Oral Issues Struggling with answers
 

Hello I am new here to this forum. I am a 24 year old college student with no known health issues besides Aspergers, and oral herpes. My problem started in October about three weeks after I got my upper two wisdom teeth removed. My tongue is coated white, with a yellow palate, difficulty shallowing at times , I have dry mouth, canker sores off and on and a nasty chemical taste in my mouth. I have been to several doctors including an infectous disease doctor, several GPs, an oral pathologist and ENT. Thrush has been ruled out through a KOH stain, and the best they can give me is geographic tongue and general stomatitis. The pathologist suspests an autoimmune disorder but I did not respond to prenisone and I am on no other meds. I am going to my dentist and back to the pathologist next week. Any advice? Also I am negative for Stds, diabetes, livers fine etc. I attached an image below. Thanks!

HI Dustinwx,

I am in the dental field and can offer you some information here.

Thanks for posting the picture. Just FYI... I have seen many thousands of tongues in my career.... .... your tongue indicates a few problems and here is what immediately pops into my mind:

**What medications are you on for the Aspergers?
** How long have you been taking them?
**Are you aware of the side effects of the meds?
**Your diet is deficient in nutrients and you probably have some vitamin deficiencies. Thus the deep ridges along the borders of your tongue and the deep groove down the center.
**The stomatitis you were diagnosed with is a definite symptom of a digestive problem and it correlates with the ridges and deep groves indicating that the problem probably goes further down than your stomach.
**The yellow colored tongue indicates you are lacking healthy, good bacteria in your digestive tract... from the oral cavity all the way down into your colon.

I would suggest you seek a consultation with a nutritionist to help you with your diet and advise you on appropriate vitamin/mineral supplementation which would most definitely help you a whole lot!

Regarding the correlation between having your upper wisdom teeth removed and the onset of your symptoms.... perhaps it is not correlated and/or you had these symptoms prior but were not as aware of them as you are now.

Regarding an auto immune disorder.... not all people will respond to prednisone. However, that lack of response does not rule out an auto immune condition. Also, someone can be ill for awhile and not realize it until the symptoms start to interfere with their daily lives. Some long term health conditions and/or long term medications can trip up the immune system resulting in auto immune problem.

Anytime the digestive system is imbalanced, your tongue will show clear cut signs of deficiency.

Hope this information helps.
Bryanna

Dustinwx
 

Hello and welcome to Neruo talk. None of us are doctors here. However I understand why you are concerned. You really did pick the right kind of doctors to go see. Bryanna is the best with dental issues.
Because you are having swallowing issues, I think I would have to seek one more specialist, an upper GI doctor. Even though you saw an ENT, the upper GI can do an endoscopy and check to see if this swallowing issue is some how related to your condition. They take a biopsy during the endoscopy. Good to check that out just to make sure everything is working OK.
Did the disease specialist, do any kind of tests specific to mouth conditions? Did you have to take a "swallow" test? You drink some awful stuff, and they take pictures of the action in your throat and esophagus. I hope you can find some resolution in this. It isn't fun not to know what is wrong. Let me know why you decided to do. Not sure this is just a dental issue, Bryanna will know more about this than I do. Take care, ginnie:hug:

Hey bryanna thanks for the advice! I currently take adderall for ADHD symptoms. I have taken this sense June but my issues started in July. I have read that various digestive type disorders will cause the yellow coating. I take a multi-vitamin and I have been tested for B vitamin deficiency inwhich the results were normal. Also as I said I am negative for thrush. I do need to eat healthier and probably could benefit from a B vit complex. I have noticed that this issue is the worst when I feel dry mouth symptoms (can't even spit at times) which improves when I eat or when I am not at work (dusty book warehouse) so I'm not sure if there's an allergic component to it. This has been very confusing and it seems hard to diagnose.

Meant to say the issues started in October not july

Yes, I agree about improving nutrient status.

I have to wonder about the yellow staining of your teeth as well.
Do you drink Mountain Dew or other liquids with dyes in them?
Or chew some gum with dyes in it...or suck on candies with dyes in them? The dye is more likely to stick to your mouth for longer periods if you have dry mouth issues.

Yes all the time.

Also for one other picture you can see how it switches around and gets worse esp in the morning.

Here is a picture of "hairy tongue"...

http://stanfordmedicine25.stanford.e...25/tongue.html

More on this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hairy_leukoplakia

May respond to antiviral medications. (you did mention oral herpes, earlier).

I would stop eating or sucking on any candy for a while and see if that improves it. Including the Mountain Dew...which is an awful thing to consume anyway...IMO.

Thanks though hairy leukoplakia is very rarely seen outside of immunosuppressed folks. (HIV, leukemia) So frustrating.

FYI - Adderall can cause a dry mouth.

Dustin,

Based on all of your posts here along with the photos of your tongue, I would bet that your symptoms are being caused by nutrient deficiencies. Which evidently have been ongoing with little to no obvious symptoms until last October when your immune system had to deal with the healing from the extractions.

Your digestive issues are related to the deficiencies and they are a clear indication that the problem is not acute it is chronic and it is progressing. It is important to know that by the time the tongue shows definitive symptoms of a nutrient deficiency, the problem has already been existing for a long time.

Nutrient deficiencies such as yours are not routinely treated by conventional physicians even those in the specialty field. So the Infection Disease physician, unless he has education specifically in nutrition, cannot help you because the original cause of your symptoms are not infection or bacterial related... nor can the ENT.... or the GD. Conventional dentists also do not have the education to treat these either.

Regarding blood work.... the standard blood tests are usually not sufficient as they do not delve into anything other than the basic blood markers. The only time a standard blood test will show when something is wrong is when it's already progressed and even then, it may not show up.

You might take a look at the IAOMT website for a physician and dentist located near you. Here is their website... IAOMT.org
These professionals have been educated the same as conventional doctors but they have extended their education beyond that to learn more about things like nutrition, etc.

You admit to a poor diet... eating sugar... and drinking mountain dew all of the time. All of these things contribute to poor health and nutrient deficiencies as they rob our body of vitamins and minerals. A diet rich in sugar, chemicals, preservatives, dyes... are toxic to our system and will cause you to become ill.

Your meds, adderall, are well known to contribute to dry mouth which predisposes you to many oral health problems. However, that is not the main cause of the situation with your tongue. There is a list of side effects with this type of medication and they may be something you have to live with as long as you take it. So it is very important to eat a healthy diet and avoid those things that contribute to ill health because your body is already compromised from the medication. Have I explained that okay? :)

You would not benefit from using anti-fungal or anti-viral medications for very long, if at all, because your real problem is not being caused by a fungus or a virus. Both of those things would be a complication of the underlying problem which is most likely diet and deficiency related.

Improving your diet in a big way, drinking only water, avoiding soda, sugar and cigarettes (if you smoke) would ease some of the physical symptoms. But it is truly best to seek the help of someone who can guide you through this process for it to be most effective. That is why I had suggested a nutritionist. Seeking the medical advise of someone who is knowledgeable in the nutritional aspect rather than one who is not, would also be helpful because they would know what specific blood work to have done also.

I know this is a lot for you to take in. But don't fool yourself by thinking more b vitamins are going to make a difference. Your problem is a bit more complex than that but you can turn this situation around for the better if you seek the proper guidance.

I wish you well. Please keep us posted!
Bryanna

Again thanks for your time in explaining what could be the cause. It does make sense. Only a couple more questions to this.

1. While stimulants are known to cause dry mouth, when I first took it it gave me dry mouth but subsequently went away after about a week. It did not return till my other symptoms did. Can nutrient deficits cause dry mouth?

2. What would explain a chemical taste in my mouth along with bad breath ?

3. Finally what might explain the occasianal feeling of there being a lump or foriegn object while shallowing along with an occasional sore throat? It seems like if I look into the back of my throat with a flash light it has a red/white speckled/cracked type look to it.

Thanks again. With Aspergers and anxiety it's tough to not have definent answers and it makes me fear the worst. (Syphilis, cancer, etc) I use to smoke but quit consquendientaly around the same time my problems started.thanks for your patience and time and sorry for all the questions

Hi Dustin,

I will repost your questions and reply in bold type.... makes it easier to follow.

<<1. While stimulants are known to cause dry mouth, when I first took it it gave me dry mouth but subsequently went away after about a week. It did not return till my other symptoms did. Can nutrient deficits cause dry mouth?>>

AS THE BODY ADJUSTS TO THE MEDS, SOME OF THE SIDE EFFECTS MAY BECOME MINIMIZED. THESE MEDS WILL CONTINUE TO CAUSE DRY MOUTH BUT IN VARYING DEGREES AND YOUR DIET PLAYS A ROLE IN THIS. CERTAIN THINGS LIKE SODA, SUGAR, TEAS, CHEMICALS/DYES IN FOOD, LACK OF WATER WILL ALL CONTRIBUTE TO DRY MOUTH. ADD YOUR MEDS TO THAT MIXTURE AND THE PROBLEM BECOMES WORSE.

2. What would explain a chemical taste in my mouth along with bad breath ?

A CHEMICAL TASTE CAN BE LINKED TO MANY THINGS. POOR FITTING OR BROKEN FILLINGS, DECAY, PERIODONTAL DISEASE, MEDICATIONS, INADEQUATE WATER INTAKE, RINSING WITH CHEMICAL MOUTHWASHES ...... ALSO YOUR TONGUE IS HOLDING BACTERIA AND FOOD DEBRIS IN THOSE DEEP CREVICES WHICH WILL CAUSE BAD BREATH AND ODD TASTE. EVERYONE SHOULD BRUSH TWICE DAY, FLOSS ONCE A DAY AND USE A TONGUE SCRAPER BEFORE THEY GO TO SLEEP AT NIGHT.

<<3. Finally what might explain the occasianal feeling of there being a lump or foriegn object while shallowing along with an occasional sore throat? It seems like if I look into the back of my throat with a flash light it has a red/white speckled/cracked type look to it.>>

IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOUR THROAT GETS DEHYDRATED WHICH MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO SWALLOW AND FEEL SORE. THIS CAN LEAD TO BACTERIA OVER GROWTH JUST LIKE IT HAS ON YOUR TONGUE. START DRINKING WATER THROUGH OUT THE DAY, NO SUGAR OR ANYTHING ELSE, JUST WATER. DO THIS FOR A FEW DAYS AND SEE IF YOU NOTICE A DIFFERENCE IN YOUR THROAT. IT IS BEST TO DRINK SEVERAL GLASSES OF WATER EVERY DAY FOR OPTIMUM HEALTH.

<<Thanks again. With Aspergers and anxiety it's tough to not have definent answers and it makes me fear the worst. (Syphilis, cancer, etc) I use to smoke but quit consquendientaly around the same time my problems started.thanks for your patience and time and sorry for all the questions>>

NO NEED TO APOLOGIZE. YOUR CONCERN IS UNDERSTANDABLE. I DON'T THINK YOUR PROBLEM IS CANCER ... IT IS NUTRITION RELATED.

Bryanna

Many drugs can cause taste perversion.

Also go back to the links I gave you. They explain that
Epstein Barr virus can cause hairy tongue. This virus causes
Mononucleosis and that causes sore
Throat that can become chronic and complicated
By bacteria overgrowth. Your doctor can culture
It. When I had mono I had a staph infection
That resulted. I made them culture it and
then the correct antibiotic could be given. One does
Not need to have HIV to get hairy tongue. If your immune
system is overwhelmed with a virus then other
organisms can move in and take over.

Hi Dustin
 

If after changing your diet, and getting rid of some of the stuff like Mountain dew...if you still have trouble swallowing, seek the upper GI doctor just to make sure it is nutritional, and not functional in your throat. Epson Barr or Mono is easy to detect with a blood test. That virus causes lots of different auto immune problems. I wish you all the best. ginnie:hug:

Dustin,

I just want to clarify that it is best to seek the help of a professional in the nutritional field and not try to change your diet on your own. All of the suggestions that I have given you will help you but you need the proper guidance for these things to be most effective. This person will educate you on the facts and unpleasant circumstances associated with eating a processed food diet and ease you into a more wholesome nutritious one.

Of course you have to be willing to move in this direction and only you can make that choice. It is important to understand that if you continue the way that you are, you will undoubtedly endure further physical problems down the road. I hope you find the information that I have given you helpful and I hope you are able to find the proper guidance.

I wish you well! Please check back with us and let us know how you are doing.
Bryanna

Hey guys had one other slightly unrelated question. I have something called terrys nails despite testing well all around medically. No duabetes or liver issues despite my previous heavy drug use. Any chance this is related ?

Hi Dustinwx,

The condition "Terrys nails" have various causes.
However, malnutrition and fungal infection are typical causes.
Anytime your diet is nutritionally poor for a long period of time your immune system will break down.
Add to that medications and/or other drugs along with a diet that is mostly (if not all) foods that are laden with chemicals, preservatives, sugar and dyes.... the physical maladies will become more widespread and severe.

Have you given any consideration to changing your diet? Or are you thinking that because you are young that your problems will just go away on their own?

Bryanna

Bryanna, I understand I do probably have several defenineciss but I don't think that is the only cause nor do I think I suffer malnutrition. Though I do respect and understand what you are saying. It's not that I think it'll go away as it obviously won't. All my blood work is in normal range so you probably are right. I attached a picture of my finger nails as well. Thanks again

I apologize if I came across rude btw I actually did make an appointment with a nutritionist