Clonazepam for REM sleep disorder/seizures
 

Hello Everyone,
Hope you are all having a good day. I have been taking 1.0 mg of clonazepam a night for REM sleep behavior disorder and nocturnal frontal lobe epilepsy for two months now. It has been giving me more dreams/bad dreams and feel like I am getting no sleep. Do you think I should try to go down to .5 mg of clonazepam and see if that helps? Or should I try lorazepam? I have taken a few lorazepam in the past and it worked great for good sleep with no dreams. I need sleep bad without these dreams. What do you all recommend?
Thanks so much for any suggestions,
Brain

call your doctor and tell them what is going on get permission to take the ativan and get a script then. TEll them that it works for you they will want to help you.
bizi

Yes, the doctor needs to know that the other is causing night dreams.

And things, and that yo:grouphug: want to try the two together to see if it works.

Donna:grouphug::hug:

I want off of the clonazepam and want to be taking no benzo's. they are making me very depressed and I am not getting any sleep. I am just thinking what you have all said that it is very dangerous to cold turkey or that is what I would do. Just thinking of a good tapering off plan may be- go to .5 for two weeks, that is half the dose I have been taking for 2 months and then go to lorazepam (you guys said this is half as strong as the clonazepam) if needed. I will call my doctor on Monday and ask him. But I have to get off this clonazepam. I hate it. It is having a very bad reaction on me. I don't want to be on lorazepam either. I just thought if the withdrawl was too bad after stopping the .5 clonazepam that I could take a little half of one of those if needed for a few days. I do not want any benzo's. You see this is why I am not on any anti-depressants is because they have a similar bad effect on me. I have tried them all.
Brain

Dear Brain

It is not a good idea to self-medicate.
Let a psychiatrist or neurologist help you decide what medications to take and what to stop taking.
There are better meds for sleep than Klonopin. It depends on what else the MD has prescribed.

M

Mari,
Yes. You are very right. The clonazepam is prescribed by my doctor. It is just no good for me so I need to get off it. I have only been taking it for two months. Do you think it will be that bad to come off of? I will call him Monday and see what he says but for tonight I am going to half my dose. I was planning on asking him about the lorazepam for tapering if needed. I am not just gonna do it myself don't worry. Good advise though as always. Thanks.
Brain

Brain,

I think you should wait until Monday.

Lorazapam is a short acting medication similar to Xanax in its half life.

Here is what Waves posted a few days ago:
Each benzo has a different mix of properties. They do not exactly substitute for each other.

M

Oh me oh my...
 

Dear Brain :Heart:

Please, Please, I beseech you NOT to alter your Klonopin dosage without complete endorsement, guidance and supervision of your prescribing physician.

Please realize, even if we were doctors, it would be a bad idea to do this on our own, because often we have a hard time self-evaluating as there can be psychological effects as well.

As to the nitty gritty questions you are asking. Yes, lorazepam is half as potent than Klonopin. Does that make it weak? No! Easy to taper? No! Lorazepam has a much shorter half-life (it leaves your system much faster) than does Klonopin. Despite the slight potency difference, Klonopin is perhaps less difficult to taper for those taking it for anxiety.

I chose my words carefully there. I did not say "easier" because that would imply one was easy and the other more so. Neither one easy to taper. Both are difficult, because both are high potency drugs. I said "perhaps... for those taking it for anxiety" because at equivalent dosages, clonazepam and lorazepam are close in anxiolytic effect. However, if a patient takes clonazepam for prophylactic treatment of szs it is a different tune: lorazepam is also effective for szs, and in fact is given to halt status, but clonazepam (Klonopin) has strong anticonvulsant activity and is the preferred drug for prophylaxis because its long half-life offers greater stability.

--------------------------

Basic Benzo Discontinuation Facts:

• ALL benzos are addictive. Some are more addictive than others.
  
  
• ALL benzos must be tapered in order to achieve discontinuation with a minimum of side effects.
  
  
• Tapering can still produce withdrawal symptoms. See:
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodi...rawal_syndrome
  
  
• Excessively rapid tapering can produce a protracted withdrawal syndrome. See:
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodi...rawal_syndrome
  
  Quote:

  Protracted withdrawal symptoms refers to symptoms persisting for months or even years.

