Doing HBOT in mexico, I think it is working, bus ride might be making it worse
 

Hi,

This is my first post, so glad to have found this forum. brief history. I am on a 16

month leave of absence from work. I gave myself my first concussion last

august, 10 days into LOA :(. was going to travel the world. first concuss was

much better by november so I decided to come to puerto vallarta to rest a while

in a warmer climate. I gave myself another concussion in march :( most of my

symptoms from the first one where gone, but still had a few. second one is

worse, screens hurt my head where they didn't on my first one. anyway, I

found out about hbot through some research and found out the actually have

a chamber down here. it is 5 times cheaper than in canada and the states

$40 a session compared to $200. So I was quite excited to try. I have had 7

Sessions so far. the results are mixed, I noticed almost right away I could

have more meaningful conversations and actually concentrate on what I was

saying and not forget things, my head felt clearer while doing it to. The only

downside I see is I have to take one of the rickety old buses about 30 min to

get there, you are being bumped around the whole time, it is not good. I am

thinking it is doing more bad than the hbot is doing good. to further muddle

it is doing any good is the fact that I think I contracted some kind of bug a

couple weeks ago. at least I think it was a bug. it could be pcs flaring up I am

not sure, I was fine, well with my normal pcs symptoms until a couple weeks

ago when I drove out to a friends place in his car. it was bumpy and I don't

do well with bumpy. the next day I was walking to the store and all of sudden

my head felt full, it was like I was under water, my hearing was different to. I

felt a little dizzy. I came home and rested and haven't felt really better from

since. I get nausea in the mornings. I had vertigo once. I went to a doc and

they gave me some parasite pills you take for 3 days but they didn't do

anythng. see then ordered a blood lab to see if there was any bacteria etc,

that was clean except my cholesteral was 221, not bad for a 47 year old, and

I am not over weight. she tried to tell me that was causing all my symptoms

wrote me a script for a statin...I haven't taken any as I really don't think that

is it. anyway, I went to a TNE guy after I had vertigo on morning in my bed.

he could recreate it in his office but gave me a script for serc. haven't had

vertigo since but lots of dizzyness especially if I move around to fast. mostly

in the mornings that bothers me. I am wondering if I should continue to take

rickety bouncy old bus to get hbot or not. it is so cheap here I feel compelled

get it. but I don't want to do more damage to myself. I would appreciate any

and all opinions because I feel all alone with this down here. my plan was to

40 treatments and then fly home to canada. mexico is not a great place to

have a concussion as it is loud, it is just a loud culture. I apologize if this is a

little long, thanks in advance.

Hi,

I am going to post this again single space but space between paragraphs, is that the proper way? I know we all have problems reading screens to varioous degrees so I apologize in a advance if this is still incorrect. I couldn't find an edit button, so I am just replying. thanks,

This is my first post, so glad to have found this forum. brief history. I am on a 16
month leave of absence from work. I gave myself my first concussion last
august, 10 days into LOA . was going to travel the world. first concuss was
much better by november so I decided to come to puerto vallarta to rest a while
in a warmer climate. I gave myself another concussion in march most of my
symptoms from the first one where gone, but still had a few.

Second one is worse, screens hurt my head where they didn't on my first one. anyway, I
found out about hbot through some research and found out the actually have
a chamber down here. it is 5 times cheaper than in canada and the states
$40 a session compared to $200. So I was quite excited to try. I have had 7
Sessions so far. the results are mixed, I noticed almost right away I could
have more meaningful conversations and actually concentrate on what I was
saying and not forget things, my head felt clearer while doing it to. The only
downside I see is I have to take one of the rickety old buses about 30 min to
get there, you are being bumped around the whole time, it is not good. I am
thinking it is doing more bad than the hbot is doing good.

To further muddle the situation
is the fact that I think I contracted some kind of bug a
couple weeks ago. at least I think it was a bug. it could be pcs flaring up I am
not sure, I was fine, well with my normal pcs symptoms until a couple weeks a
go when I drove out to a friends place in his car. it was bumpy and I don't
do well with bumpy. the next day I was walking to the store and all of sudden
my head felt full, it was like I was under water, my hearing was different to. I
felt a little dizzy. I came home and rested and haven't felt really better from
since.

I get nausea in the mornings. I had vertigo once. I went to a doc and
they gave me some parasite pills you take for 3 days but they didn't do
anything. see then ordered a blood lab to see if there was any bacteria etc,
that was clean except my cholesterol was 221, not bad for a 47 year old, and
I am not overweight. she tried to tell me that was causing all my symptoms
wrote me a script for a statin...I haven't taken any as I really don't think that
is it. anyway, I went to a TNE guy after I had vertigo on morning in my bed.
he could recreate it in his office but gave me a script for serc. haven't had
vertigo since but lots of dizzyness especially if I move around to fast. mostly
in the mornings that bothers me.

I am wondering if I should continue to take
rickety bouncy old bus to get hbot or not. it is so cheap here I feel compelled
get it. but I don't want to do more damaand all opinions because I feel all alone with this down here. my plan was to
40 treatments and then fly home to canada. mexico is not a great place to
have a concussion as it is loud, it is just a loud culture. I apologize if this is a
little long, thanks in advance.

for 40 bucks a pop you might as well finish off 40 sessions. Don't worry too much about the rickety bus. It might do nothing or it might help a bunch. If there was one around here for 40 bucks I would do it. Others may disagree and they may be right. In the end it is your decision

That's what I was thinking Mark. I was so excited when I found out they actually had a chamber here. Then when I found out it was out by the marina (I am in old town for those who are familiar with pv) about a 25-30 bus ride I kind of moaned. I had taken the bus once back in november before I got my second concussion and was doing pretty good after my first. after the bus ride I felt like I had a major setback and it took me more than a few days to get back to where I was. Now taking it everyday I am worried I am just scrambling my brain even more. The combination of no shocks and cobblestone roads, yikes. But like you said hbot for $40 a session is almost to good to pass up. I guess I will continue on for a while more and see how it goes.Thanks for the input though, it's always good to see how someone else views the situation.

I would not risk the 30 minute bouncy ride for the off chance that HBOT may help. The short term improvements are due to the hyper-oxygenated blood. It takes 40 to 80 treatments to start to see a sustainable improvement, if at all.

Nothing is worth putting up with a sustained bouncy ride in my experience.

btw, The best format for a post is single spaced with a double space every 5 or 6 lines. Your 10 line paragraphs are a struggle.

I agree with Mark in Idaho. You have already had 2 concussions. Don't take any chances with the bus ride. Nobody can say for sure whether those bumpy rides are causing any damage or not. But it's certainly not worth it when there are 40 sessions involved and you have to bear those bumps everyday for 40-80 days. The improvement is probably temperory as Mark said. I have the same sensitivity to head from bumps.

I wonder why we have to worry about these bumps when a football player can take countless sub concussive hits to his head after having sustained a concussion and do just fine because he isn't hitting his head enough to cause any further damage and they can take those hits over and over again daily for months. Why do we have to worry about those stupid potholes and bumps when we aren't even hitting our head like those careless football players. They run they fall they hit their head helmet to helmet they head kick the football so many times and still appear to be fine after a concussion. We just take a bump from road and worry so much.

I think anxiety is a part of this but still you don't take any chances buddy..good luck

nobody is going to say they are hurting when they are making multi millions of dollars and there is a guy very hungry to take your job standing 10 feet away on the sideline. Hence the outbreak of severe mental, cognitive, and physical problems hitting football players as young as in their 40s and the leagues decision to pay billions and billions of dollars in a settlement with the retired players and the colleges to make a huge settlement with the ex players. they payed the price with the rest of the years of their lives. Not to mention the numerous suicides and subsequent studies on the deceased ones brain showing encephalopathy

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I hear you about the possible damage from the bumpy bus ride. I am trying to find some place cheap to stay at out close to the hbot clinic so I can walk to the sessions. I so wish it was in town where I could walk to it. Will let you know how it goes.

Galaxy, You don't understand the football issue. It is the cumulative sub-concussive impacts that does the worst damage. It is a slow developing damage. It does not manifest immediately like a concussion. But, those sub-concussive impacts are maybe once or twice per play with time between plays. The bumpy road is a continuous series of sub-concussive impacts with no break in between. It can be much worse than a game's or practice's accumulation of subconcussive impacts.

btw, The NFL only paid out $700 million in their settlement. The NCAA is only paying $70 million with only a portion going to the injured players.

I get you Mark. I think my basic understanding of sub concussive impacts is not clear here, I apologise. I always thought that direct sub concussive impacts to head are more riskier and damaging than those that we get from road bumps. Moreover an athlete or a football player runs aggressively during a play which sends several impacts to his head, faces several violent body to body impacts and falls down many times. The nature of sports is very violent and inhuman so shouldn't that be causing damage more quicker and intense than just travelling in a bus and those bumps slightly shaking our heads back and forth? I hope I am not sounding too stupid here, pardon me if I do. Also I think for those bumps to cause any damage, the road has to be extremely bumpy and rough throughout the journey and the suspension of the vehicle must be in a very poor condition to cause damage to the brain, if any. Otherwise this doesn't make much sense to me if you compare it with the damage caused in a sport like football. My understanding could be wrong altogether here!

i responded tot your football question a few posts earlier in this thread. as for how dangerous the road bumps are, I have no idea so I'm keeping my two cents out.

In football, the angle of force is constantly changing. Plus, the spine is very good at absorbing impacts, especially when running on your toes, like football players do. So, the immediate symptoms are not as severe. In a bumpy ride, the spine transmits a vertical impact with little break. I speak from experience. I get beat up horribly on our mountain roads so I have to be very careful. I have to lean forward and hunch my shoulder so I have more flexibility and shock absorbing in my spine.

sorry about that

markneil
you need to please provide links for those copy paste snips to be in compliance with our copyright guidelines.

We are not allowed to let members paste info from copyright sites other than a short snip, with link, and full attribution

Please add this asap so that we can be in compliance
thanks

I deleted the whole message. sorry about that . noted for the future.

How bumpy are we talking here? Is this something we should all be concerned about, even when driving on city roads? Up north even big city roads can have a fair amount of bumps and potholes from a harsh winter...

Just to throw my 2 cents about bumpy roads:

After my last concussion (Dec 2012) I spent about 3 months suffering from PCS which was slowly resolving.

Right at about 3 month mark I felt well enough to think that an easy snowmobile ride isn't going to hurt anything as long as I don't hit my head. So I went out for a fun day of riding, tried to take it easy, although I did let it rip through a couple of bumpy sections (as they say - the faster you go, less bumpy it is :)

Well, I found out very quickly how wrong I was. The first night after going snowmobiling all hell broke loose and it got way worse than after the concussion.
This was over a year ago and I'm very slowly recovering from that "setback".
This past winter I was extremely sensitive to bumpy roads to the point where I would spend weeks working from home every time it snowed to let roads settle down (I live in Alaska).

My PT doc thinks it's all in my neck, and I do hope it is the case as I've been working with an AO chiro and doing PT to fix this.

How can these bumps cause setbacks and delayed recovery I am still puzzled..I don't doubt the setback stories in this post..people on here are way more knowledgeable and experienced than I am but for any damage to happen, the brain has to strike against the skull with great force if I am not wrong...events like running, bumpy rides, gentle head impacts which have been reported to have caused setbacks don't possess such a great amount of force to make the brain strike the skull from inside, if you understand what I mean...there could be something else happening I am unaware of...Its hard to believe that brain gently touching the skull while in a bumpy ride or running can cause return of symptoms although I know it's true and often happens in most of us..damn this is crazy..is there a way out of this hell?? Does this **** get better? Will we be able to at least travel ever?

There is nothing gentle on the brain about a bumpy ride. Concussions are not just caused by the brain banging against the skull. A diffuse axonal injury includes parts of the brain than never can touch the skull. The up and down of a bumpy ride can push the brain into the brain stem area. Those connections are very critical.

If you don't believe us, go ahead, knock yourself out. Take a bumpy ride and see how you feel afterward.

btw, The occasional bump in the road is not the issue. It is the repetitive nature of a bumpy road that is.

Mark, I don't have to believe this because I experience it myself and know its true...I have had a couple of setbacks myself after those bumpy rides and know that such events bring back the symptoms. I was just unsure of how it happens because the mechanism is difficult to understand.

Btw, I am curious to know how you and others feel while having one of those bumpy rides ? Can you try to explain the feeling ? Maybe I can relate ? Also do you think taking anti inflammatories can improve this problem ?

When I'm not the driver, I wear a cervical collar in the car. It stabilizes my neck against the pot holes (craters, really) on our bumpy, rural roads and would save me from another whiplash if, heaven forbid, I was in another accident.

Unfortunately, I can't wear it when driving, as that would nullify my insurance.

I tried another session yesterday morning. I found the bus ride worse than ever. I am not taking another bus. heck even the cabs down here are pretty bumpy because the roads are so bumpy. this so sucks. I definitely feel much worse than I did a week ago before I started taking the bus out to the clinic. I am looking for a place out by the clinic but the logistics of it all kind of overwhelm me. I am thinking of just heading back to vancouver, but the logistics of that overwhelm me to...I am supposed to be back to work by january, but I don't see that happening by the way I am feeling right now. thanks for the replies.

I haven't got a clue if they're any good, but there are private TBI clinics in Vancouver, like NeuroKinetics Health Services. They do alternative stuff, like Biophotonic stimulation. Does anybody even know what that is?

Hockey,

I think you wear a cervical collar, not a clerical collar. I don't think you are a member of the clergy. Fun mistake. A brain fart. We all have them.

LOL That's a fabulous TBI typo. Not that some divine intervention wouldn't help my recovery.:ROTFLMAO:

Rough brain day, today: forgot about an appointment and ruined dinner. Oh well, the sun can't shine everyday.

Hi all, I thought I should update this thread, since I started it. I finally found a place close to the hbot clinic. I moved out here a couple of weeks ago I think. I am up to 21 treatments as of this morning, I am usually doing 2 a day, one at 11am one at 6pm monday to friday. So far I have noticed no positive change. Sometimes I even think I feel worse, but that could be due to a lot of other things I guess.

I guess I will continue and do the 40 sessions as that seems to be recommended by most hbot experts. It is expensive but not even close to what it would cost in the US. The 40 sessions are costing me a little under $1700 US as compared to $8-10k in the US and Canada. So even if it doesn't work I can at least say I tried and not be always wondering if it would have made a difference.

The only thing I am not sure of is the almost week long break I took while I was looking for a place close to the clinic. I had done 7 or 8 sessions then took about a week off and then started again. I am not sure if I should do 40 sessions from the time I started or from the time starting after the week off.

I still have all my symptoms, screens (computer, tv, ereader) hurt my head, but I find later in the day I can watch tv quite a bit, and I am on the computer more than I should be. But I get so lonely and depressed here by myself if I can't watch some tv or surf a bit. I am much more isolated out here than I was down town Puerto vallarta where I had a lot of friends.

They offer to come out and visit but I turn them down a lot because I can't handle long indepth conversations very well. it was easier to have short conversations and then go home down town, if they come out here it's like I have to entertain them for the afternoon. in the evenings I am much better than in the mornings, it seems I get better as the day progresses, mornings are usually hell.

My biggest problem is sleep, I just don't know what to take for sleep anymore. when I got my first concussion last aug I was on elavil which worked but had to many side effects, then I was on trazodone for about 6 months, it worked ok but now it makes my left leg twitch when I am trying to get to sleep so I gave that up about 4 months ago.

I hate to say it but since you don't really need a script for drugs here in mexico I have been using benzo's more than I would like, ativan and valium take away my stress (heck valium takes away just about every pcs symptom) and help me sleep. but I know they are so addictive. I usually try to at least take them ever other day if I need them, sometimes every 3rd day.

What else can I try for sleep? I have tried a lot of natural stuff but non of it works very well. and sometimes I have so much anxiety and depression thinking I am never going to get better I just want to take a valium and make it all go away, at least for a little while.

But I have noticed that both ativan and valium make my memory worse so that is a little scary, it comes back after I stop taking them for a day or so but still.

Ok, enough rambling, I hope everyone else in PCS land is having as good a day as they can. I just want to stay positive and know at some point things will get better. I will keep you posted on the hbot sessions.

good luck bro. at least you could say you tried it and gives the rest of us a heads up at a discount. be careful wth valium it is a slippery slope.
I haven't slept well for eight years an cyclobenzaprine and ambien did the trick. it might even be just the cyclobenzaprine. again, goo luck and keep us informed. I'm still waiting to heaer from the guy who went to get the eternacept injections. ciao

Well just finished session 22, feel not to bad tonight, when for a nice stroll around the marina tonight...I guess if you have to be trapped somewhere with a concussion it could be in a worse place then puerto vallarta :).

Oh, I wanted to share this in case anyone wasn't aware, there is an hbot study going on now at LSU in New Orleans, they are accepting applications. I have already applied. It is an all expense paid 2 month (1 hbot session a day m-f for 8 weeks) study, they will fly you there and cover accommodations and food. It is being put on by the Harch clinic, it would be great if someone here got in it.

I tried to post the link but you have to have 10 posts to post a link. just google hbot study and it will come up. the url is hhbottbistudy.org, I think it will let me post that.

Hey markneil I am glad you found a combination that is working for you for sleep. It gave me an idea. I have some ambien, I took it a while ago a couple times, just a half a pill because I had heard about these people that got up and did things like drive and stuff when they took it, but the half pill made me sleep till about 3am.

I am going to try a whole pill tonight, if it works I think I will take it for 2 or 3 nights then, because you get so much rebound insomnia from it, I am going to do an ativan or valium for a night. that way I think I can avoid getting addicted to benzo's and possibly ambien. kind of excited about it actually.

Well I thought I should update this thread. I am back in vancouver now, came back about a week ago. I finished 37 hbot sessions. I am not sure if they helped or not. Where I got them they didn't have pet scans or anything. so all I can go on is how I feel. I think I can look at screens longer, although in the mornings the computer screen and tv can still be an issue. But that is about all I can notice really. I am glad I did it in mexico as i would be much more unhappy if I had of paid 10-12k for hbot sessions and this is how I felt. The hbot unit was a multichamber one so you had to wear a mask, which was a hassle as it was kind of uncomfortable and kind of loud when you breathed in and out, it sounded like you were darth vader or something. I would much prefer a mono chamber where you didn't have to wear a mask.

fabulous. i knew exactly what you meant...didn't even notice the typo