Iontophoresis
 

I am at the pain clinic and the doc of course doesbt understand or believe in pec minor blocks

She suggested i do Iontophoresis

Wtf is this

Also is giving some kind of nerve cream

Whatever

Time to go to another clinic. Are pec minor blocks that hard to get???

okay ive calmed down at a bit, at first i read that this is for sweating. it's not..it's

Iontophoresis with topical dexamethasone

"Doesn't believe in pec minor blocks..."

Are you sure your pain management doctor understands that it would be for diagnostic purposes and not for pain management? Because pec minor blocks only last for a couple hours which could be why your doctor is thinking "wtf is this woman talking about... a pec minor block isn't going to help her!" I would suggest talking to a vascular surgeon or another specialist who diagnoses TOS about the pec minor block. Have you tried just calling a bunch of neurologists/vascular surgeons in the area and talking with their nurse about whether they diagnose TOS and how many patients with TOS they see?

I tried iontophoresis. Got very minor relief. Got a burn because I bumped the electrode and didn't know it broke connection, or something, and kept zinging me for the duration of the treatment... :(. Didn't hurt that bad, but caused a burn effect. Oh we'll. got over that with a little scar as a reminder.

It's often a problem with communication or lack of understanding of TOS by providers. Maybe the pain mgmt doc has your best interest at heart. He may be trying to save you money and risk of harm. Blocks are not without risk.

Even my best doctors found treating all my problems challenging.

I had to think my way through things and make notes for upcoming visits, for both of us.

Write down complaints, questions and concerns. Stay focused. Check them off when you're satisfied or have a better understanding.

If it's a healthcare professional you find helpful, please listen to what they are trying to tell you. What they may be trying to tell you may not register at the time of your visit, or you're not prepared to address that issue. It may not be the fix but they may be trying to get you to another level of relief. It took a long time to peel the layers away for me.

I hope you find someone you have confidence in...

thanks ladies

i need to do some calling around

i just cant take a pain management doctor serious who prescribes me hand cream for numb hands with me pointing to my pecs and saying..i push here and my hands tingle!! once she started saying that i was..tuning out. also i would like for someone who understand pec minor and scalene muscles at least. she said tos was caused by a bone spur. i am totally open to the idea that i dont have tos and i do have neuritis (which is what she wrote on the form) or the worst peripheral neuropathy ever but only if she is knowledgeable about tos to begin with..which she wasnt.

i do think injections of some sort might help or dry needling (wahtever releases the muscle more than massage..massage is not working). so i am willing to try that before a block.

i guess ill just call pain centers and ask if theyve dealt with tos.
vascular doctors dont believe me and tbh i dont think its vascular unless im just really abusing my shoulder. i used to sleep on my sides and id wake up with my whole arm swollen..i think because it was so droopy

Just remember, it's usually the vascular surgeons not neurologists/neurosurgeons that take care of NTOS.
I would call them and see what their TOS experience is then determine if it's worth a trip to see them to get a definitive diagnosis.

mspennyloafer,

I just got a pec minor block earlier this week as I threw myself into a major flare when I was knocked flat on my back the prior week. My doctor did this with the hopes that the anesthetic would break the flare. My physiatrist who did the block said he's getting a new appreciation for the pec minor and also said that he's probably the only one in my area that does the block. My physiatrist works directly with several local TOS surgeons.

My suggestion is follow the advice above about finding an experienced TOS surgeon who probably works with several physiatrists/pain mgmt doctors. These physiatrists/pain mgmt doctors will be more aware of TOS and treatment options.

You might have to travel a bit to find a good surgeon.

good luck!

I did not know this

Thank you all
Im in Atlanta fwiw

Neirher of the vasc docs thought i had enough muscle to get tos

But if its not muscular
Not bones
Then what is it!

Post injury neuropathy??

Ugh this is why I need the block
this is driving me insane

That makes no sense. I used to be a very muscular person. I threw discus and shotput, ran cross country and track, swam, and just was overall- pretty active. Then my shoulders gave out on me and I did practically nothing to baby them. Now, I naturally hold more muscle than most people, but NO ONE would look at me and say "wow, you look athletic." I've had a bit of atrophy due to the TOS especially on my left hand side. There was also no indication that I was made aware of that I had any boney abnormality. That being said, I did, indeed, have AVNTOS. Scar tissue, poor posture, and prior injury can all cause TOS so your vascular surgeons are full of crap if they say that you aren't muscular enough to have it. Am I positive you have TOS? Of course not, I'm no doctor, however your doctors can't be positive that you don't because they haven't run the necessary tests to rule it out.

