Osteoporosis
 

I spent the most part of two years in bed when I got PN. The only other potential cause of my osteoporosis that I can identify is the 10 years that I was on 40mg/day of Nexium.

I have never supplemented with calcium because I thought men were not supposed to take it.

I am 44, now with PN and severe osteoporosis. What do I do?

Have you had your vit D level tested? Low D leads to poor absorption of any calcium in the diet.

People with RSD....they typically get osteoporosis with this.
But also steroids can trigger it when they are used to treat inflammatory problems. If your severe pain has resulted from RSD which is not diagnosed properly, this can be a factor.

Low levels of certain nutrients may also cause it.... low B12, Low magnesium and recently K2 and of course low calcium all play roles in bone building. If you drink milk, eat cheeses, and green veggies, you are getting calcium there too. The vitamin K is made by bacteria in the bowel, and your long term use of Cipro may have killed them off, unfortunately. So you may be low in Vit K and not know it.

I'd get your testosterone tested too. Testosterone is the bone building hormone for men.

Certainly your long term Nexium use did not help any either.

Thank you Mrs. D.

I've never heard of RSD, I will look into that. I've never taken any steroids, testosterone is being checked now. Five years ago, my T level was at the top but I suppose that could have changed by now and perhaps PN (or RSD) has had an effect on it if that is a possibility. D level is also being checked. That will be interesting since I have been taking it daily without fail ever since a low reading about five years ago.

I do take magnesium and B-12 supplements religiously but not K2 nor do I think I get any in my diet.

Men are always told to avoid calcium supplementation but I am learning now that is not the rule every man should follow.

Don't count on dairy products to build strong bones. This is fraud perpetrated on the American people for over a century by dairy groups and the federal govt. The countries with the highest dairy consumption also have the highest levels of osteoporosis, and the U.S. is one of the highest in both categories. While correlation does not imply causation, in the least our high dairy consumption is not protecting us. Look into it.
Ron

Milk is just one of many sources of calcium.

I can't drink bovine milk :eek:

many orange juices today have added calcium.

As do soy and almond "milks." Many of them advertise 50% more calcium than dairy milk. Of course you can also get it from fruits and vegetables. Where do you think adult cows get calcium? Maybe many of the factory-farmed cows are supplemented these days, I don't know, but grass-fed cows get their calcium from grass.
Ron

Most Humans don't drink milk, yet have stronger bones
 

Yes, totally. Question all those assumptions we've been fed about milk.

The US and the Netherlands have the highest consumption of milk in the world and the US has the highest rate of osteoporosis in the world.

Most Chinese are milk intolerant and most of China, Asia, Africa do not drink milk beyond breast milk and they all have the strongest bones in the world.

Is the human animal, which has been around for millions of years, really required to drink the milk of a domesticated cow meant for a calf to have strong bones?

In fact, lots of milk, red meat, white refined grains, sugar all may actually suck / leech calcium from your bones into the digestive system to digest these.

Moreover, is the human animal, which has been around for millions of years, really required to take a calcium pill (which has only be around the last century) to have strong bones?

The body has a complicated, delicate chemistry balance. Shooting up calcium alone with a pill, affects other chemical values. Studies are starting to show that many of the women who got on the kick to sell calcium supplements in the past couple of decades are now developing heart problems.

How does the human animal naturally have strong bones and why don't we have them? Why do Chinese, Asia, Africa have next to no osteoporsis?

They are out in the sun (natural vitamin D) putting lots of natural strain on their limbs (natural regular exercise) eating lots of basic simple whole foods (such as simple greens) that have the whole range of balanced chemicals needed.

As a side note - ground black sesame seeds also have lots of natural calcium, along with other compounds. The Japanese eat lots of this and have very little osteoporosis.

The Chinese also have next to no breast cancer and people are starting to think our explosion is due to added hormones in the milk we drink.


Natalie

I am 95% vegan, do not drink any animal milk, very low sugar, only whole grains and seeds. I juice every day: spinach, kale, beets, pumpkin seeds, flax seeds, Brazil nuts, Chia seeds, blueberries, apples, coconut water and mint.

So, no meat, no milk and no white or processed foods and I have always been strong and healthy (pre-PN). As far as I know, the two contributing factors for my osteoporosis are Nexium for 10 years which is known to leech calcium (didn't know it at the time though) and about two years of inactivity since my PN diagnosis. It really took me down and I am inactive a lot of the time. I do weight bearing exercises when possible but certainly not every day and some days all I can do is stretch and that can be very painful.

I agree with a lot of what you said about bovine milk and osteoporosis. I don't like it anyway so it is very easy to avoid.

This website has data and stats about
Osteoporosis across the world:

Www.iofbonehealth.org

http://www.iofbonehealth.org/facts-statistics

Very interesting reading!

@beatle-- if you do not eat meat I'd
Suggest you get carnitine levels tested.
You could be low in this because of your
Diet.
Another amino acid low in vegans is
Methionine-- this one is involved in
methylation chemistry which is a
weak point for you as well.

Low carnitine impacts mitochondrial energy
production.

Here is a statement from http://www.iofbonehealth.org/facts-statistics that is typical of our broken way of thinking of health in this country:

"Fruit and vegetable intake was positively associated with bone density in a study in men and women. The exact components of fruits and vegetables which may confer a benefit to bone are still to be clarified (121,122)."

The thinking is that if we could just isolate the components in fruits and vegetables that are good for us, we could put those components in pills, then everyone could take them and we'd all be healthy. It just doesn't work like that. It is the combination of the thousands of chemical compounds in the fruits and vegetables that lead to health, not just a few "components." And it doesn't matter which components benefit us, how about we just eat the fruits and vegetables? It makes me sick.
Ron

I took that statement as a positive one.... not one to become angry about.

The facts are that many veggies contain potassium, magnesium, calcium, vitamin K, beta carotene, various luteins, and many other things.

But for specific osteoporosis benefits, Vit K and magnesium and
calcium are already known to aid with bone health.

Thanks as always Mrs. D.

I do consume a little bit of dairy: cheese, yogurt and ice cream.

I also take a carnitine supplement but shoot for low methionine as it is my understanding that it is linked to cancer prevention and a a longer life.

I am going to check out Iofbonehealth now. Thanks again

Methionine makes up SAMe... which is the main methyl transporter in our bodies. No SAM and no neurotransmitters, poor liver enzymes and poor joints with inflammation.

With methionine... you need some.... just not oodles of it.
Most cancers feed on nutrients.

If resist meat.... at least eat eggs.
Good protein nutrition was listed as a positive effect on bone density on that site.

I want to be as flexible as possible (accidental pun) but I cannot eat eggs. Are there other sources? How about cheese? :D

Have you considered taking Strontium? Both Amazon and iHerb now offer a variety of brands. They've been using it in Europe for a long time with much success for osteoporosis.

When I was diagnosed with osteoporosis a number of years ago, I took several of the prescription drugs, but they all disagreed with me. I researched the internet and found Strontium. The first year I took it, my bone density increased over 9%--my doctor couldn't believe it. Latter increases were not this dramatic, but I did get my bones back to the normal range. You cannot take it at the same time as calcium because they use the same receptors; however, this wouldn't be a problem for you as you don't take calcium anyway. At the time I looked into it, Doctors Best was the only brand available; now both Amazon and iHerb offer a variety of brands.

Well...eggs are germinal foods. With so many nutrients,choline and trace minerals, enough to grow and start a new life.

Just about every mammal eats eggs in the wild. Other birds eat eggs, snakes, etc. Are you allergic or just hate them?

Some meat .... a little one serving a day, would help get you the methionine. Other options are amino acid supplements.

Use this handy tool to determine how much you need daily:
http://www.globalrph.com/aminoacid-rda.htm

This site gives nutritional data on many foods:
this is for one whole egg:
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...products/127/2

You can look up what you need to eat and see what it provides.
The upper left gives serving size.

Mrs. D – I've been a vegan for so long (other than the limited dairy) that now it would be too difficult to consume meat products. I can eat a cookie or other items that contain eggs but I cannot eat them on their own or an omelette, etc., nothing like that. Could I take a choline supplement?

I used the online tool and it looks like I need 1295.8 mg of methionine + cysteine. :confused:


Joano - I could not be more confused about supplements for bones. I've looked into them and there are quite a few available: strontium, Biosil, and now Sytrinol (Nobiletin) aka citrus pith and others. All have studies to back them but why are they not more popular?

Also, I purchased the Doctors Best Strontium and subsequently ran across this article which caused me to worry about taking it:
http://www.news-medical.net/news/201...an-Agency.aspx

I am a true believer in supplements but which one?

Choline is for building and repairing cell membranes and receptors. Not many foods are as high in choline as eggs.
You can take it in a supplement. Some multivitamins now have it added (mostly children's.)

So you can get a quality supplement for your methionine.
Vegans have to be really careful... they get low in Omega 3's too.

With all that Nexium you may not have any acid in your stomach to break the meat down anymore.
So supplements may be the only way to go for you now.

I am not angry. Sorry, didn't mean to rain on the parade. It is an interesting site. I just didn't like that statement because I am not on-board with figuring out which chemicals in foods are helpful, then isolating them and supplementing with them. It doesn't work as well as eating the whole food, because it is all the compounds in the whole food together that is helpful. But I am glad I have my supplements that help with my PN, so it's not all bad.
Ron

@Beatle..
I forgot to mention the usefulness of whey protein.
With your lifestyle, it could provide the
needed aminos. It is predigested so no
Worries there.

Better than cheese with less saturated
Fat.

Mrs D,

Now I just need a whey protein pizza that tastes as good as cheese pizza. :o

Really though, thank you. I know I need to be more flexible with my food intake.

What do you think of this product:

http://smile.amazon.com/Garden-Life-...f+life+calcium

I thought it might be good since the calcium is from algae.

Looks pretty good if you can afford it... serving is 4 capsules.

I wouldn't count on the probiotics though...those are typically unstable and "touchy" to get fresh.

That proprietary blend also is not much of anything... but it looks good on the label.

I have no idea if it works though, but the ingredients claimed are up to date.

You can still have pizza... for a treat. I just think using the whey product daily in your juicing would provide more aminos than pizza would.

I just purchased some whey protein and will try the raw calcium (already have that) as well.

My nerves, muscles and bones have wasted before my eyes over the past 2.5 years and like many others with PN, my blood work just came back perfect, besides low urine calcium...and then of course the bone scan confirmed the osteoporosis diagnosis.

I recall learning about diabetic-related muscle wasting, there is a term for it...it goes to a point then stops and can reverse. That is what I am hoping is happening with me (even though I am not diabetic).

Does anyone know what that is called?

Mind of their own fingers thsnk you aside, is it diabetic muscle infarction?

From my experience muscle issues are abounding and my glucose is rather well controlled. It has me perplexed, but I then consider the road to here.

I don't think I am dealing with this issue per se, though I guess it is possible. My calf muscles are in a perpetual Mr. Universe mode, it seems.

I hope you feel better, Beatle.

Jon

Thanks Jon, you too. :)

The word I was trying to think of was Cachexia. I don't know if it applies or not but the symptoms are certainly present along with all of the others.

Many of us here experience frustration with the medical care that we receive, myself included. I got the impression from my doctor that he feels that I have become inactive by choice when he told me I need to exercise more. I agree! But I have not been athletic most of my life to reach my mid 40s and decide to give it up and become osteoporotic. I am as physically active as I can be which is not much these days I admit but here is no choice in the matter.

Sorry for the rant. Two days ago I was on my deathbed, yesterday I was almost symptom-free and felt pretty good and today I have a lot of numbness, loss of balance and coordination. Based on that, how is one supposed to plan a life (and additional workouts)? :confused:

I just read an article by Dr. Al Sears who recommends 150 mcg of MK-7 from vitamin K2 per day for osteoporosis. He said our primal ancestors got plenty of this because they ate organ meats, but we don't so much any more. He said you could also get it from egg yolks though, (I know, you don't like eggs), milk from grass-fed cows, and Swiss cheeses like Emmenthal and Norwegian Jarlsberg. He also said some new studies just released showed that calcium does not stop osteoporosis.

Thank you Joano. :)

I definitely don't do organ meats (:-)) but I took Mrs. D's advice and had a whey protein shake today. It was pretty good. I do also like Swiss and Jarlsberg cheeses.

Thank you for the K2 info. I do know about calcium not reversing osteoporosis, in fact currently there is nothing known that does.

All I can do is pick myself up off the ground (err, bed), take my supplements and do weight-bearing exercises on the days that I can.

This is still a mystery. No one in my family has had any neurological diseases, also no one with osteoporosis, not even 90-year-old grandmothers.