Flu Shot
 

Is anyone afraid to get a flu shot? I am. I used to always get one until I got RSD. Now I afraid of spread. Has anyone else gotten one after getting RSD and been okay? I'd like to get one, but don't know if I should because of this. :confused:

I personally would NOT get a flu shot. Not because I fear spread so much as I know my immune system is weakened already and in a flu shot you are actually being exposed to the virus itself, thus increasing the chances/risk that you could end up with it after the injection. In this case (at least for me) the benefit does not outweigh the risk.

JMO,
Tessa

Hi Renee! I get the flu shot every year and have for many years. It hasn't caused any spread or problems for me. I am more afraid of getting the flu again then I am of the shot causing spread.

I have always gotten the flu shot with no problems. I too do not want to get the flu again. Also it is NOT a live virus- that is so false.

Thanks Edever for your advice, but I agree with Tessa that a virus, live or not, is a risk that I don't want to take a chance on getting sick from. Being that our immune systems are so compromised because of our rsd, I'd rather endure the flu if I unfortunately happen to get, than take a chance on getting rsd spread from an injection or sick from the virus that it would be putting into my body.
This is just my opinion too. Thanks again though for your kindness and advice.
Take Good Care of Yourself and I hope you have a good night.

Several years ago, there were two strains for the flu going around. I had already gotten the flu shot but it only covered one strain...I got the other strain of the flu. I seriously thought I was gonna die. My husband said I looked like death. I NEVER want to go thru that again. They (medical professionals) have said over and over that the flu shot cannot make you sick. If you get the flu shortly after getting the shot, that means you were already exposed to it. Having a compromised immune system could make it harder to get over the flu.

Completely your choice though :)

I understand your point of view, but my trust in medical professionals these days is very low. (That's not to say all of them.) (I have drs and lawyers in my family so I need to make this clear so that they don't get angry with me!) The medical professionals I had said that I should try accupunture, and after having those needles put in my body, my rsd spread to all of my limbs. When I told my drs about this, they said nothing. I just got blank stares. To me, that was inexcusable. Anyway, I appreciate your input too. I just have had too many bad experiences with drs and am too afraid to take the chance of spread. Thanks again though. And I hope you have a good night too.

I totally understand about losing faith in medical professionals. I have been thru my share of complete idiot drs. When I hurt my hand in 2009, it took a year and 14 drs to get a correct diagnosis and one to finally help me...now he has turned into a jerk. But, I love my PCP. She is wonderful and caring. I get the flu shot from her or my pharmacists. My pharmacists are awesome, they totally get what is going on with me and are so in tune with my many allergies (to everything).

I find it hard to believe that acupuncture is recommended for rsd pain. Really?? When a needle can cause spread...no thank you! I have read on here where many people have benefited from acupuncture...I am not willing to try it.

My pm dr recommended accupunture and so I went to one and explained my rsd to her and she said she understood what it was and it was okay to put pins in my body even my rsd arm. After four painful visits with her my rsd spread to all my limbs in a matter of 2-4 weeks. I stopped going to her and told my pm dr.
They said that she probably shouldn't have put needles in my rsd arm. I told them that I wished they told me that before I went to her and that I thought she knew what she was doing (since she told me as much). That's when I got the blank stare. I'll never do it again. I know a nurse that said she had rsd and an accupunturist helped her go into remission, but he stayed away from her rsd area. Unfortunately, he was not covered my my insurance. Anyway, I do like my pharmacist, so I'll check with him. And I do like some of my drs, just not the ones who made life changing mistakes with my health. I know people make mistakes, but I didn't get even as much as an apology or any sign of concern from them. That would have meant so much to me. It would have made me feel more like a human being and not just a statistic.
Sorry, I still have to work through these angry feelings I have towards some of my drs with the help of my psychiatrist. It's hard and I don't mean to sound so full of rage to all of you. I know you're just trying to help, and I hope you don't take what I say personally. It's not you. Thanks again for your advice again and I will check with my pharmacist. He is awesome. Hope you have a great night Nanc.:)

Flu Shots
 

Thanks for your advice. I'll check on this intranasal injection with my gp and pharmacist, since I don't have asthma. Thanks again for your kindness. Take Care.:hug:

Renee, I too have been getting a flu shot every year, but only since I have had the RSD. My doctors have told me that it's not worth the risk of getting the flu. So I've had the flu shot for ten years now. Again as others have said, it is not a live vaccine, so you will not get any form of the flu from the vaccine. I do get a small swollen, bruised feeling in the area of the injection, but nothing else. Last year my doctor suggested a pneumonia vaccination also and I got one.

I can tell you too that after my first experience getting some sort of crud during the winter months, I will absolutely always get that flu shot. Twice my husband has gotten sick at work, but only a bad cold. The first time he brought it home, I got it and with me it morphed into pleurisy. I was sick for over 8 weeks and on antibiotics and that was a while new kind of pain. After that we had strict rules, no touching, no kissings, no contact, when someone he works with gets sick. Unfortunately it did happen again in the early part of this year. It was a bad cold again and before he even felt it I told him that I was getting sick. Then I found out the guy behind him was sick. He felt bad for two weeks and I could hardly move, was on the couch for again practically two months, congestion made it so hard to breathe. It's not worth getting creepy stuff that goes around. I stay out of public during flu season as much as possible. I ALWAYS use those sanitary wipes for the grocery cart . If I notice anyone in public sniffle or coughing I absolutely get as far away from them as possible. It is not worth it. I never got seasonal illnesses before this. Hay fever yes, but colds and flu, never. I've only gotten cooties twice now since RSD and what gets spread to me has both times become worse and stayed a lot longer than it does with healthy people.

Renee, I should also clarify that I am 52 and I am diabetic, two more reasons that it makes sense for me to get those vaccinations. You sound like you are a lot younger, in my head at least, when I read your posts, you are a lot younger and more vibrant than I am. LOL! So, that too might be a consideration, your age and history with seasonal cooties. But, 10 flu, one pneumonia, 1 typhoid, 3 rounds of hep A & B and no spread caused, no bad experiences or repercussions for me. :D Good luck, Sylvia

I got my flu shot 2 weeks ago and I wasn't worried about spread, but my RSD is in my arms, and I unfortunately had to get it in my worse arm and it caused a HUGE flair up! I was in so much pain! So I would either recommend getting the nasal spray flu vaccination (however that one IS a LIVE virus) or see if the Dr can give it in an area not affected. I rather get the flu vaccine verses getting the actual flu because I know I will be 10x sick because my body just cant handle very much anymore.

I've been following this thread with interest...:winky:

Anyone with a compromised immune system is advised to get the flu shot precisely because any risk (very small) from the shot itself is tiny in comparison to the serious and life-threatening risks of flu. I'm not try to scare anyone, but every year for thousands of people the flu is fatal. With the CRPS having such a terrible toll on our bodies generally, and having that auto-immune component, it just makes sense. And if we can have it nasally then that important needle stick risk goes...

Just my opinion, naturally lol :D

I wanted to add though, I use a thing called Vicks First Defence - its a nasal spray you take at the first sign of cold symptoms, and it has honestly saved me from more colds than I can count. if I start having that slight sore throat or scratchy feeling at the back of my nose I take a couple of sprays and quite often have to do no more. Sometimes I take it for a couple of days, but generally that's rare. I used to get quite a lot of colds, and they really laid me low once I'd started the CRPS, I just couldnt deal with it all. I do still get the odd one, but maybe one or two a year, instead of ten! It's made with plant ingredients and although there's a slight stinging feeling in your nose, that only lasts about ten seconds max. I always recommend it, my mum started using it too and has far less illness through the winter.

I don't work for Vicks lol! Just something that actually has made a big difference to my winters :) In a world of pharmacological 'it'll work if you're lucky' items, I give praise where it's due!!

Bram.

I always get the flu shot. Had strain a influenza about 15 years ago and ended up in the hospital.

Ask for the "intradermal" needle. It is much smaller (90% smaller) than the standard needle. First made available last year and should be widely available this flu season. It is injected into the skin instead of the muscle.

A great option for those of us with CRPS.

Food for thought: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...rease-flu.aspx

It is something to think about. Please don't take offense to this Tessa, but I think Dr. Mercola is a quack. Not because of this story, but because of things he has done over the years, claims he has made, etc.

I don't take offense at all. It was he who published the article but, the studies behind the information did not come from that doctor. I'm just of the thought that many things are done to save a dollar and though the effort to might seem innocent enough on its face, there are countless reasons why it wouldn't be public knowledge on how this vaccine might adversely affect those that are suffering from long term health issues. Even a small % of mortality would save insurance companies millions of dollars annually. We see it every day in our own illness where things that could potentially help are denied in order to save a dollar. Again, it is just something worth thinking about. Not saying I wholly agree but, the information is thought provoking either way.

Here is something straight from the CDC site:

"Unfortunately, some people can get infected with an influenza vaccine virus despite getting vaccinated. Protection provided by influenza vaccination can vary widely, based in part on health and age factors of the person getting vaccinated. In general, the flu vaccine works best among young healthy adults and older children. Some older people and people with certain chronic illnesses may develop less immunity after vaccination. However, even among people who tend to respond less well to vaccination, the flu vaccine can still help prevent influenza. Vaccination is particularly important for people at high risk of serious flu-related complications and for close contacts of high-risk people."

Makes me think of the MMR vaccination in the UK.....loads of parents chose NOT to vaccinate their kids because of the negative press about the MMR vaccine. Lots of unvaccinated children now getting measles, mumps and rubella because of it, and passing it on to their friends - and some of those kids develop it badly and have nasty reactions, pass it to their children etc. Now they are lining up for it again, and there's a big push to get kids safe again. Turned out actually the risks of the vaccination WERE a lot less (as a population) than crossing fingers and hoping.

I'm not saying 'you've got to have the flu shot', but there are always two opposing points of view on these things....and pretty often the scientists are right.

Bram.

I've never gotten a flu shot, ever. I usually end up with a head cold, not the flu. My colds used to turn into bronchitis, but I've been good about treating them so they don't do that now. Last winter was one of the first in a while that I had the flu, which I got from my daughter who has an awesome immune system and rarely gets sick. I remember blocking off the kitchen doorway and boiling eucalyptus leaves for hours. I wonder if that's because the CRPS had started? It took much longer to get over it then it took my DD.

All last Winter I did try to stay away from sick people. I knew my immune system was weakened, just didn't know why yet. I'll have to highly consider the flu shot this year.

I wasn't saying that either.. I was just posting my view and opinion which I should be free to do. And yes scientists are right but pharmaceutical companies injury/kill thousands of people every day because either the drug was not fully investigated or the % of people that it could significantly harm seemed less important than those it supposedly would help. Being open to all information is how we individually come to our own decisions at least that is how I do.

Not to mention in the situation you were speaking of it makes much more sense.. children go to school together and sit in small class rooms with often poor ventilation for many hours a day. They also touch each other, toys and games that don't often get washed, they don't always wash their hands or cover their mouths when they cough, sneeze etc., that would lead to a higher risk of germ spread and it makes sense to vaccinate with that in mind. But.. in situations where the risk is much less (like people who spend a majority of time at home) or with the same people and don't have compromised lungs then it would be prudent to consider the whole picture before choosing to do it or not.

Again it was just my opinion or a voice from the other side as you pointed out.

Whooooooaa. I wasn't having a go at you. I was just making it clear that my post wasn't meant to be interpreted as a 100% 'I believe the flu shot is the only choice'. Of course docs and pharma companies have an agenda. And of course the MMR situation is different.

I've never had a go at anyone on these boards, because we are all in the same boat and I could never be aggressive about a difference of opinion.

Bram.

I wasn't having a go at you either. Just responding to your message directed toward my post. Your opinion is clear but I feel strongly that offering a live vaccine (nasally) is a risky scenario for some individuals. I think it is better to think about our individual exposure as well as the risk of exposure to others and personal circumstances before choosing. The CDC makes it very clear that especially the live vaccine(which is the nasal type) should only be given to healthy individuals from 2-49 that right there tells me caution is warranted. "This form of the vaccine is given through the nose and is recommended for healthy children and adults, aged 2 to 49 years"
The injected vaccine only prevents certain strains and does not make one immune to all.

The thousands of people who die every year (which is sad) is compromised more so sadly by the aging population living in nursing homes, hospitals, assisted living and the very young who have not had a chance to build the antibodies. It is much less likely (unless of course you live and work with those who are ill, use public transportation etc.,) for you to die of having had the flu.

I am not for it or against it - I just don't personally believe everyone needs to have it.

At the risk of stepping into an increasingly heated exchange, I think its important to just be aware that the nasal version of the vaccine is made from a live virus that is so extensively weakened that it isn't capable of causing flu. Like the injected version, it can't cause flu.

Crumbs :confused:. I'm going to step out here. I just put forward a comment into the conversation in which I clearly said that I wasn't saying everyone had to have the jab. I've also agreed that there are mistakes and agendas and risks. I was just making the comparison with the MMR story, that's all.

We all make our own decisions in the end. I suppose on reflection I do think the risk of the jab or nasal application is less than the risk of the flu itself, but I never said everyone should think like me, or think I'm right.

I thought I was being careful and just joining in. Of course I never meant to offend. I still don't think I did :(

Bram.

No offense to anyone but if it were true that the vaccine was so weakened then why can someone who has received the nasal version spread the virus? And why can't pregnant or postpartum women have it?

Quoted from the CDC
Can people receiving the nasal spray flu vaccine pass the vaccine viruses to others?
Yes, but its rare. (CRPS is supposedly rare too..)

Linkout to CDC: http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/nasalspray.htm

I didn't take the posts as anyone trying to jab the other. Obviously we all have our opinions and we all are entitled to them. Sometimes the posts or opinions come across a little too strong. So, please be aware of how you are saying what you want to say. We need to support each other, not offend each other. Everyone can voice their opinions and the person asking the initial question can make their decision.

It is exceptionally risky for any pharma co to carry out any clinical trials of any drug in pregnant women. The ability to obtain insurance against the liabilities that arise if something affects unborn foetuses is minimal/nil. Post-thalidomide, drug companies just won't take the risk of carrying out clinical trials in pregnant women. The liabilities can be massive when you add up the lifetime costs of care for a large number of affected individuals with reasonable life expectancy. Because nobody is prepared to risk financial and reputation all suicide carrying out trials in pregnant women, however minuscule the perceived risk is, such medications are never licensed or approved for use in pregnant women. That isn't the case with some older medications or some injectable vaccinations which are manufactured from deal viruses. It is a commercial issue rather than one relating to the vaccine. I have some experience with clinical trials regulation.

As far as transfer of the virus is concerned, need to understand the difference between virus shedding/transfer and actually infecting someone else with flu. These are worlds apart and what the document you referred to explains is that whilst evidence of attenuated virus shedding and subsequent transfer to another person has been recorded, they have not seen any evidence of a vaccinated individual "infecting" another person with the flu virus and than person becoming symptomatic as a result. Essentially what they are able to pick up is evidence that the attenuated virus cells are detectable by lab testing in the body of another person.

Further down in that same document you referred to it does explain that you cannot get flu from the attenuated nasal vaccine and it also explains why. I appreciate that you have very firm views about vaccines and I am merely answering the questions that you asked in (what seems to be a slightly confrontational way) but I am not trying to influence your opinion.

My husband thinks I should stay away from the nasal version.
I'm so confused!
Anyway, thanks for all of your advice.
I guess I have alot of thinking to do.
Take care.

I respect your opinion and the opinion of others. The best way to get opinions is to hear from many. In regards to the article..that is not how I interpreted it. It is also not how it was explained to my MIL just days ago, when I took her to get a checkup and discuss the possibility of a flu vaccine. They won't even give you the choice if you are over 49 or have had a serious illness in the past year. And they asked about the age and health of others in the household specifically regarding young children. The way it was explained was that no deaths have been reported due to the vaccine being transmitted to an un-vaccinated individual but it has been transmitted..just no serious illness was reported. That same could be said for someone contracting the flu.. not everyone dies from it or has serious complications like pneumonia from it.

Regarding pregnant women - this is incorrect pregnant women are encouraged to get the flu shot by the CDC. The flu shot does NOT contain the live virus (unlike the nasal vaccine) and so you cannot get the influenza virus from it.

Yes, my views are somewhat firm as are the views of others and that is respected. Confrontational wasn't my intention but my writing style is generally to the point and often lacks fluff. If I am judged harshly by one post then that is sad because I've offered many posts both publicly and privately that was more than encouraging. So if I offended someone with my opinion I am sorry. I am not sorry for sharing my thoughts and understandings as I think it is important just as others views/thoughts are. I don't expect anyone to agree but I hope it would provoke thought and personal research. Just like most everything posted in this forum.. if we relied upon only one view or story we would all be lost.

I too afraid to get the nasal vaccine. I"m no dr but any kind of live virus scares me. I'm still not sure I'm getting the injection with the dead virus, but after having such a tough time getting over colds since I've had rsd, I may consider it now. As long as it's not a live virus. That's just my gut speaking. My husband is not a dr either, but has worked in the healthcare industry for over 30 years and is also diabetic, and he doesn't even want to get any flu vaccine anymore. I may try to convince him to get the vaccine that does not have the live virus. My son was always told by his pediatricians and drs that he didn't need it either. I wonder if he should get one now. He's 20 but I have to check with his dr again. Thanks again for all of your advice.
Take care.

With respect, you have completely misunderstood what I said about the use of the nasal vaccine in pregnant women. My comments related only to the attenuated virus which constitutes the nasal vaccine, not to the injected vaccine which I am well aware is given to pregnant women and indeed, is positively recommended for pregnant women.

As has previously been said, it is those with compromised immune systems or underlying medical conditions who benefit most from flu vaccination. They have the greatest risk of death and severe complications from flu which is not a trivial illness, especially in someone with an underlying medical condition or weakened immunity. Its worth remembering the various pandemic flu episodes that have killed millions across the globe if ever a reminder were needed that it isn't trivial.

As antibiotic resistance becomes an increasing problem, it will become more difficult to treat the secondary complications of flu and it may, again, become a much bigger killer in future. Globally, we have currently got no solutions for antibiotic resistance - the world is sleepwalking into an era where simple bacterial infections will again kill people like they did before the discovery of penicillin. It takes on average a minimum of 15 years to get a new drug or compound to market and the number of new compounds licensed annually by the FDA and the European equivalent is tiny - in the teens. Most of those licenses are not for truly novel compounds - they are just improved versions of drugs that already exist.

People can slam big pharmaceutical companies and maintain all kinds of unfounded conspiracy theories but at the end of the day, it's those pharma companies we all have to rely on to come up with the new generation of drugs to replace antibiotics. It's also those same pharma companies which have made the drugs that most of us rely on for whatever bit of minimal symptom relief we can get from medication. I for one, am happy to accept all of the failings of the clinical trial system because even the marginal benefit I get from my prescription medications far outweighs the risks or concerns I have about the interests of individual companies or the imperfect system.

No medic or scientist will ever suggest that a vaccine is fail-safe or fully effective and the flu vaccine is always limited in terms of the number and type of flu strains that it will protect against in any given year. It is just another risk management strategy that people can choose to adopt or reject. Personally, I will be going to get mine done shortly, as always. I will have it done by normal injection even though I have an extremely robust and healthy immune system and CRPS symptoms that affect all of my body. There is as good as zero risk and everything to gain.

It is easy not be concerned with the negative impact on a seemingly small % of people UNTIL that small % includes you or someone you love.

Renee
The injected flu vaccine is absolutely 100% not live. It will not give you flu. I don't know what other information you and especially your husband could be directed to in order to convince you both of this. The pharmaceutical industry simply couldn't "lie" about this - given that these vaccines are manufactured by multiple companies and administered to hundreds of millions of people every year all over globe, if it turned out that it was even the tiniest bit alive, this would be quickly discovered! I guess I don't understand the fear you have of an attenuated (weakened) live virus vaccine either. It isn't going to infect you with flu or anything else. What is it that you are worried about?

Unless your son is a healthcare worker, has a compromised immune system, or has one of the other myriad of medical conditions that are indicated for vaccination (or he is in close day to day contact with someone who is in one of the affected groups) then he doesn't need it. His body is young and fit enough to do the job it is supposed to do and fight the virus by itself. That is what his immune system is meant to do and he will be all the healthier and robust for fighting off any infection he does get.

With all due respect some of your information is misleading.

CDC

Why is a higher dose vaccine available for adults 65 and older?
Human immune defenses become weaker with age, which places older people at greater risk of severe illness from influenza. Also, ageing decreases the body's ability to have a good immune response after getting influenza vaccine. A higher dose of antigen in the vaccine is supposed to give older people a better immune response, and therefore, better protection against flu.

Linkout: http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/qa_fluzone.htm

And further caution (one of many) from the FDA:

Administration of FluMist to persons with a compromised immune system should be based on careful consideration of potential benefits and risks. Data supporting the safety and effectiveness of FluMist in this population are limited. In addition, FluMist is a live virus vaccine, and has the potential for transmission to household contacts that have a weakened immune system. FluMist recipients should avoid close contact after receiving the vaccine.

This is not something without risk.. there are risks and like anything that has risks, lead with caution and a thorough understanding prior to making the decision.

Linkout: http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVac.../ucm080754.htm

I remember my pm dr telling me that the risks of getting an infection from a Neurostimulator were small. I told him so were the chances of getting rsd from surgery, but I got it anyway. That's why my neurologist and gp said they didn't think it was a good idea to get it. I decided not to get that done. My point is, if the chances of getting infected by the live vaccince are small, they are still there, and that concerns me.
It's just like when my son's pediatrician said that the chances of getting polio from the polio nasal mist were small but were still there because they were live. I still had him get it, but was scared too. But since his immune system wasn't compromised and he was healthy, I had it done.
My mother who is 81 got really sick after receiving the flu vaccine when the swine flu was first combined with it. That's when my husband and I stopped getting it. We were wary because the swine flu vaccine was so new and because my mom got so sick. She got the flu shot this year and was okay, but she doesn't have a weakend immune system either. I appreciate all of your advice, but it's scary still to me. Even needles scare me now because after I got them from my accupunturist I got rsd spread. I don't want everyone to get upset over this either though. I didn't realized there was such controversy over this. I'm getting stressed out more by seeing all of you get stressed out. I feel responsible and I'm sorry. That wasn't my intention.

What happened here in the US was that quack parents (no disrespect to those parents) decided to not vaccinate there children in fear of Autism or other disorders. Well surprise surprise the measles has popped up, its very low and thankfully these horrific viruses haven't come back YET. But its just stupid to not vaccinate. Thankfully our whole public school system does not allow kids to start school who are not vaccinated, so that has helped. And obvisly the whole autism comes from vaccines was debunked!

As for the flu shot, again I rather get it to protect me and my body verses getting horrifically sick because I know that's what will happen. My pcp did tell me about a new vaccine they just came out with and its a very tiny needle and doesn't hurt at all, but they don't give them out every where so I think you have to go to your local health department. Second, I have a severely immuno compromised little brother and a basic cold can land him into the hospital and at deaths door, let alone the flu! So my whole family gets them every year and so do our nurses that care for him. And he HAS to get his flu shot every year, his drs don't even give an option, because the benefits definitely out way the negatives. If your worried talk to your PCP to get all your information. The only person that cant get it in my house is my little sister because she has an egg allergy. When H1N1 came out and there wasn't a vaccine yet, that was horrible! A lot of people died from it. Typically the annual count for deaths by flu is 130k, probley your very elderly, severely immuno compromised and those that just don't feel like they need the flu shot or fears they have of it.