Glucosamine, chondroitin?
 

It has been suggested to me to take glucosamine and chondroitin for the knee problems I am having.

I thought I would ask MrsD or anyone here if they have any opinions on these supplements in relation to pn? I do not want to take anything that would make my pn worse.

I am not a fan of glucosamine products. They just don't work for me.

One thing to try for arthritis is SAMe. I found that helped me greatly, but slowly, for my bad right knee. Start at the lowest dose when you begin if you decide to try it. And also get the Brand name version...by Naturemade. Its price has come down quite a bit now. I worked my way up dose-wise over 3 months to 600mg a day taken in the morning. But this product can cause
tension/anxiety if the dose is too strong for you. I didn't find it
much help for nerve pain however. It is good for osteoarthritis though.

thanks MrsD!!!!

I will pick that up at walgreens today. What dose should I start out at?

MrsD I read that naturmade includes talc as an ingredient what do think about that?

Also, do you have an stomach problems with this? That seems to be the biggest side affect people talk about severe stomach cramps.

Same here. Thanks.

Smallest dose of SAMe is 200mg a day. Take first thing in the morning and on an empty stomach as it is "energizing".

SAMe was difficult to make into an oral form. That is why I recommend only NatureMade. We don't really have a choice of additives for this product....as when it came here it was injection only, from Europe..mostly Italy used it as injectable at the doctor's office.

SAMe is part of the methylation cycle. People who are poor methylators would do well on SAMe, because the methyl group is already on the homocysteine--to be delivered to the liver where it helps with drug metabolism and toxins, to the joints, and to the brain for neurotransmitter synthesis.

Some people get too hyped up on SAMe and don't do well with it. But for others it is really a neat nifty enabler.
I remember when I first bought it over 10 yrs ago... My son had lost all his HBAs I had packed for first semester college. I stayed upNorth, and his Dad took him and moved him in. He put the bag down in the hall for just a few minutes and someone stole it. So when I got back home I sped over to WalMart to replace his shower gear, and misc. stuff, and there was a sale on the mucho expensive SAMe... I could afford to try it finally. Back then it was over $1.50 a tablet!

I was working several contingent jobs, all with different computer systems, going thru menopause, and really totally stressed out with it all. The SAMe rather saved me! And my knee which the MRI said I had synovitis, was pretty inflamed.
I credit avoiding a knee replacement, and my left knee never joined the predicted 5yr flare up the doctor said would happen.
I kept on SAMe until about 2 yrs ago, thinking I'd done what could be done, and wanted the money for other supplements.

I can still get a flare of pain now, and take the SAMe for about 2 weeks, and it goes away. But I rarely use it anymore.

Take only 200mg a day for a month. You'll discover if you can handle it. If it is too energizing, take 200mg every other day for that month. If you still cannot tolerate it...then you don't need it.

Thanks mrsD!

I really want to try this, but I am terrified of the stomach issues. I read over 100 reviews, most all great but the 20% that were negative all focused on the stomach issues, a few even went to the hospital. Some talk about it causing ulcers, yikes.

I already have acid reflux issues, I still can't take Rlipoic acid so this is scary to me.

One review said its the manitol?? (may have spelled wrong or got wrong dont remember now) They said look for it without that in it. Have you heard of that?

SAMe is enteric coated and does not even dissolve in the stomach.

The most common stomach thing may be a little nausea, but even then it is not really a common side effect.
Really I know many people who use or used SAMe and the most often complained about issue is the hyper initial effects, which wear off in a few days. Depending on your neurotransmitter status, the hyper thing may or may not happen.

I have a hiatal hernia and a birth defect (twisted stomach and esophagus) and have borderline gall bladder issues, and never had a GI problem with SAMe.

For 10 YEARS!

Everyone is different however. Omega-3's cured my GERD in 3 months. I used to take Prilosec when it first came out. I don't need it anymore!
There are many causes of GERD.

I don't see SAMe causing ulcers... it doesn't even dissolve there.
That person could have had an ulcer already forming, who knows? Internet reports should be taken guardedly.

However, Stacy, if you are the highly anxious type, reactive, etc, SAMe would probably make you more anxious.

Yes, true, internet is take with a grain of salt.

However, most are surprised that i can not take Rlpoic acid, lol. I seem to be in that "weird 10%" that has issues with acid reflux or stomach issues. :(

Low carb diet got rid of acid reflux for months and now just last week it is back and I am back on my vinegar, which I have not had to do for 6 months. However...nov and dec were large cheat months for carbs so maybe that is it.