  This is not something you want to mess with!

Sometimes d/c'ing from an addictive benzo requires a two step process:

1. gradual switch from original benzo to a long-acting, low-potency benzo such as Valium or even Librium
   
   
2. gradual taper of the dosage of the long-acting, low-potency benzo.

I do not know if your neuro will wish to do that, or whether he will even wish to withdraw you from Klonopin - you'd need something else to cover szs but that would not cover withdrawal sx, and it would not change one iota in terms of needing to taper the Klonopin. If you feel strongly about not taking a benzo, express this to your doc, and discuss your reasons why with him. It might not be too long as you've only taken the drug two months, but please do be patient with the process, and give it the time your doc deems necessary.

--------------------------

A lot of people take benzo's and stay on them for years. May I ask why you are suddenly hellbent on coming off Klonopin? I am curious because, just before your recent neuro appointment, you were wanting to increase the drug to 2.0mg, or at least 1.5mg? Of course, you need not answer - just my curiosity. Whatever you choose to do, please be very, very careful, and do not make a move without your doctor on board, please. :o: heartthrob:

Many hugs and good thoughts to you :hug: :hug: :hug:

~ waves ~

Waves,
Ok. I will wait until Monday and call him. I am hellbent on getting off them because for the last week or so I have been having horrible nightmares and have been feeling way depressed. Like crying all the time. Cannot be left alone. I think this is due to the clonazepam. Although it has been a bad week with my dad it has been bad before that and I was coping way better. I also have a stomach ache and diarrhea.
The nightmare I had all night last night was so so so bad. I need sleep. This medication is supposed to stop the dreams and the seizures and instead is making the dreams worse.
I wanted to up it because I do like the relaxing effect it has when really stressed but I do not think it is mixing well with my other meds.
I hear what your saying.
Thanks,
Brain

Dear Brain, :hug: :hug: :hug:

I am sorry about the nightmares.

Mari

Might not be the drug, perse, might be d/t the fact you took extra stuff and then stopped the extra suddenly. Seems a little odd that it would affect you so quickly, but it might, since you had already acquired enough tolerance that it lost daytime efficacy. Your doc will be able to advise on this.

again... this is an interpretation of the facts. you may be correct, but there are other possiblities. furthermore, the impact of the week's psychological factors and phsyical illness are not to be undermined.
ok good. i want you to be safe, basically. sending more hugs your way. :hug::hug::hug:
i really hope things settle down for you soon.

~ waves ~

Thank you guys. Thanks waves. Thanks Mari. Yes, yes you are right. Could be I jacked myself up by taking those extra. Could be the stress of the week really has got to me after all it has been really brutal. I do not want to have more seizures. I will be good and not self medicate anymore. Learning lesson.
Will let you know what doctor says. Will not change until I talk to him. Praying I don't have nightmares tonight. They are so much different than normal dreams with this REM sleep disorder it is so real, so vivid, you can feel everything, it is just like it is real. You wake up really sweating and crying.
How are you all doing? Please tell me when I talk to you in these threads because I cannot read through everyone's to see what is going on. It is too hard on my post concussive syndrome but want to know what is up with everybody.
Sending hugs back to you all :hug::hug::hug::hug::hug::hug:
Much love too,
Brain

Hi Brain

I am happy to report that things seem to be calming down... at least, that is the "report du jour" based on today's goings on for me :)

basically chilled today, but woke up early so i'm pretty tired.

I hope you sleep sounder tonight with no yucky nightmares!!!!

:hug::hug::hug:

~ waves ~

Hi, Brain, :heartthrob: :heartthrob: :heartthrob:

Today feels crummy. I cannot account for some days being bad, some merely crummy, and some good. At least I feel calm (not agitated) and that might be because I stayed inside and did not have to make a run for groceries or to fill up the gas tank (Did that on Friday when I got out of work a little early).

I did a little on the work project -- still not finished. I might wait to email that Monday morning. (I do not like to email people in the middle of the night because I do not want them to know that I keep strange sleep hours.)
It is rather late here but I might do 20 mins of yoga and that could help mood (but whether it helps mood or not I know I need to do it tonight)
My clothes are mostly set for work tomorrow so next I need to wash my hair and pack my lunch.

My big achievement of the day: I filled in my pill minder for the week!! :Dancing-Chilli:
I feel good about that.

I hope that you are o.k. tonight and with the MD appt tomorrow.

Mari

I am glad that you filled you pill box for the week! good job!
bizi

pillminder packing
 

Good for you Mari ... and that reminds me... I have to fill mine, there is only one dose left!

................. Ack! I just did that and ... :yikes:

Heck! The added Zyprexa screwed me up! 'Stupid stuff would not fit in my regular pillminder, so I was keeping the Zyprexa and the pills for my knee into a second pillminder. :( When I stopped taking Zyprexa, I forgot to move the other pills into my original pillminder. No wonder it has seemed like I've been taking "too few pills" the past few nights.

:Doh: :Sigh:

I shoulda left the knee pills where they were to start with. I was so hyper-aware of the Zyprexa I would not have forgotten that. Now, I have missed 3 days of KNEE pills. It's not a huge deal like the psych meds, but I do want my knee to heal up. :(

Oh well. It is straighted out now. Everything is all packed in one 'minder, through next Saturday.

~ waves ~

Dear Brain

too hope you are getting some good sleep about now. (I say about now thinking it is 4 or 5 am your time. ;):Heart:

~ waves ~

Waves,
:Grin-Nod: :Grin-Nod: :Grin-Nod:
I think I would like my own minder. Someone gentle and barely noticeable but present nonetheless who could keep track of me. :)
'Could really benefit from that. ;)

Mari

Yeah! No doubt!

Where do we sign up for that???? :cool::D:p

Hi sweeties,
I want and need a minder too. A really good looking one would be great! :D
Good job everyone on getting the pill reminders all figured out! That is a big job I know. We do it for my dads medication too. I am gonna need one soon if I keep getting put on more meds.
So the doctor does not want me to stop taking the clonazepam and added 10mg of ambian a night. Hopefully that will control the seizures and get rid of the nightmares. Will let you know tomorrow how tonight goes.
Mari sorry you had a bad day/night. I hope you are feeling better today.
Waves, glad you are holding steady.
Sending all of you many hugs :hug::hug::hug::hug::hug:
Love,
Brain

Hi, Brain,

Your doctor is taking care of you. That is comforting.
The ambien decision might be good. I believe it will help you.

Mari

10mg is a high dose to start. and shorter acting less of a hang over effect I think but may not carry over until the morning. the 6mg or 12mg are long acting.
just thought I would mention this you have more options to your avail.
bizi

I'm personally relieved the doc is adding the ambien instead of letting you go down on the meds.

Because that particular medication is used for seizures. And I'd hate for you to start having more because you went down.
Donna:grouphug::hug:

Dear Brain,

What time do you take your night medications and what time do you usually wake up in the morning?

Mari

Good Job and Well Wishes
 

HI Brain,

Great job calling your doc and good luck with the Ambien. Hopefully you'll be sleeping like a baby as of tonight. :)

As to the med addition, I agree with Donna 100%.

Clonazepam has strong antiepileptic properties - decreasing that would be complicated to say the least. Often one gets used to the (less) sedating effects of clonazepam fairly quickly. I am saying that it makes sense you might be having problems with REM but not with szs. (Btw, where I am living, clonazepam is used exclusively as a seizure medication!)

Hopefully the Ambien will take out the REM sleep issues. When I was taking it I was given 10 mg. I had that when I was inpatient as well, and ALL the people taking it were started at 10 mg. Later I moved up to 20 mg. Now they are making smaller doses of this medication with an in a special formula for women, but the indication is for insomnia. You are taking it for REM sleep disorder and probably need the full 10 mg. Do you normally sleep a full 7-8 hours, (assuming no nightmares)?