Amen!

Stupid doctors
Today im going to try to find better ones

ive been "milking" my pec minor..like i can press these little bubble things and milk them out. also pressing into the area under collarbone on p minor and i guess those qualify as trigger points because i feel it in my elbows and wrist

if i rake over the muscle with my hands i hear the bone underneath. is that normal?? :confused:

this has helped

working on my scalenes tends to just irritate me more than anything. i really think theyre just reacting to everything else, including my awful tmj

my brachial plexus being scarred scares the **** out of me. when i got shooting pains up and down my arms im sure i scarred it. i guess whatever controlls my serratus anterior. i couldnt lift my arms for a fwe days..that was years ago now tho

i wish i coudl sleep on my back. if i do the pec minor stretch in the morning, hands always tingle. from a bad sleeping position im assuming

You're hearing fascia breaking up. Not really bone. Just my experience with pecs, scalenes, arms, elbows, wropists, thumbs, last two fingers on each hand, tmj...

Oddly as it may sound, at one time I found peace and comfort realizing my arms were not going to fall off or explode. :D

Baby, I've been there. Dark period in my life... :eek::(:mad::p:confused:

My therapist and I did know, Botox injections eased my popping tmj, for about two weeks. Yeah, that's about how long the relief lasted, to the tune of $400 a pop. It did give me a step up on the recovery ladder. Also cause my right eyelid to droop. I could see that more prominent during the two weeks, too. I asked the Ent doc about that, too. His reply was, "No way. You're not wired up that way." And he raised his rates.

Is a cold, cold world we find ourselves in... :cool:

I love NT because people here know where I'm coming from. They've been there, too.

It's not all bad, though. You just need to get some positive things going on for you.

A good pain management doc told me, it would be like peeling the layers off an onion. Boy, was he ever right. I saw him one month after Dr. Powell And he adamantly disagreed and challenged Dr. Powell's diagnosis. So, word to the wise, let the buyer beware and be informed. We are consumers of a big business. I don't mind doctors and healthcare professionals make good/great money for their education, knowledge, skills and expertise. When you find the right one, it will make a big difference. It will not be no quick fix, my friend. :hug:

We're here for you.

BTW, keyboarding, which I do for a living, doesn't help. Ergonomics is a must.
Relaxation and deep belly breathing techniques is a must. Yoga is a good starting point. Don't worry about impressing anyone. Just do what you can. Use a chair for tree pose, and the like. Just don't do nothing, ok? :winky:

Don't worry about typing mistakes. Just move on. Well get it, ok... :wink:

thanks wow, :eek: well i guess botox is overrated then. i won't press for that anymore.

i still think id benefit from accupuncture and its a hell of a lot cheaper. i do a few pilates moves every day when definitely help. i wish i could do more.

i can barely keyboard with my hands being this numb 24/7 and i cant double click on a mouse, i have to hold a marker and do it, im amazed i can even work part time. i keep worrying im going to get fired

it sucks when i feel like ive made so much progress with the fascia/onion layers and then i wake up and its like all tight all over again!!!!! even when ive slept great. ugh

You need to drink plenty water. Helps with the fascia and toxins you're breaking up. Removes toxins... I promise.

Sleeping or laying/resting with your Palms up was a great morsel someone passed along to me on here. :D

I had to give up smoking and cutdown on caffeine intake... For minute relief and better help. See, you don't need to cause irritation. Avoid it. Maybe even chocolate. I forgot.

I learned quickly to clutch things I need to carry to my chest. Not outstretched arms.

I also used my feet quite a bit. Even set my copier in the floor for a year or two. I did use my feet for that. Believe it or not. Pick up items off the floor. Bad back too.

Blow dryer on a stand is a must for hair.

A warm shower with the water beating my scalenes, if able, would make fascia more plyable for me to work on.

Physical Therapy had a nice whirlpool, with an aqua treadmill.

My goal was, and still is, to get stronger, to hold my bulges and herniations in. That is my answer to a lot of my problems. I'm a work in progress. :cool:

Later in years, I learned keeping my upper body, and scapulas fleece warm cut down on the pain level. :grouphug:

I did not fold towels and washcloths. Or much of anything. You have to do what you have to for now. I learned to wear blinders trough my home. It was sad... Some areas still are. I'm going to get to do it, some day.

I'm on my iPad. Don't know how to grab links for you.

Here's some things that helped fascia...

Miracle Ball set. Two soft balls. Google these if you can. Like $18.

Kinesio tape

Theracane

CoolComfort wrist splints with thumb spicas helped tremendously.

Speaker phone or a headset is a must.

Stretches or some kind. Figure out what you need/helps ad do it.

Muscle relaxers help more than pain relievers. It can also cause constipation. Activia, bananas, old grapes :cool: helps that.

ASTM is the closest form of tortune k own to modern mankind. PT... They slap some coca butter cream on you and scrape you sorest spots like a hog. It will break up fascia and cause bruising but is not good if you have a possible overlay of fibromyalgia, or other neuropathic problems.

LED/infrared light therapy pads helped me more than any one thing.

So many things...

Oh... I used 3 inch balloons for my armpits -- wow!!! what a relief that was. They are portable. Very handy to help around for propping. 5 inch for neck. Big balloons for back. Back pain is miserable pain.
Hope you're finding relief.

Just read your bio.

Winged scapula... Know all about that. I posted pictures of kinesio tape on my bra line. You would have to have somebody put it on your scapulas, but it's wonderful relief for winged xpscapulas.

BTW, what is eds???

Oh... Read your other thread.

Boy, when it rains it pours...

Praying you find some peace.

Yeah winged scapulas are awful!!!!! I've spent the last year researching them

Thank you. For the tips. I wish I could give up caffeine. I have wound up doing some Variation of all of a lot of them but not infared pads. I will need to look into those. I take hot baths every day. Touchscreens are a godsend And voice dictation

I am proud to say now i believe i can at least intermittently release my pec minor!! So it is not the cause of my numbness. I really think people should try to do this themselves every day and not pay a therapist $$$ It's not a difficult muscle to find.

There isn't a trick to keeping your palms up while sleeping is there? Do you mean sleeping on your back thanks

Well, at this point in my darkness, I was sleeping/resting in nests... :p:D:eek:

And yes, on my back, propped up at a 45degree angle. I used euro pillows, a king size pillows longways down my spine, with soft, fluffy pillows to rest my arms in, oversized tennis balls in my low back.

I slept in wrist splints with thumb spicas. It was pretty easy to lay with palms up. I have soft elbow splints too. You should avoid bending elbows too. Get the best optimal flow, without impingement. I really wasn't getting much sleep back in those days. 2 to 3 to 4 at the most. I have been taking Tylenol pm to help get a couple more minutes/ hours of sleep. It has helped, too.


This was for about eight years. I had several nests throughout the house. Before I found the lights. They made a difference. It took awhile, too.

Google Skin Solutions, in Vancouver, Washington. Edna Ness is the sales rep. I have talked to her, by phone. She is a very sweet person. I hope to meet her some day. Tell her Tammy, from Kentucky, gave you her info. The Pain Buster is the best. I understand they have made them new and improved. They're expensive. I just know these worked or me. There are other brands advertised. I can't speak for them. I did want to start a business with them but nobody in the hills will pay that price. Wore one out. Still got a pain buster, and one for spare parts. :winky:

We have a large pad and a more recent model. Wish I knew how to copy and paste with iPad.

Did you look up kinesio tape. It's great for winged scapulas. I could mail you a couple of pieces if you want to try it on your winged scapulas. Like I said, someone would have to put it on you. I wore the tape for three weeks at a time. Shower, used a hair dryer on low setting, on a stand to gently dry tape. Would hold down tape, or put back in place. Also would cut frayed tape to make it look better. I had a lot of tape on my upper body. I would cut tape special ways, to use on my arms, thumbs, shoulders, chest, even breasts. I had very painful points on the inside of my arm, in the belly of my bicep, and a very painful point directly across, on the lateral side of my breasts. Very tender and painful points. Don't know if I described that very well, but I could draw it, snap a pic if you need more.

I hope you are finding positive t hings to help you. You need to keep a journal so you know when you start things. Doing too many things at once could be a problem when you need to tweak something. I graded things as positive or negative. It wasn't hard to figure it out.

Hang in here... It won't always be this way.

thank you! i actualyl have the k tape, i wore it too much and started breaking out but it's good stuff. i wore it when my levators were spasming really bad and instant relief. i need some right now, my right arm is dead

okay, next goal is getting sleeping position better. i might try tylenol pm with melatonin.