Suicide and chronic illness
 

I'm putting this out there for advice and helpful thoughts. I have a very good friend with a painful chronic illness who has been through losing family, business, and friends. Many times this friend cannot find a reason to live or to go on. This friend is very intelligent and a very rational and logical thinker. Lately my friend has been wanting to own a gun simply because this friend thinks it will give him/her an option when him/her feels like there are no others. I understand these feelings on an emotional level. Any thoughts or helpful hints on how to deal with this would be appreciated. And, yes, I have refused to own a gun because I fully understand the implications having held one more than once myself. ;) BTW when this friend thinks about suicide it is in a totally rational and logical way. And, yes, I have pointed out what it would do this friend's family. Thanks my good and dear friends. Please feel free to send me pm's if you feel better communicating on that level. If you feel you have no answers that's ok as well. I realize how difficult a subject this is.

Here you are again dear lady...also caring about others while struggling with the beast yourself. :hug:

I am always repeating myself here....you have heard it all before. :( If someone is hell bent on ending their lives there isn't a thing you can do about it other than what you have already done. Tell them how much you care and how much their actions will change their loved ones forever. Give them the book Suicide, The Forever Decision, add them to your prayer list and give them a hug. :hug:

That's really all you can do...I understand about chronic pain and choices.
And I love you for caring so much. :hug:

SO nice to see you !

When I read your post I thought right away exactly what Alffe said!!

I so wish there was more we could do for all that suffer in ANY way.......:grouphug:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3125689/

I do understand dear friend. :(

Thank you dear Alffe....and, yes, you are right. I guess I just needed to hear it from someone else. Just keep loving. It is their choice.
And thank you Jaded! It's funny that this friend is always using the same quote you have, and claims it is their favorite one. Guess I need to remind them.
I try to say that there is always something to be unhappy about if that's what you want to be. I agree that some seem to have more reasons than others. ~sigh
Love and miss all my friends here and am so very grateful that I can come here myself. I love and appreciate you so much even though I don't come around a lot. My friends here are never far from my thoughts or my heart. :grouphug:

Dear Alffe,
I just read that article and it is excellent and something my friend can read as well. This friend is always doing research and can easily relate to and understand this. Sometimes they need to hear it from another source, especially a professional and scientific one :wink:
Now if I can just keep this friend away from the gun aisle in Wal-Mart :hug:

Heavy sigh.... You have to be 21 to buy a handgun. :o :(

My dear friend Mistiis..........just like to echo what Alffe said........you strugle daily with your own emotions yet selflessly reach out to help others.....i applaud you for that empathic quality that very few souls have.

Once again Alffe is correct you cannot prevent a person killing themself if that is what they want to do.

But i throw out this to think about,

'This friend is very intelligent and a very rational and logical thinker'

Suicidal thoughts are not rational...they are a minds destorition of the reality that we live.

We get fed up often............we dont always feel like ending life...........

when ending life is a constant thought that is illness not rationality.....

irantional thinking does not dechipher if it attacks the minds of educated or uneducated people...it attacks both [many educated people end their own life irrationally, as do many uneducated people]


rationalising the demise of yourself, by your own doing is by defintion irational.................

mental illness convinces us that the world does not need us to play any further part............logic only occurs when WE ARE WELL


I recall my major Atempt.........spontaneous....determined.......ang ry.........

Deffinately no rational.......and i think i'm intelligent and often rational and logical..........


my point is dont be fooled by those who say their suicide is planned and carried out rationaly through thought education and logic .........because its not............

mental illness affects educated people.......they may sound rational and logical/////but they are still mentaly unwell

David

Hi, Mistiis!
 

I think that by showing your love you are probably already using the most powerful tool that you have. I do think it's important to remember to show this love in a persistent way. After all, the despair is probably persistent itself. :o

I'm not saying this just to disagree, DMACK, but I do think that it's possible to approach suicide in a rational way, even though I agree that this is not usually the case. Some people are simply too rational to escape logic and effectively embrace their emotions and desire to live. They reason that if it seems likely the rest of their life will be an unpleasant prelude to what is already an inescapable death then what difference does a few years or decades really make? I'm not defending this approach, but I do understand how it could make purely logical sense.

Lara, unfortunately yes, you can buy these weapons even at a Walmart. They've recently added military-assault-style weapons to the inventory, such as AR-15's and other knock-off brands.

Mistiis, I think your friend is extremely lucky to have you on his/her help and prayer lists, whether they realize it or not. Unfortunately I just found-out a few minutes ago that an old and close friend of mine had shot himself in his own bathroom, and did not survive. He left behind a wife and daughter. What makes this particular suicide so frustrating is that no one seems to have ever suspected that he was considering it. I think the best that anyone can do, if they do have reason to suspect such a thing, is to show their love and to be willing to listen, even if you have to listen to the same thing over and over again. Some people need to verbalize their feelings in order to deal with them, and the deeper the hurt the longer it takes. God bless you for being so caring.

Just found out that my 15yo DGS saved his girlfriend from suicide. She had spoken of it months ago and even set a date: April 22nd. He took her to a movie the night before and afterward asked when he'd see her again. "In Heaven," she responded.

Thank goodness his mother picked up on his devastation and made him talk! She had him call the girl's father. Her parents had been trying to treat her depression with vitamins and hadn't realized the seriousness. They kept her at home the next day and checked on her constantly.

Love is good. Very very good. :circlelove: But this is going to take more.

I have an adult niece and her brother that both suffer from depression. He refuses to take any medications because they are "evil." He is in a dark place mentally, isn't able to hold down a job and depends on 100% financial support from his parents. He is one school quarter away from college graduation, and has been for about 20 years.

She, however, accepts medical help and does her best to help herself by getting out and participating in life. She just remarried, but still has demons that mess with her mind.

You folks in this forum obviously know about this than I do. It just makes me shake my head in confusion. What a mystery our mental health is!

May God bless you all. :grouphug:

Listening is the most important thing we can do when someone is talking. Thank you Idealist. <3


I agree Twink....our mental health "issues" are a great mystery.

Thank you DMACK. I do believe that illness is involved, obviously, whether physically or mentally. Chronic physical illness and having no joy for life itself, or feeling like you have nothing to offer society or the people in it, can make you believe that life is not WORTH living. It's simply because the individual has lost their sense of self-worth as our society defines self worth. Yes, we have all bought our ticket out of life when we were born, but the timing is not ours to set. There is usually some strong emotion behind the act even if rationalized by the individual. :hug: I'm glad your still here.

Alffe, you understand how important listening and REALLY caring are. People can tell when your intentions are true and when your just being mannerly. YOU set such a wonderful example, and I love you for it. :hug:

I think it's important to listen and help them to see there ARE other options. However, our society is becoming more and more devoid of the simple acts of a caring touch or phone call. Technology is taking that away from us.

Idealist, I'm so sorry to read about your friend. This may be another example of someone who could not reach out for,or simply did not know how, to ASK for help. Yes, despair can certainly be persistent. Love can be healing ;)

Twinkletoes, I am so sorry to read about this child as well. I think it's especially difficult for someone trying to fit in to our society when they just feel like they don't and have tried and tried only to feel like a failure, and, again, it's hard to find someone who REALLY understands and can relate. It's when someone can really relate to what you are saying that you can really FEEL understood. Thank goodness someone did listen and take action. :)

Yes, Lara, it upsets me terribly how easy it is to get a gun, and yet, how rational it can seem to own one or more. I don't like them myself. I'd rather have a can of mace :cool:

First, the one in trouble needs to TALK, and someone needs to LISTEN and really CARE. I wish more people would utilize Neurotalk. I know my friends here have saved me :grouphug:

The problem of suicide is still growing, unfortunately. To help prevent even one is a blessing. I thank everyone here for their help and support of me over the years. :circlelove:

It is evil at work
 

My experience a rational intelligent woman
that only time gives a person
Coming from a "highly" dysfunctional
upbringing help me as a young child
the oldest of three
How they both still come to me
as if I were momma
My youngest sister
gives me Mother's Day card
and honors me as one
She is a dedicated daughter
to to woman who birthed us
Forgive me father almighty
the ill feelings I have when I
think of her and her lies
This pain I suffer will just grow
unless a miricle
and I do believe
To have a father who checked out
by his own hands
All the ingredients that helped him
make that final decision also a slew of
ingredients
For the thought to be there as it has
for me many times in my life
Just the thought
Now depending on my mental state
Including all the ingredients mostly genetics
having a play as my family from my children
to the man that is my father is gone by his own hands
What I'm trying to say
get out
The thought process thinks they will be
BETTER without me
WRONG
all my children tried
I pray my boy reaches out
when he thinks to take his life
we we
My whole family sisters and all
have made their attempt
And to been spoken to open to
talk talk talk talk talk and talk
no matter how rational all may sound
Our mind distorted by compounded pain
piled one on top of the other
Oh how angry I am I have such
limited time when pain is doable
Till it slowly stops working
and to now be in a state inoperable
"To many things wrong"
This I already knew with my
second opinion doctor that ordered
a the meylo gram
And a third
But having to hold on to
find out it do not metastasized
and to remove that factor of
bone cancer
allows me not to beg him to
bring me home
In my case many factors
Obsession lifted
Just for today
Amen
Love to the world

Idealist...................Suicide....can be a choice....whether that be from short term or long term illness; or terminal illnees [i personaly class this as end of life choice which is euthinasia]

Suicide and euthinasia are two different animals

suicide is on the whole spontaneous or dilliousioanaly pre planned ...euthinasia is calculated and planned from the result of impemding death or severe imobiloty

education bares no stamp on both suicide and euthinasia,,, it effects all walks of life,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


I think that by showing your love you are probably already using the most powerful tool that you have. I do think it's important to remember to show this love in a persistent way. After all, the despair is probably persistent itself.

this sumation is correct and ideal in all cases and i totally agree Idealist

I have tried quite a few times to end my life since my last accident.

My pain gets so bad and overwhelming!

My accident also took most of my quality of life away. Before , I had an active life , I was productive , very social , outgoing etc. I also was a pianist, which I'm unable to do now because of this terrible pain!

For the most part I used to live my life in gratitude and embrace it . One of the best feelings was being able to help my family, clients and friends, or even strangers in a store if I saw they were struggling to get or do something.

The remnants of this accident made my life go in a 180 degree turn.

I went from that place..... to a place of looking forward and hoping to die every day.

It has been like a death to me... and my life as I knew it.

Chronic pain is a beast and it has wreaked havoc in lives ,both physically and mentally!

I hope that all of you here as well as myself ,find pain relief,and some peace with accepting this new way of "life".

{{{ HUGS TO ALL }}}

`oh yes understood
 

know it well
and then feel how my children
did not sign up for having asked to
come into this world
it would be a second suicide
in the family
none of that pain
if i have anything to do with it
i love them
and the fellowship i find here
has pulled me up off the ground
and held me up till i was strong enough
thank God
thank God
thank God
Amen
you have a place here
love
me

I've been down that road and turned back temporarily. I have no issue with what anyone does with their own life. It's not mine and I have no idea what it's like for them and I can think of no better time for them to be selfish.

I have seen it from the other side with family and friends telling someone in deep deep distress that they are being crummy for being so selfish never realizing the amazing amount of selfishness it takes to demand that someone suffer greatly so you don't have to suffer a little.


A gun is such a messy way to effect relief as there are very gentle ways to accomplish things and it does leave things in better shape for family and friends.

You know suicides for the most part are not trying to hurt anyone they are trying to save their own sanity. They are in such physical and emotional pain that they can't stand being alive. What a horrible position to be in.

And I also don't agree with those that say it's the coward's way out. The night I sat down to do it was the most frightening night of my life. Something stopped me that night that was life changing for me but had that not happened I wonder if I would have had the courage. People not in pain may never be able to relate to those who have it. Due to that I usually disregard their opinions in favor of my own. I'm devastated that people get into so much pain that their only option is to end the suffering. I'm grateful, so very grateful we have such an option.

Having said that it's permanent so you better think hard and long.

That is your experience
 

Thank you for Sharing
Not only did my father use a gun
and was successful he left a note
He was a coward
How I want to be home when I feel I can't go
on anymore
I have NO OPTION
I HAVE FOUR CHILDREN
HOW SELFISH OF HIM
A coward indeed
I managed to forgive him
In Jesus I trust

Hi Icelander and welcome to the forum.

You sound like a very compassionate, intelligent and forgiving person.
Like Eva, I lost an only son to suicide, gun in mouth many years ago.

I believe we suffer differently depending on whether you are a child who has lost a parent to suicide or are a parent who loses a child that way.

I understand the difference and am watching and listening carefully to this surviving now man who believes that his father, my wonderful son, was a selfish coward.

Hugs for the room. :grouphug:

I can only imagine the pain of losing a child; then to have your grandson feel as he does. I hope for both of you; he will grow in understanding and forgiveness.

Some years ago, one of my daughters who suffered from cocaine addiction; was in a downward spiral. She had a friend who had a gun. My daughter spoke of wanting to put the gun in her mouth and end it.
Emotional pain can be just as devastating as physical pain. As a mother; all I could do was offer her support and did a lot of praying. My daughter has been drug free for many years; but the mood swings are always present. For today; she is doing well.


Gerry

I would not dare attempt to speak for anyone else, as this is purely a personal thing, but Im afraid that if your friend is in such pain that they are hell bent on ending their life then sadly there is very little you can do other than be there as a shoulder to lean on & hope that is enough from day to day. I am in your friends situation where a cycling related injury has taken me from a very fit active man into an empty vessel who thinks about suicide on a daily basis. I care about what it would do to my close family & friends, & that has stopped an attempt on more than one occasion, but ultimately, suicide for me would bring the relief that I have not felt for a few years. Fear along with a failed attempt has kept me in the position of waiting to find out if surgery will help my position, but I know for certain, that personally, I can not live the rest of my life like 'this'. In this situation, there are many friends & family members who help me, sometimes simply by talking to me via phone message. There are a couple who come to me for advice & I like that. Being a shoulder to lean on myself, helps keep us both upright... Apologies, that was the long way of saying that all you can do is listen, communicate & simply be there for them & hope that is enough... I wish you & your friend the very best...

Andy I do understand where you are coming from and bumped of the other thread because it is about choices. Our son Michael was 31 years old and healthy when he impulsively put that gun in his mouth. Healthy physically but obviously depressed.

I'm glad you are here talking....we are listening. Hugs for the room.

Thank you. I am truly sorry for your loss. Its a blessing & a curse that we can not aquire firearms in England...

I can totally relate to the thinking suicide in "rational and logic way". The pain just doesn't stop... ever. Gimme a break my goodness.

I guess that I never expected to be here again but I'm back for now....I've been ill for a long, long time, for those of you who don't know me. For those of you who do know me, I'm sorry that I'm back....Along with facing my Maker every day, today I learned that my adoptive mom was just diagnosed with ovarian cancer. I lost my birth mom years ago...when I was a teen and, eventually, my adoptive parents found me. They taught me everything in the world that I know about love and loving and being good. I still cry for my birth mom everyday; today, when I was talking to my adoptive mom, all I could do was cry. She, on the other hand, is all upbeat and okay with it. She has complete faith that she'll be okay, one way or the other. In my head, I guess I know that....I just wish that I could convince my heart. I lost my mom, my mother-in-law and now my adoptive mom who loves me as if I were truly her own. I just can't shake this....I know that I have to be okay with it, too, but I just can't be today. She hasn't told their "real kids"....my youngest brother is getting married in a few weeks and she doesn't want this over the wedding. I think I was safe to tell because I live in the Midwest and they all live on the East Coast. I just feel very alone and lost right now.

dear blessed soul

i cannot take away your fear
of loosing someone that has
loves taught you love and continues to love
YOU and your brother
blessed are you to know love
not only form your birth mother
but also of this beautiful person you speak of
i am in awe of her upbeat mode
i a breast cancer survivor 4 more years of
Tamoxifen
what i want you to know
i had two birth parents
my father committed suicide
i was nineteen
my birth mother
would look the other way
whenever terrible things went on
mainly i took the brunt of it all
i am the oldest of three
and i come to learn in my
adult years
the same happened to my sister

the precious time spent with your loved ones
let that run through your veins
i do not mean your feeling of
the possible loss will not hurt
the end on this earth inevitably
comes to an end one day
only to truly be home
i want you to continue to feel the
Love from your beautiful mother in your life
now

i have four children
a grand child
a dog
i love soooooooooooo much
i have to be very careful what i wish for
as i want to be home
it will all be in Gods time to be brought home
not mine
i promised my children
love her
remember her smell
hold her hand when you tell her you love her
she will be taken care of
and will fight and do everything to live
she is alive
now
and so are you
you your soul blessed
twice
love
me

Hugs to you dear girl,
You have alot of friends here who love you
((((((HUGS)))))
bizi

bizi is right hippie chick. You are not alone and your dear mother is the true definition of what a mother feels for her children. I love and admire this woman and you, her wonderful daughter. :hug:

Thank you. I try for compassion and empathy at every turn. There is not enough of that in our world. I have great compassion and now empathy for those who feel that suicide is their best or only option. IMO it's rarely a cowardly act but certainly can be. But I'll never try to second guess what another is feeling and I believe it's only logical that each person should be in charge of their own life and make their own decisions. For the person in unrelenting pain it can be a blessing in the extreme.

And here's something to consider. A child living with a parent who is depressed and in extreme pain and has almost no energy to give might be affected negatively by that. Just as much as losing that parent. Children need a lot of nurturing.

If a person is rational and logical then they are in the right position to evaluate their situation and chart the best course for themselves. Guns or hanging are used in most successful suicide attempts and although it seems harsh it's a logical choice for someone who is serious and does not want to risk more unreliable choices that could leave one in worse shape than before the attempt.

It's dangerous to attempt suicide when you are unsure of your methods. And while I never advise anyone on this choice I do honor their right to choose and hold no ill feelings about it. They are logically in a better position to evaluate their situation then I could ever be.