New Here, Hello!
 

Hi,

This is my 1st post. I have been lurking around for the past few weeks and finally thought I'd introduce myself.

My name is Patty and I was in a horseback riding accident on 8/9/2012. I have ridden horses for the past 38 years and have been teaching for the past 3 years and this is my first accident where I hit my head. I had just mounted my horse and within 30 seconds he spooked, started backing up quickly, he tripped and we both went down. I was wearing a helmet. I only remember him starting to back up, I do not remember falling. I remember bits and pieces in the the emergency room.

They did a CT and MRI and I had a subarachnoid hemorrhage. I was in the hospital for 4 days and then released.

My symptoms are:

brain fog
vertigo
balance problems
concentration problems
speech problems (finding words etc)
anger
anxiety
slight vision changes (colors changing,text size changing)
tingling
constant hand & feet movement - this happens all the time without my brain telling my fingers or toes to move, I hope this makes sense.

and the last two (that I remember at this time) are the most disturbing to me. I have gained about 15 lbs. I have been watching what I eat (except for today since it is my bday) and have been exercising daily, long walks and eliptical machine. I know that exercising causes my symptoms to be worse, but if I don't exercise then I get extremely anxious and I feel like I HAVE to exercise because I don't want to gain anymore weight. Oh, also, I quit smoking cigarettes the day of the accident.

The last symptom is not necessarily bad for me, but it is not normal. I used to get bad migraines before the accident. After the accident I noticed that I do not feel pain the same way, if at all. For the first few weeks I knew I had headaches by feeling the pulsating, but did not have any pain.

I also used to have bad neck and shoulder pain almost every day(which caused my headaches). That is totally gone. So other than the fogginess and dizziness that can come from walking too long, I do not feel muscle fatigue and I feel like I can just walk and walk and walk because my legs are almost numb like. I know this is not good for my symptoms. How concerned should I be about this lack of pain? Does anybody else have this problem?

Regarding the weight gain, I believe this is from quitting smoking and maybe there was some pituitary gland damage? I had hypothyroidism and on meds before the accident. My internist raised my meds just last week, I think just to appease me, but still no weight loss. Any ideas?

I have not driven a car since the accident. I have not been back to a Neurologist since the hospital, My internist doesn't think it is necessary, but I am now looking into finding one to get tested. Not sure what tests they are going to do at this stage, but I feel like I need answers.

Lastly, I know that a subarachnoid hemorrhage is pretty bad. Other than the brain bleeding, (mine stopped bleeding while still in the hospital) it seems like all the symptoms are the same as pcs. Am I missing something? Why do the drs say these are so much worse? Are my symptoms more apt to be permanent? Do I have a higher risk of another bleed? Any info would be helpful? My mother had a brain aneurysm at my exact age (46) and is now paralyzed and I guess I am a little freaked out and nervous for my future.

Sorry this is so long. I tried to put this in shorter paragraphs so it would be easier to read. I also have a problem with long paragraphs.

Thank you,

Patty

Patty,

Happy birthday.


Welcome to NeuroTalk. Sorry to hear of the extent of your injury. Weight gain is not uncommon as we tend to be less active and sometimes need meds that cause weight gain. I doubt the increase in thyroid meds would make much of a change in only one week. Give it time.

Did your bleed appear to seal on its own? That should be a good sign.

Your symptoms sound like classic concussion symptoms. No way to tell if they are just from the bleed or the concussion too. It does not make much difference because you treat the symptoms, not the cause, except to keep the bleed from bleeding again.

There is nothing a neuro can do to test for concussion damage. Your neuro's only concern should be your bleed.

A head injury can mess up hormones and such. Many of us are into nutritional supplements to help our brains purge the toxins and strengthen. B-12 is the most important.

I can give you the whole list if you are interested. Avoid caffeine, alcohol, MSG and artificial sweeteners. Good meat protein is good for the amino acids and especially the essential fatty acids needed by your brain. Pork is the best for all of the amino acids needed.

Please feel free to post your needs and questions. I appreciate how you formatted your post with plenty of double spaces. It makes it so much easier to read when paragraphs are limited to 5 lines or so.

My best to you.

new here too!
 

