12 tesla mri..what would it mean for us
 

I guess it would mean that the damage we have will finally show up. Current machines are 1.5 tesla. Besides doctor not being able to tell us we're fine, what other practical use of seeing the damage would there be.

Insurance and disability would easier to get.

Would it help lead to innovative treatments?

My visual test indicated damage to certain parts of the brain, hence they asked me to do vestibular therapy. but my neuro still said at least there's nothing wrong with your brain because of negative mri.

When I confronted him about visual tests results he said "oh there is organic damage we cant see." lol

At least I got that out of him,

Having visual confirmation of our injuries would make a HUGE difference.

In addition to easing our path with doctors and insurers, it would help eliminate the guilt some patients harbour that they might, somehow, be malingerers.

Concrete proof of TBI might also encourage research and treatment. After all, doctors can't work on a cure, if they won't acknowledge the problem.

Bring it on.

I doubt the high res MRI would change much. They are used for research. Old injuries would not show up as the damaged tissue would have been absorbed long ago. A fMRI would probably show more. A DTI mri also can image some subtle damage.

3 Tesla MRI's are not uncommon. It takes about 6 Tesla to see the damage common to concussions.

The problem is that imaging the damage does not change the treatment because there are not any treatments of much value besides OT, ST, and VT and the things we do for ourselves.

Why is this even a topic of discussion ? There are only a few high Tesla MRI's in the world. They cost a quarter of a billion dollars ($250,000,000 to $270,000,000) each.

If one of us asked for an MRI in one of these expensive MRI systems, I bet the doctor would Laugh Out Loud.

I suppose it's a topic because a member, and we are all equal members, found it interesting.

Not to put words into the original poster's mouth, but I'm assuming he was not as much concerned with the technical specificity and/or current cost of Telsa MRI's, as he was with the idea of finding someway, someday of imaging the invisible injury.

Anyone who has tangled with a car insurance lawyer knows this would be invaluable. When I was injured, the forces of darkness couldn't deny my spinal cord injury, broken bones, cracked ribs, dislocated shoulder, etc... but my brain injury - the injury that had most altered my life, for the worst, could be disputed because the bleeds on my MRI had cleared.

A diagnostic test, that could image the kind of damage, now only evident at autopsy, could lead to insurance settlements that did not condemn mva victims to financial ruin.

Yes, treatments for TBI are limited. However, faced with incredulity from doctors, who can't SEE the injury, many patients aren't even getting access to what is available. Nor are effective treatments likely to be developed so long as inadequate imaging stands in the way of acknowledgement and understanding.

As for doctors laughing people of the room for requesting testing, many already do that, because they can't see the injury. I think most patients yearn for a method to image their injury because, if nothing else, it would stop doctors from treating us contemptuously.

Given the complexity of the brain, I suspect most TBI patients accept that a "cure" is not on the immediate horizon. In the interim, however, I feel that many of us dream of an imaging technology that would lead to our being treated with compassion and respect. As we don't often find that at the doctor's office, it would be nice if we could always find it when we post here.

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I absolutely agree with Hockey and markneil about just wanting to have "proof" of brain injury that would appease those doctors who are of the, " if the MRI is negative, there isn't an injury" school of thought. I have had my share of bad Neurologists who told me my confusion and cognitive issues were either due to meds or my "behaving like I had a serious head injury", and denied me access to other health care professionals (Speech therapist) because they thought I didn't need this.

I finally got my proof with the Neuropsychology testing, but I fear without this I would never have gotten the right diagnosis and been made to feel like a fool or worse yet, a malingerer out to get attention or monetary gain. Who knows how my life would be like without the validation I needed to prove what I already knew was true; I was not and am not the same person I was before the accident.

Thank God for the other medical professionals who "believed" me, and allowed me to get the tests and rehab I needed to get this far. Sometimes, all we're looking for is the validation in the face of so many so- called professionals who are all too quick to pass judgement. They should hope they are never put in a position where their integrity is questioned time and again because there is no proof of their injury in the eyes of the clinician they relied on for answers.

Thank God for Neuropsychology testing, one of the "proofs" the medical world can use to show the injury and its devastating effects on our lives. Take care, M-i-m

Dr. D. Amen MD uses PET scans to
Image brain damage. His books
And PBS shows also have his ideas about
Damage and healing based on his recent
Studies with brain damaged athletes.
Dr. Amen shows PET imaging of
Brains on "drugs" as well-- showing sobering
Consequences.

Dr. Amen has always been controversial
But I find now after many years his
Work is worth looking into.

BTW... I looked up some high Tesla sites,
And it appears that safety issues are huge
Past 3 Tesla levels.

That will take some time and money before
Thinking about human applications.

Sorry I can't link from this little iPhone.

My concern is that getting hopeful about something as remote as a 12 Tesla MRI can cause a misdirection of efforts. Yes, this is a free forum but there is a tendency to chase after pipe dreams in search of the magic pill or treatment.

We need to try to live in the here and now rather than in the stressful world of what could be. The here and now has enough stress.

Hope is valuable but hope needs to be kept within a responsible realm. Doctors already discount our complaints. Seeking a high Tesla MRI risks putting that relationship in greater jeopardy.

fyi,

The University of Utah had a 6 Tesla MRI almost 2 decades ago. It was used for research with the football team. It showed damage from even moderate or less concussions. The players became so concerned about getting any level of concussion that their play suffered. The athletic department discontinued the study to avoid further scaring the players. Unfortunately, the psychology department took over the MRI and did not have the funds and where-with-all to properly maintain it and the coil overheated and burned out

The challenge with high Tesla MRI's is the risk of showing damage to the non-concussed. That could make the positive MRI imaging of the concussed patient have little value.

There is a system with high accuracy rates. qEEG's have shown to be 97-98% accurate but have been discounted due to one irresponsible article in a medical journal over a decade ago. They are reasonably affordable and the equipment costs less than $3000.

I saw what you did there with the "Laugh Out Loud" lol. I'm trying to kick the habit of using lol but we all know how hard habits are to break.

When I asked my mri tech about teslas he didn't even know what they were :)

The articles I read didn't mention the staggering costs and dangers, but perhaps over time, they will get cheaper and a happy medium can be found. After all, GPS machines were 5000 dollars when they first came out, now they can be bought for 60 bucks.

And PET scans were mentioned by, I think MRSD, which, unfortunately I am too fat to fit into right now lol (there goes that nervous tic again)

We have people on the board flying to Mexico for cheap HBOT treatments, even though the science on them has not been encouraging, we have them flying to Florida for VERY unproven 10000 dollar Eternacept shots that claim to treat almost EVERY brain disease, no matter their etiology.

One man went through 150000 trying to save his wife from Alzheimer's to no avail, and we have people taking every supplement under the sun when the FDA has specifically warned that not one of these supplements can heal or even TREAT a brain injury.

But I respect everyone who tries these things. We are human and we need HOPE. Even if its 20 years down the road or may seem impossible now, like carrying something the size of a pillbox and calling someone in Japan with it would have seemed crazy 30 yeas ago.

It's called hope, and most of us humans need it. Yourpoint about the expense and major drawbacks are well taken though.

I disagree with the FDAs supplement statement also because turmeric has been shown to affect the buildup of plaque in the brain in a positive way.

I guess I found the tesla article interesting because so many people, including me, on the board complain of their doctor saying it's all in your head. Plus the scientific part of me wants to know what part or parts of my brain are causing these debilitating symptoms.

And to be frank, I found the article while browsing about the brain on the internet because I was so bored from being stuck in due to the symptoms of this lousy thing :) And sometimes the pulsating tinnitus just isn't company enough.

I appreciate the tip on QEEGs, but as my symptoms are more sensory than cognitive, I don't know if it would help. I will do some reading.

qEEGs are good at defining sensory problems. My doc saw the waveforms from my qEEG and turned to me (without seeing my medical history or complaints) and stated, You hear everything. How do you tolerate that ?

High Tesla MRI's will never come down in cost. Micro-electronics are prime for cost reductions, especially when the market is hundreds of millions of people.

btw, The only early GPS systems that were $5000 were designed with the high reliability requirements of aircraft. Those aircraft GPS systems still cost thousands of dollars.

A big part of the cost of MRI's is the massive amounts of copper super conductors and liquid helium.

So, again, the high Tesla MRI's will never come down in price. Maybe to $100,000,000 but probably not less.

Comparing HBOT to 12 T MRI's is an apples and stones comparison. Not even close.

Some can afford to risk a few thousand on HBOT. The Etanercept risk/benefit ratio is much higher. There will always be people willing to take a desperate person's money.

Regarding nervous tics. I have to proof what I type. I routinely use the delete and backspace keys. My brain misfires frequently.

I really wish my brain could form the sentences I want right now... but here is the general...

- HOPE... I will travel to the end of the earth to find something that will help... I have flown 990 miles to see a new neurologist that I HOPE will offer something different... right now, HOPE is all I have because, NOTHING and I mean NOTHING else has offered any help! So if there is a thought in this world I could find out how to get my head in a 12 tesla MRI I will research it out of HOPE that I can finally have answers and that something will help. And yes, that could be me chasing a pipe dream or a magic pill or treatment.. but it redirects my thoughts and does give me HOPE.. and hope is not a bad thing for any of us..

- Hockey, you are right.. I do not expect a "cure" but just something that will help and maybe knowing that something is on the horizon and doctors saying, we will do what we can in the meantime would be a great thing

-M-I-M- yes, neurophsych has made me realize that I am not going crazy but that there are really some screws loose that are making me not be able to process correctly! and for that, I am thankful... and I can move forward trying to put all the pieces back together...

SarahS,

Have you checked out Dr Walker in Dallas ? http://www.neurotherapydallas.com/

He represents a much better risk benefit ratio than chasing high res MRI's.

I think there is a fine line between acceptance and resignation.

I accept that I have a brain injury that, at present, and for the foreseeable future, impairs my function. Knowing that, I have adapted to the situation by developing workarounds, modifying my activities and making peace (or, at least, a truce) with myself. However, while I'm attentive to the danger of snake oil salesmen, I will NEVER stop exploring therapies that might improve my condition.

While Telsa MRIs are not currently viable, there are cognitive therapies that CAN help TBI patients - but they are unlikely to get them if they don't advocate for themselves. Both the private health system in the States, and the public one, here in Canada, are about rationing services to save money. Squeaky wheels get grease.

If you don't fight for yourself, most doctors will just give you a handful of SSRIs, a (gentle) pat on the head and send you home. As a group, TBI patients are woefully under treated.

Of course, TBI's tendency to rob patients of initiative, self-awareness and energy works against our being proactive. For that reason, I feel we might need to be mindful that an "acceptance" of our injuries, that sees us fall into a rut of unchanging treatments, or no treatment, might be more a SYMPTOM of the injury than a healthy, long term option for furthering our recovery.

I guess I'm less "don't worry, be happy" and more "the Lord helps those who help themselves." Psalm 37:39-40