alcohol discussion
 

I am starting a new thread to discuss alcohol issues. I can't easily find my last thread about my history so thought I would start a new one, open to all for use of course.

Last year I broke down and sobbed to my pdoc about how much weight I had gained because of all of the drinking that I had been doing. She was horrified and told me to join AA and get a sponsor. She did not quite threaten me with discontinuing her care but I felt that she did.
This was the last time that I got manic and bought that car on a whim and then pleaded with them the next day to take it back...which they did fortunately. That was the only thing that triggered my mania was the drinking. It scared me straight. I threw out a 1.75 liter of gin and drank 8 beers and then did not drink for 3 months when I saw her again. I was very proud of myself and had lost weight like 12 pounds not really trying really.
I started seeing a new therapist who is a recovering alcoholic of 20 years and someone who has an eating disorder, and I like her.
I saw her a few times and then missed an appointment and did not make another appointment, I told her that I would call her after the holidays.
WEll indeed did I start drinking again and in great quantities. I was drinking daily.....not during the day only at night after work. Fast forward past jeffs injury past the cruise to about 2 weeks ago. I called up my tdoc(I had not seen her in months) and saw her the week before I was to see my pdoc. I told her I did not know what I was going to say to her. The last tuesday before seeing my pdoc I felt so guilty about all of the drinking I went to an AA meeting and listened and they made me talk...I told the that I did not think that i was an alcoholic that I had issues though. They were very nice and wanted to offer help. They gave me the big book for AA's and I got out of there as fast as I could. I did not realize how religious it was.
This was last week. I did not drink the night before seeing my pdoc. So I could honestly say that I had not been drinking daily. So when I went to see her last thursday I was trying to act all happy and in a good way, I lied a lot to her. I told her that I had started a new diet and lost a couple of pounds. She specifically asked about my drinking. I told her that I drank over the holidays and the cruise, she said how much. I said 2 which is not the truth at all. I manipulated the conversation as much as I could...convincing her that I had stopped again.
I had not stopped at all.
The beers that I drink are blueberry, sounds harmless. In fact they are potent. 8% alcohol in one beer so having a beer is like having 2.
I was starting to guzzle my beers quickly. I would have 2-3 every night equals 4-6 beers every night.. My tolerance was way high.
Sunday we went to brunch and I had 2 bloody mary's there it was st pattys day. I drank a couple of beers that evening then at 9 said I wanted to go out so we went out and had an irish car bomb which is half a guiness beer and a shot of whiskey with kahlua that you drop into the glass and then drink it all down.. It was very good! I then proceed to have 3 more bloody marys they were on sale. and then another bomber before we went home. Jeff did not have as much to drink as I did. I drank a half gallon of water before going to bed. That was a lot to drink!
Yesterday jeff had a rehearsal so we did dinner separately. I worked late and at 7:30 I ended up going to the pub down the street from our house.
I drank 4 gin martinis(like 8 shots) and a light beer, it was a 2 for 1 happy hour...I drank all of that in a short amount of time.
I ate a chef salad and at the last minute ordered a basket of fries, which were delicious! I came home and drank another half gallon of water.
I woke up fine today.
Tonight I talked myself into not buying any more beer...I went back to the AA meeting place and gave them back their book.
I drank 2 non alcoholic beers tonight....Will see if I can not drink. Today is almost done so that is one day. I have done this before I can do it again.
I need to lose all of this weight that I regained and then some.
I can't seem to drink in moderation like other people.
This writing sounds pretty hypo to me and probably to you too.
I see my tdoc in 2 days.
Thank you for your support.
bizi

Hugs
 

Dear Bizi,

Lots and lots of hugs.
Give yourself some hugs. You are a good person and you have love in your live.

I am glad you feel comfortable talking to us.
I wish that you were more comfortable talking to your people in real life.

Your tdoc can help you. Schedule more frequent appointments with her.

Try a different AA group that is less religious. There are meetings all over town and you can find one that works for you --- just like finding our pdocs, you need the right fit.

Does going to the gym help you? Some people drink less when they work out. . . . . just asking.

Mari

I understand. I could not drink in moderation. I use to drink every night. I was always plastered at parties,because I drank more then other people.

I was looking for relief. I found some relief when I started drinking. After ten years it turned into a roller coaster ride. I began having alcohol related problems.

I had a high tolerance to alcohol,and probably drank more than anyone on the forum.:eek: Alcoholism almost killed my dad. The TRAIT IS DEFINITELY INHERITED!!! Both sides of my family have it.

I haven't drank any alcoholic beverages in over twenty years. Situations happened where I really had to stop. It was also going to my liver. BF:grouphug::hug::grouphug:

Self-observation and Abuse Checklist
 

Dear Bizi,

Right now I am drinking too - but not as much, and not daily.

However I have been where you describe with alcohol.

I can do alcohol in moderation, but I have to be vigilant. If I see even the tendency or desire to drink more than what is moderate, I must step back immediately. If I end up being immoderate - drinking daily, then I have to observe a period of abstinence. That is how I manage moderation. But that is me.

For me, it means being watchful of2 things:

-- how much/often I drink
and
-- why I am drinking

Often the two are related, but I have to be honest with myself. If I'm having a nice dinner and I want some wine to complement the meal, generally a glass will do. I sip it. Sometimes I'll have another half glass but that's about it. If it's cocktails, drinking in front of the tv, having beer at the bar that's recreational - and it's very easy for that to get out of hand (more than one beer).

I've noticed one crosses boundaries with abuse (any substance applies)... you've crossed some of these, not others but each boundary cross paves the road to the next... i saw them only in retrospect... and when i took a test, some were slapped in my face... here are those i can think of off-hand:

-- subtle hiding behavior (in your case, with Jeff)
-- overt lying to avoid judgement (pdoc)
-- worrying about one's drinking patterns
-- feeling guilt or remorse after a drinking
-- having the sensation one is overdrinking yet feeling unable to stop (as if dragged by a strong current)
-- drinking to self-medicate (social anxiety, agitation, mania)
-- drinking as an escape (worries, depression)
-- drinking alone
-- craving at a certain hour of the day
-- neglecting self-care or family care in times of drinking
-- drinking earlier and earlier (before 6, then 5, then 3, then at lunch.. etc)
-- driving (or engaging in similarly inappropriate activities) under the influence
-- trouble sleeping due to drinking
-- physical problems (eg reflux, indigestion, diahrrea) due to drinking
-- passing out from drinking
-- next day tremor
-- socializing with people one would not normally socialize with while drinking
-- memory black-outs (amnesia)
-- going to work under the influence/intoxicated
-- feeling "ok" ONLY when inebriated or intoxicated
-- drinking 24/7 (basically first thing in the morning)
-- drinking in place of eating ("drinking one's dinner" (or lunch))

'Don't know if that helps. I hope maybe it can be useful for self-observance - as a periodic checklist. You can adapt it to your own needs.

I wish you well in this endeavor, Bizi. You are taking steps in the right direction. We will cheer you on. Take heart and keep on. You will get there. ;):)

((( :circlelove: HUGS :circlelove: )))

AA / 12-step programs
 

Dear Bizi

An AA person I met on the forums (not here) once told me that the "higher power" in AA need not be a deity. She said it could be anything one chose - her example was, literally, "a doorknob." Well, I confess I could not imagine putting myself in the hands of "a doorknob," so that did not illustrate her point very well to me. I know what you mean about the program being very religious.

However, I do believe the general concepts of AA's and similar 12-sstep programs could be adapted to your own belief system. The role of the "higher power" in AA is to help a person come to the realization they DO NOT control everything, and CANNOT EXPECT to control everything. Example: can you control the rain? No. If you are a diabetic, can you control your sugar level with your mind? ... Maybe if you're a Tibetan Monk, but otherwise, good luck! If you are an alcoholic, by genetics, culture or both, it's bigger than your willpower. All they are trying to say is look, willpower alone is not going to cut it. Willpower has its place and by all means use it all you can, but don't beat yourself up for something that is bigger than your willpower.

However, I do agree it is hard for an atheist or agnostic person (or even perhaps a person not of JudeoChristian beliefs) to relate when the 12 steps are explicitly written in terms of "God."

Another thing, I must say, I am quite dismayed that they pushed you into talking your first time there. :mad::( I thought it was ok to just go and listen and could talk when ready. Inviting someone to talk is one thing but they should take no for an answer! That seems so awkward! If that happened to me, I would never want to go back!!! :( I am thinking you could find another support group perhaps that has a different dynamic. Maybe your T knows of one that you could relate to better.

