Possible Successful treatment for neuropathy!
 

Hi all.

I don't want to raise any false hopes but a friend of mine called me today. He has suffered from Idiopathic PN for 7 years. His toes are so weak that he pulled a sheet over his toes once and broke one of them. His PN was so severe that you could not touch his toes or feet because of their sensitivity.

Well!!! he met up with a woman from Russia who got her medical degree in Russia when she was 17. She then came to America and it was too hard to get a medical degree here so she became an herboligist (or herbalist) and massage specialist. She gave my friend some kind of tea blend (to de-toxify his body) first. She told him. "I can't cure you but I can help you to heal yourself". She believes the immune system attacks the nervous system and that we have to SHOCK the systems back into alignment.

So some time ago he began to do a cold/hot therapy that she explained to him. And he explained it to me over the phone. Here is what he does every day , 2 x a day. (Start at 30 seconds the first time) And now he does 10 minutes twice a day.

He takes two containers (big enough to put your feet in). One container has ice cold water and the other container has hot water.

He alternates both feet in each container (starting at 30 seconds initially). He got such GREAT results that he carries buckets of ice up to the bathroom and he does an ICE BUCKET kind of water in one container and hot water in the other container. Now he's up to 10 minutes two times a day.

He said "whatever this is doing to me, I don't know but I am getting the feeling back in my feet and listen to me doing jumping jacks". And I could here him on the other end of the phone and he was doing jumping jacks. He also RAN today. He hasn't done anything like this in 7 years. His pain level was HORRIBLE.

He told me "I feel great". So maybe this SHOCK to the system kind of treatment works. Initially after drinking the tea, he really cleaned out his system so this doctor explained that we have to get the toxins out of our bodies first and then shock our bodies back into sync.


I just wanted to share his success with all of you. I told this to Alan and he said: "Listen, I have a stent, I'm not sticking my feet into any bucket of ice cold water unless I run this by my doctor first". I said'Good enough". So when he goes to his next appointment I'm asking his doctor and if he gives him the go ahead, I hope he tries this.

The russian lady said "I can't heal dead nerves but some nerves just have to be reanimated and that's what shocking them does" (or something to that effect).

And when I tell you that my friend who has had bad neuropathy for 7 years is now a NEW person, believe me. He was in such good spirits today HE DID JUMPING JACKS. Good Lord.

So if anyone has heard of this please advise.

Thanks much

Melody

Wow. I am glad for him.

I don't think I can do that, the thought of even touching hot water.....:eek:

Maybe it is good for numbness, but for me, with burning being my chief complaint, this therapy does not sound good for me.

Glad he is doing good with it though.

I find this story interesting.

I knew a gal who went to a holistic MD who then sent her to a Czech woman who did a very strange thing. Told her to bring all her RX bottles with the pills in them. She had the patient lie down,
and close her eyes. Then the Czech woman put one at a time on
the patients prone stomach, and waved her arms around, and chanted in her language, all of them. There were several, more than 5 I believe. In the end, she told the patient, that she detected bad energy from the RX of Dyazide, and that this medication should be stopped!

I really don't know what to think about the above, or your PN acquaintance's Russian treatment.

I do get the impression that being a trained doctor at 17 is not credible. Perhaps she trained for 17 years? And something was lost in the communication of this?

Anyway, in Northern countries, it is common to use a steam bath, hut or shed, then run and jump into a frozen lake or ocean.
This is a cultural thing, and perhaps does affect the way the brain interprets sensory signals. Alot of pain, is perceptual and this occurs in the brain. So all I can think of is that this hot/cold alternating treatment is doing the same thing.

I would be very careful leaving cold on the skin for any length of time however... if a person is diabetic or has a blood disorder with elevated cryoglobulins, tissue damage is possible. The peptides called cryoglobulins, actually solidify in the small blood vessels of the hands and feet or other tissues with cold, and may block circulation enough so that those tissues die...and may lead to gangrene eventually.
Type in cryoglobulinemia into Google images for some sobering photos.

Mel...do you know how LONG this fellow has been doing this treatment?

Also what was in the "tea"? I'd be really careful taking any herbal thing without investigating its contents, and researching those. Was this toxin cleanse....just a big laxative? Often placebo treatments historically were only laxatives. Doctors gave them to just about everyone, even small children. I'm personally researching old remedies lately, and laxatives were given for even upper respiratory viruses. The vast majority of old products were simply laxatives! Purging was a very common and longstanding "treatment". Today this practice has a new name, a modern name= cleansing. People have died using "cleansing" teas, in fact. They can cause a significant loss of potassium from the body. Enough to cause the heart to stop in some people.

Here is one link with other questionable cures:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/lif...l-quackery.htm
There are many such links on the net today, many with language not suitable for NeuroTalk.

This is the strangest thing!!
 

1 month ago I went to see a Russian lady here in Sydney who was also a doctor in her country but practicing as a masseuse here in Sydney because her qualifications did not carry across. Anyways she told me I had to alternate hot/cold in the shower to shock my system to recover from whatever I have. She also felt all my organs externally(apparently they all have a vibration) and said I need to detox my colon. I had to start consuming large amounts of lemons for this. I didn't know what to think about this lady. She had a certain mystique to her and maybe this added to the curative aspect of her treatment. She looked at me as if she knew me, it's hard to explain this. It was as if she knew more about me than what I had told her.(creepy)

I didn't do any of these things yet. The mere thought of a cold shower gives me the chills. I am very sensitive to cold. Anyways I just think its beyond funny thati had such a similar experience.

Aussie

Or could it be a very complex "con"? Like they all know each
other and communicate etc?

Look up Cold Reading.... it is a trick that "psychics" use.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading

This made me laugh so hard!! A complex con! Yes I felt like I was being conned. My Russian lady also talked to me about my chakras and told me that there is blockages in them. When I hear the words 'chakra healing', I start getting that glazed look in my eyes.

Hi Aussie:

I think my friend has been doing this for over one week now. He started, not with ice baths in the container, but with cool water in one and warm water in the other. He immediately felt better after one day so he threw in the ice in the cold water bucket. He also made the other bucket a bit hotter. The day he knew this was working was when he climbed into bed, pulled the sheet over his toes and he FELT his feet. He also said "Oh, there's something in my shoe". He then said "how the heck do I know something is in my shoe, when I can never feel my feet?" He was starting to get his feeling back. And in the past he could NEVER have anyone touch his toes. He has gone to this lady two times now. The second time she PULLED his toes, one by one. He was in no pain. As for the tea, she makes various blends for various people and she asked them "how are your bowel movements". One person (this story was told to my friend". One person told the russian lady "I never go to the bathroom" The russian lady said "I'm going to add something to your tea blend". I would imagine it's some kind of herbal laxative? maybe Senna??.

All I can tell you is that my friend is now a completely different human being. He was SO excited doing jumping jacks while on the phone with me. He put the phone down, put it on speaker and said "Listen to me doing Jumping Jacks'. I said 'Holy Cow".

So (and I really do believe this) what did we all do before drugs were invented? How did people survive the conditions that they had?

I make my own colloidal silver. Been doing this for 5 years now. Haven't had so much as a cold or anything. And you all know that I sprout and do microgreens. So for me, this is great.

I wonder if doing the ice and hot thing would help my osteoarthritis? lol

I just might give it a whirl.

And my friend (who is now a happy man), well, his feet burned all the time. And were touch sensitive. That is not the case any more.

Will update more as I hear it.

Melody

I do not disregard this out of hand. There are MANY alternative things God has provided for us to aid us in healing. Just because it is not main stream medical does not mean it cant work.

I believe my chi machine works. I believe in a lot of alternative stuff. My twin boys needed a drastic surgery according to doctors, and I found an alternative healing dr, my family loaded up a van and drove to new york and everyone thought we were stupid. No, not stupid. Trusted my instincts that God lead me to this man and believed.

The power of our mind/belief in not only a biblical/spiritual tool, it's real and effects us in unbelievable ways.

I have done many unconventional things, some work, some do not. I will never throw something out because it sounds stupid or unconventional.

I am so glad this has worked for your friend, and I hope it works for you. Please let me know if you do this and how it works for you. Stranger things can and have happened. My boys are a living, miracle, testament to alternative therapy.

p.s. I have my own hand made collidal silver machine also!!! It scares the crap out of many people who see it cuz it is so rustic. I love it.

One week eh? Well, I am not impressed. Yet.

There are all sorts of desensitizing treatments for nerve pain.
They are used in RSD rehabilitation. They involve texture touching and exposing the area affected to various stimuli carefully and slowly increasing. And the water baths sound like that, to me.

Also his claim of breaking a toe from a top sheet, doesn't wash with me. Are you sure he is not a SHILL for the Russian lady?
Those "healers" use shills to recruit new people. I think a valid question to him, would be "how much did she charge you?"

I whacked my left big toe into a free standing portable air conditioner unit, this last July (in the middle of the night), and it really hurt, and bled like crazy. It damaged my toenail, which had to be surgically removed, but did not break my toe by any means. And even with my PN issues, I could feel cold air on the exposed nail bed for over a week, and the debriding at the next week office checkup hurt, surprisingly much. I kept it covered for a month... because of that sensitivity. I had x-rays, and no broken toe.

So breaking a toe with a cover sheet in bed? One would have to have serious osteoporosis to have that happen.

So if this guy was in such terrible shape, did he limp...or use a cane or walking aids, before? See if you don't call HIM, and he calls YOU, within the next 6mos...listen carefully. If he is a shill he will be contacting you again.

They didn't—they suffered and died.

Advances in medicine are why we now live ~twice as long on average as people did only 100 years ago.

Doc

...and tricks. In the '70s, I happened to visit the Toronto Science Center. One exhibit that apperntly impressed me (because this discussion brought it up out of the depths of accumulated useless information) involved a grate of parallel rectangular metal tubes with alternating warm & cool water flowing through them. Touching either type individually was quite comfortable; mildly warm or cool. Pressing your palm against the grate produced the sensation of either burning hot, freezing cold, or electric shock (depending on the individual and/or position of your palm on the grate).

The purpose of the exhibit was to demonstrate how sensory nerves can be "fooled". Another way is by power of suggestion.

The Power of Suggestion: What We Expect Influences Our Behavior, for Better or Worse

And to go along with MrsD's article on quackery...

How to become a charlatan

Doc

hi melody...not only have I heard of it, it is a suggested treatment at an alternative type health spa I attended in Florida. they had an ice cold pool and a very hot jacuzzi next to each other. You were supposed to plunge in one pool and then run and plunge in the other, going back and forth many times.

I could never do it but my older brother is one tough guy and he did it. I cannot say for sure that it helped anyone but the theory behind it is that it does something to reset your nervous system by confusing it with the quick changes from extreme hot to cold....it did something to the brain. sorry I am not more technical.

I can see how your friend could do his feet but the entire body, especially sensitive areas, was tough. We did have alot of fun watching various people attempt it though.
D.

Yes, this is an old cultural thing in many countries. It is not new by any means.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauna
At the end of this wiki article are the medical statements, which are very interesting. So don't miss those!

I have to agree with MrsD on the broken toe thing. I do not believe a sheet can break a toe, that is too out there even for me, lol.

However, I do not want to be negative to this approach, if it works for him great, if people here choose not to believe it that is ok too. Maybe you will try it and it will work for you and no one here will disbelieve YOU...hopefully.

You were told something and shared it here, and I say thank you. You never know what might work and it certainly cost nobody ANYTHING to use hot and cold water. :winky:

Closed minds are everywhere, I have lived with it my whole life. It doesn't bother me when people think I am crazy, I know my truth. It's ok to be skeptical, I am very skeptical of things, but I do have an open mind to possabilities.

If I had not been open to things, modern medicine would have cut open my sons chests, going through every breast bone and inserting a bar and then redoing it when it was time to remove the bar. Thank God I looked beyond mondern medicine.

You have to have thick skin, and confidence to go against the flow in this world. Thankfully...I have BOTH. :)

Also: alternating hot and cold therapy

(emphasis mine)

Doc

Wow, another person who believes in Colloidal Silver. How cool.

I'll update you on the hot and cold thing.

Take care, Melody

This is actually very good news for your friend Mel. Maybe there is merit to the hot/cold therapy. In winter time we have elderly people swimming in the ocean over here. They share that the cold is the elixir of life. Ironically I was also asked about bowel movements. I think it has to do with the detox process. I was told to drink cloudy apple juice during the day. Please keep us updated on your friend.

Melody, did you make your own or did you buy a machine thingy to make the silver????

Mine is good old fashioned home made and when I say rustic, well..its rustic. Like everything, I go in spurts, I use it awhile then quit, then remember it and use it again. Then I ran out of silver and forgot until today.

Stacy, did your son have pectus excavatum? Where the rib cage is compressing the heart and lungs? Our 26 year old was never diagnosed until he tried to enter officer's candidate school after grad school. He had the highest ASVAB scores in our state for ten years and they chauffeured him around trying to get a waiver. Finally a cardiologist at Walter Reed said "no way". Basic training would kill him. His heart and lungs cannot expand, 5 on the haller index. We have been kicking ourselves that the pediatricians and doctors never caught it and wishing we had done the surgery you describe. May I ask why you decided not to? My son always wanted a career in law enforcement, which is now closed to him. He is a dealer in a casino.

I have identical twin sons and they both had pectus Carinatum. Carinatum is where the bones protrude out, excavatum is where the bones push in. Carinatum is easier to fix, providing you catch it early enough. You have to treat both of them before the age of 18 while the bones are still flexible.

20 years ago surgery was the ONLY option, and most doctors didn't even bother to treat it, and insurance said it was cosmetic. Things have changed since my boys were little, today there are options, and it is realized that indeed it is more than cosmetic, but much is still unknown to the "modern medical" doctors.

Back 20 years ago bracing was not common. I almost flew my 4th grade boys to Brazil since my research showed limited dr's who believed in bracing over surgery. Thankfully God lead me to a man on the cutting edge of new technology, but my boys were among his first patients. Today he has several locations and is a thriving pectus therapy in New York, New Jersey, and Arizona.

Why did I do it??? Have you seen that gosh awful surgery they want to perform???? They go in and break all the ribs and breast bone to place a bar, close them up, wait 6 months, the do another surgery to take the bar out. N O W A Y. Recovery is AWFUL.

God lead me the correct path, and I am still thankful today. If you heard the whole story you would be amazed. Long story short....2 boys, so double the tests and costs. Because I found this man at the beginning of his trying to get doctors to join him in this therapy, I never paid a dime. 2 kids, means 2 MRI, 2 ekg, 2 stress test, 2 cat scans, list is long. I never got a single bill and thats only part of the story. God is good.

p.s. today they can take their shirt off and you would never know they had it. :)

That is wonderful! They are lucky to have you for a mom!
The surgeries are similar, but for our son they would break the ribs and insert a steel spring contraption which they would have to go back in and expand periodically. The results are not guaranteed and it can revert to the original condition. It is barbaric, but I might have chanced it when he was young if I knew how it would affect his future. He weighs 140 at 6'4" and cannot go without a shirt in public. It is sad, and can be life threatening if he exercises.
The odd thing is, my rib cage is very large, larger than my bust. It is extremely unattractive, which I am past caring about but it was tough when i was younger being over 6' tall, flat chested, and having these ribs. I looked like Jim Carey when he would do the female body builder skit. Our bone structure is so odd as a family.
Thank you for responding. A fascinating story.

I'm very sorry for your son. My boys have seen many friends in the locker rooms at school with pectus. Most go undiagnosed or untreated. Their very best friend has flared ribs which is part of pectus. One of my sons was worse than the other since it was over his heart more, took longer to correct. I don't understand pediatricians that say "its nothing".

It is a very, very, sad thing for a child/adult to live with, especially when young. My heart aches for kids who have it.

I really do hate the medical community. I know I need it, but at times I really hate it. I truly do embrace alternative medicine, in every aspect. I have more stories like the above one, that are amazing. Now I am just waiting for God to show me something for my pn. :winky:

p.s. if you want the name of the place I took my boys for your son send me a private message. He is a good friend of mine, he even flew to my state for a follow up visit years ago. He has a thriving practice. I don't know how much he could help since your son is over 18 but you never know. I believe in miracles. :)

Hi Melody
 

I think I will try this hot/cold therapy. It is natural, and maybe worth a shot to try. I will ask my PCP as well. If I could get rid of this neuropathy and not have to take medications, lotions, patches etc. sounds like it is worth a bit of investigation. ginnie:grouphug:

sounds similar
 

I have had a doctor recommend alternating hot and cold in the shower - as warm as you can stand it, then as cold as you can manage. Repeat several times back and forth ending with cold. It is supposed to improve your circulation if done every day. Your body pulls blood away from heat and towards cold (or is it the other way around) - at any rate the back and forth motion helps the blood vessels work better.

I used to buy it years ago. Silver Biotics. Then I did some research and now I use the pure thin silver bars (got them free from a very generous person on the internet who gives you the kit). I use a 9 volt battery. Haven't had a problem. I can't afford the generator but I know others who have the generator.

And about my friend having a sheet break his toe? Yup. I met up with him at our monthly Neuropathy Support Group meeting. He took his shoes off. There was the broken toe. It did happen. That was over a year ago.

We don't have Access a ride now so we can't go to the PN Support Group Meetings. But hopefully the lawyer handling Alan's Article 78 will be updating us soon when the judge hears Alan's case.

He should be reinstated and then we can continue going to the PN Support Group Meetings in NYC.

When I speak to my friend again I'll ask him how his hot and cold thing is doing. It really is a remarkable story.

Mel

Fwiw I do have a steam cabin/sauna. They are wonderful things that make you feel like a million bucks and smell exquisite for days. It even has a cool LED "starry heaven" ceiling.

Sadly I can no longer use it anymore since with the PN it started to hurt like hell. Your mileage may vary. :)

I go through that every time just trying to get the water the right temperature... :eek:

Doc

I cannot stand that heat.... The sauna at the gym would set off my Lateral Femoral nerve (MP--damage from a C-section many years ago), fairly quickly. I loved to sauna after a work out.

Also hot baths are out for me too. I only use lukewarm water today. Too hot a bath and my feet go off into constant pain for days afterward.

I think people are going to be different with this hot/cold thing. So start off carefully with no extremes or long times doing it.

I do use ice treatments for my back and ankle sometimes. No longer than 20 minutes though. I use an cold gel pack that I keep in the frig freezer. Cold treatments like this are recommended for some arthritis patients, but only if done for short periods of time. Use of cold too long can be dangerous to tissues, if your circulation is poor.
They tend to quench inflammation.

Hi Mrs D.

Oh I certainly agree with you on the ice thing. Years ago when I had a flare up of sciatica I had to go to this therapist office and they would sit me down and put an ice pack on my lower back. I nearly jumped off the chair. I said "are you crazy?" She said 'No, you have to do this, it's good for the pain". I said "It's hurting me". She said "no you have to do it'. She walked away, I took it off, and after 15 minutes she came back (thinking I had the pack on), I gave her the pack and THEN we did the thing where they put some electrodes on the back, cover it with a hot (I think it was called a hydroculator), it had been boiling in some pot) then they cover that with big towels. They put the timer on. Can't remember how long but I felt the electrodes doing their thing. Then I had to go some physical exercise with weights and pulleys. Then.... they put me on some table with my neck in some holding system and they STRETCHED ME. I don't remember if I liked it or not because this was almost 25 years ago.

I had all kinds of pinched nerves, etc. Blah!! It sucked. I have NEVER liked anything cold on my body ever since.

When I take a shower the bathroom has to be WARM before I even get in the shower. I don't like anything cold.

Could be all in my mind. Who knows??

Melody

Funny how one persons misery is anothers fantasy!! LOL Those of us who burn want cold and vice versa.

I miss my hot baths, hot tubs, spa's and everything hot. Even showers are now shorter and less hot. I miss socks. Shoes that cover my whole foot. Ahhh....memories :)

Interesting.

When I had my PT for my tendon injury, they put an ICE pack on my thigh, after hooking up the electrodes for the IFc.... This allowed she said for high currents to be used without pain. And it seemed to work for me.

The only heat I use now is for GI spasms, and then only for 15 minutes or so. My chiro from years ago told me that heat will stimulate nerves, so if you have nerve pain, avoid it for any time over 10 minutes. Too much heat inflames nerves, she said.
And for me that has turned out to be correct and useful advice.

The secret is to use only in MODERATION.

Melody u said ur friend has idiopathic pn. Do u know if this hot/cold treatment could also help someone with a known nerve compression like tarsal tunnel or common or deep peroneal n. Comp.?[
sounds lik u could be on to something here! Let me know if u find any info on this.
thanks rhonda


B][/B]

Hi. The only thing I know is that it is still working for my friend. I have no idea if it works on anything else. It's STILL working for him. He is doing hula hoops now, he's so happy. He has been on IVIG for 7 years now. I don't imagine he will stop that because we know someone who got cocky, stopped her IVIG after 18 years and wound up back in a wheelchair, went back on IVIG but was never the same. I don't think my friend would stop his IVIG (that's an IV of Gammaglobulin), an immune system booster. My husband did that for 2 years but it had no effect on his neuropathy.

But one interesting thing happened yesterday. My husband went to the podiatrist for his usual appointment. He was having a really rough day with his neuropathy (a rough few days to be exact). I said to the doctor, "do you do trigger point injections?" He said "sure', let's give Alan some on the left foot (couldn't do the other because Alan has a recurrent foot ulcer on the other foot).

So he gave Alan the trigger point injection and lo and behold for the next 10 hours, Alan had no pain in his left foot.

The doctor said "this should usually last a few weeks but let's see). Alan says he's a lot better now than before the shot but who the heck knows.

And I ran the whole hot/cold thing by his podiatrist. Well!!! you should have seen the look on his face.

He said "OMG, please don't do that, no one should shock their nervous system that way".

Alan looked at me and said: "I told you so".

lol lol

Until Alan goes and runs this by Dr.Fred, he's not putting his feet in any hot and cold anything. Will update.

Melody

So the hot/cold guy is getting IVIG? Well that is a huge factor.

This anecdotal discussion of hot/cold would be far more believeable with a person not being treated with the BIG GUN drug of all time for PN! (and for 7 yrs no less!).

I don't think this sounds crazy. You can imagine that this process would increase circulation in the area. That's great that it seems to be helping your friend. Give it some time and see how it goes. There are lots of neuropathy treatments, and each helps some people, depending on the cause of their PN and their body's unique characteristics.
Ron

Hi Ron:

My husband has decided he is NOT going to try this. He thinks it will give him a heart attack. Nothing I can say or do will have an impact on what another person will do. Because I know this, there is nothing I CAN do. When we go and visit his primary care physician, Dr. Fred, I'll run it by him. But Alan has already said "I don't care what he says, I'm not sticking my feet in an ice bucket' See?? My husband only heard the mention of an ice bucket. It doesn't matter that I said 'No one is putting your feet in any ice bucket, you start off SLOWLY"

He doesnt care. So naturally, why should I? He marches to his own drummer.

That's my Alan, lol

Melody