Today is my BACK TO STRICK DIET and EXERCISE routine. Matter of fact I am SITTING my in exercise clothes right now as I type....all I have to do is go use them now, lol

thanks mrsD you are so helpful and quick to help and I appreciate it. I am going to try this and pray for no stomach issues. My knee, which I have SELF diagnosed as arthiritis, lol is hurting. It is fine until I sit for too long then when I stand up i am almost cripple...I literally have to hold dh arm until I "walk it out" then about a minute after walking the pain subsides but that first getting up at a movie theatre kills me. :(

MrsD the more I research SAMe the more and more severe stomach issues are reported. It's pretty common actually, and severe in many people, not just a few. Yes, it has amazing reviews and positive feedback but for the people that it affects with stomach issues, it seems to be severe.

SAMe is enteric coated...it will not dissolve in the stomach....unless these few people who report stomach issues have NO ACID in their stomachs at all! Enteric coatings remain intact in acidic environments.

Now that is abnormal, since acid is required in our stomachs to digest food, kill pathogens, and facilitate absorption of nutrients.
If one's stomach is so barren of acid, that an enteric coated pill will dissolve there, then I think that person is in a very tight spot, with a guarded future healthwise.

This Amazon review list is pretty representative of SAMe. There will always be people who get headaches (as side effects) and stomach upsets when taking anything.

http://www.amazon.com/Nature-Made-Co...owViewpoints=0

I have the most sensitive stomach ever...if you could see the list of what I cannot eat (including coffee) you'd blanch. I had no problems with SAMe for 10 yrs!

But everyone is different.

I have never had a problem either. I take it daily.

OK thanks guys! I guess there are alot of people with no acid, lol! Or some reason why so many people #1 complaint is stomach pains. Guess I will find out and pray I am not one of them. :)

If you take Prilosec or the equiv every day you won't have
much acid....think about that.

I think you should pass on this.

In my experience...people get hyper and anxious on SAMe and that is
what I have seen. The younger you are, the more likely you will be
hyper.

Thought I read it here as well as other places that long term use of Prilosec can reduce the body's ability to absorb Vitamin B12.

Yes, it does, among other things! :rolleyes:

We need acid in our stomachs --it is a evolutionary trait, that humans have recently with much hubris decided to change.

I have never taken prilosec.

I use vinegar & baking soda to control my acid reflux and if that is not enough I have used zantac but it never really worked so I really never took it consistantly or that long.

I am also not hyper.

I AM catious.

I do not like flare up, cuz when it flares up, it can get out of control and hard to get back under control and the pain is not worth it, so I am very careful. It almost got bad enough for me to give in to the nexium that my dr wanted to prescribe, and honestly, had I not got it under control and most likey had I not changed my eating habits and lost weight I would have given in my now to the nexium. The pain was like a heart attack.

So, I am not worried about the hyper part, that really isn't an issue for me. Just concerned. But I can only try it and see what happens. As with the Rlipoic, I am not one to keep trying to take something once it provokes a flare up of the acid reflux, and all I have to lose is more money.

thanks everyone!

Same goes for Nexium. I believe there are others as well in the same class as Prilosec and Nexium and Zantac if taken long term.

Stacy, it is always good to start low. I always do. On everything. Just to test. With Alkeseltzer is is so easy to just take a little. Good luck! :)

Thanks!!!! :)

I have very sensitive stomach to some medicines and supplements. However, when Mrs. D mentioned the SAM-e for my arthritis (at that time, I was taking Glucosamine for years) and tried it, it did not bother my stomach. AND the most important thing was after only 2 weeks of taking, I noticed the sore pain in the joints of my arms were less. I dont take SAM-e regularly now but I take them on some occassions when I have bad joint pains.

Stacey, did you try Kefir? and some yogurts? The reason why I am asking is because I am taking combinations of strong antibiotics now and the treatment will take about 15-18 months. I associate my tolerance to the antibiotics to Kefir and yogurts. And of course, I am taking Nexium. How I wish I can stop Nexium but I dont want to rock the boat for now. My stomach can tolerate my medications.

I have never taken strong antibiotics or any antibiotic for a length of time. Maybe strep throat and penicillin but I have been pretty blessed in that I have not taken alot of any meds. No nexium or strong antiacid pills either, but I am someone who avoids meds at all costs and will go the natural way if I can, which is why I use vinegar for my reflux.

I don't eat yogurt but have taken strong acidophilus pills off and on through my life.

I still have not bought the SAMe yet but I plan to.

thanks!

If given the choice I don't want take ANY medications. But I don't have much option this time. The bacteria that infects me will not go on its own.

Oh gosh I did not mean to imply anything negative by my comment. Of course if you need medication you take it. I do too!!!! :)

Oh no, there was nothing negative about your comment neither did I think that u were implying something -- I was echoing your sentiments about taking medicines because I really don't want taking them but I am in this situation that I have to take the bitter pill -- and I am concerned about the side effects. :-(

Well Im taking my first pill right now, hope it goes well. Boy these things are expensive for a supplement at walgreens, $40!!! And that is for the 200mg, which was more expensive than the 400 for some reason. Geeze, is there gold in these things? lol

Yes, they have always been pricey.... But they work and are
a unique treatment, which is only doctor given in Europe!

If you bought NatureMade, there is a code # on the box, and
you go to their website, and sign in with an ID and after
500pts, you get a $7.00 coupon towards your next purchase.
3 boxes of SAMe usually fit that bill. I subsidized my expenses
with that rebate for many years! ;)

The code is usually on the lid of the box.

I never was lucky in registering the code number in my purchases. Everytime I encode the number, a prompt of "code is expired" reflects on the screen. I got tired of trying:-( I bought my SAM-e from the commissary.

NatureMade changed their codes last year. If you had the old boxes, they gave 3 months to enter them, then those did expire.
I'd assume the Military would have bought in bulk, and those old
codes may still be around.

All the major stores now have the new codes...I have some of them so I know. They sent me an email to enter any old box tops people were saving, and that is what I did. I would save the tops in a spot on a shelf and then when I felt like it I'd enter them all at once. I have 3000pts I haven't used yet entered in there! LOL

Cool I will remember that..if I keep taking it.

So far my stomach is making loud noises and had 1 little twinge but nothing big. But reflux never acts up immediately, with the Rlipoic it took 2 days. But Iam praying and believing it wont happen with this.

thanks

Hope you can take it fine Stacey. :)

I have that feeling of food sitting in my throat...Im telling myself its all in my head, and NOT my throat. :(

I guess paranoia could do it, but this is how Rlipoic start out. I will still take it again tomorrow, not willing to give up yet...like I said, Im telling myself its all in my HEAD. NOT my throat, lol.

Im sure some of you probably think I am imagining this, or even paranoia is bringing it on. I wish it were the case, hope it is actually, unfortunately, I simply know how sensitive I seem to be to things. But I am always hopeful and continue to try things on the chance it might work. I dont ever regret trying.

Take with plenty of water so it flushes out quickly ....into the intestine.

If you have poor acid in stomach, it may start to dissolve in
your stomach, because the pH is not acidic enough for the enteric coating. This takes time however, and you should move
it along on an empty stomach quickly.

Ya, I did, I drank about 12 ounces of water then ate about 45 minutes afterwards.

Maybe I will try drinking my vinegar an hour after taking it, that might help.

On an empty stomach it should move on in 20minutes or so.

Any "feelings" you have now are not related to the physical presence of the tablet.

However, if you have insomnia tonight, I wouldn't take it tomorrow morning. Try the next day instead.

I didn't get any subjective feelings with the SAMe for 3 days.
Then POW... I wanted to clean cupboards, and what not!

It takes some time to get into the methylation cycle... it is not instantaneous like a drug would be.

Ya, I did not feel anything at all from it.

Clean cabinets??? That's gonna have to be one stronggggg pill to accomplish THAT!! LOL

Well, I have not had the food stuck in throat feeling in a long time...and the Rlipoic acid was the same way, didn't occur right away but later. But I am still hopeful, we shall see. :)

Day3 and it's ok. I still had some feeling of food in throat last night but I am doing vinegar/baking soda and dealing with it. No pain, no bad flare up, but today is day 3.

I do not feel anything but I really do believe my knee hurts less already. Is that in my head? I dunno. I can't imagine it could help that fast but it does seem like it hurts less.

The expiriment continues.......

MrsD, would sure love to get the energy feeling to clean my cabinets, haha!

It still might arrive. My son has tried SAMe 3 times over the years. He starts out well, but by about 3-4 weeks the hyper bit starts and he claims his neck gets stiff from the tension, and he
quits it again.

He had some depressing times in school, and just after, worrying too much about finding a job, etc...He liked SAMe too but couldn't take the tension.

For me it was the reverse. Soon after starting I really felt it kick in, but after a month or so I got used to it and didn't feel the "jolt". I assumed I needed a higher dose and by 600mg a day was at a good level with unchanging effect. My knee inflammation got better within months, and after several years, never flared again. When I discontinued about 2 yrs or so ago, my knee had some mini- flares, so I take the SAMe for about a month when those happen. I was in menopause then, and really the SAMe significantly helped my clouded thinking too...I used to get so tired and stressed out, and that went away with the SAMe.

I assumed my son didn't really "NEED" it... and we are 34 yrs apart in age, and that older people may atrophy some and the SAMe perks that up etc.

How long do you think I should stay at 200mg a day? Should I up it?

Take it for 2 weeks and see what happens. I think the joint effects are pretty slow. It is not a drug....it is a rebuilder and support. So it takes time.