FWIW, that forum person I mentioned before offered to mail me "the big book" - insisted a few times - and I persistently declined. Her final words to me were - get this - that I'm "the type of person who would bite off the hand that would feed me." Oh my! How supportive. :rolleyes: But, I digress (just sharing my own very limited, but alas unpleasant encounter with AA). ;):o

(((hugs)))

~ waves ~

i hate to write this but it sounds like you are acting out. are you angry at something in your life. you have been able to give up drinking before quite easily so it is hard for me to think of you as an alcoholic. My father was an alcoholic most of his life and he couldn't do that. I know you have a hard time asserting yourself and i think you have often written that you have social anxiety.
We love you
bobby

good point Bobby
 

since Bobby hates writing that can I go out further on the limb she sprouted and suggest what if there is suppressed anger(resentment) at having to take on so much with Jeff's injury? Values and social expectations would never allow you to express that anger outwardly - maybe something you could hammer out with your therapist... i recall only once did you express resentment - after the cruise when it all hit you "again" after a period of relief from the burdens :o

not blaming or judging (quite the contrary i could totally relate)

it would seem normal to me... maybe i have said that before.

Still i think alcohol is a weakness for you Bizi but one that emerges when you have other stressors.

also may I say: i don't get manic because i drink: i drink when I am manic. but i also drink for other reasons. not saying it's the same for you. but i am questioning it. because you dont' sound manic - you just sound really preoccupied about the drinking - and that is a good thing as long as it motivates you and does not perpetuate the problem.

~ waves ~ who has been talking too much on this topic i should shut up i s'pose.

Thank you for your support and observations all of you.
I have to go to work but wanted to type just a bit this morning in response.
I started drinking again right after my visit with my pdoc right after thanksgiving. I had given myself permission to drink again because I was going to be moderate. Well that worked for a while then I was drinking every night. then I started hiding my drinking guzzling a beer as soon as I got home from work, looking forward to that all afternoon. Many times I would have 2 big beers before suppertime, then drink some more after dinner.
there was a black out period the first night of the cruise, I don't recall the later part of the evening. This past weekend was full of drinking. Don't get me wrong. I enjoy drinking and have fun doing so. It is very much a cultural thing down here. Drinking is a way of life for a lot of people. WE have drive thru dacquire huts here, you can get any type of drink that you want ...to go!
I have not been going to the gym and feel very guilty about that. I have gained all of this weight, feel frustrated about this. Jeff is very independent and is driving again, I can't use that as an excuse. I had been chewing on my hang nails again and now have been chewing on the inside of my cheeks.(self punishment) My poor fingers have healed and I am trying to keep them away from my mouth.
I don't have any hobbies.
I want to start a diet again and I want to go to the gym.
Drinking does not fit into that at all for me now.
I am going to take it one day at a time.
again, thank you for your support.
bizi

Dearest Bizi

I hear you taking stock, learning from past experience, and setting reasonable goals.

You know what you want.
You know what you don't want.
You can be gentle with yourself.
WE are here to support you.

GO GIRL! :)

Sending you lots and lots of postive vibes, with much love :heartthrob:

~ waves ~

Offering support / no judgement ever from me
 

Dear Bizi,
I am so sorry that you are struggling with this issue. I myself come from a long line of alcoholics addicts. The thing that worries me the most that you said is that you are guzzling down the booze. Which means you need quick relief from something. I tried to self medicate with alcohol, my stomach would not tolerate it or I would definately be an alcoholic. As you know I have chronic pain that I am learning to "manage". I think this is the key word. If you cannot manage the situation yourself you need to have others (husband) help you. I overdosed on my pain medication and suffered liver and kidney failure. I tell you that you want to avoid this at any cost. It is incredible how much pain and problems I suffer with daily from that. I can barely eat and digest any food. You need your liver. And the weight gain is from your body filling up with fluid. It gets very painful. I do not want to see you suffer this fate. I know what you mean about the AA meetings. I went to a few before being told by them that I was not welcome because I still have to take some pain medication to manage my pain and this made it hard for them to be around me. I also thought they were very self righteous in the way that they would love to reminisce about their drinking and then brag about how sober they were and then they would still continue drinking and just pretend they didn't. I did not like the religious part either. However, I have been forced through pain and suffering to find a higher power. I found this power was within myself. I just want you to know that I am hear to listen and offer comfort to you without any judgement. We all have our problems. Some just wont or can't acknowledge them.
With love,
Brain :hug:

This is huge. It is like a bridge to the AA tenets, minus the dogma.

