Flu Shot Reaction = ER
 

Hi All,

Just wondering if anyone has had a reaction to this year's flu shot.

Had flu shot - shot hurt like it has NEVER hurt (upper arm muscle).

My physical and verbal reaction shocked me and the Nurse Practitioner who gave it to me.

A couple of hours later, I was resting (routine afternoon rest/sometimes quick nap) and realized I was really feeling awful - extra weak - breathing affected slightly, and was having much throat clearing. (This symptom was one of initial MG symptoms, after the initial eye droop and has been fairly well controlled for years).

Then, I realized that my left arm had become extremely weak and I could not pick it up - I was sitting in recliner. And I had pain in arm = shooting pain down the arm.

Called pharmacy where I got the shot. NP called me back, said flu shot should not do that, that my speech was slurred and to call 911. Possible stroke symptoms she casually mentioned to me.

Well I knew I was very ill. Have gone to ER and subsequently hospitalized for MG crisis 2 times over the years --- but this was different.

Called 911 - my vitals were fine, just a little bit of high BP and higher heart rate. However, my droopy left eye (almost closed), and dropping mouth and body weakness (extra weak left arm) - DID seem to highly impress the EMT's. :eek:

Folks: We MG'ers can look like stroke victims with our infamous eye droop. :winky:


Fast forward with a quick ride to ER.

Triaged - and eventually given IV solumedrol. My regular neuro (of course) was not on call - but he certainly heard from me the next day. :mad:

LOL - :hug: he can hide - but he can't get away.

Obviously, I was not happy and he was not very happy either about this situation.

Anyway, I was finally discharged 7 hours later.

Eye droop had lifted, gagging (choking on saliva) stopped, general weakness better, breathing better, all good except for left arm where the FLU SHOT was given.

Left arm weakness is now better - after a few days home. But it still is not the same as my right arm.

Neuro has amped the NOT SO BELOVED prednisone up to 30 mg a day (had been slowly reducing and was down to 10 mg a day).

Neuro was/is quite puzzled about this. Says perhaps NP hit a really bad area in that muscle with the shot and the extreme muscle pain (trust me, it was a 12 on a scale of 10), and could have triggered this episode.

MG can be exacerbated by many things. Who knows? He doesn't. I doubt that anyone will ever REALLY know why I reacted so strongly.

He said to ask my Internal Med doc to send report to CDC, as they track adverse reactions to flu shots, etc.

I have had a set-back but am getting better.

This post is not made to scare people with MG - about flu shots. If your doc says to get one - get one.

Now, if my doc wants me to get one next year, I have to admit, that I am going to have to think twice ..... or maybe three times about playing that not so little gambling game.

Note that I have had flu shots many, many times since DX'd. No reaction, hardly any pain except for the initial stick.

But I am just wondering if anyone else has had a reaction to the flu shot?

The "literature" out there (online) about MG and flu shots generally advocates flu shots for those with MG. Including the MGFA.

I have been having a rough time lately with MG - hotter and more humid than usual here in CA and greater than usual personal stress, and reduction of daily prednisone dosage. Perhaps something in this new strain of flu shot was enough to push me over?


And now for the good news:

At least I did not go into myasthenia crisis.

Just a huge exacerbation.

Thanks for listening.

p.s. Wow, sorry for long post. It's the PREDNISONE.:cool:

That sounds bad. Sorry that happened. Did anyone explain to you that the steroids you took also likely cancelled any effects from the shot? You may want to ask you PCP for a script for Tamiflu to keep at home "just in case."

Hope you're feeling better soon.

Hi, just clarifying, are you saying that the effectiveness of the flu shot may have been lost because of the high steroid treatment I received?

Hmmmmm....no one mentioned that to me.
ER = probably too busy
Neuro = probably didn't know this
Internal Med doc = haven't seen him yet

I will ask Internal Med (my PCP) doc this and ask for for script for Tamiflu.

Thanx

xoxoxo

Most doctors do not know anything about vaccines, really.

This year's flu vaccine is different...has more strains, and may have stronger adjuvants. It is the adjuvants (additives) that create the reactions.

Here is the CDC guideline:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/genrec.html
and:
http://www.immunize.org/askexperts/experts_general.asp
Usually the use of steroids after a vaccine may inactivate proper immune response, so that the vaccine may be negated.

I'd get the exact ingredients from your vaccine, and who made it, including the lot #. Every year vaccines get recalled for one reason or another (errors, contamination, and even ineffectiveness). If this new vaccine has problems, you need to
have details at hand for your own liability claims.

Many vaccines don't even put ingredients now in their inserts that come with the vaccine. But if you have the name and company you can usually find them online somewhere.

