Do your Ankles ever Swell Really Bad Because of PN?
 

This is such a great site...Today's appt w/neurologist was rescheduled to 6/18, so now more waiting...really anxious to see what the blood tests say (probably nothing if they are putting me off an add'l 3 wks)... My foot pain has decreased since I started taking the metanx but it is still there--just not as bad (yeah!). I also started pt and Lyrica was increased so that is probably a factor in the decreased pain too--hard telling which is helping the most at this point. But now thinking it's just a pinched nerve in my back that was never totally resolved...

What is bugging me almost as much as the feet though, is ankle swelling. It started a couple of months ago with slight swelling from the back of each ankle bone to the other. It's now gotten worse to the point that most days I cannot see or feel my ankle bones without pressing firmly. I had the circulation test where they use blood pressure cuffs on all 4 limbs a while back and was deemed to have good circulation. I'm also doing Anodyne therapy which should increase the circulation... Is this something you deal with also or is it not pn related? The only thing that seems to help it go down is elevation but it comes back soon after the feet hit the floor. Suggestions?

i have bad ankle swelling rightnow and have for the last three summers, as soon as the weather gets warm

HeyJoe, thanks. Has yours been determined to be related to pn? I'm just really baffled and quite annoyed by this phenomenon. Nothing like huge CANKLES to make a girl feel sexy. Is there anything you do to help the swelling go down besides elevation? I tried wrapping them but they just swelled up my legs instead of staying at the ankle. Ice only froze my skin grr

Yes
 

Warm weather or if feet hang down to long, and my neuro said this
happens with some of us PRers. Did your feet and ancles start swelling
after any new meds,this happens alot. If you want call Drs. nurse
and explain you want the tests results,your anxious. Then bring up
again. And this is a good site,very nice people. Good luck:) Sue

Oh yes! The 'elevate the...
 

ankle routine!' It gets old FAST!

Yes I've had ankle swelling issues and they are due to the LACK OF EXERCISE we tend to not do-because our feet hurt! and Due to the lack of circulation because we aren't exercising because our FEET HURT! Further due to the lack of circulation in the blood vessels and lymph system our feet SWELL because our feet hurt? Thing is it's proven thru lots of clinical trials that the pain is less and we feel better doing exercises...thing is that it hurts doing it, and if we don't do it right exercise can make it worse...

As for how the vascular, lymph and nervous system act and inter-act with each other this site is good:
http://telemedicine.org/stamford.htm
Look under the Diabetic Neuropathy section...while lots of us aren't diabetic, the process aren't dis-similar.
It's sort of technical, but it is pretty much in the basic English language.
Don't let any photos put you off...of course they always show the most obvious ones..or the worst.
Hope this helps!

dahlek
 

You always come through,i have this saved when you posted it
befor. Thanks again and how right you are about the exercise,:) Sue

Sue, that's what the
 

STICKIES are supposed to be for?

Hugs and I bet you'll get even more out of it after a second read! - j

Well Possumtrot nothing i have tried has reduced the swollen ankles sad to say. Water pills, elevation, ice, cold water,tens and i do exercize and walk through the pain. In my case the swelling makes my feet hurt much worse. The neurologist that i see said it is common for people with PN and based on a few threads and posts here and other places its definitely not uncommon. The reason that they swell as far as i gather is that the electrical signals slow down further on damaged nerves in the heat resulting in blood vessels not reacting correctly and fluid builds up, but like i said water pills did nothing for me. Cankles...haha i like that. Wish I had some answers for you, i look at my ankles and feet sometimes and think to myself they have to be someone else's.

Joe, got it on target!
 

Cankles! Good way to put it!
I did go the Lasix route as well, but my blood pressure went soo low that I wasn't sure I should be alive - and it didn't work anyhow..so I quit that...
To me, it was common sense, the Lasix didn't work, my BP was super low artificially and the swelling didn't go down..DUH? - j

Makes sense when you put it that way. Also sounds like the Anodyne therapy is probably contributing to it too. I asked the pt one time if it could be a reason for the increased swelling and she made me think it had to be somehting else...but then again, I'm confused on whether or not this is really helping me and now they've offered to continue it after my 12 wks are up but I told them I'd need to consider a few things. I did try to talk to dr's nurse to get the results but she is on vacation like he is. sigh Guess I'll just wait... I have a water pill in with my hbp meds but obviously it is not enough. Will ask about changing water pill amt when I go back to gp next week for checkup to get bp and choles. meds refills.

Dahlek, as always, y'all provide links that surpass my poor basic google skills. Thanks!

What is tens?