Thank you so much, Brain.

And.... I am really sorry about how much you have suffered - and for the hypocrisy you encountered at the AA group you frequented. I would like to believe that there are AA groups out there that are not this cliquish, and not so hypocritical. I do not know, but I sure would like to think so.

~ waves ~

thank you for sharing brain patch.
I am sorry about your liver and kidneys.
AND for the pain that you experience.
I can't imagine what you go thru on a daily basis.
bizi
ya the guzzeling was a sure sign that it was becoming a problem. Jeff doesn't see it as a problem.
I told him that I was not going to drink last night but then later said that I wanted a drink and he said "lets both just have one". I was determined to have an alcohol free night and I did. no alcohol in the house.
I started my new diet yesterday and that doesn't allow me to drink 300 calories which is equal to an egg mcmuffin. 3 drinks=3 egg mcMuffins! no wonder I regained all of my weight.
So today is day 2.
bizi

I didn't like being in a group of people,and had social anxiety. I was very nervous at cafeterias,and auditoriums. I had anxiety attacks,and phobias. The Valium wasn't working very well.

When I became of age,and started drinking,and these anxieties seemed to melt away in the beginning. After awhile,I thought that I had a solution. I could drink on the weekends,and relax. Then I drank at parties. I drank. Then I drank,and drank.


My friend that died recently said that I had it down to a science. He said that I would become mellow. Well I did,but I drank way to often. This brings back some bad memories. BF:hug::hug::hug:

((( Steve ))) I am sorry about the bad memories. They are in the past though. You have enough going on right now. Try to move your mind to good memories.

Sending you good thoughts and :hug::hug::hug::hug:

~ waves ~

Dear steve I hope this thread is not causing you upset. please ignore it if it is.....but if it helps you to talk about the past please do that. I just don't want to contribute to your pain.:(
bizi

Bizi :hug: :hug: :hug:

I have never been a "fan" of alcohol BUT im addicted to many things, and if I leave one addiction, I still have plenty more to affect me daily... :rolleyes: so I understand you :hug:

Addictions are very difficult to deal with and they are hard and deep into us.... We have to fight like you say in your signature: one day at a time... The classic: not for today, maybe tomorrow...

I know it is very hard.... I cant stop eating even when I know Im severly affectimg my health :( I cant leave sugar :( But we have to fight !!!!

Thank you Bizi. The pain is inevitable. I started thinking about my old friend who died,and my dad died within the same 2 days. This is really,really painful. The grief comes,and goes,and I'll just have to live through it. I even took two Advil. It's almost like my world is getting smaller. My sister isn't doing all that well either. BF:hug::hug::hug:

Dear Steve, I am sorry for your losses it has been so hard on you. and now to hear that your sister is not doing well.
This must be bewildering to you. Know that we care about you and I am so sorry you are going thru this.
Pray more if this soothes you.
(((((HUGS)))))
bizi

Bizi,
How is it going today? Hope you are having a good day. Just thinking of you and sending support your way,
Brain :hug:

Dear Bizi
 

I just wanted you to know I am thinking about you too. I don't have the answers, but I do support you in trying to quit drinking. I care about you, and want you to be happy in your life. xxxginnie:hug::grouphug:

it will be a short night after a tv OD blahhhh.
but i wanted to leave you some friendly and encouraging ((((HUGS))))

don't know how today went, but want tor remind you that you deserve the best regardless - and you deserve some HUGS. :)

:hug::hug::hug::hug::hug::hug:

~ waves ~

Bizi,
Don't be afraid to talk even if you did drink today. It is ok. There is no judgement. I am not even suggesting you have to stop drinking. I just want you to be in control of it. Remember what I said about "managing" the situation. That does not mean cold turkey, none forever. You did a great job of going without any the last two days. If you needed to have a few drinks that is ok. Just don't want to see you hurt your body or mind with too much. Moderation is fine.
Keep talking to us and know you are supported and loved here no matter what.
Brain :hug:

thank you for your continued support.
I don't have any alcohol in the house and I don't plan on buying any either so I will remain alcohol free (AF) for as long as I can be.
Say my tdoc today.
We talked alot about my drinking behavior and she was happy with me for getting back in control.
bizi

Hi, Bizi,

'Good to hear that the tdoc is helpful.

Mari

trying not to drink this week
 

Dear Bizi

well done! you have got yourself organized not to drink - that helps. :)

-----------------------------

I will be trying not to drink, just this week, also.

unfortunately my house is well stocked and my dad drinks at dinner.

this is also the only week in my cycle i am not migraine prone, so it usually a time i consider my self "free" to drink if i want. so it really sucks because i do not feel like being abstinent.

Actually, abstinence is recommended throughout and for months after a benzo taper, but i haven't been observing that. I did not observe it the other time I d/c'd this benzo but I was having only occasional drinks, in small amounts. Come to think though, in the beginning i did have a couple of " drinking incidents" - so maybe the recent incidents ar erelated to the benzo decrease. hmmm. it would make sense.

~ waves ~ who is now very tired and won't be making sense soon.
__________________
My eyelids are getting heavier and heavier.

i believe a benzo taper could trigger your migraines.....
take the not drinking a day at a time.
Wish you were migraine free.
bizi

I love that one day at a time analogy, so many things in life it is one day at a time, one foot in front of the other.
Are there only religious AA type groups? Life is short my friend, I want you to be happy.
I understand the moderation is a challenge and I know you want to lose weight, I wish there was a good answer. Lots of info and life experiences shared by others really if full of thoughts and help to gain insight.
Huge hugs and love my friend. :hug:
Di.

Good Morning, Bizi
 

Thank you Bizi :) :hug::hug:

When I was real bad with alcohol there were times even a day was too long. :(
Those times, I'd bargain with myself to postpone a drink for 15 mins!

I do believe in setting goals in accordance with where I am at.
It feels good to be able to express them, if that is ok?
See, I haven't been drinking every day - not even close.
Current problem has been occasional overdoing and for the wrong reason - "using".

For where I am at now, I won't have any problem abstaining for one week.
I am only a bit disgruntled about the timing which coincides with my periodic "safe window" for "acceptable" drinking. :o

So is that ok for me to say.... that I'm not going to drink for a week?
I will still check in daily. :)

Hope you have a great day Bizi! :) :hug::hug::hug:

~ waves ~

Waves,

It is definitely o.k. for you to say that.
The plan you have set for yourself is good.
We follow our own stars.

Mari

12-step programs inherently Christian
 

Hi DiMarie and Everyone

This is just an FYI because some may not be aware that 12-step programs are typically based on the 12 Steps ideated by Alcoholics Anonymous (AA). These 12 steps have explicit Christian underpinnings. I have searched for adaptations but none that I found took out the religious parts. I have quoted the steps below.

Bizi - I know you are aware of this, it was more an FYI for other readers. If having this material here bothers you, please let me or a mod know so we can just remove this post.

http://www.aa.org.au/members/twelve-steps.php

I was once told by someone from AA that one's higher "power" (Step 2) need not be God. She said it could be a ... door-knob!!! (?) ReallY? If you read through these steps, you will see how difficult it might be, first to adapt them to exclude the Christian "God" (much less replace God with a door-knob! :rolleyes:) and second, to find a group able to accept and relate to someone having a "personalized" - and less religious - higher power.

~ waves ~ hoping this helps folks to get a better idea of what is and is not inherent in AA

Hi Bizi and Everyone,
So proud of you for taking control of the situation. Just don't want you to be too hard on yourself if you slip from your plan. This is the nature of the beast. Just keep trying and one day you will find that you don't have to try and struggle so much. Just taking things one day at a time is all any of us can do. It is the only way to deal with these issues. Keep talking and getting support. It does help when it is with people who are non judgemental.
And about AA- yes it is religious. It is for people who have lost all control and cannot count on themselves so they must turn to god. They say your higher power can be anything but they only say that at first to keep you from hitting the road. Of course, I live in SLC,UT as you know the Mormon Capitol of the world so maybe in other areas it might be different but I doubt it. It is good to talk about it with a group so this is where it could be helpful in my view but I told you of my experience with them. I am not in any way discouraging any kind of help though. It works for some.
Waves- I think your compulsion to drink is from tapering off your benzo. It gives you a lot of anxiety that is now manifesting in migraine headaches. The natural thing would be wanting to get out of the anxiety and as we all know alcohol kills this pretty quick. Be careful until you adjust. Are you coming off too quick?
Wishing you all a good day and love and support.
Brain :grouphug:

What???
 

:thud: O M G :thud:

I am just floored.:Noooo::(

Opinion is ok but there are too many assumptions behind these.
Let's get some things straight. (I shouldn't need to do this. :Sigh:)

Fact: Currently and recently, I have not had any "compulsion to drink."
Fact: I am not currently suffering from "anxiety". (I do know anxiety. :rolleyes:)
Fact: Benzo tapers do not cause non-existent drinking compulsion.
Fact: Migraines do not manifest from non-existent anxiety.
Fact: My migraines are "now manifesting" because "now" is their typical time.
Fact: I do have mood lability which preceded all and any changes in meds.


Fact: The poster does not know me, my condition, or my situation and has made assumptions.
Fact: Posting assumptions about other people can hurt them, regardless of one's intent. :o:(:heartthrob:

~ waves ~

Waves,
Sorry if I offended you. I was only reading what you said in the previous posts. This was just my opinion of the situation. I have a right to that. I have taken many of your opinions without freaking out. Maybe you are not a benzo genius. I have had compulsive effects from benzo's or from benzo tapering/quitting. I am not completely without experience on the subject. I was only trying to help. You know that. You also know I have traumatic brain injury so if I somehow missed something or took something the wrong way I would think you could give me a pass. What is your problem?
Brain

Does this message look familiar? You yourself say exactly what I said to you. I was agreeing with this message.
Brain

my problem is i have said a lot of things and i feel i have been completely misunderstood and misrepresented. your opinion was BASED On a lot of assumptions I felt i had to "debunk" in my fact list.
i am not completely without experience either - with same situation, same medical issues , and same meds.

FALSE. saying that i feel free to drink does not imply that i feel COMPELLED to drink. a couple of drinking incidence does not compulsion make. I guess have a lawyer check my posts next time ...

i already said i knew your intentions were good. now i can't even SET MY OWN FACTS STRAIGHT? you are going to argue online, about FACTS ABOUT ME?? WITH ME???

anyway, this thread is not about tapering benzo's so can we please can it now. i am already upset. do you want Bizi to end up feeling bad too just because it's her thread. because you know you have your issues, i have mine.

you may think i am hypersensitive - i react one way, others react others. some inner, some outter. but we are ALL sensitive. it comes with BIPOLAR package deal. that's my BIG problem right now and that is the FORUM you are on. So excuse me for freaking out at what you apparently think is nothing. TO ME it is a whole lotta SOMETHING. and it was unpleasant at that.

:(

*admin edit*

I was off line a couple of days due to our computer crashing. I have remained alcohol free. I really missed you guys.
bizi

Hi, Bizi,

You are doing well on your plan.

Mari

Re: Hi all
 

I just wanted to say hello to everyone. Read all the posts to catch up. I missed all of you.
The only thing I can add, is that every one of us faces some issues that are very difficult. Either Emotional, medical, physical, or all of them put together in different combos. Good grief, we need each other. I am not sure I would have gotten through my own issues without all of you. Maybe I would have cashed it in, I don't know. What I do know is that I find a great comfort in coming here to be with all of you. I know I am not alone, and that others care.
Even if I don't say things right, I try, and that is all any of us can do.
We don't get the benefit of seeing each other, our facial expressions, our mannerisms, posture, all those little nuances that help give meaning to our communication, or conversations. That is a critical component when trying to get across our meanings. It is like a card game, missing a few cards, sometimes the game just can't turn out perfect, because we don't have the full deck. I don't have the full deck, none of us do. I'd like to think we have a wild card, that is the compassion one. Lets all of us play that one as much as we can. I care about each person that comes here. I hope we all find peace. ginnie:grouphug::)

Welcome back, Bizi :Heart:

and great going on remaining alcohol free, especially with the recent stress! :)

~ waves ~