Glad to find others like me. Suffered concussion in May 2011 in auto wreck. I developed light sensitivity and would suffer extreme fatique from overexposure to sunlight. Also developed vertigo early on, short term memory loss and a feeling that life was moving faster than I was moving. I had trouble with conversations to the point where I wouldnt talk to save embarrasment. I had problems with my peripheral vision while driving. Vehicles that would pass me scared me. Multi decision intersections caused large problems. I learned to stay away from busier streets. A couple of months later I developed a sensitivity to ambient noise and constant tinnitus. Living with 2 small children, barking dogs and the general hum of life drove me to the point where I would lash out at the ones I loved. I have no control of my fuse. That in turn drove me to become isolated from everyone. As the months went on watching TV and reading became more difficult. I could not remember what I had just read in the paragraph before. The TV seemed to shake or shudder. I had spells of Vertigo. 10 months into this I had a vertigo spell while holding my infant daughter. I fell and protected her but not myself. I suffered a 2nd concussion. Since then I spent months at a local outpatient PT/OT for Post Concussion Syndrome. I made progress visually but still have problems with light sensititivty. I was diagnosed with BPV a type of vertigo. I continue to have bad balance problems and a general lack of coordination. This has gone on for 17 months. 3 neurologists with a 4th appt soon, and my family doctor with little clues except for this will take time. I must mention that the pain meds Morphine and Percocets probably cause a little of the foggy feeling but no way are they the cause of the all symptoms. Currently I still suffer from all the previous mentioned symptoms in some capacity. I have had a headache continually for 17 months, pain in my eyes and a constant sick feeling. Lately I have brief sharp stabbing pains in my head. Some sort of trouble with the control my adrenaline. And even trouble remembering my little girls name. I fear that there is no turning this around. Anyone out there with suggestions where to go from here? Thanks for listening!

Thank you Mark for the information. I do not know if the bleed sealed on its own. My internist thought they may have given me steroids in the hospital. That is what he thought the weight gain was from in the beginning.

I wanted to go to the Neuro to have them test for balance problems, cognitive etc. I was going to apply for disability since I cannot work at this time. I thought having tests from the neuro would help.

I would love to have the list of supplements. I am not sure that I can afford them at this time. The diet that I follow to try to lose weight most of the time is the South Beach Diet. That is focused on high protein and low carbs. Not sure if it is the best diet for the brain or if I should have more carbs in the diet.

Gazoo, I totally understand what you are feeling especially about the feeling that life is moving faster than you are. I cannot believe it has been two months since the accident, I feel like I just got out of the hospital and cannot figure out what I have been doing for the past two months.

I also have the fear there is no turning this around. I feel like this is now part of me.

Hi Patty
 

Welcome to Neuro Talk. Sorry about your fall. I love riding too. I am 60 with other issues but I understand the PCS and some of the symptoms you have.

Others will be by to guide you also. You can and will get better. Many folks on this site improve, so have hope.

If anxiety is getting to be a bit much, go back to your neurologist, and write down all your questions OK? Write down all your current symptoms.

I believe the weight gain is from the stopping of smoking. this happens to most people who quit. good for you, just keep walking if you can and the weight will come off. It is worth the added pounds to get the habit out of your life! Don't stress about it, just get well and eat as healthy as you can.

I do know that PCS and any kind of bleed in the brain, takes time to recover from. I am glad the bleeding stopped in the hospital.

Try not to think about what happened to your mother. Remember just because our parents had something bad happen, that does not automatically doom you. You don't necessarly get what your parents had. Genetics is only one small part. You were healthy and riding when this accident occured. You can be healthy again.

Welcome again to Neuro Talk. You will find alot of friends and information here. ginnie:hug:

Hi there,
I am a nurse and deal with patients with subarachoid hemorrhages all the time. Number 1....Im a little disappointed they sent you home after only 4 days, because the most difficult days after a bleed are days 5-21 when your vessels begin to spasm (vasospasm) and can cause a lot of problems with decrease blood flow to the brain. Hopefully you were on the big white pills called Nimodipine for 3 weeks after your accident.

Also, did they do a Cerebral angiogram?? This is a test where they access your femoral artery (in your groin) thread a catheter up into the vessels in your neck and then inject contrast to illuminate the cerebral arteries to check for irregularities, including aneurysms. usually after someone has a subarachnoid hemorrhage, they do this procedure to see if they need to coil the artery that the bleed originated from. If your mother had an aneurysm, theres a chance with your genetics, you also have an aneursym and thats where you bled from when you had your impact. You said that it stopped on its own, so it makes me think the original location of the bleed has not been investigated or treated. This reason alone.....you MUST see a neurologist or neurointerventional doctor to have this procedure done to see if the neck of the aneurysm needs to be coiled so it doesnt have the chance to bleed again. You are definetly a high risk to bleed again.

