B12 - How much is too much?
 

My latest blood test showed my B12 at 870. Should I discontinue taking 5,000mg of Methyl B12 or do it every other day?

I read some articles online that claim TOO MUCH B12 can cause blood clots and other problems.

Vitamin B12 and Folate: 870 (range 211-946)
Folate (folic acid), serum: 9.3

A level of 870--
 

--is not very high at all, especially for people who are supplementing.

Did you stop taking your B12 several days before the test was done? That might have given a somewhat more accurate reading; if you were still supplementing right up to the day of the blood test, chances are your B12 had been low for a while. Those of us who supplement with 1000-5000mcg of B12 daily often show much higher levels (my last one was in the 1700's); we often have to explain to not-so-savvy doctors why the levels are that high (and why it's OK--we're supplementing, especially as there are no known toxic levels of B12, with studies from Japan and Europe having given up to 36,000mcg daily with few side effects beyond a little hyperness of energy state).

Mr.s D can probably speak to this better than I can--I can say I haven't heard about high levels of B12 causing blood clots, though. I believe that there are some conditions in which both high B12 and blood clots may be correlated, but some underlying factor is resulting in both.

Can you link to the article that high B12 causes blood clots?
Was it Livestrong? That site is often spotty in its information.

It is important to watch for odd internet sites...that do not have scientific bibliography to corroborate their statements.

This is an example of one that provides a good bibliography:
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocente...ns/vitaminB12/

and:

http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Vit...hProfessional/

Also a search on PubMed brought up no papers indicating clotting risk.

I did find on Mayo's site... a warning for people with cardiac stents. Because B12 may increase blood cell production, people with stents are to not use really high doses so as not to thicken the blood. The same goes for those with the genetic disease polycythemia Vera, which causes thickened blood with too many red cells. These are special situations, however. A simple CBC will show if there are too many red cells. Just about everyone here has had that test.

Yes, I believe it was Livestrong.

What do you think is a good B12 blood level? 900? 1,000?

Most of us with neuro symptoms keep our level above 1000.
Some more than others.

Going really high is not necessary unless some people have the rare transcobalamin problem. When this is low, transport of B12 is less efficient and it is thought then to keep the blood level higher, to make up for that loss. But the days are early for transcobalamin decisions, so I can't say with certainty yet, since everyone IS different genetically. Tests for transcobalamin are just beginning to be offered.

How long does B12 stay in ones system? If one stopped taking B12, how long before their levels would start depleting and is there a rate of depletion or is that dependent on the person?

Alot is dependent on the person.

The liver stores excess B12 up to 5 yrs, that we know of. Not everyone will have that long storage..but some do.

The reason I think it is important to stay over 1000, is the transport into the CSF (cerebrospinal fluid). B12 moves into the spinal cord and brain this way...involving a gradient from high (blood serum) to low (brain + spinal cord)... A person on TBI once posted a paper on this movement, and I wish I had copied it, but I didn't.

So the higher the serum the better the movement into the central nervous system. We know from recent studies that MS and Fibro patients show lower than normal B12 in the CSF taken by lumbar punctures. And also Dr. Snow in his very important paper had patients who he thought were fairly normal in levels, who did better on supplement ANYWAY. These were few compared to the total number, but still had neuro symptoms at fairly mid range B12 levels. So his take was to give the supplements anyway. I have that paper linked on the B12 thread. I think it is post #70.

So it will vary from person to person. But expect some B12 to be stored in the liver, and also to move into the CNS and out of the serum. After months of highs, that you feel better finally and stabilized there, you can drop to 1000mcg a day orally.

There also may be other factors... low D.... impaired B1 metabolism, etc. So once there is no change with B12, you need to look at other things too. Some PN tingling etc is paresthesia...a symptom of some imbalance. PN is a disease of nerves.(with damage). So separating that out is dicey and you have to be patient with those thoughts. Keep a journal, as that may help. Things like MSG in food will definitely cause neuro symptoms in some people. Glutamate and aspartate (Nutrasweet) are big culprits! Watch for those food intolerances ..that come from nightshades, etc.

On average, what daily amount of Methyl B12 will keep the level above 1000? Once I have taken a starting level, I can have my B12 level tested and go from there. I assume a 90 day period will be sufficient for a beginning test?

Thank you.

Mike

I think it depends on how low you were to begin with.

Some people are running only on liver stores. Others are absorbing some but not ideal amounts from food.

The body will want to use the B12 in whatever priority it seems to have. Some will get stored back up in the liver. Some will pass thru the blood brain barrier into the brain and spinal cord, some will go to the bone marrow for making new red blood cells, and then other tissues will get some too. I don't think anyone has discovered the priority issues, or tested them. But like every thing else, we are all unique and will respond the way the systems determine inside of us.

I think 3 months at 5mg a day, is enough to show if things are working well. If you stop the B12 for about 3-7 days, the last dose orally will be soaked up and the blood level will reflect what you need. If you test really high that may show your systems are "full" and the excess is floating around waiting to be excreted. If you are not really high (over 1000), then you are still repairing what needed it most (or you are not absorbing it properly).

My doctor said that high doses of methyl B12 (5,000 MG) can actually lower your B6 levels. So they recommended taking B6 along with B12.

Is this true?

B6 is a cofactor in homocysteine chemistry. Methylfolate and methylcobalamin are the two others that work as a team in this one reaction.

But B6 also does many other things in the body, and so do the other 2.

When something is "consumed" in a biochemical reaction in the body, its level is therefore "lowered". Whether is is a huge effect, I have not seen reported. But B6 is a critical nutrient, just like the other two. B6 has to be activated you know, and B2 riboflavin is the cofactor for that! Be low in riboflavin and you won't get activated B6 (called P5P), either.

Taking a complex if you think you are low is a good idea.
B-Right by Jarrow now has the 3 activated forms in it of B12, folate and B6. Its doses are lower than a B-50, but higher than a multivitamin.

My B12 levels showed to be 1,150.

At this point I stopped B12 supplementation. Would a 5000mg dose once every 2 weeks be OK or should I stop altogether?

FWIW, I can give one data-point; my lowest level of B12 (166) had been brought up to 1460 in Jan. 2012. Since then, I had a couple of more weekly shots, but stopped them in March 2012.

In August 2012, despite 2 more 1000mcg injections in June and July, the levels had dropped to 482.

Despite a complete alcohol & medication stop, that level dropped further to 375 by November 2012. Shortly after that, I started the oral 5000mcg methylcobalamin, so that by April 2013 it was back up to 1298.

All these tests were done in the same lab. The drop from 1460 to 482 was steep and unexpected, the further drop despite healthy living even more so.

In short, that's a 1000 point drop in 5-6 months.

I would take it twice a week for now. If you stop you may fall back more than you think. There is nothing "wrong" with that level, when you supplement. Remember you don't absorb all of that dose by any means! Only a tiny fraction in reality.
You made a typo... it is 5000micrograms or 5mg.

hello again MrsD ,

I just started b12 4 days ago ( I am taking 5u x3 ) and noticed this tingling for the first time today .

On day 1 the tingling felt good and very much the mood boost id read about , then on day 2 less noticeable.

On day 3 I noticed my mood becoming more affected in a bad way - not depressed - more off and on day 4 ( today ) I decided to inject my quad instead of glutes where Id been injecting before.

Do you think it is possible injecting in different areas have different effects ( for better or worse ) and have you ever heard of people with connective tissue disorders ( such as hms / eds ) having a bad reaction to it ?

thanks and hope your keeping well,

m

I don't understand your dose as you typed it.

What is 5u x 3?


Are you using Cyano or methyl type?

Could you clarify please?

I am using the Cyano , U was meant to mean Units I think, but I really meant ml so 0.05 ml or 0.15 per day sorry about that.

I stopped my other doses yesterday and took some B1 which seemed to help ( despite being 2 months out of date ) and citicoline. ( waiting for restock for other stuff )

Worrying thing was I noticed the tingling spread to my face a bit like some other poster mentioned - and seems to flare up bit whenever I eat anything .

This reminded a lot of 10 yrs ago at his peak when I had gastro problems ontop of pn as well , as I had to avoid lots of food which seemed to trigger pn as well.

Bit depressing as it seemed to help my connective tissue problems a bit as well , but i dont want to take any chances after only 4 days of this.

melon

Thanks for the clarification. However I am still confused.

Cyanocobalamin injection in the US only comes in 1000mcg/ml.

From that one injection a study has shown 150mcg would be absorbed. This study is linked in the first post, of the B12 thread here. The typical injection dose is 1ml therefore here (1000mcg).

So it still seems confusing to me how much you are injecting.

we need mcg/ml to make any helpful suggestion here. 0.5 of 1000/mcg/ml would hardly be worth the price of the syringe....unless you have some sort of prob that you need daily supplementation. make sure you are getting enough potassium.

Sorry ,It is low ( 150 mcg ) because I wanted to be cautious and because some woman cured herself taking lower amounts daily- seems I was right as well given my reaction ( my face / legs is still tingling )

heres where I bought it.


lords knows how bad id be with the full 1ml / 1000 mcg

m

You may need additional potassium, it is used for healing, and when it gets low, you will have symptoms.

B12
 

HI,I understand that it is better to take B12 on a empty stomach,so how long
after taking B12 would it be safe to eat to get the benefits of taking B12 on a
empty stomach,thanks

1/2 hr to 45 minutes. Take with adequate water so it will move out
of the stomach faster.

B12
 

HI,Thank you for quick reply.