Expired credits
 

I've been a stay at home mom for the most part but have worked outside of the home here and there.

Back in 2000 I was diagnosed with two separate conditions, both that could have put me on SSD but I didn't think of going on it at that time.

I managed to work for 2 1/2 years until 1 of my conditions really got bad (heart) and nearly passing out in bathroom at work isn't the best thing to do, from 2009-2011. So I applied for SSD, was told how many credits I needed and I knew I had that many from the SS paper that is sent out. Imagine my surprise when I was told that most of my credits were expired for SSD but not for SS when I turn 67.

I doubt that with my problems I make it to 67. Even though I've been a dependent on my husband's paycheck and filed income tax with him for over 30 years that doesn't help me either.

The kicker? If he files and gets SSD, I'll get half of what he gets whether we're still married or not as long as I'm not remarried.

"Even if we're not married as long as I'm not remarried". Now how is that fair and why am I punished for staying home cooking, cleaning, raising kids and taking care of my family/home 24/7? If my husband didn't pay his taxes they'd come after ME also as long as my name was on his returns.

How crazy this can be.

Payroll taxes (FICA/OASDI) have always been the method of funding Social Security retirement and Social Security Disability and the person who goes to the job and gets the paycheck is the one who earns the right to Social Security benefits. Has been the policy since Roosevelt and the New Deal in 1935 when Social Security began.

SSA used the term 'wage-earner' to describe who can get benefits. Now once the wage-earner is no longer working due to their own disability or their own attainment of retirement age or their death, then it can be possible for their dependents, including their elderly spouse (age 62, not age 67) or their minor children or their wife/husband taking care of their young children, to also get benefits because those dependents have also suffered a loss of support because the wage-earner can no longer earn a wage. Widows can get paid younger, age 60. Disabled widows can sometimes be paid at age 50. All of this entitlement is based on the loss of earning power by the person who was going to the job every day and earning the money. That is the crux, the underlying assumption, the basis for all Social Security benefits.

It is too bad that you didn't understand this when you were a SAHM. You might have chosen to work part-time every year, just to get your own credits. This is not a new story and it is too bad that some young adults don't know and don't bother to understand the taxes that they pay and why they pay them since it will catch up with them eventually, and then they are surprised, like you.

Paying income taxes on a joint tax return is totally different from paying payroll taxes (FICA/OASDI) on a paycheck. Income tax is also withheld from paychecks and is owed on rental income, interest income, dividends, etc. But FICA/OASDI taxes are ONLY withheld from paychecks from jobs or paid by a self-employed person with a business profit.

Social Security is a program that is funded by payroll taxes (FICA/OASDI) and no stay at home parent is working for an employer who pays them for the work they are doing. Expecting Social Security benefits from paying income taxes is like expecting your car insurance company to pay for the fire damage in your kitchen. FICA and income tax fund different programs like car insurance and homeowner's insurance pay for different losses.

Sorry you didn't understand this when you could have done something different. You are not being punished. You just didn't pay into the disability program enough years. Which really was your choice.

There is the Supplemental Security Income program that pays disabled people with limited income and assets, but your husband's money does affect whether or not you can get SSI and he may earn too much from his job.

Hi Granny
 

I had problems with "credits" with SS as well. Evidently you have to work a number of quarters consecutlively in order to quality. I had health issues pop up, where I took a number of years off, then went back to work. The previous quarters are dropped, and you start over. NO is is not fair. It should be the cummulative number of quarters you work, I hope you get all the help you need. Retain a legal assistant or a lawyer to help you. They keep the case moving forward. ginnie

If THAT was the type of long term disability insurance that you wanted to purchase, you might have tried to obtain that kind of coverage from a private insurance company.

That type of long term disability insurance coverage has never been available from our government.

Well I have to comment here.

All of my work credits for retirement SS, were saved and used when I retired. Nothing was lost. I had some breaks over the past 40 yrs, but the credits remained anyway. Some years I worked part-time and some full time. Some not at all, but I had more than enough to apply fully for SS at the proper time.
I often worked full time for 3/4 of the year and took summers off to be with my family, and travel.

