Update...worth a quick read, might help you
 

Hi everyone,

As some of you know, I've posted a little while ago that my PCS symptoms returning lately. For those of you who haven't read my posts, here's a quick recap:

- first concussion boxing 1.5 years ago. Second minor concussion playing hockey about 9 months after the first.
- have stopped boxing, hockey, all contact sports etc, and have been healing well, but have been dealing with nagging neck issues. Stiffness, cracking, HORRIBLE tension-like headaches when I overdo it at the gym and my neck gets bad.
- stopped all overhead exercises, seemed to help my neck
- recently (12 weeks ago) started running outside again. Symptoms of dizziness, malaise, and muscle weakness have progressively gotten worse since then. The weakness feeling, accompanied by a low level anxiety feeling is the absolute worse thing. Nobody could diagnose me. My doctor told me it was a "mono-like virus". CT, MRI, blood tests were all normal.

I was pretty much at the end of my rope. I would get better, then I would have days where I couldn't walk up the stairs. It was not a feeling I had experienced with my previous concussions. Those were more headaches, dizziness, fatigue. I could deal with that. This feeling was different. I never felt tired, but I was unable to do anything when it got back. I was EXTREMELY irritable. My wife was having a really hard time dealing with it.

I found a concussion/sports rehab clinic in my area last week and thought I would give it a try. So I went to the clinic and told the therapist (who was also the owner) my whole history. Right away he pulls out a book and shows me exactly whats wrong. Apparently with concussions, especially ones where you get hit on the side of the head (like the punch I took) and your head snaps to the side, the C1 vertebrae twists and gets stuck. There are 2 capillaries that run alongside the C1 that feed the brain with blood. These become tightened and bloodflow is restricted. Because my neck was never treated initially, I've never really been able to recover from my initial concussion. Which is why the second one happened so easily and why running has set off my symptoms again. He showed me my neck mobility to one side, which was fine, and then the other side my neck wouldnt move at all how it should have. We then corrected the turned vertebrae by holding my head at a certain angle and using my eye muscles (they control the small muscles attached to the C1 vertebrae....unbelievable) and my neck was immediately better. I felt REALLY woozy after, like I was drunk. He said its because the blood is flowing into the brain properly and my brain isnt used to it. It needs to learn how to regulate it. A few weeks ago, I actually went for a massage. The massage therapist focused on my neck the whole time. Afterwards, I could barely walk. I felt like I was HAMMERED. Apparently she had loosened things up in my neck and got the blood flowing properly as the athletic therapist did.

I was pretty much giggling during the appointment because I was so relieved someone was finally able to tell me what was wrong and how to fix it. I am slowly feeling better day by day, and he said I will recover completely eventually, as long as I ease back into exercise very slowly. Unbelievable. Apparently this guy sits on the Canadian national board for mild traumatic brain injury, and works with hockey canada a lot about concussions.

I just wanted to share my story with everyone and I sincerely hope this helps some of you with neck issues to understand what may be the problem. If anyone is in the Toronto area and would like to go to this clinic please let me know and I will provide details.

I am going back tomorrow for a follow up assessment. Will let everyone know if anything comes out of it.

Take care,

Bas

Wow congrats..thanks for taking the time and sharing. Good information

Good luck with your running,

Can you let me know who it is? Sounds interesting.

Wow! That's incredible... Good for you!

Wow Bas!

How exciting for you! I have a lot of dizziness along with the 'usual' PCS symptoms and I start Rehab on Wednesday. I will be sure to ask them about checking my neck.

.
 

Hi everyone,

Thank you for the kind words.

On Monday I felt like a normal, young, energetic man again for the first time in 3 months. I went back to the clinic and had some more massage work done on my neck. I was very dizzy and out of it that night, and am still feeling the effects a little bit today, but that happened last time, so I'm not too worried. I hope it just gets better from here on out.

For anyone interested, the clinic is called "Upper Canada Sports Medicine Clinic". The owner and head therapist is Drew Laskoski. He is fantastic. He is very involved in concussion research, and I feel that he is definitely a leader in the field. I strongly encourage anyone in the Toronto area to check it out. I don't think you will be disappointed.

Will provide updates myself, and I hope to post more on this board to help out others once I'm back to feeling like myself again :)

Take care,

Bas

Upper Canada Sports Medicine Clinic
Drew Laskoski
Address: 130 Davis Dr, Newmarket, ON L3Y 2N1
Phone: (905) 853-4220

Between your boxing concussion and hockey concussion, were you experiencing symptoms? I'm wondering whether I can have a neck issue.

Bas19. Thanks so much for your post. I also ate a left hook in sparring back in June. Going to get my neck checked out today. Again, thanks.

Where do I find good neck specialists?

This is remarkable. I'm having similar symptoms to what you describe and a lot of neck issues, especially when running. I'm having a hard time understanding what the doctor did to you. Could you please offer examples please? Is it something that a chiropractor could do? Or maybe even myself?

Thank you so much

JohnZ: my boxing concussion symptoms lasted about 8 months. I was completely fine afterwards (except for my neck stiffness, tension headaches, etc) until my hockey concussion. The hockey concussion was very minor, the symptoms subsided in a few days. After that, everything was fine until I started running a few months ago. Then these new symptoms emerged.

With my original two concussions I had all the typical symptoms. Nausea, dizziness, tiredness, vision issues, etc. But these new symptoms from running were/are very different. Its very hard to describe...its a mix between anxiety, the super crappy feeling you get before you're about to get sick, and muscle weakness. But I was never tired. That's what messed me up so much. I started thinking I was depressed or had anxiety or just down in the dumps. I couldnt even take my dog for a walk. I just wanted to go home. I was sooooo irritable.