Ankle Swelling
 

I also take Lyrica and do Anodyne Therapy with a home unit that I bought after going through physical therapy. If you have been offered another 12 weeks, I sure would take them up on it. While I don't use mine every day, if I have been on my feet for any length of time, I use it and can sure tell the difference. I honestly do not see how this therapy contributes to the swelling. I have been on Lyrica for over a year now, and I do not have any swelling, but other people on this board that have tried Lyrica have had to stop taking it because of swelling. So, might just be the medication as you did not mention that this had been suggested to you.

I hope this information helps in some way.:)

TENS is transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation. Electricity is used to stimulate nerves which helps with pain and sometimes inflammation. It is a small home unit, that most insurance companies will pay for if you have a prescription. It can be used dry with electrodes on your skin or wet whenthe electrodes are put into water and your feet or hands into the water. Seperate water bucket for each hand or foot. What makes you think that anodyne therapy is increasing your swelling? I tried it , it didnt help with me, but it did not increase swelling.

On another note if you are takinga statin for cholesterol, some people feel that their PN was caused by statin drugs, and it is now listed as a side effect. No flush niacin, and zetia are two alternatives to a statin drug.

Yes, any information helps--thanks for sharing. I do not know if the Anodyne helps or hurts the situation but if it is increasing the blood supply which causes the leakage which causes swelling...who knows. Hopefully the neuro will be able to explain this to me better. It is possible the Lyrica is causing this since my dosage was upped and swelling worsened. The thought of taking that med out of my life is scary for me though because I know it does lessen the burning.

Maybe I'm just being too suspicious of the pt group...insurance doesn't pay for this therapy and it's $30/session. Small price to pay if it works, but I'm probably like most people in the fact that $90/week does have an effect on the family finances. They weren't pushy, just offering the service. I had actually thought about getting one for myself since it is something we use on the horses but haven't gotten past the consideration stage at this point.

The tens unit sounds like something that may or may not work. Thanks for the explanation...I'm still fairly new to this and not up on all the various treatments.

The pain IS less now than it was before, but it seems like sometimes it ebbs and flows. I assume that is common...just when I think, "Okay! Now we're getting somewhere" because the pain isn't so bad, then it will be horrible again for a time. I've tried examining nutrition and diet, exercise (I work on concrete and have walk all day) plus if am not totally exhausted from work get on the way-cool workout machine plus I do my horsey thing, other factors like shoes, have I done my ankle/foot exercises, etc. but don't come up with anything I can put my finger on as to a decrease in pain. It seems like sometimes it cycles where the pain lessens some. Definitely the Lyrica and Elavil have helped but maybe this is the best I can hope for.

I'll have to look this up. I take Crestor...don't know if it's a statin or not. I was on it for maybe 6-9 months before the swelling started. Heck, who knows. My body likes to take things for a while before it decides to become allergic...I know this probably isn't an allergic reaction (thank goodness no hugely hideous hives) but maybe the drug is causing it. Will ask gp ito look into if it could be the cause of the swelling 'cause it's so annoying. Until recently the swelling was firm and solid but now that it's getting bigger it is pitting.

Interferential therapy, which is similiar to TENS is what really brought my pain under control. The professional unit at the podiatrist, which is stronger than the home unit, got those ice pick stabs, and burning under control and almost completely eliminated that throbbing at night when you lay down. You probably could get this covered by insurance more readily than anodyne. I think its worth a shot before you get too deep into other treatments.

Crestor is a statin. I dont know if it causes swelling of the ankles, b ut i have not heard of that. It has been associated with PN by many people.

Talk about a bottle falling on your foot, you just reminded me, i have PN in my feet and a horse stepped on my foot. It felt like an elevator had fallen on it.

Before the nerve issue I had very bad swelling in my legs/ankle from edema. I was told to wear support hose and keep them elevated. Especially at night put a pillow underneath. I'm not sure if it would apply here. Also to drink enough water.

Water Water Water
 

A lot of the medications we take tend to make us retain the water, and the more we drink, the more it helps us flush the water out... It doesn't make sense, logically, drinking water seems like it would make us retain more, but it's actually the opposite.

Drink more, you'll flush more! I'm so bad about it myself. As soon as my hands start to swell up I remember it's time to drink about three more bottles! Within an hour or two, my rings start to loosen up again.

Good Luck!

Yes
 

Crestor is a Stantin, all Stantin's can cause very serious muscle weakness.
When you start feeling bad on any med,it's your body saying get this
crap out of me.

Yes dahlek even the third time ha,hugs back :)

I have Sjogrens syndrone so i drink,drink ect. It takes time,and take
notes so you will be ready for the Dr.,if he starts to walk out before your
done. Stick out your leg in front of him-her and say oh so sorry,a spasm,
Then say just a few more questions please i wasn't done. I've been
know to follow them into the hall. But that might be because i was a
nurse for far to many years. :hug: :hug: Sue

I have missed a lot of this thread, but just jumping in here to say it would surprise me a great deal if Anodyne therapy increased swelling.

Among other things, it helps the body produce nitric oxide and helps with circulation. So, for most people, I believe, it would help reduce swelling if anything.

rose

Had a different therapist today at pt and asked if there was any way the anodyne was contributing to the swollen ankles. He went in depth pretty well and now I'm sure there is no connection. As usual I flew off on a tangent that I didn't know what I was talking about. I do, however, want to thank all of you for such great replies. It really has helped a lot.

Drink more water...I'll do it and see if it helps but I already drink about a gallon and a half-2 gallons/day. Got in that habit several years ago thankfully. I used to be a big coke or iced tea drinker but forced myself to switch over to water and now I cannot believe how addicted to the stuff I was. Now it just tastes like sugar water--yuk. It probably wouldn't hurt me to cut more sugar out of my diet. PT mentioned that sometimes this helps pn and its something I could do on my own, so I suppose I will be looking closer at a dietary connection next. Before when I looked at my diet v pain I was just looking for similarities or differences in what I ate in general, not specifically at sugar. WARNING You'll probably be seeing a topic related to pn and sugar intake next.

Thanks,
possumtrot

I guess that's what is throwing me off. In the past my body has told me this by breaking out in gigantic hives. Have a gp appt next Thurs. and will discuss this possible cause of the swelling then. Thanks!

I'm interested in the post about sugar and pn. I have constant sugar cravings and eat a lot of it which I know is a vicious cycle. I see a nutritionist and we try to balance my plan for it to help but still have a hard time. On your swelling look at sodium too. Not just added salt but in foods you may not even think of. Everyone is right too about meds. Another thought and not to be to personal but how are your bm? I know I swell more cause I'm constipated a lot. Feel better.

Good thread. I was trying to race through reading it, since husband is in here trying to drag me off of the computer, so misread Possumtrot's posting about starting pt. I thought, WOW, someone posted that pot actually helps reduce their PN pain... :) :) :) Sorry about that, Possumtrot...

I share the swelling too. I believe that it is called pitting edema. It worries me, because I think I also remember that the fluid accumulation in the lower extremities is hard on the heart, which is trying to pump it back up...

Cathie

The fear of it being hard on the heart depends on how severe the edema. When I had refeeding syndrome which is with severe edema not till my swelling get so bad did they fear it taking the toll on my heart and gave me water pills. The pain in my legs was so horrible and I could barley lift my legs onto a chair. I had to wear support hose all day. It does help a little. If it gets bad though I would see your gp its better to be safe then sorry.

What is refeeding syndrome? Did you legs begin to hurt when they very first started swelling?
Cathie

Mine swell, although they are not too bad. I can't see my ankle bones though. I notice that it is a lot worse if I am sitting with my legs over the edge of a chair for any length of time, or riding in the car for a long time...

Actually, there has been good research for years showing that cannabis (marijuana/pot) often can help with nerve pain.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/...al/medical.htm

rose

Swollen Ankles and Calves
 

The Lyrica has caused me to gain a lot of weight, but I take high doses and always run out before my refill is due. My feet swell up like they were stung by a bee, and now my calves have begun to swell and the skin feels like it is stretched very tight on my calves. I think the swelling is related to the Lyrica, but I can not live without it.

Sorry refeeding syndrome is when I was under weight and malnurished and they increased my calories to a high level. My body held onto a lot of water which can have bad side effects on the heart and organs so has to be watched. I know having your legs elevated as much as possible helps and maybe ask the docs about support hose. Electrocuted and others have you discussed the swelling with your docs? Maybe they can offer more and some ways to relieve or a med to counteract.

Like, yeah...no problem, um...what were we talking about? :cool: LOL Seriously, I've read some things wrong too and had to re read them a couple of times to get it right! Even if pot does help pn I won't be taking it. Munchies won't help me reduce salt and sugar for sure. My Lyrica dosage was increased also but if it came down to living with the swelling and keeping the Lyrica or swelling with no Lyrica, I'll take the first option. The burning is not nearly debilitating anymore...sure don't want to go back to that again! I wish none of us had this issue but somehow it does make me feel a bit better to know I'm not the only one.