Does getting an electric shock damage the brain?
 

Say for example you were to get shocked by an household electrical outlet/ power socket as you were pulling out a plug but some how managed to touch the two metal prongs on the plug in the process of pulling it out, would a quick shock like that reach the brain? And even worse, fry it, causing thermal heat injury to tissue? I read somewhere that it potentially also could cause concussive forces leading to irreversible damage.

So, well, I pulled out a plug from an extension cord, which required me to use one hand to keep it in place, and the other to pull out the plug itself to break the circuit. Well, what happened was that, it was a bit hard to plug out, but when I pulled with enough force it eventually dislodged from the socket. Unfortunately, I could feel the two metal prongs touching my other hand when it was pulled out. So I'm now not entirely sure if I was actually shocked or not, because it went so fast. So is an electrical outlet as hazardeous to your health as people make it out to be? Isn't it normal to have tried being shocked by one, at least once?

Minimac,

I have been shocked by electricity many times. Believe me, you would know it if you had been shocked. It the electricity went down your finger from one plug end to the other, you would feel a tingle or zap in your finger. Nothing would make it past your finger.

If you touched a separate live wire with each hand, the shock would go up your right arm, across your chest and down your left arm. Ouch, that would sting. It would also be bad for your heart if the shock was more than momentary. But, it would not effect your brain. You would need one or both of the wires to be contacting your head to shock your brain.

To get a sense of what an electrical shock feels like, you can try this. Get a 9 volt battery with those snap connectors on the top. Wet your finger and touch both snap connectors. You will feel a 9 volt 5 to 30 milliAmp shock. An electrical power cord would be up to 100 times that if good contact is make.

Most people have dry skin so very little current will flow through their skin. That is why you need to wet your fingers to get a shock from the 9 volt battery.

When I did electrical work in homes, I would routinely use my fingers (same hand) to test for a live circuit. Even with the higher volts and amps of a house circuit, I would still need to wet my fingers just to get a mild sizzle.

So, again, No, you did not shock your brain, probably not even your fingers.

Wait what, so even touching both metal prongs at the same time with one hand won't give you a dangerous shock because it only will reach your fingers / hand at the most, why's that, it's got no where to flow but back ? I thought you only needed to touch the ground to complete a circuit. Also you touched routinely electricity equal to that of a power socket? (at around 10 - 13 amps and 220 volt here in Europe I think). Will it never reach the brain unless the circuit directly is applied to the head, since it takes the shortest path or something?

People make it out to be extremely dangerous, but what they mean then, is if you touch with two hands at the same time? What about two fingers? I thought if you touched with one finger it would go through you and then into the ground through your feet, meaning it would enter one side of your chest or something.

Minimac,
Don't mess with mains electrics -Full Stop. Ring mains in Europe carry up to 30 amps and there is reason legislation is in place for all electrical work to be carried out by qualified electricians.
Accidental or deliberate electrocution will lead to burns, pain or death.

Dave.

Playing with electricity is dangerous. Period.

I was not suggesting playing with electricity. Never would.

The others are right. If you touched a hot wire and you had a ground through your feet or some other body part, the electricity would flow through any part of your body that is between those two points. That would be dangerous. But, you said you touched both prongs at the same time with the same hand. The electricity would want to flow from one prong to the other just across your finger or hand.

But, if you did not feel a shock, you did not get shocked.

Here in the US, the voltage is 110-120 volts. The amperage would usually be 15 to 30 amps. Only electric stoves and electric clothes dryers routinely use 220-240 volts but they are on a isolated high amperage (50 amp) circuit.

We also have modern homes wired with Ground Fault Circuit Interrupters. They shut off the power when they sense a leak of power to anything. A touch of even a very dry finger will shut off the power. The shock will be barely perceptible but the power will go out. They started in limited areas near water in the 1970's and are now required in almost the whole house.

They are required on the plug end of hair dryers, curling irons and corded electric shavers since they are routinely used near water/sinks.

In most cases, a house can be rewired with GFCI's for a reasonable amount. They can even work in an old two wire home electrical system without a ground wire system.

If you get shocked by walking across a carpeted floor, you can reduce the chance of shock by lightly spraying the carper with salt water. Just a slight mist from a misting sprayer filled with salt water will reduce or end the shocks. We had a problem with this. The static charge from walking across the carpet would shock the laptop computer at first touch and shut it off.

If you are concerned about electrical shocks, especially if you routinely use extension cords, getting an update to your outlets and circuit panel would be worthwhile.

Different locations & countries have differing wiring, and a place could be incorrectly wired or not up to code, so that has to be considered too.

But generally, most people will know if they got a zap from wires or plugs.

If you didn't feel a clear zap it certainly wouldn't be enough to hurt the brain.

Having worked a burns unit at one time in my career many years ago, I'd suggest not.

I see that in Europe, a GFCI is known as a RCBO (residual-current circuit breaker with overload protection) . You guys sure have a different way of wiring a house. Ring Circuits (ring mains) used to be used in the high voltage neighborhood distribution system but we never used rings inside the house.

Contrary to Minimac's idea, I don't think many people want to test out what it feels like to get shocked. I got it once across the chest and hope to never feel that again.

I hope Minimac never tries to find out what it feels like.

Can leaving the plug halfway into an electrical outlet cause it to burst out and emit sparks that can shock your hand near the outlet? Because sometimes if you can't plug it in quickly enough you can literally hear the electricity floating around and burn marks on the metal prongs can be seen when pulled out. It just worries me that the electricity maybe could create a gap from the metal prongs to your hand through the air by a blue spark or something.

Or is the electricity so relatively low in amps and voltage that a gap through the air isn't possible and you HAVE to physically touch the metal prongs to become a part of the circuit?

Turning the switch off before plugging in or unplugging a lead or a device is the way to do it.

Switches are made for that purpose.

You should never plug in an appliance or such that is already turned on. Make sure the device is off. If it is off, there will be no electricity arcing as the prong comes near the receptacles. If there is any arcing, the electricity is only flowing across that arc. There is no electricity 'floating' around.

You would HAVE to put your hand into that arc or physically touch the prong to receive a shock. And, you would know you were shocked and would even have a small burn at the point of the arc. It would be painful.

Have you ever experienced a shock from static electricity from a rug, carpet or such ? A shock from house wiring would be much worse.

The only way there will ever be anything radiating away from the prongs is if there is a strong arc and the brass prong melts in a very small spot. This melting brass can create a mini-explosion and splatter away from the prong. This is a splatter of molten metal, not electricity. This is why it is important to not have the appliance or light on while plugging it in.

I do electric arc welding where an electric arc is used to melt the steel so the parts can be fused together. I can have my hand (gloved so I don't get burned) within inches of the arc and not receive a shock. Welding often uses 100 to 200 amps. btw, The gloves are leather and have conductivity similar to dry skin.

It is important to remember that electricity follows the path of least resistance. Air has a very high resistance with virtually no conductivity. Dry skin has high resistance and low conductivity. The brass has very high conductivity and almost no resistance so the electricity will jump a small air gap from the high conductive receptacle to the high conductive prong.

So, NO, you are not getting an unknown shock from plugging in or removing a plug unless you physically touch the prongs and feel the ouch of a shock.

But it's apparantly true that electricians check for a live wire / outlet with the back of their hand at times, so it must not have any permanent damage of any sort on the body. Does electric outlets have enough punch in them to heat tissue? Or is it only the heart that is at risk? And can you regenerate if you ever were to get shocked.

Nevertheless, I would get burned on the skin at point of contact right? As I can understand from above.

Most electricians would check for a live wire with a volt meter or circuit tester. Some of us will do a finger test. The only damage would be to a few skin cells at the point of contact.

Electrical outlets do have enough power to heat tissue but nobody would touch a live wire long enough to heat tissue. The shock would cause an instant pull away. There is a big difference between the risk of touching a live wire and pinching or grabbing a live wire. Pinching or grabbing a live wire is a good way to get electrocuted and possibly killed. The electricity can cause the finger muscles to spasm preventing the fingers from letting go. Then, what would have been a momentary shock that was just uncomfortable can become a heart stopping electrocution.

So, stay away from electrical wires. Turn off the appliance or light before unplugging them. Then pull the plug in a single motion.

I have NEVER come across a living qualified electrician who uses anything but meters to check wiring. ONE AMP CAN KILL YOU. Why mess around with something so lethal? Would you check to see if a road was clear by closing your eyes and stepping off the kerb?

Turn off appliances, lights and sockets before unplugging, only hold the plastic body of the plug and, if using an extension cord, use your other hand to hold that firmly.

We would rather NOT lose you from the Forum.

Dave.

Alright, so let me get this straight. If you were shocked by an outlet you would know if there was any damage and there would be symptoms if tissue and/or organs were damaged. And also, outlets don't contain enough volt to jump a gap/spark through the air and shock you?

EDIT:
Just realized, that according to theory: electricity follows the path of least resistance, I got that covered. Now that also means that it would never jump a gap between you and the metal prongs (creating an arc spark) because the metal prongs have much less resistance than the human body (the skin) along with the air it has to ionize. So it would never jump a gap through the air if the plug is halfway plugged into the outlet, no matter how close your fingers are, because the metal prongs is a much better conductor, right? Or are you still a potential victim since it can reach the ground through you? Or does it reach the ground through the metal prongs too anyway?

On second thought, why doesn't the electricity ignore your body and proceed to flow through the metal prongs instead of you, even when you touch them? Why does it bother to go through the resistance of the skin when the metal prongs are there already providing a path to ground.

If you were shocked, you would know it. You might even say some words that are inappropriate. You would quickly pull away so the shock would only last a fraction of a second. It would take high power to injure you beyond a burn on your fingers or such.

If you touched only one prong that was connected to live power, the electricity would try to find a path through your body to a ground. If another part of your body was touching a ground, then, you would get zapped. If you were not touching a ground, the electrical flow would be limited and might still zap you as it tried to find a path through your body. Plastic or rubber soled shoes would have an insulating factor so that zap would be limited.

If the electricity has a choice between a low resistance point like the other prong or a high resistance point like your body with plastic or rubber soled shoes, it will take that low resistance route.

Electricity HAS to complete a path or circuit to flow.

If you got shocked to a level that would cause damage, hopefully someone would be there to pick you up off the floor and take you to the hospital. But, if all you got was a zap that caused you to pull away, it is very unlikely that you suffered any damage beyond a small burn to your finger.

But, when you pulled the plug apart, you did not feel a shock so you did not get shocked.

Yeah, partly correct. While I didn't feel anything, I sure as hell pulled away super fast when I heard a loud electricity sound, and a small spark appeared in the process of pulling it out. But I hope that was a reflex. Even though both scenarios would release adrenaline in the body.

I think my problem lies within, that I don't know what it truly feels like, so my mind makes up all the scenarios that I could have been shocked and that I simply didn't pay attention to the pain. Does your finger hurt? or does your whole body or arm hurt. Ironically I hope it hurts like hell, because then I can be more sure that I didn't get a shock. Some people describe that their finger feels numb for up to an hour after. But then it worries me that some say they don't feel pain, but rather a very unpleasant overall feeling.

I've only ever tried getting shocked by an electric fence, and I remember it was like receiving a punch to the stomach resulting in some breathing difficulty, along with my legs giving out making me fall to the ground. And while I wouldn't describe that as pain either, it sure as hell was a very unpleasant event. Luckily the electricity was send through the fence only every 3 seconds or so. I can imagine an electric outlet feels way worse? Or does it just burn more because of lower volt and more amp?

I'm quite unsure as of what mixture of volt and amp makes a deadly combination. Does all the 15 - 30 amps in an outlet pass through your hand or chest in a fraction of a second at 220 volt? Or would that take a lot more volt? I can only find that, if your skin is dry and you get exposed to a relatively low voltage appliance under 500 v only a couple of miliamps (mA) can pass through your body? Is that why you can survive? Since I hear that only a few miliamps can stop the heart, 15 - 30 amps through the chest must make the heart explode. But and outlet creating a circuit past your heart doesn't always kill you, is that because the volt is low and hence the amps is lowered? 10 - 15 amps simply can't pass through you at under 500 volt?

A professional electricians site should have that detailed information that you are asking about.

Minimac,

What you heard was a miniature thunder clap with some sparking as the a very tiny part of the metal exploded. It was between the plug and the receptacle, not your finger and the plug. If it had been between your finger and the plug and there was a spark, you would have a deep burn on your finger. But, skin has too much resistance to cause a spark unless the skin is wet and salty. Even then it would be more of a sizzle than a spark.

An electric fence is very high volts but very low amps. Plus, it uses a capacitor/coil that 'collects' the electrical energy for a microsecond burst. There should not be enough energy in an electric fence to cause one to fall down. That would be a dangerous fence and against safety standards. The startle could knock someone off their feet. Once an electric fence makes a ground through a body, cow, horse, person etc., and the initial shock has discharged, the residual energy is very low. Fence energizers have a circuit breaker that automatically resets after a second or two so the energizer can recharge.

An electric outlet, in my experience, does not hurt quite like an electric fence if the outlet jolt is just a momentary jolt. But, it can be far more dangerous because the current is continuous as long as the person is in contact and makes a ground.

Regarding the feeling after getting shocked. Unless the shock is across the chest or more than a momentary jolt, I have never felt any residual discomfort.

I suggest you not try to figure out what voltage and amperage combinations are dangerous. In house wiring, they all are. Instead, learn proper procedure. Turn off the appliance or light before disconnecting the plug.

And, from what you have related, you were NOT shocked. You were startled by the arcing and popping, that is all.

This from an Electrical Technician:

Quote
50mA will kill you. 30mA might well do so.

As others have said - its all down to the current (amps). Dry skin is an alright (I use the term loosely) insulator - plenty of resistance, so not much current flow (assuming you're acting as an earth path). You'll probably get away with it. Probably.

Wet or sweaty skin (nerves from working on live electrics maybe?) has a low resistance, so you get a lot of current flow. Bang, you're dead.

If you manage to connect yourself in series with another electric load that's drawing current - you're definitely dead. (Dave here: so if you touch a live plug prong/wire from an appliance/light that is switched on…This appertains to your Edit.)

A fuse or an MCB protects against overcurrent. If you have a 13A fuse in your plug, by the time it blows, you'll probably be dead (remember 50mA = 0.05A). An RCD measures the difference in current in the live and neutral cores. If they differ by more than the "trip" value, they trip.
Quote.

From me: Dry skin may be a 'good' insulator, but burnt skin is an EXCELLENT conductor and with AC your muscles go into spasm at 60hz if you grasp a live wire - so you cannot let go. Your heart also tries to synch up with this rhythm causing death.

Try to understand, as little as 15mA across your heart can stop it - and you need someone there with medical expertise to bring you back.

Also remember that many older houses do not have Circuit Breakers in the UK/Europe, and that if fitted and you use an extension cord with one fitted, the two combined cause a noticeable lag in the time it takes to 'trip'.

I was an Electronic Shielding Engineer/Quality Manager, using testing equipment running at ultra-high voltages. I don't mess around with household electrics.

Dave.

I see, so an electric fence is not dangerous because it isn't constant, what if that applied to an outlet? If an outlet was with intervals inbetween, would it be like an electric fence?


Also, what I've gathered, in terms of constant electricity, the most dangerous combinations are:

Very high voltage with low current, since apparently this has a lot of punch. 50.000 volt at only 0.1 A (or is it 1 mA?) can kill.

Medium/high voltage with medium/high amp, this is what an electrical socket consists of.



very high current with low volt is apparently not that dangerous. Is this because the volt is so low that it can't push the current through a body?

This is why I am unsure whether not an electric outlet is capable of pushing all its current that its capacity potentially allow it to hold, through a human body It has to push 0.1 - 1 amp at a time? Because that is all the 220 volt is capable of? If it conducted all its 10 - 15 amp, everyone would die by accidental shock from electric outlets, wouldn't they? So current doesn't matter to some extent, if the volt is relatively too low?

The electric fence is not dangerous because it is not constant and it has low amperage, 0.5 amps or less, usually 0.1 amps. A 220 volt circuit like in Europe can have 20 to 30 amps available just like a 110 to 120 circuit in the US can have 20 to 30 amps available. The available amps is just that, available. What flows is dependent of the resistance and draw. The voltage is constant. So a 220 volt circuit always deliver 220 volts. A 120 volt circuit with 30 amps available powering a USB charger for an iPhone will only have 0.15 amps to the transformer and 5 volts at 0.5 amps or less flowing to the iPhone.

A stun gun or taser can deliver 20,000 to 150,000 volts. Some even go into the millions of volts. But, they range from 1-2 to up to 5 milliamps. 0.005 amps. They do not kill but they disrupt the electric signals sent to muscles so the target is either weakened or incapacitated. But, a stun gun flows between the two electrodes, not to ground. So, it is not like an across the chest electric shock. They can be dangerous for someone with a weak heart or if they are used for too long.

But, back to the household outlet. The electricity flowing from an outlet can kill you, whether it is 120 volts or 220 volts. But, you will feel the shock. If you do not feel a shock, you were not shocked.

I suggest you consider getting an outlet tester. It is a simple device that plugs into the outlet. You push a button on it and it tells you if the outlet is properly grounded, if it has a working GFCI/RCBO/RCD or circuit breaker. In the US, they sell for $5 for a simple one to $30 for one with extra features.

In some locals, the fire department or other public safety agency can test the outlets for you.

A fuse or circuit breaker without a GFCI/RCBO/RCD will not protect you from a dangerous shock. But, a working GFCI/RCBO/RCD will protect you.

You should not look at electricity as safe or dangerous. It is all to be considered dangerous. The low voltage electric circuits that are not dangerous are not commonly used in a house except for things like a door bell or air conditioning and heater controls.

So, stay away from electricity and use proper procedure when you plug or unplug something. Turn it off first.

Minimac,
People don't get electrocuted by outlets because they are made of non-conductive material and are earthed, or double earthed for safety (in case the 'live' wire develops a fault). You have already worked out that the air resistance is too great to conduct a current.

Dave.

Okay so I figured out why it sparked, when other appliances is plugged into the extension cord before I connect the extension cord itself to the power outlet, it will spark inside the outlet if, for example, a computer or monitor is connected to the extensiord cord. Dunno exactly why this is, but I presume it's because of some kinda overload? Anyways, if nothing is connected to the extension cord, and I THEN plug it in an outlet, it will not spark. However, it causes intense amount of heat in both scenarios if plugged halfway into the outlet. I'm just worried that simply because it makes spark sounds that it can actually arc your finger if it comes too close to one of the metal prongs.

It's just that I'm so concerned about this due to I've heard that being shocked by an electrical outlet can cause you to develop neuropathy and such. On the other hand, some people laugh at electricians being shocked by outlets saying: "They're bound to have it happen" to them at some point. Is this true? That most if not all electricians prepare themselves to get their fair amount of shocks during their career?

Now when I think about it, I think I was shocked some years ago by a faulty extension cord, but that wasn't from the outlet in the wall, instead from one of the outlets in the actual extension cord. I think I accidentally inserted my hand into the sparking arc that was produced, but it wasn't really more than a burning feeling in my finger. If a shock from an outlet is dangerous it would hurt a lot throughout most of the body right? How can I be sure no internal organs has been heated?

Does the arcing sparks emitting from outlets conduct constant flow? Or is it only static electricity that exists for a mere 1/1000 of a second or something?

Oh and, what if supposedly your head touched the ceiling while getting shocked? Could it potentially travel through your head?

People tend to perceive electricity as an ultimatum it seems, either you live with no real residual symptoms or you'll die because of the heart giving out.

Minimac,

You are mixing things up. If something is plugged into the outlet or extension cord and THAT ITEM IS TURNED ON, it draws power. When you disconnect the plug, this flowing power will arc across from the outlet/extension cord to the plug ONLY when the the prongs are just breaking contact.

There is no overload. If the item is NOT TURNED ON, there will be NO ARCHING.

It will not try to arc to your finger because YOUR BODY IS NOT TURNED ON DRAWING POWER.

A momentary shock at your finger where you quickly pull away to end the shock DO NOT CAUSE Neuropathy.

Any electrician who plans on getting shocked is not a good electrician. An electrician should never be touching live exposed wires with his bare hands. There are insulated pliers and other tools for safely working with live wires. But, a good electrician would know how to avoid getting shocked. He would know that when he needs to work with a live wire, there are steps he can take to minimize his risk.

If you were shocked enough to 'heat' internal organs, you would have need an emergency trip to the hospital or a casual trip to the morgue. There are no shocks that you walk away from that damage internal organs.

"Does the arcing sparks emitting from outlets conduct constant flow?" The arc is momentary while the electricity is trying to flow across the gap. The sparks that splatter do not have an electricity in them. They are just very small pieces of molten metal burning up. Yes, metal burns up. If those sparks touch you, you will not be shocked. They might leave a small pin prick size burn because they are very hot.

"Or is it only static electricity that exists for a mere 1/1000 of a second or something?" It is not static electricity. The arc exists for as long as the gap is small enough for the electricity to arc across. In some cases, if that arc lasts too long, a fuse or circuit breaker will shut the power off.

Your head would have to make a contact to a ground (earth) for electricity to flow from your hand to your head. A ceiling is insulated with paint and other things that make it a poor conductor so no ground would be made.

What you need to remember is simple. DO NOT PLUG OR UNPLUG AN ITEM WHILE IT IS TURNED ON or you risk causing a spark from the arcing. The arcing will not shock you if you keep you hands on the plastic or rubber parts that do not conduct electricity.

I just don't fully understand how there can be arcing between the receptable and the plug? According to Mythbusters, the air can conduct electricity at a distance of 1 cm every 10.000 volt. So how can 220 or 240 volt creat an arc? Is it because of the plug prongs material having low resistance? Arcing would never happen to you as easy as with the metal prongs?

Oh and wait, so, draw or no draw, the risk and danger of the electricity remains the same?

The distance of the gap is likely only 0.01 to 0.02 cm across. The two pieces are actually touching but not continuously. One piece drags across the other with momentary breaks in that contact. The arcing happens during those momentary breaks in contact.

For example, if you wiggled the plug apart, you likely made contact and broke contact as you wiggled the plug. A plug would have line A and line B plus a ground (earth). (in the US it is hot and neutral plus a ground if 120. It would be line A and line B plus a ground in an old 3 prong 220/240 plug and with a neutral wire in newer 4 prong 220/240 plug) You might pull the plug so that the line A prong separates but the line B prong is stuck. You wiggle the plug and the line A prong makes momentary close contact and arcs before you succeed in removing the line B prong. But, this arcing would only happen if the appliance or light is on.

I have no idea what you mean when you say "Oh and wait, so, draw or no draw, the risk and danger of the electricity remains the same? "

btw, Receptacles and plugs are designed to handle this arcing in momentary increments. If a plug repeatedly arcs as you plug it in, it has likely been damaged and should be replaced. Sometimes, an extension cord end will weaken and cause arcing so the extension cord should be replaced. If a light flickers and you hear a sizzle coming from the plug, unplug it and get it repaired or replaced.

But again, THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN IF THE APPLIANCE OR LIGHT IS PROPERLY TURNED OFF FIRST.

What if I have wet hands and insert or pull a plug? Will the odds of an arc jumping a gap to my hands/fingers increase then? Or does dry and and wet hands make no difference in how long the electricity can jump a gap through the air?

Don't touch a plug with wet hands.

Hi Minimac

This thread really no longer has relevance to this forum and you have been given advice about the dangers of experimenting with electrical shock.

I am locking this now, as it is distracting from what this forum is concerned with.