If you live in Southern California, I can refer you to two amazing neuro-interventionalists that i work with daily at Scripps in La Jolla.

Ginnie - Thank you for the nice welcome and information!

Night nurse - I was a little surprised too that they let me out so quick I was not happy with the trauma doctor at the hospital. I felt like he was trying to send me home even earlier until I started throwing up on the 2nd night. I think he would have sent me home on the 3rd day if that didn't happen.

I was not on any meds that I know of other than pain meds and an iv in the hospital. I was not sent home with any meds other than pain also.

They did not do a cerebral angiogram either. Honestly, they didn't do much of anything once I was in the room other than feed me the 3rd and 4th day. :p I was on liquid diet the first two days.

No, the original location has not been investigated. The 1st CT on the night of the accident stated "the examination is notable for a zone of increased attenuation of the right parietal lobe in a curvilinear orientation along the sulci and this suggest the possibility of small subarachnoid hemorrhage"

2nd CT done the next day stated "Small amount of subarachnoid hemorrhage which appears less prominent on the new examination as compared to the previous examination over the right convexity."

The MRI also showed petechial hemorrhagic contusions. All of this is confusing to me. It doesn't state anywhere in the forms they gave me about any medication they may have used to stop the bleeding.

I did call the Concussion Institute in El Segundo, but when I spoke with my father and stepmother who would be driving me, they suggested finding someone closer. I am located in the San Fernando Valley. Do you know any good neuro-interventionalists in this area? La Jolla is quite a bit further and I don't know if I can get them to drive me.

Your primary care doctor should be able to refer you to someone who can do a cerebral angiogram. This can be done as an outpatient procedure. You would need to have nothing to eat after midnight. The procedure itself only takes an hour to hour and a half. But the recovery time is 6 hours because the pucture your femoral artery and you need to lay flat for 6 hours to make sure you dont bleed. They will give you moderate sedation, so you will be a little sleepy, but not knocked out.

Hi Patty,

Please be reassured that you are not alone. The bad news is this can be a bit of a long haul with new symptoms presenting on a daily basis. The good news is you will get all your answers and reassurance here!

I am so sorry that you suffered an accident along side a piece of life that I am sure you are passionate about ( horseriding). Typical hey. The fact you cannot ride for a while must be awful for you.

You were released too early from hospital as the nurse above explained. Please allow yourself some decent rest.

I know the whole weight gain thing is so annoying, but in the long hall you will lose it again. I gained 3 stone in 8 weeks after my accident, I have already lost 1!

Anyway this is about you.....take care, stay in touch. Mark knows everything, he will always advise you, he has studied our condition for yrs.

Thank you Nightnurse, I will be speaking with my dr. today. I'll see if he knows any neurologists in this area.

Peaches - Yes, I am really starting to realize the volatility of this head injury. In the past few weeks I had a few days where I actually felt clear, almost normal. But, I couldn't just leave it that way, I had to test it to see if I was really better. All I did was lay flat on my back and turn my head and whoosh, all the vertigo and fogginess came right back. And, I did the same thing yesterday when I felt clear. Geez, ya think I would learn to leave it alone and enjoy the clearness.

It has been very hard not riding. I have only been back to the barn once since the accident. I would like to get back on even if it is just walking.

Ah horses, they can be heaven or ?:rolleyes:
I have a 20 yr old nutty one that I'm still 'training" LOL
A bit of a schizo ...but she's pretty to look out the window at...


Some of the weight gain is probably related to the stopping smoking, the body trying to re balance itself. Plus a bit less activity than before if you were riding & active every day.

Try not to stress on the weight too much , eat healthy and take the supplements that you can afford.

Maybe Mark can put the most important ones at the top of the list:).

Patty,

Go ahead and apply for Calif State Disability Insurance. You have been paying into it since you started working. Your account is likely full funded.