I didn't work the last 4 or so years, because of an injury. My husband still has income, so I just waited until I reached 66 which is the new retirement for baby boomers in my age group. There was no penalty for this.

I never applied for disability because we really didn't need that income. (leg injury and I had to stand to work).
So I do see that "credits" can be confusing to some. I had more than 40 credits for my work history BTW.

Hi Finz
 

You are right, a private insurance would have been great. Unfortunatly, I was NOT accepted by any company for insurance due to pre-existing conditions. Even my parents tried to find a company they could afford for me. It was outside the relm of possibilities for me. That is what happens when you have a real medical issue young, and then can't get insurance. ginnie

Exactly.

Purchasing disability insurance when you have a pre existing condition that makes it difficult for one to work, really isn't a feasible option. Private companies, who could charge exorbitant rates, still don't want to write that policy. You can't blame the US government, who can't change the premium based on our medical histories, for not being able to offer disability insurance for the "uninsurable." It is NOT the government's fault that you couldn't work enough to take advantage of the disability insurance they offer.

they do its called SSI.

Sorry, I should have said, disability insurance "purchased by recently working the required amount of quarters" do differentiate SSDI (which I was referring to) from SSI

Ginnie gets SSI, but feels she is entitled to more.

Not so finz
 

I am glad I got SSI. However my beef is that I was not allowed any insurance at all in this country forcing me to this situation. People can't help getting sick at a young age. I worked 34 years, and paid into this system. It isn't entitlements, it is earned. ginnie

Someone 22 or younger CAN in fact qualify for SSDI based on their parents work record. And the work credits needed for a young person to qualify on their own work record are significantly reduced, so the argument that a young person that becomes disabled has a disadvantage with the current SSDI rules, just isn't true.

Choosing to Stay at Home does make a person vulenerable financially in some ways. When someone attempts to return to the workforce without an advanced degree or valued trade, they will be unlikely to make much income and have a decent SS retirement income as well. In this economy, young college graduates are often struggling to find jobs of any type, so there is no guarantee that the OP could have found work, had she been healthy, after her kids left the nest anyway.

My mother, who is 70, warned me that I needed to be careful to maintain my financial independence regardless of my husband's income and having children, because some of her friends were devastated financially in the 80's and 90's when they failed to receive alimony after being married even 20-30+ years.

The flip side is that being able to be a SAHM is a wonderful gift to your family and is very fulfilling personally for many...

If you started work at age 16, worked every year for the next 34 years, you would have stopped work at age 50 and should have had enough Social Security credits to create a date last insured at age 55. But that doesn't correspond with getting sick at a young age and being unable to work.

Perhaps your work was sporadic, you worked off and on for 34 years, or for cash, or for places that didn't pay into Social Security.

Work
 

Got sick at 29, and worked out of my home as an artist. I did 10 years of a trial study, in between going to art shows. Took Chemo, is what it was. Since that time, developed 4 auto immune diseases, and had 9 surgeries. Worked inbetween all of them, The last one took me out of commission at 54 years old. I worked as much as huminaly possible. You only can do what you can do under those circumstances. I had too many breaks inbetween for treatment and recovery. The 10 years of the trial study was the hardest. I can garden sitting on my butt now, but it would be hard to find a job like that. Can't look up or down well, or walk, stand for any length of time. My joints are shot. ginnie

Ginnie's story is important because it shows how crucial working and paying Social Security taxes can be for people who are not wealthy. Disability can strike at any time and without Social Security disability, there would be many many many people who would run out of life savings pretty quickly and would either rely on family or public assistance like SSI. Working out her home, probably for cash: I am guessing that no self-employment tax returns were filed for some of the years and no FICA taxes paid on some of those years since there was no employer.

There are many people who don't make a plan for this kind of possibility, who never took the time to understand why certain taxes are paid (FICA vs income tax) and are quite surprised later in life when they don't qualify, like the OP. When you are working, it is nicer to have the money in your pocket now rather than paying a FICA tax for some old-age pension. The information has always been available, but it would require searching it out. I suppose it could be taught in some life skill class in high school, but teenagers are the least likely to absorb that information since they tend to believe they are indestructible.

Becoming disabled at age 29 will not allow for entitlement on a parent. Childhood disability benefits were designed for adults who did become disabled either at birth or as children since they would have had no chance to earn Social Security credits on their own. Mostly the developmentally disabled but also children who had serious medical conditions early.

work
 

I had a CPA. I paid taxes in each state that I went to. The shows are required by law to collect sales tax at the site of the show. I filed, but I had alot of deductions. Mrs. Kruegar did what she thought was best for me under the circumstances. What I had was alot of time between shows or breaks in the work records. I worked for 9 years before I got sick and of course filed regular. I had a 10 year break from working at all, during my trial studies. That set me back to square one. It was lack of insurance which was denied to me that hurt the most. My folks paid out of pocket for treatment, and of course that hurt them too. I don't know what else I could have done. You have to work consecutive years to get adequate help. I had too much wrong with me to do that. ginnie

Hi Janke
 

I did file social security for every show that I did. It is required by law. I had a CPA. What I had was a work record that was scattered due to illness. ginnie

I owe you an apology for making an assumption that was out of line. I am sorry. I will be more thoughtful before I post again.

I began working at 16, and became disabled in my late 20's and receive a substantial SSDI payment on my own work record.

SS gives a person 5 years in which to file for SSDI before they face ineligibity--which is a long time IMO.

It is important to let people know how important their work credits are and to pick up a long term disability policy as young as possible.

Ginnie's situation is complicated and involves issues that the vast majority of disabled worker's will not ever face, such as how to retain possession of a valuable home via a trust, while collecting SSI and/or Medicaid.

I was hoping this thread wouldn't get derailed, but it seems to be too late, so I'll add my family's experiences. I had an aunt that was an artist and owned an expensive home in the Bay Area, which she was forced to sell after working many years as a successful graphic artist when book publishing began to change and utilize employees that did the work on computers. She struggled for many years and bought down a few times so she could live off part of her home sale proceeds. She worked part time, from home, making just enough to get by and ended up with cancer. At the time, CA offered insurance for those that didn't qualify for Medicaid and had serious health issues. My mom and grandparents were often forced to cover the cost, which was very high. The reality is, that it is incredibly difficult to make a living as an artist, so unless you are in the 1% luck and talent wise, it can be a tough way to make a living. My mother, who chose a more stable and practical occupation, subsidized my aunt's lifestyle choices for many years.

When my mom retired, she very generously offered to add me as a beneficiary to her pension. If she dies before I do, I'll receive a portion of her monthly income. At the time, I had not yet been approved for SSDI, and we discussed if it made sense for her to reduce her own retirement AND make me ineligible for potential entitlement programs in the future--SSI, Medicaid, Section 8, food stamps, etc. She chose to make the sacrifice, so that I would have the security, and not ever have to worry about government policies and funding.

I also spend nearly $500 a month on insurance because I carry a high tier Medicare supplement, while many gamble that they don't need it. (Most of my medical expenses are covered by WC.) It's a major sacrifice to ensure my long term financial stability.

I'm also relocating to an area with a lower cost of living, so I can afford to buy a home. Which is something that many people on SS are faced with.

So, while I can feel great empathy for those that are struggling, I also think it would be unfair for the public to have to pay for the consequences of their decisions, unless they're destitute.

Hi Janke
 

No problem. We don't know what the other does, until we tell them. If you would like to see what I did for a living, I still have my web site out there. PM me and I will send you the address of it on the internet.
I really did do things the right way, and tried my best. The Name of my business was Noah's Country Ark. I never ever would have quit, it was my life, my passion, and they still dance in my dreams. I did miniatures in 1/2 inch scale, or about the size of a dime. I was blessed to have this business Janke, and developed it while I was taking chemo. A good way to channel the pain. ginnie:hug:

Hi lit Love
 

Thank you for telling me about your Aunt. You are very right about it being hard to be an artist. I raised two kids alone on the business I had. I was very lucky to have developed this art form, and make a small but good living from it. I did my absolute best. I did know I was in trouble Lit Love, from the very first, I did all I could do. PM me and I can show you what I did. ginnie:hug:
PS. sorry if I side tracked the thread.....:hug:

By saying that benefits were EARNED, you imply that you worked steadily for those 34 years and were current with your quarters. You could not do that because of your health issues, so those benefits were NOT earned.

It is important to make that point clear so as not to confuse the new posters who come here with questions, trying to understand how the system works.

Let's let this thread get back on track for the new member that asked the first question.

If more discussion per ginnies case that can be on a new thread for her, or via PM.
Thank you.

Dr. Reports
 

Do you have any Dr. reports or anything showing you became disabled in 2000? I believe that's what year you said you did. Even though you did work for 2 1/2 years, you did work with a disability. If you have any doctors reports those need to be used to show you were disabled on or before your last insured date. Perhaps someone has already mentioned doing this, so sorry if this is just a repeat of what someone may have said. Also, from what I'm now learning they also look & count five years after your last insured date, so it sounds to me like you are in that category.

I know when dealing with the social security office they are very quick to say to someone they don't qualify if they can use the last insured date routine. I've dealt with it myself so I know. It isn't an end all, but you have to work that much harder to prove your disability started around that date. I personally think it's a stupid rule if someone hasn't known about it. I notice the social security office doesn't state someone's last insured date on their yearly statements they send out. I think we know why. They deliberately don't do that, they don't want people to know. Some people have told me it's like car insurance, but I notice my car insurance does tell me the date I'm insured to. Besides that, we aren't cars, we are human beings who have unfortunately fallen under a very bad rule that works in their favor if you don't do extra steps to prove everything. Good luck, you have my sympathy. It's too bad employees can't just build up an account to use if they ever become disabled & the date insured has nothing to do with it. If it's that critical regarding the date, again they should DISCLOSE this to each working employee. Just keep fighting and don't give up, that's what they want you to do.

Here is a quote from my Social Security Statement dated 7/15/1998 under the heading Disability Benefits:

"If you become disabled right now, you need 22 credits to qualify for benefits. You have to earn 20 of these credits in the last 10 years. Your record shows you do not have enough credits in the 10-year period.

Because you do not meet both parts of the disability credits requirement right now, we are not giving you a benefit estimate. If you work in the future and earn enough credits to qualify, we will give you a benefit estimate then"

Didn't read the rest of mine, but this one Statement did spell out the disability requirement pretty well. I doubt it is an anomaly.

Granny,

I think it's important to remember that (aside from a few specific medical issues) it's not having a certain diagnosis that would have "put you on SSDI". Being approved as totally disabled for SSDI/SSI purposes is about how a certain medical condition affects each applicant and their ability t do work. Despite having certain diagnoses, you state that you were able to work, for several years after that. That would mean that you weren't totally disabled at that time.

My primary disabling condition is RSD. It has left me totally disabled.

There are many members of Neuro Talk on the RSD forum who are still able to manage working. They are not totally disabled by their RSD at this time. Paula Abdul worked for years on American Idol, earning and paying SS taxes on a sizeable salary, after her dx of RSD. She wasn't totally disabled by it.

I'm sorry that you weren't more aware of the eligibility requirements for SSDI when it could have helped you. Unfortunately, too many of us don't think of the important details about many insurances until it's too late.

Credits
 

The way I interpret your comment, your credits expired for disability benefits. Credits for retirement under SS do not expire from what I understand. Once you have earned enough credits for retirement, you are entitled to retirement benefits upon reaching retirement age.

Back to disability. I don't have the rules in front of me but it is my understanding that credits must be earned for 5 out of 10 years prior to your disability. WHEN your credits are earned affects disability benefit rules but NOT retirement benefit rules. Example: You work from age 22 to 42 and earn 80 credits, more than enough for retirement. You quit working at 42 and stay home. At age 52, you return to the workforce and work for a year and then become disabled at age 53. For disability, they look at the prior 10 years credits. You would only have at best, 4 credits, for the year you worked between the age of 42 and 53.

Well, that is how I interpret the rules. I could be wrong and many here will be glad to point that out if I am incorrect.

I hope I have helped respond to the comment as you stated.

Hi hopeless
 

I did have the same thing happen to me as far as credits worked. I believe that explaination is correct. I just squeeked by as I had too many breaks for health conditions, and lost previous credits. Don't like the system, it is hard when you have the medical problems that keep you from working. ginnie:hug: