Choking on fluids
 

So I was wondering if there are any magic tricks to help when you're drowning on your on fluids?

It's one of those really scary symptoms..

you know... when you go to swallow and your brain quickly closes that pipe off and opens the airway.

When it happens I have the people around me beat my back while i bend forward to try and force it out of my lungs.. It happpens semi-frequently, but 2 different times I have inhaled far too much and have turned blue/purple from not being able to get oxygen.

One of those times was when I was working. Had 4 full grown men in shock and my manager was about to call an ambulance when I bent forward and it finally spewed out of my nose and mouth.

This happened the other day with coffee. My boyfriend said he had never seen so much fluid come out of someone's nose before. Poor thing started to cry.

Since this has happened so much I stay as calm as I possibly can when it happens and try to get the fluid out of my lungs as quickly as possible so I can breathe.

So I was just wondering what I should have my close ones prepared to do when they see this happen to me... I'm kind of thinking there is no trick and that I have been SUPER LUCKY to have come out of them. I did cough up some blood the next day.. thinking that was from the stress my lungs went through the previous day (and there was creamer in my coffee, so both coffee and milk were in my lungs)

I'm gonna be one sad ghost if I end up drowning on a beverage... :(

This is potentially extremely dangerous. You urgently need to have a barium swallow test done to find out exactly what is going on inside your throat. What to do about it will be based on those results.

If you are unable to manage even your saliva, it is an emergency, and you need to go to ER. The risk of aspirating is extremely high.

If you do not address this issue, you are at risk of not only choking/becoming hypoxic/possibly dying in a emergency situation, but also of getting aspiration pneumonia, which can be serious and require hospitalization.

As for what to do right now...stop drinking thin liquids! Stick to drinks with thicker consistencies, like smoothies or other thickened drinks. You can purchase thickeners that can be stirred into drinks to thicken them. Be sure and get enough fluids each day, which can be difficult. Try eating thick soups and such to help.

I can't stress how important being seen about this is! Please get help.

Have you spoken to your Neuro about this?

I sometimes have difficulty swallowing but have never aspirated fluids into my lungs. I believe that can cause pneumonia.

Sometimes my swallowing mechanism seems to freeze. I've learned to just be calm and wait a moment and usually I can swallow. As a result, I've started eating much slower and taking much smaller bites. Also careful with drinking water and coffee. Anything too hot or too cold seems to shock my throat and swallowing is harder.

I hope you'll speak to your doctor about this. He might have a suggestion as to what you can do but at the very least it needs to be documented in your medical records.

Lean your head down when you swallow, it opens your esophigeus
more, to let it go down. Never swallow with your head way back or
turned to the side.:hug:

I don't have a doctor to talk to them about this issue. I just was approved ssdi and medicaid the other day. So I am waiting to be accepted to a doctor.

I fear it has progressed to a dangerous point as recently, I have been choking on my saliva in my sleep which has been scary to wake up to.. choking coughing and can barely breathe.

I have a lesion in my brainstem which is what I am assuming is causing this issue.

It's somewhat heartbreaking... The brainstem is the place I have feared most to get a lesion in... and of course, I got it. It's relatively big too :(

I am also thinking the brainstem lesion is what causes those horrible episodes in my sleep.. I think that I stop breathing or my heart stops functioning, i dunno something really bad is happening in my system when I have those episodes.. they even cause my pupils to get all goofy (one really big and one really small)

I'm a mess. and I feel so bad because I scare the poop out of my boyfriend all the time.. choking, falling, severly impaired speech and walk. Geesh, why is that guy even still in the picture? CUZ IM ONE SUPER LUCKY GAL! lol

I'm usually pretty good about taking a drink, holding it in my mouth until IU know that it will go where it needs to (just because its happened so many times now) I just had no control where the coffee was being directed..

Another reason to hate MS-- I am my biggest threat to myself. :rolleyes:

I was always "my own worse enemy", even before MS.

Hope you get the Medicare Doc soon, But maybe go to the ER.
They have to treat you.:hug:

So sorry this is happening to you. I choke on my own saliva at times. I've given DH2B many scares.

Immediate things you can do is to drink thicker things and/or hot or cold things. The trick is that these things will turn on more neve endings (hot or cold receptors) so your brain interprets that you are, in fact, about to swallowing.