The injured brain needs to do two things, First, it needs to cleanse itself of the toxic remnants of the injury. Second, it needs to regain strength (heal) in the damaged areas. B vitamins are the most important. I suggest:

B-12 (500 to 1000 mcgs daily)
a B-50 complex, for all the other B's so you get a good balance of B's
a high potency multi-vitamin like GNC Mega Women. Centrum and One a Day are too weak.
Some extra anti-oxidants, Vit C and Vit E
D3, plenty of this, 1000 to 5000 iu's
Omega 3, 6, 9 fish oil
Calcium with magnesium

I also have added
Curcumin (pricy but worth it) 950 mgs daily This is a Turmeric extract
DHEA, 25 mgs, a hormone that helps the body balance the other hormones
a Costco High Energy multipack (7 pieces) in place of the multi-vitamin


good meat protein for the amino acids, pork is the best or for vegetarians,
a good amino acid supplement including essential fatty acid and BCAA (broken chain amino acid). Vegetarian diets are usually deficient in these so they need supplements. Spirulina is suggested as comprehensive enough.
avoid trans fats.
No caffeine, alcohol, MSG, artificial sweeteners, high fructose corn sweetener, and only moderate natural sugar.

My regimen based on the above costs about $1.30 to $1.50 per day including some non-brain supplements (arthritis).

I was started on the brain basics by a psychiatrist 30 years ago as a way to treat PCS depression and avoid medication. It was very effective. I am tempted to replace my paroxetine with 5-HTP but have not been able to find any conversion factors.

The B-12 and folic acid in the B-50 is important for repair of the myelin sheath that protects axon and dendrite fibers. The rest are for improving brain metabolism.

Mark, I don't think I will qualify for state disability. I have been self employed in the mortgage business for the past 28 years. I think I have only paid into social security disability. If I could get that disability insurance, I would love to, but I think the website said I have to wait a year from the onset.

Thank you for the list of vitamins. I will print them up and take it to CVS with me to pick some up.

Yes Jomar, horses can be quirky! What kind of horse do you have? Do you still ride? We have come to the conclusion that the reason the horse that I fell from spooked that night is because I was riding him a little later in the day than normal (7:00 pm), and since he is almost blind in the left eye (he's around 27 years old), the shadows looked different at that time of day when I leaned down to tighten the girth. So he flew backwards and fell down. Normally, this guy is the calmest, quiet lesson horse you could find. Who would have thought! :eek:

Hi Patty and Mark! I hope you had a wonderful birthday, Patty. Mark, I would be very interested to know what supplements you or any one else recommends. I am currently taking Omega-3, a B complete and multi-vitamin. Any others you are privy to that would be of assistance?

Thanks,
Carrie

carrie,

Scroll up a few posts. You will see the whole supplement regimen. You saw the earlier post with just generalities.

Today my dr. did the Epley manuever on me for dizziness/vertigo symptoms. A dr doesn't have to do it, there are plenty of videos on you tube explaining it. I am sorry that you are experiencing such distress. Head injuries are so individual, but one thing is for sure severe anxiety/worry will only hold up any progress. I have found this out the hard way. Hang in there!

Just a note to get this thread of page 3.

Hi Patty,
Just wanted to say hi to another fellow equestrian with a horse related brain injury.

I fell off right on my head in Feb 2012 and have not been back in the saddle yet. I'm getting very antsy. Asked my rehab doc about it again today and he reminded me that until I can walk unaided (cane) and am stable on my own feet that he feels its too risky for me to ride.

I feel I'd be more stable sitting on a horse than walking on my own feet, but for now I will keep trying to be patient.

I was putting trail miles on a slightly more than green broke horse that was having a melt down. I was fine for 45 minutes of her meltdown, leap, buck, leap, buck... but the thing that unseated me was ducking under a tree branch during the leap, buck, leap, buck! Then combined with one foot hung up in the stirrup and my hands caught up in the reins, I came down head first, with nothing but my helmet to break my fall. A real combination of freak circumstances.

Of course, I remember NONE of it... just pieced it back together, my husband was riding behind me and a couple of friends were out with me. Darn horses!

Anyhow, wish you the best and I hope you recover soon and get back into the saddle.
Starr

A way to get back on the horse
 

Hello all, I don't have PCS but other spinal problems. Down here they are taking horses into the water for disabled people. You mount in the water, and if you fall, nothing to get hurt. I did this earlier in the year. If you can do it, I bet the doc. will OK it. You only walk, and swim. Good excersice and a way to get back in the saddle. I wish all of you the best. ginnie

Hi Starr! I am sorry to hear about your fall! I know what you mean about being antsy to get back on and feel like you are better on a horse than off a horse right now. I feel the same way. I am still not driving due to vertigo, but I kind of feel that even if the horse spooked my " muscle memory" would take over. Since I can't drive yet, I need someone to take me to the barn which is about 13 miles from here. I have only been back once.