Your doctor is a neuro. He knows about the brain and how meds work inside it, better than any other doctor. Trust him and keep in touch with him. Call his office if you should have any other issue, just like you did now with nightmare problem. He was responsive which shows he is taking good care of you. :)

:grouphug:

~ waves ~

Hi everyone,
Well, it is 4:51 in the morning and I have been awake since 3:00 but that is only because I forgot to take my MS Contin at 6:00 last night so I woke up because of withdrawl and pain. The ambian actually worked great. I would still be out cold if not for forgetting my night pain med. I was having black totally great sleep.
I took the clonazepam in the late afternoon yesterday and then took the ambian at 6:00. I felt like I could lie down and meditate about 7:00. Listened to some music and meditated and fell asleep in about half hour. That is a miracle for me because usually I try to get to sleep for hours. So I was sleeping great and would still be asleep but got woke up from pain because of forgetting my MS Contin. That clonazepam and ambian is really strong for me to forget to take my pain pill. I can usually feel when it wears off but did not notice it until in total problem. So the report is that I think this is going to work good as long as I take all my meds. I know it is a little early to take sleeping meds at 6:00 but I wake up so damn early usually that 6:00 is like I am tired because I have been up since 4:00 am. Ya know?
Hope everybody is doing good today.
Brain :hug::hug::hug:

Hi waves
 

Hi waves,
I see your awake too. Maybe it is later where you live. If not, what you doing up? Have a hard time sleeping too?
Love,
Brain :hug:

Hi Brain!
 

Hi there Brain!

I am currently 7 hours ahead of you - it is 1:48 pm here right now. I've just had lunch! :) I am basically just sitting around catching up with a little correspondence. (Alas, there is a lot I have to catch up with... I am perpetually in catch-up mode... I was in ketchup mode today too... had a hotdog smothered in it! :p:D)

Our normal time difference is 8 hours. When I Spring Forward, which is done a few weeks later here than in the US - we will be 8 hours apart again - with me being further on in the day night.

That said, I am a night owl by tendency, even though lately I've been waking up early morning and sleeping at night... actually it has changed a few times so I can only safely say my sleeping/waking hours are unpredictable at the moment.

I was really happy to hear (well apart from the pain pill forgetting thing OWWWIIEEEEE) that the Ambien experience is working for you!
:yahoo::Dancing-Chilli:

Have yourself a beautiful day Brain! :)

:hug::hug::hug:

~ waves ~

I'm also glad to hear the ambien is going to work.

I think the taking the pain meds might even change time wise. If you
should start wanting to stay up later.

Good job Brain. I think you can get this in line soon.

Donna:grouphug::hug:

great news about you sleeping, sorry about the pain...not good.sounds like the ambien is working for you. Happy about that!
bizi

Good News
 

Happy to report I slept like a baby. I slept for 13 hours. Wow, I was tired.
Ambian is working great. No dreams. No nightmares. Yeah!
Brain :grouphug:

yeah!
 

I am happy for you, Brain! :):)

:yahoo: :Dancing-Chilli: :yahoo:

that is wonderful!!!!!! bizi

Brain,

Are you still taking the Ambien and is it helping? :) :) :hug:


I have not refilled my pill minder. I could not concentrate all day Saturday so I took meds out that matched the ones in the square/day that was still remaining (I do mine looking for the visual pattern -- it is all messed up really).
Maybe Sunday I can make the pill minder a goal.


Mari

Thanks Mari
 

Hi Mari,
Yes, I am still taking the Ambian and it is helping. Had a hard weekend so it threw me off my schedule. Had a seizure last night but it was not a bad one. Had a lot of stress happen this weekend. Especially on Saturday night. Hoping to have a calmer week and get back on track.
Hope you do make it a goal to get your pill reminder done today. Please take care of yourself.
Brain :hug:

Please both of you do your pill minders.

I am impressd with the way the ambien has worked.

And I hope for a less stressful week for you Brain. And for all off us.

Also Thanks for reminding me to go do Derrick's pill minder.

We got to tired at the time it was to do last night. SO I think
I'll do it early today.
Donna:hug::grouphug:

Hi, Brain,

'Sorry about the seizure.
That's good that Ambien is helping.

Mari