Tetany caused by calcium intake
 

I am currently experiencing some very weird sensations which I think are tetany and which I suspect are caused by calcium intake. I am feeling very agitated (for which there is absolutely no good reason, it came on very suddenly, and is definitely not my usual self...) accompanied by a strong desire to take a deep breath, which I can't, extreme muscle hyperactivity, esp. hands and wrists, tingling and numbness in the front of the tongue and lips, a feeling of collapsing in my lower throat (I have been having trouble swallowing this evening, which has been improving over the last weeks but now seems suddenly worse). I feel a great desire to pace up and down incessantly and being still causes me to feel very unwell. This is the complete opposite of my usual state because normally I can't stand up for more than a few seconds and simply don't have the ridiculous energy that I suddenly have to move about in this way.

This happened to me once before, about ten weeks ago, following taking an aspirin. The symptoms occurred within 30 minutes of my taking it. At this time I was also taking vitamin D, and I attributed my weird symptoms as a reaction to the combination of aspirin and vitamin D. But now I have it for the second time, I find only one other denominator: I have just finished drinking a hot chocolate that is very high in calcium.

I know, if last time is anything to go by, that this extremely energetic and agitated phase will be followed by a phase of much worsened muscle weakness. My question is, is it possible calcium intake has caused these symptoms? Can anybody shed any light on this? I feel I am going crazy in this state.

Ah, I just looked this up a bit better and think I understand a bit more...of course tetany in the usual case is caused by low calcium, and I know I have low blood calcium level from tests. But this hot chocolate, which I haven't drunk since I had these symptoms before (weird, never connected it) also contain high levels of bovine phosphate and are processed with alkali, which, combined with low calcium gives the effect I am getting now. Really horrible! Sorry for such a weird post, I will probably look on this tomorrow in a slightly bemused light but at least my energy is being diverted into my fingers and not pacing around the room...

Whenever I have milk products I get super sensitive and agitated. This includes lactose in pills. A doctor told me that I couldn't be allergic to lactose since it's a sugar, but regardless of what the doctor said I still have the problem. I found out that it's not just the milk but the hormone rbst or rbgh. My theory is that some of the hormone is attached to the lactose. I can't even have beef unless it's angus because angus cows aren't exposed to the hormones for milk production. I even get infections when exposed to these hormones. Recently I was taking a vitamin with bovine as an ingredient. I developed severe acne and swollen irritated breasts. I quit taking the vitamin and my hormones returned to normal.

When I tried to figure out what was causing the problems. I would write down what I ate, and I finally narrowed the culprit down to the growth hormones. I did this also for pain from my Trigeminal Neuralgia. When I got rid of all the vitamins with Magnesium Stearate in them my pains became weaker and less frequent.

There are so many things added to our vitamins and foods that can cause a variety of issues. There may be an additive in the calcium, vitamin d, and the aspirin that might give you problems. I'm not sure if this is MG related or if it's just a consequence of living in this time era, but keeping track of what's causing the problem might help.

There really isn't enough calcium in a food source to give you tetany.

What happens is that the ratio of calcium to magnesium may be skewed. Low magnesium is awful in its own way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetany

When you take vit D...you become more efficient in absorbing calcium from food. High dose Vit D in the area of 5000 IU or more a day, has some suggestions now, to lower any supplemental calcium to 600mg a day or lower.

Tetany can also come from endocrine problems. Parathyroid tumors can cause it.

True allergy to cow dairy comes from the casein protein in milk.
(not lactose-- lactose intolerance is diarrhea and gas from undigested lactose feeding the organisms in the bowel).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_allergy

MrsD, I don't know if I have an allergy to milk or lactose intolerance. A friend checked my blood sugar after I had something with milk and it was in the low 40's. My mom has hypoglycemia and I was borderline years back. I think maybe my issue with lactose may be separate from my problem with the growth hormones, but I don't know, I'm not a doctor, but I know I have a problem and so far I haven't received a clear explanation from any doctor.