I was talking to my friend who I work with teaching riding and she was telling me that when she told one of our students (who is an orthopedic surgeon) that I was still not driving. Her response was " I had a concussion and was dizzy for a year. Just tell her to lie to her dr. about being dizzy and she'll be able to drive). They just don't get it! I could drive, but I don't want to get in an accident! It is very hard when people don't understand!

Hi Ginny - I have never heard of that kind of therapy for people. Sounds very interesting.

Hi
 

Sorry your feeling the way you are. Being frightened is understandable. Idon't have the problems you do so no suggestions. But here if you need someone to talk too.

Ginnie, Never heard of therapeutic riding IN the water, that's awesome! LOVE that idea. I used to teach therapeutic riding... now I need it. :o Must be indoors? Certainly the wrong time of year to be swimming with horses outside now in Canada :)

Patty, not driving would be a real hassle for getting to the barn etc. I've been driving since my accident, I'm very lucky. In hindsight, I probably shouldn't have been for the first week or two, but the ER doc only told me not to drive myself home from the hospital. I wouldn't have been able to find my way home anyhow!

Lying about being dizzy to be cleared to drive... yeah, that's not cool. Last thing you need is to cause an accident and hurt yourself more, plus the risk of hurting / killing someone else!! Yikes. Glad you're doing the right thing. *hug*

I don't fall because I'm dizzy so much, its some lack of coordination that no one has been able to nail down just yet. They've dabbled with vestibular therapy and orthopedic therapy and now I'm out of extended health coverage so my therapies are on the back burner until they renew in January.

I'm pretty confident I could ride ok, but I've been proven time and time again that I'm not a good judge of my abilities anymore. I also thought I could go down in our deep ditch last week and retrieve our garbage can lids and ended up tumbling down 12 feet to the bottom, cracking my metal cane, but not knowing... crawling up out of the ditch, standing up using my cane and SNAP it went... me falling down right at the side of our very busy road with horns blaring.

So given stuff like that, I'm trying to be patient and trust that my doc knows my limitations better than I do. But its hard. I'm antsy! ;)
Starr

Hi Patty
 

Yes Patty, the swimming with the horse was a hoot. Loved every minute. There is a causeway near by, where horses are allowed. I had forgotten how strong your legs have to be, and the fact of water resistance...I slid right of the back side, came up laughing and sputtering! Got right back on. I have had two spinal fusions, and am fused C3-7. I had no additional pain from the experience, and will go again soon. If there is a pond in your area, maybe you could try it soon too. Lots of older people went, as well as disabled kids. I hope you can get back in the saddle again. I am 6o yrs. old and can't wait for another adventure!!! ginnie

I have a Pinto breeding stock mare, Sire was a paint & dam a pinto but she is a solid coffee color w/slight roaning.

I haven't gotten back on her much at all since she bucked me off in 96.:o
Since then I had gone back to work and didn't have time between kids/family & 10 hr wk days.
Since off work (chronic RSI injury), I just didn't care to risk getting bucked off again.
She is flighty, unpredictable and smart, a bad combo.
She seems to be mellowing out now that she is getting older LOL.

My first horse was a perfect Palomino gelding:D, he spoiled me by being so good and easy to teach things to.
Of course when we are young we are usually fearless too.
My palomino did spook/bolt early from a tractor pulling a plow, and ran into a electric fence and then started bucking, that was when I got dumped on my head and got a concussion. Luckily it was minor.

Hi Starr
 

I live in Florida, and at least for another month the water will be warm enough. There are 5 stables that do this down here. No saddle, you go bare back, no helmet, etc. I was in deep water when I slid off, no kidding, this was a great experience. If you can do it, in a local lake etc in Canada, you won't regret the ride. I did this in Missouri back when I was riding. The Stable for "Sam" had a farm pond. We plunged right in during the summer months. I had not done this since I was 45. I hope you get better Starr, and that the PCS goes away, and allows you to have those fun experiences again. I never thought I would be able to do this again. Get well. ginnie:hug:

hi Jo*mar
 

I am not sure I would get back on your horse either. I have been on spooked animals before, NOT fun! My Sam was an American Saddle Bred, and he was mellow at 17 years old. Barn sour, and would run like the wind back to the barn. I had to field catch him, cute trick.... Horses are smart, and my memories are filled with those years I had him. He was blond with white main and tale. I almost bought a dappled Grey, but he spooked too easily. Glad you love horses too. Maybe you could find a good old boy or girl, that would let you get back in the saddle without fear. The "water" experience was with a 10 year old female named "Lady" and she was... I can't believe I made it through my youth, without getting dumped on my head! Ginnie:hug: