Soy Infant Formula and Triggering Tourettes
 

There is a discussion at Latitudes TS forum on the possible negative impact of soy infant formulae on neurological development and susceptibility to TS

there is so much detailed info posted from articles that, rather than repost all here, I will just link for anyone interested.

I must say that, although my lids never had soy or any other formula, yet this is info I had not seen before and, altho it is still very much just info and not yet verified research reports.....yet it is very interesting I think

anyway
here is the discussion there and I would be interested in what others think

http://www.latitudes.org/forums/inde...showtopic=2340

G'day! I love the way you wrote "lids".

That's rhyming slang here in Australia for kids... the tin lids LOL :D Not that I'd use rhyming slang too often.

Heck, you probably already know what I'll think about the soy business, but I'll take a peek.

EDITED to ADD:
It's a long thread, I will read it all later.
Just a note though, my children wouldn't have eaten soy at all when they were little as far as I remember. I don't know very much at all about soy milk formula either. Not something I used at all. There was a lot in the news recently about soy and cancer. One minute we were being warned about our consumption, the next minute they backpeddled and said it was ok in moderation. All very confusing this stuff.

aint that the truth:rolleyes:


Lids=kids
hehehe well, I am glad to hear my typo actually still meant something

tin lids :D I love it!

I just thought of something while I was doing something else. I'm trying to cut down my time typing to ease some pain I'm having, but I can't help myself lol :cool:

Earlier I noticed someone on that thread mentioned the rise in numbers of people being diagnosed with TS or that TS is on the rise, or something to that effect.

(not everyone with TS does get formally diagnosed, btw, but that's a whole book so I won't write that now. lol)

Apart from a lot of other reasons, one particular reason for that would be because the actual Diagnostic Criteria have changed leaving out the distress clause. DSM IV included that. DSM IV-TR, the current edition of the manual leaves it out. i.e. Leaves out... "The disturbance causes marked distress or significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning." There has been a lot of discussion about the benefits or otherwise of this in previous years.

yep.....I agree with chnged diagnostics leading to changed diagnoses!!

what actually got my attention even more with all the soy stuff was not so much any bearing it may or may not have on TS, but rather the issue of babies being exposed to the oestrogenic isoflavones:eek:
that, and the issue of high manganese and aluminum in soy formula is sure a bit alarming!!

hmmmm...
 

the phytoestrogens are much weaker physiologically than mammalian estrogen.
So I always get rather confused when articles state the horrors of soy formula.

Soy WILL complex out zinc however, and that is not good.

If formula is the ONLY source of food, I would be concerned as well. If it is a supplement to a toddler, I would expect less effect.

The estrogen issues is complex... try to understand THIS::rolleyes:
http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi...stract/80/1/14

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/79/3/396

on rats:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...2/ai_n14816156

This article gives potencies of various "estrogens"
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...32/ai_20153477
Genestein is about 1000 times less potent than Estradiol.
I have read "thousand" before in earlier papers, and perhaps more than a thousand.

I have often wondered how much estrogen we get from meat. ???
Also the environment is full of estrogenic compounds as well. (water)
Some fire retardants are anti-thyroid in actions, for example.

Not an easy subject to understand, with many conflicting studies so far.

sure is a complex subject mrsD

I think the major cause for concern seems to be the infants that are being fed soy from birth and as their main nutritional source for those early developmental years

I was a vegitarian while preggers and beyond, and ate mucho soy. Though I also consumed eggs/milk/cheese.

Very interesting discussion, thanks.

keeping perspective....
 

I really take some issue with those scary statements about babies exposed
to estrogen from soy.

You are aware that both sexes are exposed to hormones in the womb.
Male babies have large genitalia and often can even have small breasts when
delivered. This typically resolves with time.

If babies were exposed to the level of estrogen stated in those articles--we'd SEE the effects.
Now isoflavones are very very weak estrogens, thousands of times weaker than the estrogens used in birth control pills.
So these statements are confusing and alarming without backup data, on cause/effect. Just about every living thing has estrogenic compounds in it...plants use these estrogenic related compounds as antioxidants. I recall reading an article in Science News not too long ago that estrogens are in mulloscs (snails). Babies who are breastfed get minute amounts of human hormones as well.

We would SEE the effects on the genitalia of those babies..and I have not seen articles to that effect.
However, if a female fetus is exposed to birth control pills, there can be damage to the developing genitalia of that child.. this is known.

Here is an interesting article on xenoestrogens in the environment...and I think these are much more alarming.
http://www.coem.com/conference-details.asp?confid=18
It is postulated that the increase of early menarche (in some areas in girls 8yrs old) is due to xenoestrogen and estrogen in meat exposures.

I still think we are not receiving accurate data on this topic. And it has been 10 years of controversy sadly.

interesting info mrsD ..........thanks for adding good balance to the controversy.

Thanks Mrs. D.

I agree on this .... Here is an interesting article on xenoestrogens in the environment...and I think these are much more alarming.

I read an interesting article related to our conversation, that speaks about many environmental substances: New Thinking on Neurodevelopment

Snip...

The notion that some substances in the environment can damage the nervous system has an ancient history. The neurotoxicity of lead was recognized more than 2,000 years ago by the Greek physician Dioscerides, who wrote, “Lead makes the mind give way.” In the intervening millennia many other substances have been added to the list of known or suspected neurotoxicants. Despite this accumulation of knowledge, there is still much that isn’t understood about how neurotoxicants affect the developing brain, especially the effects of low-dose exposures. Today researchers are taking a hard look at low-dose exposures in utero and during childhood to unravel some of the mysteries of impaired neurodevelopment.

LINK

I highly recommend it, it's an interesting read.

Wow....
 

That is a great article, Laurensmom.

You are right, I did find it interesting. I don't want to say "enjoy" since that
implies pleasure...and learning about these things is pretty scary, not pleasurable. But necessary.

I am going to save that link! Thanks, so much!

yes...very informative link.
thanks Laurensmom

I had no idea this was being discussed here!

I only have a minute, but quickly reading thru this thread, I wanted to add a little.

The effects of soy on fertility, was not my main focus, althought disturibing.

This was the study that I thought any Mom considering using soy, to feed an infant, should be aware of.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...3Doff%26sa%3DX


National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences (NIEHS)

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
10 January 2006
NIEHS PR #06-02 NIEHS Contact:
Robin Mackar
919.541.0073


Component in Soy Products Causes Reproductive Problems in Laboratory Mice
Genistein, a major component of soy, was found to disrupt the development of the ovaries in newborn female mice that were given the product. This study adds to a growing body of literature demonstrating the potentially adverse consequences of genistein on the reproductive system.

Similar article
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...3Doff%26sa%3DX


The NIEHS researchers previously showed that mice given genistein immediately after birth had irregular menstrual cycles, problems with ovulation, and problems with fertility as they reached adulthood. The new study looks at the direct effects of genistein on the ovaries during early development.

My bigger concern, that you all have touched on is the content of manganese, the effects on zinc, the amount of aluminum ingested (with the increased blood brain barrier and intestinal tract permeability in an infant) along with the content in infant vaccinations.

I hope you all will add any comments that you may have on this article. This was not included in the soy thread on latitudes.

I know its hard to extrapolate info on the levels of manganese used in these young pigs, to infants and the use of soy, but I thought the interplay btwn manganese and magnesium was highlighted well here.

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/130/8/2032

Although manganese (Mn) is an essential component of several enzymes involved in carbohydrate, lipid and protein metabolism, it also is a toxic element (Khan et al. 1997 ). Acute Mn toxicity in humans is characterized by a crippling neurological disorder resembling Parkinson’s disease in humans (Chandra et al. 1974 , Cotzias 1958 ). Although Mn toxicity also has been reported in animals (Grummer et al. 1950 , Khan et al. 1997 ), Leibholz et al. (1962) fed growing swine 72.8 mmol Mn/kg diet without mortality or severe morbidity. Grummer et al. (1950) fed growing swine up to 9.1 mmol Mn/kg diet and observed "retarded appetite and growth especially during the latter part of the trial," but no deaths. However, Grummer et al. (1950) did speculate that Mn may cause some symptoms of toxicity at concentrations between 0.91 and 1.82 mmol Mn/kg diet.

AND

There are several possible points of interaction between Mn and Mg. The body can replace Mn with Mg with similar efficiency in Mn-activated proteins (Wapnir 1990 ). Similarly, Mn can occupy Mg allosteric sites in Mg-activated proteins, such as the sarcoplasmic reticulum calcium ATPase (Chiesi and Inesi 1981 ). Mn-supplemented diets increased Mg excretion through the urine in rats (Gaillard et al. 1996 ), and Mg deficiency increased the Mn absorption and retention in rats (Sanchez-Morito et al. 1999 ). Scheuhammer and Cherian (1983) reported that Mn decreases Mg concentrations in both heart and bone by an undefined mechanism. Sanchez-Morito et al. (1999) found that feeding rats a diet deficient in Mg decreased urinary and fecal Mn excretion. They also observed greater Mn retention in skeletal muscle, heart and kidney in Mg-deficient rats as compared to control.

AND

In conclusion, these data suggest that Mn exacerbates Mg deficiency and is responsible for a decrease in heart muscle Mg concentrations. This reduction of Mg concentrations in the heart may therefore be a contributing factor in the deaths observed in pigs fed high Mn.

good to see you here Kim :)

yes, after seeing what you had posted at Latitudes, this seemed a discussion to have here too, given how soy formula is pretty widely used these days.

For those who dont yet know Kim...she is a whiz at finding articles on the web!
and really knows how to dig into info. MUCH appreciated for all I have learned from her!

Cheri,

I just wanted to say thank you for your interest in this topic and so much more.

Your knowledge, grace and dedication has been beneficial to so many.

It has been a blessing (for myself and my boys) knowing you. :hug:

Kim