Can I just live with herniated discs?
 

Hi All,

I've had herniated discs, caused by back injury, for over a year. Conservative treatment has not worked and the pain has started to radiate into the bottom of my left heel. No problems with incontinence, though.

My PT thinks I need surgery. Thing is, after the way I was mistreated by doctors after a serious MVA, I HATE them. I mean, REALLY hate them.

If I don't treat these discs, provided I can suck up the pain, can I just carry on? I'm already disabled and limited, so it's not much of a lifestyle adjustment. ;)

Hi Hockey,

Wish I had an answer for you and am wondering the same thing myself, the pain is awful.

Ditto with the being mistreated by Dr's, my old one was awful, did nothing and I was crying saying how much pain I was in, put off tests for months and months, another told me if you're in that much pain you'd try anything when I asked questions about steroid injections :( I felt so awful.

My pain was originally in my neck and left arm, now it's in my left leg/foot too so spreading.

Hope you get answers and feel much better, this is hell!

When I had my first, terrible MVA, the neurologist was outraged because I wouldn't take narcotics. I can see their value for terminal or short term acute pain, but I was looking at injuries that would NEVER resolve completely and would need to be managed for the rest of my life. Like I needed to add drug addict to my list of problems.

That doctor didn't want to help me; he wanted to make me a docile zombie. :mad:

Now I can't bear the thought of even seeing a doctor. My life is miserable enough without having some "healer" belittling my suffering. I am a VERY tough customer: (breezed through natural childbirth, have dental work without freezing)if I saw it hurts, it darn well does.

I would get more information
 

I'm sorry to read that both of you have been mistreated by your doctors. It's very difficult to find a doctor who will spend time with each patient and discuss alternatives, too.

If I were in your position, knowing what I know now (post ACDF surgery), I'd get as much information about my condition as I could. Have you had an MRI? I'd try to get consultations with two different neurosurgeons to learn all of the treatment options, their approaches, and their own patient outcomes (successes, complications, etc.). No one is perfect and every surgery has its risk, but you want someone who knows how to reduce risk and address any complications that might arise. Also review the hospital they operate out of.

The fact that your pain is spreading is of concern. I'd get that consultation sooner rather than later.

Best wishes to both of you.

Yes!! I hear you.

So sorry about your MVA, they sure can change your whole, in one second it's done and you suffer.

I also wouldn't say I was in pain if I wasn't, who wants this to be going on...

My Dr acted insulted when I said I didn't want to be taking such high doses of pain pills....how's about we find out what can be done about all this pain me thinks...

Actually, Vicodin doesn't help, only Percocet but not going to take them all the time. She also kept going on about the steroid injections, "all my other patients beg me for more and have them all the time"...that's all she wanted, for me to be drugged up or keep having injections for ever, just go away and don't come back that's how it felt, not good enough for me I'm afraid.

I'm the same way, childbirth...oh, no drugs for me thank you ha ha ho ho...I can stand pain, but this is nothing like I've ever felt before, horrendous. All day pain, all I think of is please take this pain away.

Had to go to a physiatrist yesterday and got so worked up about it for days, even cried I'll admit it, this is not me at all, I'm usually everything's going to be okay, let's get on with it but now Dr's upset me so much, get such anxiety going and feel sick to my stomach.

I dread going to any as I don't trust them, sat and broke down yesterday in front of the Dr and he looked at me like I was nuts, I kept thinking don't do it, don't do it!!! and here it comes...can't help it.

I totally hear you, so sorry you are suffering and I hope someone out there will help you, big hugs.....

Yes, I wasn't overly impressed by the outcomes, when I researched the surgical options. I don't expect to be able to do back flips off the diving board. I just want a more endurable level of discomfort.

get several opinions
 

I am new to this board, I have some mild bulging and herniation, but a great deal of incapacitating pain, having had numbness and restrictions for 5 years prior on how long I could stand, walk, etc., but I could live with it without drugs or injections. It ever occurred to me that it would progress to the level of intractable pain and disability I have now. Please try to get a course of action in place before it gets worse. I was never a candidate for discectomy, but I wish I was. If I were you I would get several opinions and not necessarily from just surgeons. I think simple herniations
are more easily dealt with if you don't put it off, ive been warned that longer term nerve impingement and irritation ca lead to permanent damage. I just had a great phone consult about my mri with a chiropractor and professional spine researcher I found online, and he read mt MRI so much more thoroughly than any doctor I've seen and ive probably got more options than I realized. Its very clear to me now what diagnostics I need before doing the discography and fusion that th surgeon said was all he could offer me. I dont know if im allowed to give his info or endorse here, but so grateful I found his site with so much info.

get several opinions
 

I am new to this board, I have some mild bulging and herniation, but a great deal of incapacitating pain, having had numbness and restrictions for 5 years prior on how long I could stand, walk, etc., but I could live with it without drugs or injections. It ever occurred to me that it would progress to the level of intractable pain and disability I have now. Please try to get a course of action in place before it gets worse. I was never a candidate for discectomy, but I wish I was. If I were you I would get several opinions and not necessarily from just surgeons. I think simple herniations
are more easily dealt with if you don't put it off, ive been warned that longer term nerve impingement and irritation ca lead to permanent damage. I just had a great phone consult about my mri with a chiropractor and professional spine researcher I found online, and he read mt MRI so much more thoroughly than any doctor I've seen and ive probably got more options than I realized. Its very clear to me now what diagnostics I need before doing the discography and fusion that th surgeon said was all he could offer me. I dont know if im allowed to give his info or endorse here, but so grateful I found his site with so much info.

Well, I've been doing it for nigh on a decade now, with no appreciable disc material left in a couple of places. I'm still able to walk (albeit with cane) and have no numbness/paralysis. Some autofusion has occurred, so I assume it's still going on.

I think it's going to depend on your symptoms. We've discussed here several times that the only times surgery is mandated is when there is risk of paralysis, similar serious nerve damage, or death.

Doc

Hi Hockey,

Were are your herniations? Cervical, thoracic, lumbar? More than one of those 3 areas? About 15 years ago, I was told that I needed surgery for my lumbar herniations. I declined surgery. Last September I was told I needed immediate surgery for thoracic problems and herniations. Again, I declined surgery. Time has helped. My MRI's now are better in some aspects, worse in other aspects, and my pain levels usually tolerable without needing oral pain medications. When having higher pain levels I use Lidoderm pain patches. My lumber herniation is much better but I have different problems now with my lumbar region. I am just waiting for my thoracic region to improve on its own.

To answer your question, can you just live with herniated discs? Some people can but it depends on the individual and the specifics. I would get a lot more information before I considered surgery if I were you. And several different opinions. The members that have already posted a response have said most of what can be said. I agree with Doc that surgery is advisable when limited to specific situations.

Wishing you the best. Hope you find the right decision for YOU and your specific situation. I have been fortunate that my hard head saved me from unnecessary surgery because the surgeries proposed it turns out would not have alleviated my pain. It turns out that my other spinal problems, not the herniations, are the cause of my back pains.

I may be singing a different tune in the future, but for now, I am not having back surgery.

The herniation is in my lumbar spine. However, I have had terrible pain since a previous MVA left me with, among other things, a hip twist injury, from the seat belt, and an unstable neck. At the time, the neurosurgeon told me it would be too dangerous to insert stabilization rods. Basically, I'm a mess.

I am so sorry about your MVA and the resulting injuries that have left you "a mess". I don't know if this will apply to your situation or not but you may find some "hope" in it. Many times, herniations will repair themselves in time. The lumbar herniation that you currently have could heal itself, especially if it is not related to your other MVA injuries. How long ago did your lumbar herniation appear on your MRI? For some reason, in my mind, I was thinking that it has appeared later and is not a part of your MVA injuries. But then sometimes, I just "think" things without any basis for them.

Wishing you less painful days and self repair of your lumbar herniation.

I've had lower back pain since my initial MVA, but that was from the twist injury, not herniation. The hernitation came about 15 months ago, as a result of violent braking and evasive maneuvers to avoid an elderly driver who blew through a stop sign, leading onto a rural highway.

Conservative treatment (rest, PT) haven't worked. The PT never thought it would, as, due to extensive MVA nerve damage, I can't develop the core strength that would help stabilize the region.

While the herniation wasn't fun, I could deal with it, pretty well, until the reflected pain in the foot started a couple weeks ago. Still, in time, I'm sure I can become accustomed to that, too - and stop crying out. :icon_redface:

I hate it
 

I hate it! I hate it! I hate it! I trust doctors, i take gabapentin 300mg tramadol 50mg naproxin 600 mg im barely getting an mri i look like im leaning to one side and i feel that if i keep walking w/ comfort i'll develop a hunchback! I wore a backbrace for months! And only meds make the pain go away! My life,future looks ruined by a farshot :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:( im only 22!