Don't assume vaccines are "safe". We have had several injuries on PN forum. Currently we have a poster damaged by the adult whooping cough booster. And we had a poster from Canada injured by H1N1 vaccine.
This is my vaccine thread:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread163906.html
Statute of limitations for vaccine injury claims is typically 2 yrs. However, that is only for the gov't bureau. The vaccine industry got an exemption from the Supreme Court to disallow liability suits from vaccine injuries. That says quite a bit IMO.

vaccine response
 

Last year, about a month after I had the fall flu shot, I had a dark pink, flat, asymmetrical spot appear on the inside of my calf. Very painful to touch, walk, etc. It faded and within 2 weeks another area cropped up down by my ankle, same leg. Went to ER because of my MG and thinking it could be blood clots. Not clots. They couldn't figure it out, sent me to rheumotology. Finding no other explanation, they thought it was erythema nodosa from the flu shot, possibly masked by the prednisone I'm on. The second area faded within a couple of weeks, and haven't had a problem since. I've decided not to get the flu shot this year.

I will be getting the flu shot this year, though I don't think it's a no-brainer, by any means.

The reason I have decided to get the shot is that I had my first noticeable symptoms of MG after taking care of five kids with H1N1 for three weeks. I started to get sick myself, and then overcame the illness, and then immediately had my first MG symptoms.

My best guess is that it was fighting off the infection that sent my immune system into hyperdrive. Like I say, it's only a guess. And even if I'm right, I have no way of knowing if my reaction was typical. So, working with all these unknowns, all I can do is speculate that the flu is more of a threat to me personally than the shot is--especially because I'm on Imuran and Prednisone. But I will definitely get the killed virus (shot) and not the weakened one (nasal spray).

Abby

I took a flu shot last Friday. I had absolutely no problems with it.

People who are on immunosuppressants should probably not use any modified life vaccine like the one that is in the nasal spray flu vaccines.

flu shot
 

On October 24, 2011 I got my first flu shot. On October 26, 2011, 48 hours after the shot, my ptosis started. I had not had any other MG symptoms up to that point. The flu shot was not from a live vaccine. Coincidence or not, I won't be getting another flu shot, ever. I'm assuming MG was already present and would have surfaced at some point, but I believe the flu shot activated it. As I'm not on medications and am symptom free after my thymectomy, my Dr is leaving it up to me.

Goodness, so sorry to hear your reaction!!! I debate should I or shouldn't I get the vaccine each year.... Last year, I hesitated, but I did.. and did have an exacerbation of my symptoms.... this year, I'm planning on getting it again I think... I have a really really hard time when I get sick..


I have two small kids who get sick often due to preschool, and then I work around sick people.... sooo I will be getting exposed to it... I just debate.. is the flu itself or the vaccine worse... and then even worse case - do I have a reaction to the flu vaccine, and it still doesnt' protect me!! ahh (I hear getting IVIG can make it less effective too - anyone else heard that?) stinkin germs! :(

I get the flu vaccine every year. I am exposed to the actual flu so much that I think the benefit outweighs the risk. It is scary and sad to hear about reactions though. I had my shot last Friday and I am fine.

MG Exacerbation
 

MG is still in high gear. Greater than usual ptosis, swallowing and breathing problems continue. Walking very difficult.

Went back to neuro because of increased breathing issues, and still have weakness in left arm.

Pushed up dosage of prednisone to 50 mg a day - after a week will start decreasing. :eek: WIDE AWAKE tonight. I wonder why............

If not better - or if I get worse, then it is IVIG. Had IVIG a few years ago with first and second MG crises. Same neuro then as now.

Neuro doesn't think the flu vaccine itself caused this acute exacerbation.

He thinks I had a "bad stick" ???? - and because I have lost so much muscle in my arms (thanks to MG) -
that is why I continue to have more than usual atypical upper arm weakness.
The pain and shock of that "bad stick" is what has caused MG exacerbation, per my neuro.

Thankfully my arm's strength is returning. Slowly, but surely. Sigh.......
I was beginning to be afraid of permanent loss of strength and use of left arm.

And my neuro, I can tell, is quite perplexed about all of this.
Me too........... :confused:

Gotta take this MG stuff one day, one hour at a time. This has been too scary - getting this close to another crisis.

Wahhhhh.......

I realize had taken my "stable MG" condition for granted..........:o

I want to get stable again. And this time, I will be grateful!!!

I never get the flu shot even though they want me to each year, I take 6000IU of liquid vitamin D daily and have not had the flu for the past 4 years, MY sons take 2000IU daily and also have not had any issues, plus vitamin D (3) had a lot of health benefits. think of this simple senario in the summer when we are out in the sun ( our bodies make 10,000IU of vitamin d3 in about 30 minutes) we do not get the flu..
a soon as it gets cold and we spend more time indoors ?? and we get less sun??
You got it flu..
do a little research on google about vitamin d3 and the flu and the benefits of it.. it is not marketed as they can not make any $$$ on a vitamin..

Vitamin D
 

Hi thanks, Dave.

Indeed, I do have diagnosed low vitamin D level. Dx'd by endo who has me taking 1,000 IU of D3 daily. WOW perhaps I should increase the dosage. Lowest level was 7 - latest test was 10.

He first gave me (RX) large dose - I believe it was 50,000 IU BIG pill. Which was very difficult to swallow AND made me very VERY ill. Hence, plan B is taking smaller dosage every day. (Smaller pill also). :)

Even though I live in sunny So California. Can't take the heat generated by the rays. Also, have been "inside" much more than "outside" - due to MG. :(

Endo says common with people with autoimmune illnesses to have D3 deficiency.

My neuro didn't say much when I told him endo had placed me on D3 - it almost seemed that he was a little skeptical about my need for the D3. However, my endo is highly respected doc here in So CA - and they are colleagues at large highly rated hospital. And endo has a couple of other patients with MG - one is wife of a local doctor. I trust endo very much and will ask endo if I can/should increase dosage at next appointment.

Verdict is now out about whether this flu shot which seems to have triggered MG exacerbation is going to be effective for me this flu season (first case of flu has just been reported in nearby city). :eek:

mrsD: I did get the manufacturer (Merck) and lot number - just in case. Thanks for the insight on the flu shot......

Dave is your liquid vitamin D - D3?? Do you mind mentioning manufacturer?

Thanks again for your reply.

In the mean time, I am feeling not so sunny in sunny California.

Thankful for pillows and laptop, which allow me to get online.

Oh.....and I need to thank my cat for her healing purrrrrrssssssss.
I do believe that even felines know when their "people" - are not feeling well.

(I used to always have a dog or two in household). :D

A Normal vitamin D25 test you are defficiant if you are under 30.. if you were 7 to 10? you are way to low, my doctors want to see my monthly vit d25 tests about 70 or 80

This big pill the 50,000 iu one to be taken weekly is d2 it is not D3 that we need I get my liquid vitamin d3 on amazon.com and i take just a few drops it is in olive oil and goes down very well daily.

Liquid Vitamin D 3 - 2,000 IU per drop - 900 Servings - High Potency
by Seeking Health search that on amazon.com

Doctors almost never care to much about nutrition and common sense most of them are pushers for drug companies treating the symptoms instead of the cause..

I have a thyroid issue and for many years.. the thyroid doctor said no IODINE NONE AT ALL... well for 4 years we were upping the thyroid meds to get my levels down to normal.

No matter what he tried the lowest he could get my thyroid down to was a 30 ( normal is a 4.5)

I did a little research and found out that IODINE makes the thyroid work, i purchased centrum chewables and they had 100% usda allowance of iodine in them.

2 months later my thyroid with the SAME DOSAGE of thyroid meds was down to a 5.6 with no other dietary changes..

DR was at a loss, I said IODINE MAKES THE THYROID WORK and his statement was i thought you might have hosimotos hence why we didn't want you to have any iodine..
I always test my doctors and question everything they say and every drug they TRY to give me..

To Dave
 

Thanks, Dave for the info.

Yep, that's right, my Vit D levels were that low. I have also been dealing with gastro issues (malabsorption) which have caused me problems, including Vit D deficiency. Endo says a level 60 is what I am shooting for.

I will look into the liquid Vit D at Amazon, but will run it through my endo and gastro docs first.

You are right, many docs don't pay much attention to nutrition, vitamins, etc. Thankfully my endo and gastro docs are more "holistic" in their approach to my treatment.

Neuro is great, but very very focused on, naturally, neurological problems. He tends to want/need to quantify every variance with my MG symptoms, but as we recently found out with my problems after flu vaccine - sometimes there are no clear-cut explanations.

Sometimes I feel guilty when I go see him - I see the poor other patients he is treating, with MS and Parkinsons' Disease, etc. - and I feel like I have nothing to complain about!

That is, until MG gets whacked, and then I remember that
MG is nothing to fool around with !


My left arm is still much weaker than right arm. But has improved from my initial response to the flu shot. Thank goodness.:)

reaction to flu shot
 

Hi-I get a shot every year too. got mine last Tues. Feeling VERY tired - this started yesterday. I guess my immune system is responding to the shot. Have had this some previous years as well, though I think the reaction came about later.

Hi SoftTalker,

Just thought I'd kick in here to say I got *extremely* ill with MG symptoms after receiving travel vaccines two years ago. I do not as yet have an MG diagnosis, but I do have quite a few of the symptoms.

I am wondering about autoimmunity, "leaky gut syndrome," and poor detox pathways with regard to this issue of varying reactions to vaccines.

Have you tried the GAPS diet or another gut healing diet to heal your nutrient absorption challenges? It is challenging, for sure.. I am working on this at present myself, but have difficulty passing up on the short term gain of cookies...

Hope you feel better soon. T

A new diagnostic category for autoimmune illness caused by
adjuvants has been created:

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/sh...88&postcount=8

This does exist. The adjuvants are the additives to the vaccine to cause the patient irritation and inflammation so the immune system will react to the dead virus.

I am still not doing well.

Exacerbation continues even though my prednisone dosage has been increased. I am taking good care of myself, have added B12 to my daily vitamin/supplement mix (in addition to regular meds), keeping stress down as much as possible, meditating. Trying to do the right things.

I have become a fluffy couch potato (again) - much to my dismay. :(
I am (relatively) stable if I do nothing. Nadda..... zilch.....

But almost any muscle-using activity grounds me. Weak and very easily become extremely fatigued.

This is VERY depressing to me because 1 1/2 months ago I was in (what I believe) near remission, albeit still on meds.

Something - the flu shot or shock to my arm because the shot was extremely painful - or whatever - something is causing my MG to kick my behind.

Perhaps the flu shot has truly triggered another autoimmune illness, as mentioned in the thread above. ?????

My neuro is following me closely - and is readily available to me. Have seen him twice since my trip to ER, and he always says to call him if needed. And I have, and will again, Monday, Oct. 28, if I continue to feel this poorly.

This past week has been rough. Arm strength is better, but overall MG weakness and general stamina has plummeted. Have had on/off slurred speech, occasional shortness of breath. But not really a crisis, at least not like the two I have had in previous years.

This coming Monday morning, I plan to call my neuro (again). Perhaps I need IVIG to pull me out of exacerbation. I had IVIG several years ago when I had two crises within a relatively short time (hospitalized). Neuro is very conservative when it comes to IVIG, is as insurance approval.

But I am just NOT coming rebounding from this exacerbation, this time, and I have had a few moderate-severe exacerbations over the years.

Hate to complain. But this "fall" from a semi-remission is a hard one. Physically and emotionally.

I know I will get better. But it seems, it will be later than sooner.

I will update again.

I too received travel vaccines about 35 years ago. Within a month of receiving them I developed MG which progressed to very severe symptoms. Today I still am on immunosuppressants, large doses of Mestinon, pred and IVIG to keep this in check. I do get the inactivated flu shot each year and have never had a bad reaction - neuro feels it's better than getting the flu. Be careful with Vitamin D as was discussed on this thread - if you are prone to hypertension this can raise your BP significantly. We all walk a fine line here in knowing what we can and cannot put into our bodies.

I have not heard of Vit D causing hypertension. I would like some links where you read this, or learned this, please.

The Mayo clinic site which is a bastion of conservative supplement ideology has an article about the reverse:
Vit D deficiency "may" be connected to hypertension
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/vit...ciency/AN01925

Vitamin D TOXICITY however, may cause increased calcium levels, and this may result in hypertension in some people.
These levels are far and away higher than amounts suggested here on NT.
http://www.news-medical.net/health/V...-Overdose.aspx
1000IU D3= 25 micrograms
Most NT members I have seen are using up to 5,000IU daily.

I only know that too much Vitamin D can cause kidney or heart problems which can cause hypertension. And the thing you already mentioned; the i creased calcium levels.
But this is only if you take too much.

Anyway, loads of people who take V D have other things that lead to cause hypertension, like taking prednisone or being old.

I take 5 - 15 mcg daily.

Never heard of taking a high but save amount of V D can cause hypertension.

Where are you getting your so called facts?
I have been on 6000iu vitamin d3 for over 2 years.
My sons each take 4000iu a day
I get ivig every 2 weeks and for the first bottle
They measure your bp every 15 minutes I have never
Had high bp, actually they tell me it's very nice to see a bp that is normal. Each of us here like to share experiences but please share facts ?
Ps my new vit d3 level was just taken and im at a 57.6
Dr said with lambert eatin they want it at 70 to 90
So I may start upping my vit d3 to 7000iu a day

I did not say it is a FACT you will get high bloodpressure if you take high amounts of vitamine D. I said it could, not that it always will...
This is what my doc told me.
As in, it is a possibility. It can /may lead to, not it always leads to.
Sorry if I offended you, please continue taking it.
Just shared my experiences.