What meter did you use? Lactose normally does not show up on the system used by One Touch (which reads only glucose)... but it may read on Abbott's system, as a high. Free and easy system may read other sugars, and that can be confusing.
But this does not explain a LOW in any way.

A reading of 40 is alarming....but one cannot depend on home monitors to be accurate that low. If the strips are not fresh, or you had not checked the calibration with the test solution recently, you can not rely on that reading.
When working optimally home units vary by 10pts or more per reading!

You would need a 4 hr (a 6hr would be ideal but most people cannot tolerate one this long) glucose tolerance test with accurate testing every 1/2 hr to see if and where you hit those lows.
Reactive lows may come from insulin resistance. A test for fasting insulin will show a high out of range if you have this. Too much insulin will clear the blood rapidly and cause reactive lows. This can be due to insulinoma tumors of the pancreas (not common), or the hypoglycemia illustrates an impaired glucose tolerance situation, which is a prelude to later diabetes in some people.

I think it is terrible that a reading of 40 was not followed up on by a doctor. Lows this low can cause unconsiousness, and even brain damage. (new studies on diabetics who gets lows like this show ONE low can lead to dementia!).

I'm not sure what type of meter was used. The meter was for my friend's husband who was diabetic. I was pricked on the finger and the blood was put on a strip and I can't remember much about the meter. It happened maybe seven years ago. I noticed that my thighs were really cold at the time and for some reason my friend thought to check my blood sugar. She gave me a glass of orange juice and maybe twenty minutes later retested me and I was normal.

I just avoid anything with milk or lactose, but sometimes I will get it by accident - like if I eat in a restaurant.

When I was even younger, in my 20's, I took a long test drinking some kind of concoction every so often. I was borderline hypoglycemic then. I was told to just watch my diet. I'm now 55 and just recently my GP said they no longer give the test over several hours. My glucose is normal for the standard glucose test when I don't eat anything for 24 hours, but it will not show my reaction to what the lactose may be doing to me. I don't know if the test is available elsewhere, but I live in a somewhat small town in Arizona.

The average fasting glucose is not 24 hrs...it is nothing by mouth after midnight and testing first thing in the morning.

The average test is 2 hrs now, but this will not show anything much except high glucose results if they are present.

Many of us on the PN forum have had at least one 4hr GTT.

This is a set graphs showing the test and results for elevated glucose and hypoglycemia.
http://hypoglykemie.nl/gtt.htm

I'd get a new doctor if I were you.

We live in a world which is becoming more and more synthetic.

Even if we try to have natural organically grown foods, avoid synthetic detergents etc. we can't really do it.

We are constantly exposed to numerous chemicals which are foreign to our body. How we individually respond to them depends on our genetic makeup and previous environmental exposures.

Many of those substances will not cause any damage on initial exposure, but with repeat and accumulating exposures they eventually will.
There is very limited data on the effect of chronic exposure to various substances, but the limited data there is, is quite alarming.

For instance a substance which is widely used in the cosmetic industry showed no ill effects when given to lab animals in a certain dose. But, when the same dose was used for 90 days there was a significant effect on multiple organs. A recent study showed that genetically modified crop considered safe, led to serious ill effects in lab animals exposed to it for a significant period of time (previous studies were done with a very short exposure, which caused no such effects).

There are no follow up studies on humans and physicians are not trained to recognize, diagnose (or even consider) the ill effects of such environmental exposure. So, there is no way to know what they really are.

A cup of hot chocolate can potentially contain numerous substances, which can effect the immune system, mitochondrial function and numerous metabolic processes. It depends on what you made it from.

I just made the hot chocolate by adding water, but I did use two sachets in one cup, as it tastes better. I believe the effect is accumulative as I have been drinking it for about five days now. I am not very well versed in how MG relates to low calcium levels, but I thought there was a connection, and so, given that tetany can be caused by low calcium levels, I thought it might be related?

I found that the symptoms came on very quickly, within twenty minutes of drinking the hot chocolate. I found that the symptoms were relived just as fast, about two hours later, half an hour after eating a piece of dry toast. I am not allergic to milk and drink it every day in coffee and have never had a problem. Tetany is a neuromuscular problem isn't it? Or am I confused here. Please feel free to put me right.

If the hot chocolate isn't the cause, then what is? I find it very alarming that I can go from one state (very fatigued muscles, barely able to move or speak) to pacing up and down the room. I also find it hard to believe it is just due to the hot chocolate because surely something so inocuous can't cause such an extreme reaction? I am even right is assuming these symptoms are tetany?

There are allergies to chocolate/cocoa.

Environmental physicians use a product called TriSalts to
block exaggerated allergic reactions to things.

Look at the ingredients on the packet of cocoa. There can be many additives in it. Some to make the powder flow better in the factory in the machines (and not clog up).

You could be reacting to anything in that product.

Tetany is not common outside of hospitals. The one patient I saw in community work had a hidden tumor of the parathyroid and he had a huge emergency and was transported in tetany to a hospital to have the tumor removed.

People who get thyroid surgeries can have damage to parathyroids too. Often in the hospital they are given extra calcium just in case.

You will want to make sure you are eating the RDA for magnesium daily, and if not, you should fix that. Low magnesium causes muscle spasms, and anxiety among many other things. Low enough and it can stop your heart (arrhythmia). Some drugs deplete magnesium, and diuretics including caffeine are major culprits. Use of stomach acid blocking drugs may impair magnesium absorption. If you are diabetic you lose magnesium in the urine (mechanism for this is not yet well understood).

This link will help you evaluate foods for magnesium content:
http://nutritiondata.self.com/

It is estimated from studies that up to 70% of Americans do not eat adequate magnesium containing foods. So this is a serious issue. Soaking in epsom salt baths can help restore some magnesium you may be lacking.

The thing that I dislike so much about this phase is that I am unable to move my body in this way voluntarily. I have muscle fatigue that prevents me from doing all the normal things, but then simultaneously I have an overwhelming and uncontrollable urge to move continuously.

In the first time I had this the muscle contraction was so strong it caused me to sit up in bed suddenly during my sleep. It was horrible because I can't move that fast of my own accord. It made me feel very ill, and of course, it's incredibly confusing when you're body starts to do these things and you can do nothing to control them.

Three years ago, when I first got the slurred speech and muscle weakness etc, I had bouts of strange muscle behviour that I have only now just connected. If I were to sit or lay still for some time, and then suddenly get up and try to move about, I would get the ministry of funny walks, often an uncontrollable marching movement with my legs. It sounds funny, which it was at first, but then when it keeps happening it's just so confusing. I feel like I'm going bonkers when this happens.

I see my first MG specialist + respiratory testing and EMG this coming Monday. Should I mention these symptoms? Or will it confuse the issue?

I'm sorry to post what may seem like an unrelated issue here (also for my previous post on the weird rash), but while I am still in this diagnostic process I have no idea what is related from what is not. By feeling out whether these experiences may be shared by others with MG, it helps me to understand whether that is indeed what I have, or not, as the case may be. Of course, that is ultimately for the neurologist to decide in any case.

I realize I am very reluctant, in the course of the last week, with a weird itchy rash and now muscle hyperactivity, to go to my GP. The GP I have now is very good and has never suggested that my symptoms are all in my mind, but, because so many other physicians over the past three years have told me these symptoms are a product of my imagination, it has become my default expectation. So I avoid going to the GP at all costs.

The thing which baffles me about this illness: Just when I think I understand it and can predict what it will do, it goes and does something completely different.

