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Could someone give me their educated quess on this please?
Could someone chime in here and give me some kind of educated guess on what might be happening to me? I have steadily gone down hill since 2009 after a car back ended me. It first started with hypothyroid, then stomach issues, then the car accident caused problems with my cervical spine.
Now, I'm having all kinds of health issues and don't know what to think about it all. I take many medicines and quite frankly, I'm tired of them. These are some of the conditions. Degenerative Joint Disease: 1998 ~OA Herniated discs in neck, Mild Spina Bifida Occulta @T7, Cervical Spondylosis: 2009 Dr. : Lumbar Impairment 3%, Cervical Impairment 11%, Whole Body 14% Dr. : PPI 7% TMJ: August 2012 Alkaline Phosphatase high: January 2012 ~ Told something with bones. Cervical Spondylosis confirmed again: December 18, 2012 Bursitis both shoulders: January 2013 Rheumatoid Disease/Myofascial & Lumbar Pain Syndrome/facet disease: May 2013 Cervicalgia, etc. I receive mostly pain meds and Injections to the sacroiliac joints Trigger point injections but only so many a year. Now, I've begun having numbness in both arms, down to the ring and pinky finger when I sleep. Some numbness in one spot on my right let at the heel. This is my MRI results: CONTRAST~~COMPARISON: None.~~INDICATIONS: Brachial neuritis. ~~TECHNICAL FACTORS:~ Multiplanar multisequence imaging of the cervical spine acquired ~without contrast as per protocol. ~~FINDINGS: There is straightening and slight reversal of the natural ~lordosis with the apex centered around the C5-6 level. No evidence of bone ~marrow edema is identified. There is loss of disc signal intensity ~throughout the cervical spine and loss of disc height at C5-6 and C6-7. ~~ No significant disc contour-deforming abnormalities are identified ~from C2-3 through C4-5. Very minimal uncovertebral hypertrophy is seen at ~C4-5, but the neural foramina appear patent bilaterally.~~ At C5-6, diffuse disc osteophyte complex with uncovertebral ~hypertrophy effaces the ventral CSF space and results in at least mild ~narrowing of the neural foramina bilaterally. At this time, ample CSF ~surrounds the cord. ~~ At C6-7, left paracentral disc osteophyte complex with uncovertebral ~hypertrophy effaces the left aspect of the thecal sac and results in ~slight narrowing of the ipsilateral neural foramen. The right neural ~foramen appears widely patent. ~~ No significant disc contour-deforming abnormality is identified at ~C7-T1. ~~ The cervical cord appears normal in caliber with no abnormal cord ~signal changes.~~ IMPRESSION: Disc degenerative changes in the lower cervical region, ~most prominent at ~ C5-6 as detailed above. I had a emg done and one of the muscles in my left arm was what the doctor called a "dive bomber" signal. What I'm trying to find out is first is that MRI abnormal? Second, can this be causing all my health issues? I have other issues but these are the ones related to my bones. I'm so tired of the doctor visits, PT, needle pokes etc., after all these years, that I'm wondering if this progresses or might I find some peace at some point? I am considering just stopping appointments because every time I go there's something else wrong and I'm becoming a doubting thomas. If it's going to progress then I think I'd rather just stop going to my appts and stay at home. It is now where I'm mostly home bound anyway due to stiffness and pain. Thank you in advance and I hope I'm not breaking any rules. Dixie |
I wonder what a "dive bomber" signal. means..? never heard of that one..
I don't see anything major on the MRI report, but whiplash and the other Dxs you list can cause quite a bit of pain. Most of it is usually soft tissue caused pain. [Bursitis both shoulders: January 2013 Rheumatoid Disease/Myofascial & Lumbar Pain Syndrome/facet disease: May 2013] If the arm numbness is recent could it be any form of repetitive strain injury? Sometimes after whiplash it can take a year for internal scarring /misalignments to show up as pain and symptoms.. I don't know how you feel about expert chiropractic or if you have read anything about upper cervical adjusting/NUCCA etc? some info - http://www.upcspine.com/default.asp http://www.upcspine.com/self.htm http://www.nucca.org/ and perhaps acupuncture might be helpful for over all health.. |
Hi!
I'm with Jo, don't see anything terribly unusual in your MRI report, at least from a surgical standpoint…
Have you been given a diagnosis (dx)? Could you tell us a little bit more about your symptoms (sx)? For example, are you just experiencing numbness in your arms and pinkie and ring fingers, or numbness AND tingling? These may be nerve pain sx coming from either your cervical spine at the C-5/C-6 level, OR from your brachial plexus, a few inches down. If it's the latter, you may want to look into Thoracic Outlet Syndrome ("TOS") as a possible dx; similar to the "brachial neuritis" noted in the report. There is a TOS forum on NeuroTalk, just below this one. Check out the sticky threads at the top, there is a wealth of information captured in them which may be helpful to you even if you don't have TOS. Lots of great ideas in there for dealing with myofascial and nerve pain issues… How do you like your PT? May be a good person to talk to about your more troubling sx, what's causing them and where you might find the best treatment (tx) at this point (what type of specialist or modality, etc.). You may also need to recruit a good pain management physician and a neurologist to be part of your tx team, if you haven't already. I think you'll find that by becoming your own best advocate, things will start to look a lot better to you. Knowledge is power! We are here to support you should you have any questions or concerns. Keep posting to let us know how you are doing, OK? Alison |
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Hmmm can't link it due to not having more than 10 posts. But on YouTube if you google "Dive Bomber EMG" a video will come up. * It just didn't sound like the others and the doctor had a really strange face when it started. He did it twice. The numbness is recent. I use to have numbness five years ago after the car wreck, but it when away. It's back now. I also had the adjustments at the chiropractor after that wreck. I went to him for 52 weeks and also had massage releases. That felt so good! However, as mentioned the numbness is recent. I'm having major pains when I turn my head, look up, etc. I've tried changing sleeping positions, various pillows, sleeping on my back only and nothing has changed it. Might I add I only noticed the numbness in my arms at night. Just the bottom of both arms and numbness of the ring and pinky fingers. So strange. But it's been five years now and my health has declined rapidly and well if it's going to be like this on out, I'm thinking I'd rather suffer without all the other stuff that has to be done. Every time I go to the doctor it's something else and well would kinda just like to be left alone if all these procedures aren't really going to fix anything. Thank you again for your reply. :) I appreciate you reading my MRI results and letting me know it wasn't bad. Have a good night. |
Thank you.
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I will take a look at the Thoracic Outlet Syndrome thread and thank you for that information. Per my last response (which I don't see here, perhaps will turn up later) I have been to PT, hate it, do it at home now. I have to do it or else I can't turn my neck. They just tell me it's very important to keep at it. Remember it's been five years that health issues keep coming. Like I'm falling apart at 50 well 45 when it all started. I feel extremely old. Pain and numbness is usually only at night. It is the back of both arms, and gets numb all the way down in both ring fingers and pinky's. It's recent but has been happening some months now because I was wondering why I couldn't hold onto items. I work with computers and this is when I first noticed it. I couldn't hold onto the little bitty screws while taking the computer's apart. I guess because there was no numbness at that time, I really didn't pay attention to what was happening and thinking it was the RA in my hands. I'm in between doctors now for the RA/OA, but I do have a pain management doctor he is in Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation. I think I may need to ask for a neurologist? I saw a neurosurgeon long ago to get a second opinion, however, I have not been in the last few years. Thanks again for the support, explanations, and I will follow up. :) |
[wondering why I couldn't hold onto items. I work with computers and this is when I first noticed it. I couldn't hold onto the little bitty screws while taking the computer's apart. I guess because there was no numbness at that time,]
This is often a RSI/TOS issue - loss of fine finger use.. I could not pick up small parts at my work, that started many years of neck, shoulders, hands and arms problems eventually = TOS Luckily therapy & chiropractic and a lot of self care slowed/halted my symptoms. now I mainly have myofascial discomfort- more so in the winter months... Mix the whiplash and the work activities, could be very much a TOS like issue. TOS is not a well known condition, and often biased ideas about it, so finding a PT or MD that really knows about it is important esp when you have other conditions.. |
Thank you, Jo*mar. I appreciate both of your replies and time. Have a good evening.
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I Feel for You… So Much!
As Jo said, there is a lot of controversy in medicine about TOS, so it's important to make sure any doc you bring on board (esp. a new neurologist) txs this disorder. (Some even deny its existence, believe it or not!) Ask your pain management doc about TOS as well; s/he may want to have you consult with a vascular surgeon to confirm TOS as a dx (doesn't mean you have to have surgery, by the way!).
Some of your sxs do sound like TOS, DixieDarling, and getting you on the right kind of tx plan could make all the difference for you. Unfortunately, there is no "gold standard" test to determine whether this is the correct dx, but there are several provocative maneuvers a knowledgeable physician can put you through clinically which can be telling (putting your arms in certain positions to see if you lose your radial pulse, for example), as well as something called a "scalene block" which, if it provides relief from your pain, is a positive sign of TOS as well. Don't want to overwhelm you right now (or ever!), maybe just do some reading on the TOS forum for now and see if anything resonates with you. If you'd like to talk sometime, send me a PM and I'd be happy to give you my phone number. I have been right where you are! |
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Looking at my records for his notes, he has the following: moderate-severe left median neuropathy, subacute bilateral ulnar neuritis, chronic pain syndrome. Referral to Dr. XXXXX for definitive left median neuropathy (affecting pronator teres and APB), and ulnar neuropathic ssx bilaterally. I have zero clues as to what all that means. If you know, I’d appreciate a layman’s explanation until I can Google my head off later. :eek: What I thinking right now is that I believe I should ask if I could see a neurologists before any surgery stuff. My pain management doctor said he believe that if I had surgery on my wrist and elbow, that I’d do better and not have the nerve damage. It’s not that I don’t trust him, it’s just he’s new in practice. I've had other surgeries so not looking forward to any as I'm sure you can all agree. If this helps here are my other crap ton of health issues besides the latest ones. Cervical radiculitis Rheumatoid Arthritis Spondylosis Hypertension Cubital tunnel syndrome Somatic dysfunction of spine, thoracic Hyperlipidemia Varicose veins Sacroiliac joint pain Nonalcoholic steatohepatitis (NASH) Impaired fasting glucose Esophageal reflux Disorder of kidney and ureter Cramp of limb Cervical facet joint syndrome Backache Seborrheic Dermatitis Allergic Reaction Hypokalemia Gastritis Type 2 diabetes mellitus without complications Hypothyroidism Allergic rhinitis Uncomplicated asthma Lumbar facet joint pain Fibromyalgia Elevated alkaline phosphatase level Depressive disorder Cervicalgia Edema I will take you up on the number! Just can't right now...will get with you later on that. Thanks for the offer. Dixie |
Another thing , since you mention possible surgery on wrist and elbow...
there is a thing called double and/or triple crush... Basically it is TOS plus impingement at those other places too. Don't agree to wrist or elbow surgery until you see a TOS specialist, in the past quite a few had ulnar and/or carpal tunnel surg then discovered they still had sx because it was TOS not carpal or ulnar.. All the nerves , as well as the blood flow, to arm & elbow have to run thought the brachial plexus area, so any compression, from bone, scar tissue, ligaments, muscles, and even poor hunched forward postures, can really cause many symptoms.. Did you find our Thoracic outlet forum and the sticky threads there? You can post there if you want to get more information from the TOS forum members. Most tend to stay in their main forum topic and don't explore around. I had many rsi related dxs at first because my sx kept moving around, and my GP wasn't familiar with TOS , I wasn't either at first ...but I found the forums and it all clicked for me then.. |
My Gosh, Woman!
No wonder you are so frustrated! You are what my daughter, Chelsea, would call "a poor little thing!":hug: I think you said earlier that you are between rheumatologists right now, but do you have an internist or a GP running the show for you? With so much stuff going on, that's the first thing that came to mind.
I know it's easier said than done, but you really need one guy (or gal!) making sure that all these different specialists you keep getting referred to for one thing or another are talking to each other - at least where it counts! - and keeping you and your GP informed. Your goal of wanting to develop a tx plan you can mostly do @ home is one I can really relate to. It gets so tiring running from place to place, esp when your "knower" knows the answers lie within, right? Even if it's just maintenance stuff at first, like deep breathing, stretching, relaxation and creative visualization techniques (whatever works for you), there is a lot you can do to bring some peace into your life, while cutting down on the sheer number of Dr./PT app'ts you have to keep. Maybe even get a massage person who makes home visits on your team, since you did well with that before. Oh, and as usual Jo has read my mind as far as any surgery eval goes. If you want, you could use the 'search' function on the TOS forum - type in "FL" or "Florida" and see what threads/posts pop up for you. May be a good way to find TOS health care providers close to where you are (also check the "Drs. and PTs" sticky thread at the top of the forum; they're listed by state there, however I'm not sure how current that info is). But let's see if we can't keep you off the operating table, DixieDarlin. Try some other tried and true ways of dealing with some of the peskier sx you are experiencing. You deserve to have lots more pain-free days in your life! And by the way, 50 is nowhere near old, my friend (if it is, then I am ancient!:eek:)… |
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Dixie, I am sorry to hear that your are going through so many health problems. It is sad that when we get older, more health issues seem to creep up on us. I too have had some of the health concerns on your list. I am a 54 yr old female that about two years ago had enough. Had enough with drs and started looking into what can I do for me. Found that with researching and talking with a very good friend of mine that she suggested a Upper Cervical Chiropractor that can also adjust the rest of my body. Our spine is a miraculous thing. But everyday life can put stresses on it. The spine is connected to many parts that help our body do what it does. Muscles, ligaments, nerves all serve a purpose and in turn our nerves supply many of our organs too. When your spine is out of alignment it can cause all kinds of problems. Think of it as a hose, when you step on a hose it cuts off the water supply. Your spine is the same way. One misalignment and it can trickle down to even a simple pinch nerve. I am no dr and don't claim to be, but with my past experience with the medical field, all they want to do is give you a pill or do surgery. I have found that after talking with a chiropractor about my medical issues, I found that after one adjustment, I felt results. Not big results but one little one. Then when I went back two weeks later, I found that with another adjustment, I felt even better. I took less meds. They gave me a exercise regime that worked for me. I changed my bad ways of soda to water, cut out alot of sugars especially sucralose, and found that in one month, I was feeling like my old self again. I have been going to the chiropractor for two years now and I have never been better. Yes, I do have some health issues that they can't cure. I have arthritis in my neck and lumbar spine, have had carpal tunnel, thyroidism, they even thought I had a heart attack. NOT PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE ... look into seeing a chiropractor. Talk with them, read up on the practice here online. Talk with others who have gone to them. Check them out ... You will find that they can help you MORE than any MD can. My chiropractor saved me. I no longer take narcotics, maybe an occasional aleve. They saved my life .. let them save you! God Bless you and you are in my prayers! :hug: |
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Yes, it's confusing as I'm not sure all the other doctors are coordinating with each other. They all do have my records since it's online system for them. I do wish I didn't have so many doctor's appointments it's like a full time job, however, I'm getting use to it. I also care take my Mother because she has Parkinson's and emphysema. So I have to take her to her appointments as well. Thanks for the info on the search function. I will certainly try and see if there is a doctor here (small town) for that. You never did say, should I get a neuro doctor? What I've decided to do and hopefully not tick off my pain management doctor, is go ahead and have a evaluation with the surgeon. See what he says. Then go back to the pain management doctor and tell him until all my tests are done (I need xrays of the throaic spine) and a complete overall view can be seen, that I will not consider surgery. I apologizee about being old at 50...it's just I feel very old. I watch people that are about my age and they seem to be having a good time and here I am broken down and can hardly move. :P Thank you again for all your help. :) |
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The pain management doctor does alignments on me and he does the trigger point injections. I've been going to him for two years now and yet, still keep getting more and more things going downhill. I do appreciate your response and advice. I have been wanting to go back to the chiropractor to get those myofascial release thingys...OMG heaven! That was the only thing I enjoyed at the chiropractor. Years back I had an evaluation with a Neuro-surgeon and at that time he told me that due to the spinal degeneration and disc disease that eventually I would have to have a ACDF which was said to be a cervical spine surgery. I've been trying avoid that. I took it with a grain of salt since back in 1999 another doctor that did knee surgery told me I'd be in a wheelchair in five years give or take. I refused and by the grace of God, I've not gotten there yet. Canes and walkers, yes, but no wheelchair hopefully. Plus my dog is too little to do my chores for me so I have to stay mobile!!!! :wink: Thank you again and may God bless you dearly. |
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Edited: Nope, never had the flexion/extension xrays. Always just standing straight up or in the MRI. Certainly will ask about that. Thanks. |
Neurologist
Whoops! My bad, I hadn't realized you were waiting to hear back from me - I think adding a neurologist to your tx team is a great idea. Just make sure that they treat patients with TOS, to be on the safe side. If you find one TOS specialist reasonably close to you by using the forum search function, but they don't happen to be a neurologist, you can try calling them anyway to ask for a referral to one. These guys all tend to know each other. You know how that goes, I'm sure!
Also a little Confucious (:confused:) as to why your pain doc would be ticked off if you went for a surgical consult. I thought she was the one pushing for you to do that, and that you were a bit taken aback at the prospect. Perhaps I got it backwards (wouldn't be the 1st time!). Tenny rate, your new neuro will be the best one to refer you to the surgeon who is the top TOS specialist in your area. These guys tend to be vascular surgeons, but don't be thrown off by the nomenclature. And again, it would just be a consult - you wouldn't have to commit to having any surgery. They might want to order some diagnostic tests and/or conduct some noninvasive clinical tests during the office exam. Pretty standard stuff. Must close now as I've gotta date with my pillow! Goodnight and bless you for taking care of your mom, DixieDarlin. Rock steady. Alison Quote:
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What I mean by not following him completely or bucking his (for lack of a better work) authority/knowledge, he gets funky. Like he might pull my pain medicines and tell me to find another doctor. I've had him storm out of the room one day when he thought the insurance wasn't going to pay. He was ticked off. LOL My Mother was there that day so she was able to see what I was talking about. Since I had a hard time finding a pain management doctor I just roll with the flow. I'm finding this is the case mostly but I think it is because my town is so small. I have great difficulties finding doctors. So I don't mind him doctoring me with pain medicines... but on something like this...surgery...no. His sister treats me and does the Facet joint injections in my lumbar area. She totally has a different personality from him and it doesn't even seem like they're siblings. Don't get me wrong, I'm thankful that I do get seen and helped. At any rate, I want to know all I possibly can, and be informed about it. I'd also like to know what might could be wrong with me in an overall view. I mean everything together. It seems now I'm being treated in parts, I have this wrong with the knees, bursitis in the shoulders, neck issues, from each doctor...understand what I mean? It doesn't seem like a larger picture of what's going on and that's confusing to me and making me second guess. I have a vascular surgeon and he's the bomb! He's so good. I am so happy he is my doctor. He is all business but he is extremely good and thorough. Thanks again and I don't expect you to respond right away, especially if it's late. I know you all have work and other things to do so I can wait. Blessings. |
Sorry, I Just Now Saw Your Last Post!
You have a vascular surgeon? Why, that's awesome! Not only would he be able to refer you to a good neurologist, he can help you to rule TOS in or out by doing some diagnostic tests.
If I were you, I would make an appointment with him before any hand surgeon. Hand surgeons, in my experience, tend to be soooooo ultra-specialized that they will very rarely look above the wrist - or maybe the elbow, if pushed - for where the trouble is emanating from. Because of the controversy in medicine concerning TOS I think I mentioned to you before, you might encounter some resistance. So be prepared for that. A lot of us TOSers had to see several doctors before we finally got the right dx. That is what is known as the "TOS shuffle!" Do you really think your pain doc would hold your meds hostage if you do something he doesn't like, or don't do something he wants you to do? That is outrageous! But you have kids, right? Use your "mommy" skills on him! I really like your concept of the whole body being treated, rather than having to have a specialist for this, a specialist for that, ad nauseum. Sort of like holistic medicine. A lot of Western docs have adopted that mindset in the last decade or so. I hope you find one of them to put on your tx team! Take Care, Darlin Alison |
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I think like you do after all the appointments, PT, surgery etc., I'm beginning to believe that I'm only being treated part by part. Like I said I have a doctor for the knees, one for the neck, one for shoulders, because those are the parts they treat. I was quite surprised when I found out that the one treating my knee's couldn't do my shoulder. :confused: About the pain management, yes, I do think he might. When I first had to go to him, he would not give me any pain meds even though I was already on loratabs for months from my PCP. When I was in so much pain I couldn't stand it anymore, I questioned him and asked how he could allow a person to suffer so much being he was a pain management doctor. He was angry and told me if I didn't like the way he handled my care, find another doctor. Took me a bit to explain I wasn't personally attacking him. Before he gave me any pain meds, he tried other things available and after a year he put me on Norco. However, he also told me that he expected me to lose weight and if I didn't lose weight they would stop. Never had a doctor do that before, so yes, I was sweating when going for my visit. My Mom said that wasn't professional but she always thought something wasn't quite right and told me to get someone else. I mentioned maybe he was establishing trust to make sure I wasn't a drug seeker. I understand the state/gov gives them a time with all this. It didn't matter anyway because due to my health issues I lost 70 lbs. :wink: He now has me on Morphine Sulfate twice a day, with some breakthrough meds. I asked for the breakthrough for emergency so I didn't have to go to the ER. Just so you know, I don't like to dog a doctor, it's against me, but this was what I experienced. There are some online reviews stating pretty much the same thing. All in all I just think that my problems/health issues are connected, but that no one is seeing this. I may be wrong, but it's just what I feel is happening. I was able to see the Rheumatologist yesterday and she was very through. She did blood work and xray's so can't wait to follow up in two weeks. She gave me a hand out to read about Hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil) when I return, so I'm guessing according to the test, she may prescribe this. At any rate, I feel better since you all explained what I should be looking for and doing. I feel like I finally have the knowledge to make sure I get treated correctly or at least which way to go about it. So that I am thankful for. BTW, I sent you a PM. Thanks. :You-Rock: |
Just wanted to follow up a little bit since it's been a while. I have the upcoming appointment with the hand surgeon, but I will wait on what he says until I see the Neurologist (experienced with TOS) coming up after him. I finally was able to get the RA doctor and she put me on Plaquenil, however, just discontinued it until I see her again because I broke out in a horrible rash and was extremely moody (more like a melt down). Otherwise, I keep on keeping on and would like to wish all of you a Happy New Year. Will follow up again after my appts. and I hope that all of you are doing well as can be. :)
BTW, final from Pain management/Physiatrist...Severe left median neuropathy, Subacute Bilateral Ulnar Neuritis, Cervical Radiculopathy/neuritis. Thanks. |
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