Symptoms are much better since the neck treatment. I feel that things are returning to normal, and any symptoms I feel now are my body just adjusting to the change in blood flow to my brain. I tried 1 set of pushups the other day and felt really dizzy all night, but not in a way that worried me. I felt fine in the morning. I emailed my therapist and he said that is my body just trying to figure things back out. Tried 1 set of pushups again tonight, so far so good.

handsup: thats unfortunate, I hope that nothing serious comes of it. I still love watching boxing, but I have to tell you that maybe you need to re-assess whether or not its worth it to box. I would obviously never have boxed if I knew it would affect my life in such an impactful and negative way for over two years. I was contemplating going on disability at work at one point a few weeks ago. I was in a really dark place.

rob: Do you have this weird feeling of weakness/malaise/anxiety? I can't find ANYTHING online about anyone else having those symptoms post concussion. I found one post from 2006 on a forum where someone described having these symptoms when he started running a few years post concussion. That is it. I really wish I could describe what this feels like better, but I struggle to put it into words.

The gentleman I see (Drew) is not a doctor, but an Athletic Therapist. I've never seen that designation until now. He really seems to be a leader in the field, so I very much doubt that all Athletic Therapists would know what he knows.

The first treatment was to put my C1 back into proper position. He called it something like "muscle energy" technique; i.e. using my own muscles to move the C1. Chiropractors can adjust this manually, but he told me there are over 170 reported cases of tragic outcomes (patients going blind, severing nerves, severing arteries, etc) from this sort of manipulation. I would be VERY cautious about letting any chiro touch your neck.

The only way I can describe it is that he held my head at a certain position and told me to focus my eyes all the way to the left. We did this a few times, and I immediately had proper mobility in my neck afterwards.

In the second visit we really just did a lot of massage on my neck. I felt drunk again afterwards, but I am feeling better since. To be honest, I had the same feeling when I went for a massage and told the MT to focus on my neck. Maybe give that a try?

I'm guessing you are not in the Toronto area? I would look into athletic therapists in the area or try massage first and see how that works. But the problem is that I think that is a temporary fix. You might need your vertebrae adjusted, which might mean seeing a chiro. I haven't yet, but if you have time maybe google the techniques I described, maybe there are people in your area that know them.

I hope this helps. Let me know if it makes sense to you...

Take care,

Bas

bas,

We often discuss Upper Cervical Chiro benefits. These are not run of the mill chiros. They are specially trained and use gentle techniques. Your ST is over-selling the scare about chiros. In the US, MD doctors' mistakes KILL over 180,000 patients per year. The risk for chiros is very small. The low premiums of their malpractice insurance is a good example.

But, I always recommend caution about letting a chiro twist and pop your neck, especially after a concussion.

I would be more concerned about an aggressive massage therapist working on my neck.

Osteopaths also have some techniques that use the patient's own muscle force to treat the neck.

Your therapist sounds like a classically trained sports trainer / kinesiologist who likely took a weekend course on treating C-1.

You commented "Do you have this weird feeling of weakness/malaise/anxiety?" This is a very common symptom of PCS. Tell us more about your struggles and what you are doing daily. Brain fatigue is a common cause of malaise.

Bas. While I cannot wait to get back to some kind of fitness regime; pugilistic sports are now out of the question. I'll get back into grappling when the time is right, and remain a combat sports fan.

handsup: That's a good plan. Would like to know about your progress and recovery. I've tried a few times to get back to pushups and my body just isnt reacting well. Im going for walks and used the stationary bike a few times and so far so good. All the best to you.

Mark: Nice to hear from you again, hope your move went well. What makes you say this about my therapist? Is some of the information he provided me wrong?
I know he is very involved in concussion research and frequently attends conferences and information seminars. He is involved with the ThinkFirst initiative in Canada as well, regarding concussions and sports.

The last time I went back to him and he massaged my neck I felt terrible for a few days. He is telling me that this is part of the process. On one hand I feel he is right, as my neck remains very stiff. On the other hand, I cant imagine that being out of commission for a few days after a neck massage is a good thing for me. Im also very wary of going for massage now. I dont want any further damage to my neck.

Regarding my progress and daily activities, I am now starting to feel like myself again. I last saw him on the 16th, and it took about 5 days to get over feeling crappy. This past weekend and this week are the first string of days where Ive actually felt normal. He told me to start trying to get back into my fitness routine, but slowly. Like I said I tried a set of 8 pushups, which is very easy for me, and Ive not reacted well to it, so Ive stopped. I go for walks and just started using a stationary bike a few days ago and I seem to be ok with both. I feel like its the increased pressure of lifting weights (even light weights) or doing pushups that my body cant handle at the moment. I am going to work everyday, and when have my crappy days, Im not very productive at all. When I feel fine like I do now, things are completely normal at work. FYI I am a business analyst, and my job involves me sitting in front of the computer all day and crunching numbers. It is a pretty technical job and can be very stressful and taxing at times.

I want to stick with the bike and walking for now, but I would love to get back into pushups and some light weight lifting. Not sure I can though at the moment. I suppose the thing to do is try it again in a week or so. I've been physically active my whole life, so this has been a very frustrating time for me.

I also wanted to add that I've figured out a better way to describe this malaise/weakness/irritable feeling I've been dealing with. If you think of the feeling where you hold your breath for a long time, the feeling right before you start breathing again is how I feel....constantly. It's as if my body is not using the oxygen im breathing in. Imagine someone trying to talk to you when youve held your breath for over a minute. Thats why I feel very irritable. Even if I slow my breathing and take deep breaths, the feeling wont go away until Ive rested for a few days and the symptoms subside.

Just wondering if anyone has felt anything like that before or heard or someone who has.

I count my blessings that things arent worse, from reading this forum there are a lot of people with a lot worse problems than I have due to their concussions. I just want to get back to my normal life, that's all.