I've learned NOT to trust doctors.:mad:

Oh my god. I have the foot pain and terrible cramping, too. I feel like I could handle everything else, but that is debilitating. I have not been able to stand or walk for more than a few minutes at a time for almost a month. Sitting is very short intervals.

Does it feel like someone is drilling into your heel, with a hot poker?

I can only rest, for short intervals, when I'm overcome with exhaustion and, hubby says, I'm groaning and crying in my sleep. :(

I went through the whole Lyrica nightmare, after my MVA, and I don't want to take drugs, again. However, added to my other pain, this is really pushing me to the end of my endurance.

Maybe walking with a cane would help?

Don't give up
 

Dear Rabbit and also Hockey, I'm so sorry you are going through this. I am now 53 and I first broke my spine when I was 16 after coming off my horse. I had my 1st spine fusion then and despite my regular falls and various accidents that fusion got me through to my 30's. The 2nd & 3rd fusion gave me another 15 years and my 4th fusion last year once I get these winkles with a 5th this year soon sorted I'm positive will give me another 15 years.

I experienced not being believed or listened to by doctors long before I fell off my horse, including being put in hospital for pneumonia instead of a spine fracture. Even then, it took a week to realise my spine was fractured and that only after I collapsed to the floor when the nurse insisted I get up and walk.

I too had a back brace after the 1st spine surgery and I wore it for what seemed a long time. It became a comfort, but I realised I could do better without it and I forced myself to walk with better posture. Sadly I have a degenerative spine and my active lifestyle of sport and fitness has not helped. No regrets though.

I have had some terrible experiences with the medical field and I have learned the hard way not to put my faith in them. They do not have all the answers, they are infallible and they do make mistakes.

My head on MVA in 2004 ruined my life (not my fault) and the subsequent court case took 6 years. I was diagnosed with PTSD and still suffer with extreme anxiety attacks.

It is our responsibility to search and find someone who will explain to you your condition and what outcomes are best for you. Don't be brushed off with meds or platitudes. When making your appointments tell the receptionist you want a long appointment, even if it means you have to pay for 2 visits in the one. You can go onto my page and read my earlier posts if you are interested.

I guess what I'm trying to say is it looked very grim for me at 16, I also had partial paralysis for a while with it. But I soldiered on and forged a life for myself, being so ill gave me time to look where my life was going and what I could do to change things. Changing from the quietly rebellious teenager to an accepting wallflower and finally to someone who could stand on her own 2 feet and live a good life.

There are some truly brilliant doctors out there and now with the help of the internet and social media you are in a good place to research and find a quality doctor who is willing to spend the time and invest in your future.

Pain is something I have lived with now for most of my life, I have been on an d off strong medication for the last 18 years and at times deliberately stopped only to be told I have to take it again if I want to function and get out there and live. I was fortunate for years to have a job I truly loved which kept my mind occupied enough to not dwell on pain. Following a seizure and sustaining spine fractures to my thoracic region I had to resign and I now have nothing going on to take my mind off the pain. In January I agreed to an increase in pain meds (up to 120mg) when in hospital but I quickly dropped back to minimal amounts and on avg take 20mg slow release daily. I know if I take more I could probably do better but more drugs causes different problems elsewhere. They are not the only answer, I do believe better posture and carriage will help me and now I'm on a mission to find exercises and a quality physio to help me through this next fusion to get me to my 70's with less hospital visits.

In 2012 I endured the Xanax nightmare. Trust me, the withdrawal from these sent from heaven drugs is painful and extreme. If a drug provides you with sudden pain free or pain less lifestyle benefits be sure you know what the downsides of it are going to be when you or your doctor decide to not take it. Just that knowledge alone may make you decide to not take the drug. I stopped Xanax cold and I am sure it caused me to have a grand mal seizure in which I fractured 4 vertebrae and 2 ribs. Not long after that I was prescribed Lyrica and by January 2013 I painstakingly held my ground through titrating down on it. Strangely, I have taken DF118 or oxy for 20 years and never suffered withdrawal from it?

I began using a cane in 2010, no black or brown number, it's eye catching and hard to miss so I don't get pushed around by mindless people in crowds so much anymore, there is the occasional idiot but on the whole, the cane has helped me with stabilising my gait and making me take the time to walk better.

Pamela, that is quite a story, I asked in another thread how you came to have your first fusion, etc., but I think I got it now! Wanted to ask about your experience with Lyrica. I am still working on getting my diagnosis and plan sorted out, but in the meantime taking Neurontin, which I started at a low dose but up to about 500 mg 3 times a day, and I dont think its helping. Was considering asking to try Lyrica since its supposed to be better, more refined version of the similar gabapentin, but the side effects scare me a little. So far I don't think ive had any on the neurontin. I have a ton of nerve pain and living mostly in bed the past month. I could handle all of it but its the resulting foot cramping that puts me over the top. Should I avoid the Lyrica?

My experience with Lyrica was HORRENDOUS. If you search on the word, you will find a number of threads/posts about that drug. Few are complimentary.

Omg, thanks. Ugh. I have been avoiding pharmaceuticals for many years, but I felt like I had to try some stuff in this crisis. Im still unable to be vertical for very long for almost a month, now, can't afford not to be working.

I hear you! I am at the point where I'm being overwhelmed by the pain, but the alternatives are pretty unattractive. Among other things, I have a young family and can't be drugged into a stupor. :(

I thought i would add my two cents about lyrica. Iv been on it now for 4 months and do admit it does help dull the nerve pain. Im on 150mg twice a day. Im still off work and feel pain but its not as intense as it is without. My doctor wanted me to go on higher dose but i decline because of the side effects. Those side effects are short term memory loss, time lapsing, forgetting what im doing, cognitive ability has decline and my vision is blurry. But for me at the moment those negatives are probably worth it for the pain reduction. If i had to work i wouldnt be on it though, especially if your in job where you needed to be alert. Also getting off it can be extremely hard so be warned.

That's the understatement of the century.

I really wish people would stop demonizing narcotics. They work and are medically appropriate for controlling pain. Not everyone who pops a pain pill becomes "addicted". In fact very few do. I have been taking an increasing dosage of hydrocodone for the past three years. Not once have I ever experienced a "high" - only pain relief. I don't think I am addicted since I can (and do) easily reduce my usage when the pain is not so severe. The only thing I may be "addicted" to is pain relief. But if you have a hang up about using "narcs" then maybe your pain isn't insufferable like the pain of those who do need this medication. And yes, there are people who may be using narcotic pain relievers for the rest of their lives without a problem.

I think the use of narcotics can be 100% appropriate.
What I didn't like was that they were my neurologist's default solution. As I will have pain for the rest of my life, and I have a TBI, which puts me at a statistically significant risk for addiction, I'm not sure they're the best alternative, in MY case.

Jeesh! What makes you think you would be "drugged into a stupor"? Please have an intelligent conversation with someone who actually uses effective opioid pain medications like hydrocodone. The correct dosage and usage will not send you into a stupor. Don't rely on superstition and half-truths or propaganda.

I apologize for sounding judgmental. Its just that I cannot function without pain meds due to hernias in 8 spinal discs. I get worked up when people try to portray legitimate narco usage as something bad. PAIN is bad - pain is the enemy and anything we can do to combat it is GOOD.

[QUOTE=Imito;1082896]Jeesh! What makes you think you would be "drugged into a stupor"? Please have an intelligent conversation with someone who actually uses effective opioid pain medications like hydrocodone. The correct dosage and usage will not send you into a stupor. Don't rely on superstition and half-truths or propaganda.[/QUOTE

A lot of TBI patients DO run into trouble with opiates. We have altered brain chemistry and poor impulse control. I also live in an area where prescription opiate abuse is a REAL problem and, frankly, I don't know if I could trust the "new" me. What your brain and my brain can handle are very different things - and my neurologist should know that. He was too eager to bring out the heavy artillery and dismiss alternatives like massage, TENS, acupuncture, etc...

A lot of TBI patients DO run into trouble with opiates. We have altered brain chemistry and poor impulse control. I also live in an area where prescription opiate abuse is a REAL problem and, frankly, I don't know if I could trust the "new" me. What your brain and my brain can handle are very different things - and my neurologist should know that. He was too eager to bring out the heavy artillery and dismiss alternatives like massage, TENS, acupuncture, etc...[/QUOTE]

Point well made and well taken. Sometimes knee-jerk reactions are not the best. You are absolutely correct - we are all built differently.

I honestly wish you the best and hope you will find a way to manage your pain that will also allow you to lead a full and productive life. Good luck, and please do share any effective treatments that you find. It might be helpful to others.

As far as the drug abusers, I have no use for them. Their need to get high and or use drugs for fun has ruined it for those with real need for pain relief. I may lead a sheltered life, but I have never encountered prescription opiate abusers and it is not a real big problem where I live. Sometimes we get tunnel vision and view the rest of the world through our own narrow prism.