There are thickeners and I forget what they are called.:(

Take care,
ANN

Hello AynaDee,

I have had the choking on liquid and saliva a few times too. It is scary and frustrating for me. I have not talked to my neuro about it or gone to the ER for it but those are good suggestions. I'd love to hear what you decided to do and what they recommend. :) I wish u well. Thanks for posting.

you've gotten some great advice. it might be time to go to the ER about this.
maybe they can get you referred to a neuro in a speedier time. or, try calling the insurance you've been approved for. tell them what's happening and ask how you can get seen as quickly as possible.

i have learned to swallow with my head tilted more forward. i also had a consult by my neuro to a speech therapist who evaluated me for choking and gave me some tips for eating/drinking. but you need a neuro for that.

DON'T have anyone slap your back when you're choking. it can actually have things go deeper down. please keep us posted.

Thickened liquids and drinking through a straw as well as not tipping the head back helps prevent choking in my case. Temperature of the liquid or food seems to be a trigger. Anything near body temperature is toughest, so cool or warm/hot goes down best.

Waking up choking on your own saliva is something that you absolutely need to get checked out ASAP. Asperating fluids into the lungs to any degree, but especially to the degree and frequency that you describe is a huge concern.

Please get checked out, even if you have to go to the ER.

In my thoughts and prayers that an effective solution is found quickly. :hug:

With love, Erika

this is what my Speech therapist, ENT, neuro and gastro docs taught me to do to help with this (and yes, it is scary, freaks people out and just palin sucks).

Do not sleep on back - try preventing this by slipping a tennis ball in a pocket sewn on back of jammies or use pillows to prevent you from rolling over on your back while asleep. Side or face down sleeping helps anatomically prevent saliva choking while relaxed/sleeping.

prop up head and shoulders while sleeping (I use 2 latex pillows, others prop up the bed frame or mattress). *Make sure not to just elevate your head

Do not brush your teeth or use mouthwash just before bed, as that alone causes saliva to temporarily increase. I do my teeth right after supper and go to bed a few hours later to prevent this "wetter mouth" issue

do not eat or drink if fatigues/tired/talking/not paying attention to the fact you are drinking or eating (sounds like a small thing but actually is a big deal)

tip your chin towards your chest as you eat or drink to help make sure it goes down the correct pipe (and that the wind pipe is 'sealed off'). If you lean forward a bit it also helps greatly.

sit up wicked straight &/or use a toss pillow behind your back while eat/drinking - this makes a big difference, as it holds you up tall and a bit forward!

I also have learned that I cannot be sleepy, distracted or on auto-pilot when eating or drinking. By this I mean I cannot read & drink some coffee or watch a movie & mindlessly grab a drink - I have to consciously stop and then drink, then go back to video/book, etc.

If you choke/goes down wrong pipe: lean forward from your waist while straightening back/spine and calm down. Coughing helps; back blows can sometimes help & sometimes make it much worse. For food stuck part way down: sometimes eating another bite or drinking will help push it down (but could be a big problem if food/pill is 100% lodged, so be careful -you will learn what works & when)

As long as you can make noise or cough: try to explain to friends/coworkers that while scary they should let you alone. "Helping" you can make it much worse or distract you from being able to relax and cough it up.

As odd as it sounds, I have grown used to choking. Learning to stay calm, knowing it should get better has helped most of all. My body doesn't spasm as badly which helps me dislodge or cough it all out.

Have your friend/spouse etc know the proper heimlich technique. You need to learn the "I'm choking" sign {grasp throat area with both hands}. If you cannot speak and are in danger - call 911. Even if you cannot talk to dispatcher - they will show up (do not hang up phone just because you cannot talk)

Good luck and know you are not alone :hug: *sorry so long but hope one or more tips may help, especially until you can get to medical help

Oh goodness...you're experiencing a lot of what many of us have gone through. It's frightening when you choke-it happens with no warning!

I've had a swallow study, but of course I wasn't experiencing the problem when I was tested. It seems to occur in batches for me...

I learned to tip my head down and try not to drink real cold drinks (most of the time;)).

Your sleep problems are another issue. Time to see a neuro with sleep disorder subspecialty-my neuro is certified in this. I use a CPAP now...helps tremendously with all those problems.

You really need to let the neuro know about all of this. Make sure you're keeping up your symptom journal!!

And let us know how you're doing:hug::hug:

Thank you all so very much! I feel I've definitely learned some useful tips!

I had no clue about pattig the back making it worse!

The time I choked at work I was remaining as calm as possible but couldn't even force a breath, even after remaining calm. That was the scariest of all.

When I take a drink I hold it until my body is ready to swallow.. tilting the head forward has definitely helped making it easier and not as scary.

I still haven't gone to the er. Since its not happening right now, I feel they'll think im crazy.

I haven't been able to sleep on my back since 09. I get horrible spins and brain pressure so i sleep on my side and belly. I don't even understand how I choke on my saliva while in that position.

Also, my opthamologist (who is frickin amazing and wicked smart) thinks the episodes that I am having has something to do with autonomic response.

I am definitely experiencing symptoms of having both systems affected.. how do they test your autonomic response system?

So far with your helpful tips I've only choked a little on a drink once but was able to work it out super quick, wasn't even scary.

I am mildly concerned over the autonomic stuff as those are.dangerous/life threatening symptoms that I would like to stray from. Plus the whole feeling fine then all of a sudden I can't walk right, talk right, look straight, insides feeling faint episodes are getting real old. The feeling inside me as it happens is horrid. I feel like they put a massive stress on my system. They're brief only lasting for about 30 sec to a minute, but they happen 75-100 times a day. The numbness in my abdomen is finally starting to subside.. still there but not near as bad so ill take it! :D

I got a "suspected diagnosis" of autonomic neuropathy earlier this year because these symptoms all showed up or became more pronounced at the same time. The usual battery of cardiac and digestive tests didn't come up with anything conclusive, so apparently, like with MS, it is a diagnosis made through exclusion.

I pulled the plug on further testing because the procedures that had been done by then proved to be hard on the body and were making things worse. Further tests would have involved more invasive stuff, so I quit while I was ahead :winky:.

Here's some of the symptoms and some of the stuff that the tests showed:

Delayed/slow gastric emptying & intestinal movement (Everything seemed to be OK on endoscopy/colonoscopy tissue -wise; and the colon/bowel is unaffected).

A previous barium follow through showed some stomach emptying delay, slow movement through most of the intestine; but also rapid movement in some parts; as well as intestinal distension near the colon.
Now some of these symptoms have apparently become more pronounced.

(At times - not consistent)
Poor digestion; unaltered food particles in stool (TMI?)
Delayed bladder emptying and bladder distention (>1 litre)
Heart rate dipping to below 40 while sleeping
Heart rate not increasing sufficiently upon exertion
Heart skips a few beats
Slow heart rate (usually < 60 when awake)
Low blood pressure and not rising sufficiently upon exertion (average is <100/55)
Poor gag reflex; aspirating food, fluids and saliva
Problems swallowing solids (esophagus not working properly so food doesn't go all the way down)
Little saliva/tear production; negative for Sjogrens
Low adrenal function; though kidneys unaffected and better than average

Autonomic neuropathy is most common in diabetics but can also be caused by MS affecting the Vagus nerve which supplies most of the abdominal/thoracic organs. Brain stem lesions could be a cause as well but you'd need to check with a neuro on that (IDK).

I know that this all sounds nasty but as with MS symptoms, these too can be accommodated for. I'm still learning how to do that in some ways, but day by day, am getting the hang of it :).

Hope that you get some answers and some solutions as well.

With love, Erika

i wonder what your VS's are (vital signs); BP (blood pressure), HR (heart rate) RR (respirations). especially your BP. i would strongly encourage you to see your pcp or neuro about these sx's. they are concerning to me.

you sound like you're very level headed and a good problem solver.
keep us posted.

This sounds so very severe. I've not had anything that bad in the swallowing department. Of all the suggestions offered, these are the ones I've used to avoid these situations. Eat slowly. Tilt head forward while eating. Most importantly, focus on your eating, which is a challenge in a social situation where you are expected to be conversing with others or at least listening. Since your boyfriend knows about the difficulty, you can talk less when eating with him.
Erika mentions slow emptying of food from gastric tract. I have not had trouble with that since I have been on magnesium for spasms. Magnesium does cause more mobility, sometimes too much, but too much is better than too little.
Waking up with the secretions choking you is the one I would not know how to handle, and it seems the neuro should be consulted as soon as possible. I would not hesitate to go to the ER even between bouts until insurance covers your doctor visits better. I do not think they would consider this superfluous. I know my ER here would not, would recognize it as a major problem. i don't know what they would do for it, as I have not had that serious a choking episode. Had one recently and it was from eating too fast, from being in a hurry.