failure in the entire heme pathway."

I wanted to go through the missing neurotransmitters first and then show why MS patients are unable to metabolize vitamin B12.

I take B12 injections, and my blood serum level goes up....but I don't ever feel better. Why is that?

I'm not up on how the succinyl-CoA and the methylmalonyl-CoA affects the heme pathway, having never read anything like this in 16 years on line after Porph dx. But I await more information, and if you are right, the porph community awaits! Some porphs have tried B12 but it does not seem to be a help in most cases, that is, taking the big dose shots. Of course most of us with porph do take multi-vitamins. My favorite B Complex is the sublingual from Source Naturals.
many of us with Porph do have that problem you mention of digesting protein and fat, but most of us are on a balanced protein-carb diet because it is essential for porphs to have enough carbs. Without enough carbs, starvation sets in and a porph attack results.
So dieting is hard for porphs. The primary symptom of porphyria is acute abdominal pain, which I had when young, but do not have so much now that I know how to avoid triggers and how to eat. Avoiding triggers is the MAIN thing in porph, rather than adding supplements, although most take supplements in moderation. Yes, too many supplements, big trouble.

Just remember, in re porph, however, that each of us with porph has one enzyme low in the heme pathway, but it is not the pancreatic enzyme system. That does not say that we could not have a low pancrease enzyme as well.

Of course we all here on this forum would like to know how this relates to MS.



Thank you.

Mariel

I will most likely sound like a broken record by the time we are done, if I don't already; taking nutrients into your body that you are unable to metabolize is a bad idea. Protease are "essential" for the proper metabolism of vitamin B12.
That is most likely why taking supplements of B12 are not effective. They can however, dramatically increase your risk of cancer according to studies. Cancer cells put out receptors to B12.

As I stated about the heme biosynthetic pathway:

"The first component in the heme pathway is succinyl-CoA. Vitamin
B12 serves as a cofactor for methylmalonyl-CoA mutase which converts
methylmalonyl-CoA to succinyl-CoA. Therefore, a lack of vitamin B12
would lead to a failure in the entire heme pathway."


How does this apply to MS and other autoimmune diseases? MS patients are unable to metabolize vitamin B12. Numerous studies confirm this. Here are the titles to a few. These studies particularly refer to the inability of MS patients to "metabolize" vitamin B12.

Multiple Sclerosis Associated with Vitamin B12 Deficiency
Reynolds, E.H., J.C. Linnell, J.E. Faludy. 1991. Arch Neurol. 48(8):808-11.

Vitamin B12 Metabolism in Multiple Sclerosis
Reynolds, E.H., T Bottiglieri, M. Laundy, R.F. Crellin, S.G. Kirker. 1992. Arch Neurol.

Vitamin B12 and its Relationship to Age of Onset of Multiple
Sclerosis
Sandyk, R., G.I. Awerbuch. 1993. Int J Neurosci. 71(1-4):93-9.

So, are you saying that taking my weekly B12 injections is worse for me then having a dangerously low level of B12??

Hi Daisy~Everything I say is just my opinion of course, but a large study done in Norway that tried to lower the risk of heart disease (more on that later) through the use of B12 and folic acid found that the supplements not only did not lower the risk of heart disease, but they increased the risk of developing cancer by 38%. Here is some information on this study.

http://coloncancer.about.com/b/2009/...ancer-risk.htm

There were very small amounts of supplements given in this study. About the amount you would get in a bowl of cereal and a multivitamin.

In addition, if you are unable to properly metabolize vitamin B12, no amount of supplemental B12 will correct this. If it doesn't work, then why take the risk associated with supplementation? Taking a pill that increases your risk of cancer by 38% is a very large risk in my opinion.

One of the main findings in autoimmune disease is spinal cord degeneration. According to the National Institutes of Health, subacute combined degeneration of the spinal cord is "caused" by a vitamin B12 deficiency. As the following study shows, spinal cord degeneration can occur even with high levels of B12 in the serum.

Subacute Combined Degeneration with High Serum Vitamin B12
Level and Abnormal Vitamin B12 Binding Protein. New Cause of an
Old Syndrome
Reynolds E.H., T. Bottiglieri, M. Laundy, J. Stern, J. Payan, J. Linnell, J. Faludy 1993.
Arch Neurol. Jul;50(7):739-42.

I am not saying you shouldn't try and correct this, I am just saying taking supplements, in my opinion, is not the way to do it.

@Annesse: Is there any printed reports on the athletic respects or correlation to why more bodybuilders aren't struck with MS? Seems to me that bodybuilders, workout junkies & the like...who take excess amino acids & boost their proteins both before & after workouts do not complain of any of the symptoms which we find in Auto Immune response diseases.

My reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serine_protease
(Chemar-I hope this is ok? My 1st reference)


Maybe I'm missing something here?

Hey New2net98~Good question.

If someone has sufficient enzymes to break down dietary proteins, then although I don't think it is a good idea to do, they should be able to break down the amino acids of which dietary proteins are comprised.

This would be very comparable I think to someone with sufficient protease being able to digest gluten. They could most likely ingest the peptides, of which gluten is comprised, without a toxic reaction. Someone that has lost the ability to digest gluten (due to a lack of protease) would most likely have a toxic reaction to the peptides.

The difference is you are talking about athletes and bodybuilders etc. verses autoimmune sufferers. I am not saying ingesting amino acids for a healthy individual will give you autoimmune disease, just that if you have lost these enzymes and are having symptoms of autoimmune disease, ingesting isolated components of these proteins will most likely,as the lupus study showed, increase your disease risk.

Is every autoimmune disease sufferer missing these pancreatic enzymes? If not, then that blows the whole therory of it being the cause of all Autoimmune diseases. May be a trigger for some but not the cause.

I tell ya, S T R E S S is the main trigger and the Herpes six viruses (chicken pox..etc..) are the cause of MS. Wait and see!!:cool::D

Is MS even an Autoimmune disease??:confused: