Hip Pain
 

Hi. I was a member of the old forum, but have not posted in a couple of years. I've had arm and shoulder problems that were eventually diagnosed as TOS for about 10 years.
My Question: I have occasional hip pain which causes a limp on the same side as my TOS. Does anyone else have this and can it be a part of TOS, or is it unrelated?

Thanks!

hip pain has nothing to do with TOS. It can be bursitis. Have it checked out by a doc. I have it too and it goes away or lessons with advil.

If your body is out of alignment from whatever reason- be it falls, MVA, sport injury, even being born can cause it.

It can also be more noticeable after having TOS for awhile due to possible guarding or posture changes due to pain.
Sometimes the change is very slight and as we age we get stiffer and our body is less fluid so things are more noticeable.

After reading some chiro sites about the atlas/axis {C1/C2} I realized that I have been out of alignment for 30+ yrs or maybe from birth- but who knows for sure.
I am pretty sure my shoulders were level and even until after my shoulder/neck "strains"- which I think was a precursor to TOS.
I had already had bilateral RSI a year before the shoulder strains started.
And I got RSI again as soon as they returned me to full work after PT for the shoulders.
I tend to get more of a sacroiliac pain inside low back/hip area.

A few here do get sciatic pain also.

So your pain is in the actual hip joint area?
Front, back, side of hip or deep inside?
Either way if it is very bothersome I'd have it looked at- just to be sure it's not something else.

DiMarie has some diagrams/photos/sketches posted in the useful links-
Heres the whole thread - in the first post is some good chiro links too- that can explain it in more detail.
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?t=84

Pain
 

Melissa,

A patient can relate anything they want to a condition they have or a disease they have, but that doesn't mean that's why they have it. If a patient starts talking about a toothache causing toe pain, well.....you can see how that may look to the doctor.

In order to have a reliable patient relationship with your doctor just go to see them, say you have hip pain and let them decide where and how it came along. Let them know when it started and how, if doing something makes it worse. That helps a lot in diagnosing a medical problem. Most of the time if it is something simple, an steroid injection helps, or an anti inflammatory type med helps along with some PT. If it is something like a slipped disc or any type of disc issues in the back that's more of a serious condition.

That can also cause a limp and pain in the hip area. Docs can see that on an X-ray and MRI.

But relating everything one has to something like TOS can cause a person to not look further at another possible cause of a pain or whatever when it has nothing to do with TOS.

Ask your doc, they are the ones that can let you know what it's from. We can't. Hope you find some answers, take it from me, hip pain is no fun but with the correct DX you can find relief.

When my back gets totally cramped up, the first thing the PT always ends up doing is straightening my hips.

When your hips (or any other part of your core) are ou tof alignmnet, your body has to compensate by holding different muscles tight. THose with TOS often already have either muscles that are way too tight up top, or way too weak (from not being able to use them) to help us compensate for any misalingment.

Your body IS a whole system. When one nerve is stuck is can easily affect how much your other nerves can glide around. They are all supposed to be able to move freely. when you stretch your arm or your leg and feel pain, if moving your head can change the amount of pain in the stretch, many cliniicans and PT's attribute the pain to nerves being stuck...not tight muscles. I had read about the slump test on my own, and one day (i didn't talk to her about it) my PT did it during a session. She said it clearly showed that the nerve compression in my upper body was contributing to pain in my legs. She now has me doing nerve glides with my feet :)

So whoever can argue that they aren't related, it may not be TOS directly that causes my leg pain, however, it certainly is related. Any PT or doctor who treats TOS like all it affects is the neck and shoulder is not going to get you better, either. Your whole body has to be aligned to have good posture, and bad posture is what got most of us here...at least to some extent. That is certainly why Dr Sanders and others sends people to feldenkrais practitioners.

Try the slump test and decide for yourself if nerve compression is contributing to your hip pain....

best,
Johanna

*including the new link for slump test site*
http://www.spinalphysio.net/

yikers!
Just doing that test myself- I could feel a real difference just from having my head up or bent down! It really pulled in the hamstring area, almost zingers, would be zingers if someone was putting pressure down on my head.
http://www.innerbody.com/image/musbov.html

that whole site is kind of fun- not fully detailed though
but good for quick overviews
http://www.innerbody.com/htm/body.html

Thanks
 

Thanks Johanna for the great info, you have an attune PT for sure.

I saw this statement on the site your refer and how fitting...how many times have we had symptoms treate locally with blinders on instead of looking at the general picture.

TOS mimics many things, and other thing mimic TOS, nothing should be ruled out or in to a local area with thinking about what is contributing.
WHen I was told degerneative in th ehip the doc's stop thre, but my ortho said it is all related and all posture, where the stress effects and the heavy wear and tear.

With the slump I do a side half roll over to stretch, trying to loosen. But I have the advantage to use the hotub for loosening things up. I can do lots of range when the hot tub is there.
Dianne

This was from the site your refered.
The Moral to the Story?
With musculoskeletal disorders, the human body has a habit of making life miserable for us, as Clinicians, treating these conditions. What we need is a "tool box" filled with different tools, able to differentiate between a multitude of conditions. The Slump Test gives us an avenue by which to apply our clinical reasoning skills, to be able to differentiate between symptoms of local origin and those of symptoms arising from the nervous system. We all have to take our "blinkers" off and use a little lateral thinking to be able to see the big picture - our patients will be happier paying their money!

Di- the other thing my PT says that I think really really applies to TOS is "the body will always cheat" meaning, if something hurts, or is stretched too far or cramped or whatever, we'll compensate with other muscles to do things in a way we weren't meant to. With me, she started with the extremities and worked inwards to the neck. She still goes back out to the extremities whe something is out of whack, and puts requests in fo rthe hellerworker when she finds something too tight to deal with easily.

of course, i am still going for surgery....but they have helped me immensely.

Hot tub= fantastic. THe people at my club sometimes look at me funny, but i do that slump test stretch all the time in the hot tub. It is so much easier there. I also usually visit the sauna or the tub before i work out just to get me a little more limber.

knowledge is power. learn as much as you can :)

Johanna

My pain started on upper right, moved to neck, then upper left, then lower left leg. Now I've got total complete paralysys of arms to elbows, and left left, for about 4 hours a day, once a week, which then slowly fades out. It has occurred at the docs' offices. The top neuros concluded it IS the result of TOS nerve damage. Only Dr. Annest and another UCLA fellow disagreed. But the others - one of which is world renown, have absolutely no doubt and my write about it later.

weak and dead arms...
 

I think I read somewhere Dr Togut calls the weak and dead arms we get as

POWER FAILURE!!!!

I think this is a great description to help people understand what is happening in my arms

Those injured nerves just can't get the signals to the muscles the way they used to.
Before my surgery I would get the "dead arms" like I had a stroke.
I wasn't able to move the arm at all.

When I got the POWER FAILURE if I was able to think straight I would go straight to the physical therapist. and she would always find a lot of "knots" in my arm all the way up my arm, that she would work on. In time I learned to do it myself. When I was in acute power failure I would always need the help of the physical therapist.

Thankfully, since my surgery I have not had "POWER FAILURE" in my arms.

When I had the dead arms I would always "lose my brain' . I would get sort of hysterical. I have always wondered if there was a chemical connection when my arm would die, my brain kind of got wierd also.

Usually I could tie the dead arm to overuse of my arm. When I say that it means that I did 4 repetions instead of 3 my arms were that touchy.

Surgery did help me with the power failure and I can wash my hair in the shower when before I had to lay down in the tub to wash my hair.

I wonder
 

Any other ideas?
 

Thanks for the responses about hip pain. I agree that when one part of the body is in chronic pain, other muscles and parts of the body can be affected while "taking up the slack." If feel like my hip problems only occur when worsening pain has affected my posture or further limited the amount I can use my arms, thus other parts of the body start to suffer.

I wasn't trying to self diagnose or wishing to make my own conclusions about TOS to a doctor. I would not do that, I basically just wanted to be able to gather some thoughts about it so I could explain a little better when students or other teachers ask about my occasional limp.

Other ideas for better explaining TOS in brief to K-8 students would also be welcome. I don't make a big deal out of it, but many times they ask "What happened?" when I can't lift my arm up or when I sometimes wear an arm brace. I have a hard time giving them a quick answer that they can understand. Neurological disorder just doesn't do it :-)

If I need to give a simple & quick explanation - I just say I have shoulder & arm problems.
That should work fine for most students, parents and most people in general.

Hi Melissa,
To adults, I explained it by saying how some people get carpal tunnel in their hands; this is like carpal tunnel in the upper body down the arms to the hands.
Or Similar to having carpal tunnel from the hands up the arms to neck and shoulders.

Instead of nerves compressed in the wrist, they are compressed when the come off the spine.
The nerves are a songle cell traveling all the way to the finger tips. Everywhere there is a hinge along the way it compresses the sick nerve and limits movement and causes pain, and can affect posture from hunching and protecting the hurting nerves.

With kids, like Jo, just bad back and arm problems. I hope you find something that helps,

When I limp I blame it on the bum knee.
Dianne

I would just add...that when people ask if I have carpal tunnel I always start with "i wish" and follow with "it's like carpal tunnel, ulnar tunnel, and shoulder problems all in one" and if I am going on a little further...I add "in carpal tunnel surgery they cut a ligament in your wrist, for TOS they remove two neck muscles and your first rib"

Now, I am often talking to people I work with at a very ergonomically aware company....but this usually goes over quite well and gets the appropriate sympathy.

:)

Johanna

bumping for momz...hope something might be helpful.

cheers everyone.

Hey Melissa....hope all is well with you.I too have hip pain.I had surgery for my TOS and now my hip on same side pains quite a bit.Not sure if coincidental .
Take Care!!
Linda....Ontario Canada