Thank you for this information. However, I'm pretty sure my magnesium levels are okay, if diet is anything to go by. I have a steady intake of magnesium rich foods on a daily basis -- porridge with oatbran containing dates, cinnamon and low fat natural yoghurt for breakfast, wholegrain toast or wild rice with home-made hummus containing tahini topped with sunflower seeds for lunch, supper is always wholegrains and often contains pulses...So, I think I'm at least okay on that front...

Hot chocolate is my only sin! :(

INGREDIENTS:
Sugar, corn syrup, modified whey, cocoa (processed with alkali), hydrogenated coconut oil, marshmallows (sugar, corn syrup, modified corn starch, gelatin, artificial flavor), nonfat dry milk, calcium carbonate, less than 2% of: salt, dipotassium phosphate, mono- and diglycerides, artificial flavor, carrageenan.
Contains: Milk.

Any clues?

I don't seem to have a problem with any other products containing cocoa...

I bolded your potential culprit:
http://blog.charisholisticcenter.com...-additive.aspx

Carrageenan is the suspending agent, in this product I presume.

On this link it seems that carrgeenan is leading to gastrointestinal problems, which I don't have...could this cause tetany?

They also mention, "allergic reactions"....
You'll have to Google further.

But the comments about opening pores in the GI tract to allow things to enter the body from the gut, is a real phenomenon.
This is how Celiac works....peptides get absorbed into the body this way and cause autoimmune reactions in people (when consuming gluten containing grains and foods).

These pores are now called Zonulin channels, and when they open, all sorts of things go into you thru them, since normally they are tight junctions. Then you start responding to all sorts of normal foods as a result. It can get very complex!

Also you can test this yourself....

Find another brand of cocoa without the additive and try that.

One other flow enhancer used the same way is maltodextrin.
Some people are very reactive to IT also.

My theory is that it might actually be to do with the phosphate content:

[URL="http://www.heathline.com/natstandardcontent/phosphates-phosphorous#1"]


'Excessive intake of phosphates can cause potentially serious or life-threatening toxicity. Intravenous, oral, or rectal/enema phosphates may cause electrolyte disturbances including hypocalcemia (low calcium blood levels), hypomagnesemia (low magnesium blood levels), hyperphosphatemia (high phosphorus blood levels), or hypokalemia (low potassium levels). Calcification of non-skeletal tissues (particularly in the kidneys), severe hypotension (low blood pressure), dehydration, metabolic acidosis, acute kidney failure, or tetany can occur.'

I don't think I'm gonna risk that...I felt like I was either going to have a heart attack or stop breathing. I will do anything to prevent feeling that way again!

I don't think there are enough phosphates in there to do this.
That quote was referring to use of products like Fleet's PhosPhoSoda, which was taken off the market recently for safety concerns. Magnesium phosphates were taken in high doses to clean out the bowel, prior to Xrays and other tests of the GI tract. Enemas also are culprits.

Phosphate however is very common and in almost all foods we eat.
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/p...rus-000319.htm

What I am thinking is that you have some form of acid/base balance problem, perhaps from shallow breathing due to MG issues? Hyperventilation is one cause of tetany, and paresthesias. Our blood is carefully buffered by the body, but altered breathing patterns can wreak havoc with that balance.
This article explains it well:
http://health.nytimes.com/health/gui.../overview.html

It's very complex, yet very simple.

People are smart enough to create substances that fool their senses and make their life more comfortable-in the short and intermediate term.

They are not smart enough to realize that there is a limit to the burden of foreign materials they can put on the human body. They are not smart enough to realize how little they truly know about the normal and abnormal physiology and how little they truly know of the effects of seemingly minor alterations on human health.

The fact that they do not see immediate detrimental results makes them think that this practice is safe. Their greed makes them create more and more such substances (as previous ones have been proven to be safe).

We now see more and more, the detrimental results of this approach. If you bother to read (and not ignore) you will see on a nearly weekly basis results of studies showing endocrine dysfunction, neurotoxicity, fertility, cancer caused by such seemingly safe substances.

I would personally suggest that you stop eating processed foods. I would clearly not use more than the recommended amount of such foods. I would not use any product which has the words- artificial flavor or fragrance on it.

Those seemingly innocent names hide a myriad of potentially toxic materials. Those are considered "professional secrets" and therefore the law does not require disclosure of the actual ingredients.

There is nothing healthy or nutritious in the ingredients you mentioned:

Sugar- has a stimulant effect on the brain. It should come from fresh fruits in moderate amounts and not as a highly concentrated processed additive.
corn syrup- is toxic to the liver, just like alcohol. modified whey-why modified? and what is the source?
cocoa (processed with alkali)-why processed.
hydrogenated coconut oil-why processed
marshmallows (sugar, corn syrup, modified corn starch, gelatin, artificial flavor),
nonfat dry milk-what is the source and why dry?
calcium carbonate
, less than 2% of: salt, dipotassium phosphate, mono- and diglycerides, artificial flavor, carrageenan-those are supposedly safe levels of synthetic materials that shouldn't enter your body at all. They are added because they fool your senses and make the product look and taste good.

At the time these symptoms came on, my breathing was normal. As the symptoms began I started feel the urge to take big deep breaths but couldn't - I wouldn't describe this as hyperventilating, since my breaths were not shallow and rapid -- they were shallow, infrequent and sporadic.

I realize I was still having residual effects from the tetany symptoms this morning, but now they are beginning to wear off.

I have just been trying to prepare some lunch. I become very breathless on standing/moving and my chest feels terrible even sitting still. It is as if I forget to breathe on every breath and have to remind myself to take another one. It feels more effort to breathe than not to breath, as my body feels like doing. I feel faint and very confused, I can't think straight.

Surely if my symptoms were cause by breathing issues, I would be experiencing tetany now, as a consequence of increased difficulty breathing, rather than after the tetany symptoms have began to subside?

I think there is a much more simple explanation: aspirin should not be taken by MG´ers, paracetamol should be used instead...!
Maurice.

Unfortunately I can't blame this one on aspirin!

To clarify -- my overwhelming sensation is one of underbreathing - not over breathing, as in the case of hyperventilation. Secondly, the numbness and tingling in my lips and tongue was the very first symptom I experienced, before I began having the difficulties with breathing.

Oops, I meant 12 hours.

Question:
 

What is teteny and how does it apply to MG?

It is the symptoms I described at the beginning of this post; extreme muscle hyperactivity, difficulty taking a deep breath, agitation with no clear cause, numbness/tingling in the lips and tongue etc. I am not sure how it relates to MG which is why I asked the question -- however, I'm still not sure what the answer is!

wildcat- have you looked into isaacs syndrome?? I also had very similar symptoms as you, especially in the begninning.. numbness/tingling, and then I felt like my muscles were just doing this constant "thing" i can't even describe it.. i told my husband almost 2 years ago now.. that it felt like what tetnus would feel like.. like fingernails on a chalkboard, but inside my muscles at all times.. even while I slept.. I felt like I would wake up feeling like I was beat to death! I Have had bulbar and respiratory signs and well every other sign too!
Anyhow.. Isaacs or neuromyotonia can cause a lot of these symptoms... My needle emg is always negative.. but i still have these symptoms, just not as bad at all with ivig now..

Wild_Cat, It's not hyperactivity but HYPOactivity. The numbness and tingling could be not enough oxygen getting to your tissues. "Under breathing" is the inability to take a breathe in. That's classic MG. Being unable to breathe and get oxygen can cause agitation. Other things like low calcium (see my post to you) can cause muscle twitching. Low sodium can cause agitation. You need a real DOCTOR!!!

If you feel like this again, you need to be in an ER.

Annie

never thought about it that way Annie- that's a very good point... my muscle agitation is always worse after exertion.. wonder if it's due to lack of oxygen? Right before I was admitted one year ago, i couldn't take a breath in before a sneeze.. it was the strangest thing.. humm???