Danger of Alpha lipoic Acid
 

Mecury? I read this:


first off do NOT take alpha lipoic acid if you have mercury Amalgam fillings in your teeth. it will leach the mercury into your system.


Anyone heard of this??? scary.

Also have you ever heard of Dr. Schulze 's nerve tonic ?

It's all in this link:

http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=1339030

Good grief Stacy
 

I will look into this. Thanks for the tip. I do take that vitamin and I do have those fillings. What next.....ginnie:hug:

I was also warned not to use ALA with mercury amalgam fillings
mainly because it can cross the BBB so any mercury it chelates could enter CNS?

I don't know how these things get started. As always, consider the sources quoted. Most of what I see are fear-mongering posts to other message boards referencing yet other message boards, etc. with very little/no credible supporting documentation. I find no studies that back up the claim.

In a review of literature (which can also be found on PubMed) I find exactly the opposite:

Mercury Toxicity and Antioxidants:
Part I: Role of Glutathione and alpha-Lipoic
Acid in the Treatment of Mercury Toxicity
(See page 7/16 of the pdf)

They're using ALA to remove mercury from the brain (which is part of the CNS) and other organs.

Even in some of the questionable sites, when I read far enough, they are talking about amounts of ALA much higher than those we are using here.

Doc

We have another discussion about this here.

Please use the search function to find it.

You can also try the PubMed link at the top
of the page. Use thiotic acid with the word mercury
There as well as lipoic acid, as thiotic acid is the
Alternate name often used in scientific papers.

Some lay sites are not reliable and paraphrase others
Sometimes incorrectly. Another good reference is
Linus Pauling institute at Oregon university.

I am on an iPhone and typing is difficult and I don't know
how to copy links yet.

If you search lipoic acid here you will find other discussions
about this topic.

Respectfully, It was my highly respected PHYSICIANS who cautioned me not to use ALA

I was told it is a potent mercury chelator and yes, therefore can remove mercury, but because I had high mercury levels (tested) he advised I use chlorella instead because the ALA can cross the BBB and so in doing it's job of chelating mercury, could actually aid in carrying more in.
I was told that once the testing showed my levels sufficiently down, the ALA could be used to mop up any more but I decided not to use it.
Later testing showed the chlorella had done an excellent job!

My "source" was my physician, as well as my dentist, as well as another health professional, not a "fear mongering post to a message board"! I decided to follow *their professional advice*.

Last I checked, NeuroTalk was a place where everyone was free to express their opinion, and especially their personal experience.

I don't know who is right and who is wrong but I figure we all owe it to ourself to make informed decisions.

I have found there is a little truth to every side of the story with both sides making a whole picture.

And I don't disregard other peoples opinions based on where they are posting, real people are usually more honest than a group, or dr, or survery, or study.

In any case, I just thought I would share it, makes no diff to me which side of the fence you fall on as long as you take the time to be informed. :)

happy sunday

considering the conflicting, uninformed, outdated, and simply erroneous information that many people with PN receive from doctors and other health professionals, there is a general healthy skepticism of professional advice not backed up by studies employing the scientific method.
As an example of medical professionals looking at the same disease and reaching vastly differing conclusions, look at the controversy amongst medical professionals for decades now relating to lyme disease, testing for, diagnosis, treatment, effects, etc. in the same vein,the entire field of supplements is highly controversial even in the face of emerging scientific fact.

I think that Thorne link in Dr. Smith's
Post is quite interesting.

Everything in medicine is suspect IMO
Most of the time. I am reading a non fiction
Medical history book this vacation and
It is basically horrifying-- Drawing Blood.

Did you know the Mayo clinic was founded
by Dr. William Mayo who established
it to do spleen removals for a fraudulent
diagnosis--- splenic anemia.
The doctors there were called "murderers"
by their colleagues and this went on
For many years! Because most of the
Patients either died right after the surgery
or within 5 or less years thereafter.




This book really illustrates how medicine
evolved in the US in the early 1900's.

I'd be interested in the book you're reading. Can you share the title/author?

Dr. William Mayo
 

I did some checking and from what I read what you say seems to be true. However, we have to remember that there was not much known at that time and that's how doctors learned - thru trial and error. This still goes on today whether it be an operation, chemo, radiation, etc. Works for some and not for others.

Human trials today seem to help weed out some of the mistakes. As we know, there are many trials going on for all kinds of disorders.

The Mayo Clinic today is one of the top notch places to go when you have medical disorders that can't be totally helped in your local community. This is true of the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN.

Dr. Burton Berkson is the doctor to read about in regards to ALA, I have his books. He is a integrative MD.

After thinking about this, I kinda remember this discussion before, and no I did not search for it again as quite frankly I have more rambling abound in my head than I need right now, but even if this has been discussed before, there are always new people visiting this forum, that do not know it has been discussed and do not know to "search" for it.

I just think it's helpful, in all honesty, even when subjects get brought up again and again as it helps new visitors and reminds some of the old ones...me, to maybe look into it again if I didn't before.

Sometimes I read so much that I have to selectively choose to put a topic on a back burner and visit it again later.

I am wondering if this theory applies to R lipoic acid also. ( have not researched again, just too tired to do it right now, I am wrapped up in a lot of other theories, ideas, plans, supplements)

Always good to hear new ideas on old topics. :)

Respectfully, nothing I said was directed personally. First, I was responding in general -- not to your OP in particular. Second, you didn't mention that in your OP.

Were you told that was fact or theory, because I just had the same discussion with my dentist and doctor about 2 weeks ago because of the various supplements & meds I'm on, and they both said that was a theory, but that there were no studies supporting it.

What can I say? I'm a child of the sixties; I was taught by loving, educated, saavy parents, teachers, and mentors to question everything -- especially "authority". My doctors have never had a problem with that (the ones I've kept, anyway -- in fact, they've commended it, especially when it comes to things gleaned from the internet).

They and I know they've been mistaken before (I've learned from experience and reading others' posts here on NT that medical professionals can be in error and/or disagree on various things), and I wanted to get to the bottom of it myself. So in answering Stacy, I spent about 3-1/2 hours online trying to track down the science, and the links I provided were the best I could find. There may be more -- I don't know. They were the best I could find. Most of what I saw was as I stated. Take a look.
alpha lipoic acid mercury fillings
Of the 10 hits on the first page, 9 link to other discussion forums and blogs, and the tenth links here. Obviously I went much farther than that, but for the most part, results reflected what is IMO, unsupported fear mongering, often going around in circles. That's one reason a lot of doctors don't like and/or won't except information garnered online. Every medical professional I've ever known has said as much, and I understand their point.
Sorry if our sources conflict. That happens sometimes, and as you say....

I agree, and that's what I did -- express my opinion based on my online search. I reported what I found, and acknowledged the sites that bothered to put things into perspective by specifying the amounts of ALA they were talking about (the concensus of what I found was less than 200 mg/day of RLA is ok; more than that isn't.)

I stand by my statement to consider sources.
Thank you, that's exactly what I meant. As always, it includes me, and I have said as much many times. IMO, respected sources & studies outweigh unsupported claims and heresay.

Respectfully,

Doc

Want medical horror? The Road to Wellville is on our "wish list".

I have a small collection of 19th C. medical books. They used mercury to treat lead poisoning and lead to treat mercury poisoning. :Dunno:

Re: Mayo, Alfred Nobel, who used his fortune to posthumously institute the Nobel Prizes, made much of that fortune from his invention of dynamite, selling armaments, and war profiteering. He became so villified during his lifetime that he wanted to atone by creating the Prizes.
Doc

For those interested further:

Drawing Blood
by Keith Wailoo associate professor in the dept. Of Social
Medicine and the Dept. of History Univ. of North Carolina
at Chapel Hill. (at the time of the book's writing) 1997.

I am now on chapter 4: pernicious anemia and Dr. Mayo
is still doing splenectomies for this problem too.( and the
Majority of his patients are still dying.

What this history reveals is also the attitudes of doctors,
Which patients are not privy to. In that regard it is very
Horrifying and revealing. I really don't think much has
Changed today except that Big pharma has taken hold
of many doctors to the patients' detriment. But that is
just my opinion and experience.

Amazon has this book in its used section for very
little cost.

It is very helpful to read older posts here. Some posters
move on but contribute helpful things. We have so many
Posts on this subject it is worth looking at them.

In my own long history in both professional and personal medical research, and being on health forums, "scientific studies" don't always carry much weight for me ... I have personally seen how studies can and do get "skewed" to suit the research....so that is where I, a child of the Fifties and teen of the Sixties, do frequently question rather than just accepting!

My own preference has always been Integrative and holistic healthcare rather than "conventional", and anyone who knows my history knows how often I question things, nomatter who is claiming it as "fact".

"Anecdotal evidence" for alternative treatments saved my son's life, when some conventional medical professionals were adamant it would harm him......... so I do question when anyone just dismisses it as fear mongering or quackery.........message boards and the patients and caregivers that post to them are frequently way ahead of the curve, simply because of the wealth of personal experience that can sometimes light the way to breakthroughs that the conventional medical field may not even have considered as viable before.
NeuroTalk is a clear example of that!

And there are also many brave physicians who do think outside the textbook, and risk ridicule from their peers because they have seen enough personal case histories to believe something, even though there may not yet be "scientific studies" to prove what they already know.

So, back to my only reason for having posted here. I had toxic mercury levels and my only known mercury exposure was from multiple, and in some cases cracked or chipped, dental amalgams. i saw highly experienced Integrative and holistic professionals who gave me advice that made sense to me...and that was simply to be cautious about ALA in someone who already had high mercury levels due to its ability to cross the BBB with chelated mercury.

This has nothing to do with PN or the dose of ALA found helpful here (which I know nothing about) ......or anything else other than the OP posting about ALA and mercury, to which I responded from my personal experience of safely being treated for dangerously high mercury levels without bad side effects.
And I absolutely stand by that...........

Now I will excuse myself from this discussion :)

Dr. William Worrall Mayo, etc.
 

Dr. William Worrell Mayo died in 1911. Dr. William James Mayo died in 1939 and Dr. Charles Horace Mayo died in 1939.

Spleenectomies are still done today. Here is a site: Scroll down to "Hemolytic Anemia".

http://www.mayoclinic.org/anemia/treatment.html

Here is a history of the Mayo Clinic:

http://www.mayoclinic.org/history/

I can't say that the Mayo Clinic was "established" for the purpose of doing spleen removals for a fraudulent diagnosis of spleen anemia.

Dangers of Alpha Lipoic Acid
 

Very interesting, as I've been prone to use this in the past. Going to take a look at some suggested links and research some of own:confused:

I am only relating what is stated in
The book I referenced. I did not write
The history myself. The bibliography in
This book is 80 pages long! You are welcome to
buy or borrow the book for your own purposes and
Read further.

The splenectomies were done for the erroneous belief
In splenic anemia. These surgeries are still done for
Some uncommon other reasons today but back then
Were done for common anemias.

Drawing Blood, the book, appears to be
On google books. I can't link on this iPhone
But I think you can find it easily .
I used splenic anemia William mayo history
As a keyword phrase.

I only see Dr. William Mayo's name mentioned once on page 49 of that book. This was under "The Rise and Fall of Speenic Anemia". There were many physicians before and after him. By the 1930's spleenic anemia was seldom mentioned.

http://books.google.com/books?id=XAu...0blood&f=false

Scroll down to #2.

Hi Mrs. D
 

Do you know if there were several Dr. Mayo's? I seem to recall that when I went there, one of the doctors who DX'd me in the late 80's was a Doc. Mayo. Now I am curious. ginnie

Ginnie, we are talking about history
Back in the early 1900's.

In my edition of this book, page 60
Has a lot of detail, and surprising to
Me many subsequent pages. I am
Still in chapter 4 which is the pernicious
Anemia history, and Mayo was removing
Spleens for that too. I am reading another book
Called The Forest and trading back and forth.

We have no TV here. So I tend to read a lot.

The bibliography details many medical
Papers at that time of the continuing
Arguments between radical surgeries (at
Mayo) and other doctors who believed
These surgeries were fatal and unnecessary .

One needs to really read in context because the rise in
Abdominal surgeries was the real problem at that time
And lead to unnecessary suffering and death.

There was a psychiatrist at a mental hospital in North Jersey that believed mental illness was caused by infection. This was the early twentieth century. He began by removing teeth, then proceeded to more involved abdominal surgeries. He had a 30% death rate, and of course he did not have a single cure, but was allowed to continue for 30 years. It was truly a barbaric time.

The 19th C. was really an explosive time of learning & new knowledge in medicine as well as other fields, due in part to the industrial revolution. Sadly, many of the advances in surgery (in any century) have come out of wars & battlefield surgery. I'm thinking of Civil War surgery in this case. [WARNING: Graphic descriptions and photos may be unsettling to some.]

This whole topic (19th C. medical history) is fascinating, but it's also kind of OT. Should it be moved to another thread/forum?

Doc

Thanks for this! I took alphalipic acid capsules few yrs ago, they gave me severe burning pains in stomach "heartburn " I guess. Was also taking advil everyday dont know if this was contributing to the problem. Was so bad I had to stop taking!

I've been reading that alpha lipoic acid is contraindicated for people taking Synthroid aka levothyroxine. But the pill identification/bad combinations site I've been using for years doesn't list them as incompatible. Anyone have any thoughts?

There was one study done on animals a while back (maybe a decade or so) that cautioned about ALA and thyroid medications. Seems the rabbits (I think it was rabbits) could not convert T4 well to T3 when given high dose ALA. But that study has never been replicated or expanded or tested out in humans.

Rodent studies are only at best 60% applicable to humans. Their physiology is quite different from ours, and their dietary requirements very different also.

This was the paper... note the date... I read at another site at one point that the animals were rabbits...but I might be mistaken.
This paper is from 1991... and I'd expect someone would have tried to replicate, or prove it valid since then:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1815532

Lipoic acid didn't affect my thyroid supplementation at all. That is only my experience.

I am taking one 100 mg Stabilized R-Lipoic Acid capsule daily. I also take a synthroid tablet every a.m. Have not had any problem with the reading of my throid blood test I get every 4 -5 months. All is in the normal range.

Did find out the generic for Synthroid is not advisable. Tho ingredients are the same, the amounts are not. My Endocrinoligist originally had prescribed the Levthyroxine. Eventually, he felt this would need to be increased since blood work indicated a problem. I informed my doctor about what I had read and asked him to prescribed the Synthroid (Brand Only) for a few months. He agreed and we did another blood test after three months. This was about 4 years ago. I did not need to increase and am on the same doseage. I will use only Synthroid...No Substitution.


Gerry

Thanks, Mrs. D and Gerry. You've put my mind at ease. I do take the jenn-yoo-whine Synthroid and now have added the Lipoic, which I'll take on an empty stomach as per recommendation!

I just read if you are on Thyroid meds and take ALA, it will double your heart rate.

As you know, I tried to take Rala and gave up due to acid reflux however I have just decided to try it again and ordered it, its been probably a year since I tried it, things change, and I am hoping I can take it this time. I really want to try it since it seems to be a main staple of helping PN.

I have answered this many many times.... I cannot search right now because today is hubby's birthday.

Post 29 in this thread is one of many explanations.

Double the heart rate? If you have 60 do you really think it
would be 120 on lipoic acid?
I would like to see a link to that comment. The most common assertion is the unproved hypothyroid cause.

I reworded my post. Mostly was just stating what I read.

I have been on Thyroid Meds for 33 years and have been taking R-Lipoic Acid daily for 16 years and it has had no effect on my heart rate which is between 60 and 78 throughout the day :)

I too don't notice a difference having started the ALA a couple of weeks ago along with my synthroid.

No negative problems at all for me. I am so thankful for wonderful supplements.

Unfortunately, some of it still hasn't evolved. 50% of American dentists still fill teeth with mercury, although it has been banned in several other countries.

Remember when searching ALA...you want alpha lipoic acid to come up, not alpha linolenic acid which shares that abbreviation.

Also many scientific papers use thiotic acid as the term for alpha lipoic acid. So you will need to try that term instead.

Hi Steven
 

I just wanted to comment on what you said. I find it horrible that some dentists use mercury fillings. What is worse is they do it knowingly to a person with a compromised immune system. Before I knew about this, I was getting the mercury fillings. Also Dentists do not realize that the Root Canal is also awful as the infection stays in the tooth. This infection can grow, and effect the whole body. I also do not understand why doctors cannot communicate well with each other, when there is more than one field of medicine being addressed. Good grief there is fax and computers. ginnie:grouphug: