What do you guys think....
 

Right before bed tonight, Vince told me casually that his new case manager was 'mean' to him when he was crying at school. I asked what happened, he could only say that she wouldn't hug him, told him to go sit under the table, and that 5th graders don't cry. :mad: :mad: :mad: So, below is what I think is a WAY REASONABLE letter I sent to her:


I need some clarity on something Vince was trying to explain to me. He said he was crying at school, and you told him to go sit under a table to cry, that 5th graders don't cry, and that really hurt his feelings.

Vince is a little tape recorder, I have no doubt this was said. I also have no doubt there is more the story, and he was not able to tell it. Could you please explain what happened? He was very upset. He said you refused to hug him as well.

I would expect if my child was upset to tears at school, he would be consoled - and not because I requested it, but because of a true and deep caring for him. I will really try and hear your perception of things. I really do try to work as a team and support the adults that work with my son. I want to be reasonable and hear you out, but I feel Vince should never walk away with the perceptions he did today no matter what.

You absolutely did the right thing.

The teacher is likely NT. She gets to go home at the end of the day and this is probably just a job. Especially if she's not giving a much needed hug.

Teachers that have no compassionate feelings **** me off.

I sure hope she had a good reason-- but since its unlikely that Vince is making up a story. She's got some esplainin' to do.

The issue isn't what you have said so far Mili, it's how you will react to her reply. Have you thought what tact you will take next if she says.

"Look I am really sorry, I did say that and shouldn't have. I apologised to Vincent today"

or

"He must have misunderstood me as I didnt say that at all."

I am always thinking one step ahead to the next aspect so I am prepared for any response. Nothing worse than being caught off guard.

Good luck

If she says something like:

"I am sorry, I dont recall saying anything of the kind. By the way Vince has been acting up a lot lately is everything ok at home?"

Just hit her with your handbag and make sure you have a small brick inside it first.

Unfortunately, as they get older the autistic kid is not anymore "cute, poor little kid" as I found out, as I saw happening with my son and my son is 32 and it started when he was 10, that's how he ended up on Thorazine.

He would meet people with no sense of humour and that their attitude was "show him who is the boss", "show him who is in charge" from there to physical intimidation and abuse was a short step, from there to lash out in self-defense another mini-step and then the conclusion that he is a danger to himself and to others.

My son would always be cute to us, to caregivers who really like, love him but while on drugs and from the abuse, his behaviour became unexpectedly bizarre, aggressive and self-injurious. Now he is mellowing out, everybody can see the change and are amazed, but took a loooong time and still is not totally out of the woods.

...more that case manager is not going to accept culpability and is going to place the blame on Vince.

((((((((((Mili)))))))))))))) and ((((((((((((((Vince)))))))))))))). :(

I think you're right on, hon'. Hell, you were probably more diplomatic than I mighta been! :rolleyes: :o Please let us know how this turns out, and give Vince a squeeze for me.



LIZARD

Good gravy you must be an imposter!! The moldy headed woman I know could never write such a brief note or post.

In any case, I like the note. I personally would be going completely balistic if she confirms telling him to sit under the table for anything besides a emergency drill (or true emergency of course).
I would follow up with the brick in purse as Supermama suggested for the 5th graders don't cry comment if that is true. Is she trying to ruin his entire life?
My third and last comment... I really don't want teachers hugging my child. I think its something I would talk to him about at some point... just my thing though. Never give a pervert an opening, and though the teacher may not be... its just prep for a perv.

Keg...if the length, or lack of it, is not proof that the RDI I keep preaching about is great, I dunno what is, hee hee.

Lizard, I'm diplomatic (for now) cause I can't tell you how many times I've gotten wound up, only to get to the bottom of things and get a comment from Vince like, "oh, she only said it in my head".

Isabelle, I totally hear you about the 'cuteness factor' wearing off the older they get. Not to me, but yes to others. As far as her placing any blame on Vince, that will not fly with me at all...and I've been unusually blessed that overall, I have not had that problem with his school. It's more along the lines of what can the adults around him do, to help an incident not reoccur.

Peta, I am almost devoid of the ability to think beyond the next move in this type of situation. Sometimes I can, but really, I just am sort of a fly by the seat of my pants kind of gal. I do know if she admitted to all this, I then would not want her with Vince anymore cause woah, that was just too much. If she denies it all, same reaction...cause no way would he be able to make all that up. If she asked if it was something wrong at home, I'd say "yeah, he came home crying cause you...." and I'd retell what Vince told. But yep, thinking like folks do when they play chess would be awesome. Just not my forte, although when I have thought to the next step it has been awesome to have the preparation!

JungleJugs, I'm still hoping beyond hope, that it was some huge perception problem...that on the one hand yes she said things simular but with a completely different meaning and intention that Vince did not perceive as she meant. I'll definately be trying to read between the lines when she responds.

Thank you all, I'm obviously upset and worried. I'm really scared of what this year could bring. Fortunately I kept busy, I removed all my vinyl and subflooring from my kitchen...found some awesome wood laminate including underlayment for only $1/sq ft. I have a way cool blister from hammering back the zillion staples someone used to tack down the subflooring. But, my mind is still on what happened, I'm trying to stay cool and keep my mind off the visual of my son sobbing under a table after being shamed for crying, all by himself, all alone.

But, we'll get to the bottom of this, I just have to wait till monday. I think I've been kind of teetering on the down end of worrying about his future, you all know how that goes.

Mili

Bwahahahahaha - at Junglejugs - Visions of a cross between Tarzans wife and Pam Anderson swinging past occur with this new title.

Mili - let me get this right - you dont want this woman around your Vince if she comes clean and admits what happened. and you dont want her about him if she says if didnt happen - So why are you even asking her? She doesnt get to win in any situation other than if Vince just heard her say that in his head, which isnt likely as it was too specific and detailed. So regardless you need to get on to how she no longer works with him.

Lordy I am still coping with Jungle jugs as a nick name.

Peta

I don't know about that. I mean as ticked off as all those things would make me... I would have to know if there was an explanation for what Vince heard
I've been the victim of people misunderstanding things I have said (adults) and taking them completely out of context.
There could be a very logical reason for it. I think not addressing it with the person would be a huge mistake.

By the way

"...I removed all my vinyl and subflooring from my kitchen...found some awesome wood laminate including underlayment for only $1/sq ft. I have a way cool blister from hammering back the zillion staples someone used to tack down the subflooring......"

Wheww... no doubt its you now Moldy ;) Still would love to see that video sometime.

I know you are a formidable mom and you will get to the bottom of this.

As the child gets older and hormones start to kick emotions is time to get teachers to learn about feelings and to teach charges how to deal with them and not sweep them, literally, under the (rug), in this case, table.

If, in any situation, Vince is telling the truth (ruling out the chances that "she said that in my head") and I have no doubt that he is, there is ways to deal with feelings without hugs or touching (Right, Keg)) just spend a few minutes relating with comments about life is tough, life is not fair, the problem is not yours (in some cases) and you have to realize that some people never will acknowledge wrongdoing (like a politician when being confronted: deny,denied, avoid, blame the victim, etc.).

I remember when the autistics had good caregivers and when one would have a "bad moment" the caregiver would stop him and talk very calmly, soothing the autistic, saying nice words and then a few jokes until the autistic smiled, all done quietly the others and some parents hardly would noticed. Now is considered an "anxiety attack" and given an Ativan :mad:

I know you will overcome this, but is time to face the problem of some people of authority, grown ups, not able to feel for others. You have already created a embracing home where your children can express their feelings without being putting down as weaklings. That's important.

Isabelle, I agree, in fact part of what has helped Vincent's aggression over the summer, was me telling him it was ok to cry but not ok to hit, etc etc... so he started crying at the beginning of his rages instead of at the end, and this avoided his aggression. BTW we are still reducing his meds, other than strattera. I'm hoping by 2007, the paxil and risperdal will be gone all together. However, I'm assuming he will need something to sleep *sigh*

Keg, I totally plan to address it, and haa haa about my flooring quote.

Peta, glad you liked 'JungleJugs'...you might have missed JungleButt and one or two others I can't think of. You always give bad nicknames to the ones you love, right? Right! You'd said "Mili - let me get this right - you dont want this woman around your Vince if she comes clean and admits what happened. and you dont want her about him if she says if didnt happen - So why are you even asking her?"

Cause I'm believing there's a lot in between those possibilities. I'm dealing so far with Vincent's perception only. He's 10, he's autistic, so I have to hear her perception. I'm holding out hoping it's a matter of a completely different perception on both their parts - have you ever been in situations where both sides are 'true', but neither side understands what is true for the other.

I've done or said things to benefit or compliment Vince that he thought I was trying to be 'mean'. But, now that I've let her know HIS perception, I want to see not just her explanation but how she treats the whole situation. I mean, I have to take it ALL in first, then I can process and form a conclusion. I think lots of my conclusions are 'gut feeling' too. Anyhow, I just have to wait. But in the two scenarios above, it is true, I would not want her with him cause that would mean she's either a liar that's got a short temper with kids, or a truthful person with a short temper with kids.

Ok, taking a break from my floor project. Someone reeeeeally loved using their staple gun...these friggin things are almost 2" long, and so help me there is scarcely a square inch of floor that doesn't have one in it. Good thing is, the kids are too busy to get in any trouble - well as much trouble as usual I mean.

Mili

Okay well that all makes sence.

Apart from the floor bit. I thought you had already damn near renovated and redecorated your house from top to bottom. Are you on the second time around redoing everything?

Puppy waking me most mornings at 5 am. Forgot what it was like to have a baby in the house.

JungleJugs???:eek:

ROFLOLOLOLOLOL!!!

You need a bra made out of leopard skin cloth and straps of vine.

Funny you should mention that... I just so happen to have a brand new one right here...

just kidding.

But as soon as I lose the rest of this weight, the leopard print is all mine.:D

Hey McButterButt!

I was wondering when the heck you were going to respond to my 'name calling' with a good old fashion rofl or lol.

Moldy :D

Ok, got a response...


As a mother I can appreciate how upsetting it is to think that your
child was upset and not comforted. I appreciate your concerns and I'm
not surprised that Vince told you about his day in the way that he did.
Vince was in art class at the beginning of the day and early in the
class, I saw Mrs. XXX standing outside the art room. I asked what was
wrong and she said the Vince was upset and acting depressed and she
couldn't get him out of the room. I got him out of the art room by just
motioning for him to come and told him that I was sorry he was sad - I
gave him a great deal of empathy, but suggested that crying in art class
was disturbing to the other students and that when we are in 5th grade,
we cry in a more private place. - I did NOT say 5th graders do not cry
- I said they should not cry in art class when other students are trying
to work, but I understand that Vince may have missed that message. I
do care about Vince - and wanted his dignity to be preserved as well as
to have him know that he is cared for. Mrs. XXX was present when I said
these things. Vince continued about how he wants to put his head on
Mrs. XXX lap and that she was mean. I took Vince down to our room, I
listened and empathized with him for a while and then he sat and read
some books before we worked. He was perfectly calm and happy. I took
over for Mrs. XXX for a while to see how he would react to another adult.
And he did just fine - no crying, no depression. We even did some work.
He was fine until Mrs. XXX returned and then his discussion about sadness
resumed. I had other students to work with, but I observed Vince
working with another SEA, Mrs. ZZZZ without any depression/tears.

By the afternoon, it became clear to us that Vince was able to refocus
his sadness. I'm not saying it was intentional - I just do know that he
was able to refocus. We were working alone in the room and Vince was
resisting doing work. I give him one row (about 7 problems) of simple
addition to do. He began speaking about my sadness- asking about my
family members who died - I asked him to finish the math and offered him
a time to talk after his work was done which would have taken about a
minute or two. He called me "an idiot" among other things. His
engine was running a bit high and I asked him to go under the table with
his pillows - a comforting place for him - or to put his head down -
another calming action for him. He told me he was going to tell you
that I didn't care, etc and that I would be in big trouble with you. He
said you would "take me out". I ignored all this and suggested again
that he go under the table or put his head down. After a few minutes of
Vince continuing to vent anger at me, he finally went under the table
with his pillows. After about 7 minutes he was calm. After he
apolgized, we talked about his sadness for about 7 minutes. He ended
the discussion - I didn't. I told him I was sorry if he felt that he
wasn't being heard - we shook hands and went back to work. He was just
fine and continued to be fine through the end of the day.

Regarding the hugging: Vince is having some difficulties learning about
appropriate touching. He likes to stroke Mrs. XXX hair, her arm, etc.
We are trying to teach Vince about boundaries and appropriateness so
that he will be continue to be an appropriate, respectful male. I do
not recall him asking me for a hug so I can't speak to that issue, but
I did support Vince's sadness in other ways. I gave Vince attention,
sympathy, empathy and caring. I gave him a safe, private place to voice
his feelings. I also helped him set boundaries and to learn about
appropriateness in public settings. He was emotionally supported during
his difficulties. The entire team of people that work with Vince care
about him and show him that daily. However, we must also teach Vince
self-calming strategies which is what I was trying to do when I asked
him to go under the table with his pillows or to put his head down.

I'm glad you wanted clarification on this. I agree that no one should
walk away feeling that they are not cared about, but I also believe that
we did all we could to let Vince know that we do care. Caring is letting
a child know he/she is important to you and it is also helping a child
set boundaries. He did tell me he was going to tell you all about how
awful I am so you could harm me, but then he apologized and said that it
was great to be able to talk to me.

And to further clarify, the pillows and going under the table are
techniques that were used last year. This technique had very positive
results last year as did putting his head down. It is not a punishment,
but rather an opportunity for Vince to regain self-control and dignity.


I hope this answers your questions and concerns. I do not for a minute
question Vincent's sincerity and honesty - I think that when his engine
is running high, his perceptions are not always accurate as they are
charged with emotions. If there is anything you know of that is making
him sad (it doesn't seem to be school based - it seems to be focused on
death), please let us know so together we can help him deal with his
feelings. I hope we continue to earn your support for our work with
Vincent and that we can work together in his behalf.

I would be worried about the physical aspect of having him go under the table. Sounds pretty unusual, and especially that it was a punishment for expressing emotion. Is it a time out spot or what?

So, I'm thinking ok, now I see a different picture, a different perception. So, I wrote this:

I'd like to walk Vince into school tomorrow so he can share his perceptions with you, and visa versa. I can see only potential disaster for him to try and complete his school day other wise. I'll be there only so he feels supported, as well as to support staff so he doesn't become disrespectful, and to help him to be quiet and hear your perspective.

After that, if you or I feel we need to talk without Vincent present, we can go from there and arrange a good time. Could you please print and bring the email I sent to you, so you can address the things Vince said with him in case he forgets to mention an issue, so we can be done with it and not have any forgotten issues resurfacing throughout his day. Also, please bring (so you don't forget) the inappropriate things he did and said that he really should have control over.

I hope all of that sounds reasonable. My goal always is a mutually clear perception, and the ability to work together to get Vince to where he needs to be. I'm not a bit interested in finger pointing or blame, which serves nothing productive for Vince.

Part of this situation seems to be Vince attempting to play on adult against another. So, while I understand that is a part of development, and understand and am pleased he is developing, calling you names and threatening that I will harm you or 'take you out' is completely out of the realm of acceptable.

As for his 'death' questions, I would guess that is due to our wonderful dog of over 15 years doing so poorly, and me preping the kids as I know she won't be around much longer - should her new meds not work, she might have a week. She's had a good and long life, there's nothing sad about her death, the sadness is in her current pain and lack of quality of life.

(my name)

You know, just on the surface I'd have some concerns about what she wrote. And understanding that I am only goig by what you have said and what she has written and no more understanding of Vince or how things have unfolded.

1) If Vince was threatening to tell his mom so that she can 'take the teacher out', was crying, depressed and acting up etc why on earth did she not write to you, or better yet pick up the phone and talk to you rather than leave it to Vince to relay his version of events first? Lets assume for whatever reason Vince had not chosen to let you know what had transpired, and she had not informed you then you would be none the wise today and dont you rely on the other professional adults in his life to keep you up to date with what is going on for Vince each day (Hazel used to have a 'day' book were the teachers wrote a paragraph or two every afternoon so I knew what went on. I wrote a paragraph or two back for each morning. If you had something like this then she would know about your ill dog also)

2) "We are trying to teach Vince about boundaries and appropriateness so
that he will be continue to be an appropriate, respectful male."

This bugs me, why could she not say appropriate respectfull adult? The way it is phrased seems to imply and infer more than is being said. I dunno, maybe I am not being articulate enough. But it annoyed me

3) and last of all its the slightly patronising tone - "Caring is letting
a child know he/she is important to you and it is also helping a child
set boundaries. " - excuse me but I am an adult. I dont need a dictionary definintion of what caring is.

4) If lying on the floor with pillows is a time out thing, which in itself isnt a big issue for me, but why do you not already know this strategy? You shoudl have a list of options and techniques that the teacher uses. Particularly for when he is depressed, and acting up.

If it were me, I would feel very out of the loop. I would feel like what else dont I know? Am I waiting for Vince to tell me everything? Whats in his IEP?

This woman may be just fine, despite her patronising tone. You definately need to be involved in what she is doing though.

Sorry to hear about your dog btw
Peta

Peta,
I totally agree with #1, this is something she and I are going to have to work out. I used to get a communication notebook...but so help me they would write stuff I could care less about, and not stuff I needed to hear. It sort of started as more of a notebook about what he ate that day, then, when I complained I wasn't being informed enough turned into a book that sort of tattled on Vince.

#2, yes that was worded in a way that gives one of those 'read between the lines' encoded messages, I have to figure that one out. It was worded oddly, yes, but it was telling (I just don't know what it's telling me yet).

I love how you put #3, hee hee. From what little time I've spent with her, her idea of empathy does feel a bit like keeping warm with an ice cube. I still have to get to know her better, and hope I'm wrong. She seems highly defensive in person, so that might explain the ice cube feeling...but being highly defensive is not productive, but maybe she has to get to know me??? I dunno yet.

Number 4...I forgot about his 'spot' under the table with books and pillows. Just that alone, made me feel better...I didn't realize he'd still have it this year, I thought it was just any old table they told him to go under like he was a bad dog or something.

We had a communication notebook. Last year though we didn't start one, and I didn't ask. I was glad we didn't seem to need it, glad I didn't have the knot in my stomach before reading it, and glad I didn't have to write my little essay every night. I honestly sort of attempted to take a break from IEP-land and autism last year since his behavior was better overall. I was so glad not to be getting calls from school almost daily, I reached a point where I was glad for the break and didn't care that I wasn't involved and didn't care that I shouldn't 'take a break' from being his mom. I wanted to be involved in the good news, but was sick of hearing the bad which was always in abundance. I really do feel I've had continual trouble getting the scoop on how his day is...the FULL scoop. God help me, last year they stopped communicating and I stopped asking. He was with folks that he'd been with for years, so I was like 'whew' and basically stopped (continually) being involved and was only involved on a need to be basis. So, that much I have to admit. When he was at school, I often felt like "your problem!". I feel like I now get the bad mother of the year award, but it's like alls I do is fight and fight. I'm sick of it. Cause too often, it's with folks that don't share my philosophy, so it's a no win situation. Last year though, he was with people that were great, and I was only to happy to be in the dark and let them 'deal' with him. That's how it felt at the time anyhow. But, with a new case manager, I guess I have to get up and running again. I really did feel in the dark even when I was highly involved. But, now with some RDI under my belt, I feel much more sure of what he needs, so I can be more involved. Hopefully, we can all work together (the new case manager and I). I don't like her, I don't have to, and maybe that first impression will change, but if she can do well by my child she will have my cooperation, support and respect and thanks. Ya know? I didn't like the teacher my daughter had for 3 stinkin years, but Carmen did and did well with her so that was plenty good enough for me.

Well, anyhow, I'll have to see how tomorrow goes. BTW, I asked her to print the stuff out cause my printer is broken...actually the cable has dissappeared. And I don't eeeeeeeeeeven have to ask who took it. Hmph.

Oh and thanks for words about the dog. What can I say? It's her time. It sucks, I could go on and on about all the negatives...but it's her time. If she can't have a quality life, I want her to have a quick and peaceful death. I'm prepared, the kids are prepared. There'll be tears, but there are so many memories and positives to think about. She wasn't hit by a car or poisoned or lost never to be found, she's dying of old age. I can't imagine being without her after so long. She's been the best most loyal devoted friend I ever had. I hope she can either live the life she would want, or have the ending she would want. She will not die shivering in fear at the vet's office. I couldn't stand her going out like that. Anyhow, that's not on the table until I talk to the vet again tomorrow, to see if her new meds should be working yet, or if she should start the last (of three) meds.

Well, Vince now understands what she actually said, the teacher understands how he perceived her words and apologized to him and seemed to want him to cry away from the other kids so he'd retain his dignity. But, she and I still have to talk. I'm totally gutted and how far he is behind academically, and see no reason for it that I'm aware of. He can learn this stuff!

A bigger problem I see, is he just has this "I don't have to listen to you" attitude. The other night, after his dad got smacked by a flying rake (Vince threw way up high into the air to watch it spin) I tried to explain for the 800 zillionth time, why throwing can be dangerous. Like, I know he knows so much of what he does, is not ok to do...but does it anyway. I'm always questioning my parenting, his autism, what's impulsivity that can't be controlled and what's autism and what's just a boy who don't want to listen.

So, I said to him, "Ya know Vince, sometimes I just get the feeling that you're thinking '***** you mom and ***** you dad, I'm going to do what I want and I don't care what you want" and without hesitation he said, "well yeah, that's true". :eek: :eek: :eek: :mad: :mad:

So you mean to tell me all this patience and explaining that exhaust me to tears have been for a child that already GOT IT. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! He's lucky he had a meeting this morning, or I might have took HIM out. Oh, and as for his comment to the teacher about me 'taking her out', he thought that meant getting fired, that I'd get her fired.

So, I am now officially in my 'what have I created' phase of parenting. To be honest I'm scared to death of him walking around with a huge chip on his shoulder, like I had growing up, feeling like everyone had a friend but me, everyone had love but me, etc etc...and in my eyes it was true - actually it was true. And I really had no accoutablility...that is I had accountablility for the teeny things I beat myself up over, but not really for the big things. I always found reasons why I 'had to' do this or that. I dunno. I just felt like the whole world was against me, and not occasionally, it was a way of life for me and I have always tried to explain and explain and explain till I'm blue in the face, cause I fear he will feel the PAIN of his autism, know what I mean? I mean basically I'm doing what all parents do, trying to not do the stuff my ma did that was harmful, and give him a good childhood.

But, am I doing that? Am I giving him less by giving him so much 'fairness', would I be giving him more by having HIM give to others and receive less, or would that just turn him into a bitter resentful young adult like I'd felt. It is quite a trauma growing up for everyone, growing up on the spectrum with no dx and no help....able to memorize enough to stay off the shrink radar (well till I got institutionalized) might have been worse that if I were less functional so would have gotten help. Although, what help? They really don't even have a whole lot now.

Anyhow, just rambling. Trying to sort out probably the very same things we all do. Am I creating a monster or someone with empathy towards others? Is his continual doing as he pleases an autistic thing, or is he just a spoiled brat and autistic too?

He needs to shut up and assume his 'rank' as a child, and learn while he is at school. He seems unable, to 'allow' adults to be adults and himself to be the child.

I can't wait till the RDI consultant comes. I hope she doesn't decide not to. Should be this weekend or next.

I'm officially feeling poopy.
MiliSh!t

I like the teachers reply, every bit of it. The thing under the desk sounds very reasonable and makes a lot of sense in the right context. The fact that she said appropriate male vs. adult is very good as well. He is not an adult, and is not expected to act like on. he is a male and there are different expectations in a males behavior (boundraries) then in a females. So, itsall good to me.

I do think that maybe (don't kill me, or have me killed):o that you could be creating a monster. (Am I agreeing with you?) I have clients who do this sort of behavior, they know they will get a staff member to stick up for them when they tell them what happened.. but they leave out little details that change the entire situation. They use this to split staff and get what they want. I also know a lot of aspergers kids who do the same thing. I think its the result of us trying so hard to protect them and advocate for them.

I think by going to the class you will be feeding into Vinces illusion of how the world is. I say this not just for the teachers sake; who will be walking around your child like bare feet on eggshell not to upset you. You and he will also suffer for it long after this teacher is gone.

If Vince sees that he can control/create/alter a situation he will do the same too you, and ... thats just an awful place for him to be.

Whether he is doing it intentionally, by luck or coincidence its all the same in the end. At some point he will know that this behavior gets people to react.

And yes, you can be spoiled, autistic and a brat. I think the brat takes a little longer to develop in our kids.

Hmmmm....
 

Oh, Mili, I feel for you, I really do! We have a new teacher this year and I'm pretty much doing the "walking on eggshells" whenever I have to write in our communication notebook. Heaven forbid that I suggest something that sounds too complicated or too obvious when they present me with a question, but c'mon, his teaching team (except for the teacher) is the same group of folks he had last year! Don't they remember things from year to year? I sure do!!! (after all, I am the perfect Mom) :rolleyes:

Get that notebook going again, even if you just say "thanks for the update" when the book comes home every night. I know that some afternoons I really dread opening up the book to see what Andrew got himself into that day, but it helps everyone to have the communication always going.

Hey, Temple Grandin says that anyone can be a brat, and that just having autism is NO EXCUSE for not having good manners! So shape up, or I'll have to take you out!! :eek: [Why am I having visions of a slap fest on BRAINTALK? Mudwrestling?] :eek:

Cheer up, we all have these miserable moments, it is just that moms of spectrum kids get to share them with their friends! :o

Weeeeeeell, I lost it today.

I started balling, told him I guessed I failed as his mother, and he needs to have a mom that knows how to get him to follow rules or he'll wind up in jail. Maybe he needs a school he can live at, that won't care how he feels or put up with any of his *****. He chooses not to follow rules, and I seem unable to get him to decide to follow them. After thinking and rethinking his admission, that when he breaks rules it's cause he's thinking "***** you mom, I don't have to do what you want, I'm gonna do what I want" I'm numb. Over a period of 3 hours, I've consumed one and a half beers, so aparantly can't even get drunk right. I've felt so strong and positive with the introduction to RDI, but RDI won't change the parent I am I guess...and I'd be a better parent if I knew how. I had a mom that didn't hug, say I love you, protect me what so ever, and finally stuck me in an asylum which was totally unfair cause I'd do anything for an ounce of love from her, anything. I have to wonder, am I repeating the same cycle with my son? Cause I've been killing myself trying to get him to 'get it'. I have no problem believing his bratty or dark side - but I have a problem seeing it, knowing what I'm seeing, and aparantly even Vince my autistic son can pull it over my eyes when it comes to manipulation and ulterior motives.

I am unequipt to do the ulterior motive thing. It's just not in me to do or to see others do (mostly, I have lucky times sometimes).

Anyhow, I'm low. Not the kind of low that won't get better, I know it'll get better...but I'm just more than anything in shock. I really thought, all he did that drove me nuts, which is CONSTANT was accidental so I tried, I really did, to be understanding and loving. If there was a residential school he could go to, I'd pack his bags tonight. I'm not blind to his bad side by being is mother...and I've seen mother's like that. I'm blind to so much as an aspie, I usually have no qualms with my neurology now as an adult, but man, I feel as incompetent as a zitty skinny flat chested frizzy haired high school kid. I'm just kind of numb really. Like, well what do I do now? Cause honestly, I'm frickin tired. Ya know?

Oh, and Keg, I wasn't competely sure what you were saying...I can say anytime I go to school, Vince hates it cause I expect much more from him that school does. I figured once he stopped wanting me at school and was like, "please don't come" I must have turned some corner in the right direction. Anyhow, I just wasn't completely sure about all you said. I'm too whipped to read it again....

Hey, that's a good word. I feel just whipped, broken, like a stinking beaten horse.

HOW DO I STOP CARING ABOUT HIM, AND START CARING ABOUT THE OTHER THREE PEOPLE IN THIS FAMILY????????????? I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO THAT????????? IS THAT WHAT I'M DOING WRONG?????????? I mean, no one has to actually answer that. I'm just glad, blessed, lucky, so happy to have you all to post to here. Who else would I even talk to without you guys?

Thanks for listening,
Love,
Mili

HUGE HUGS MILI

It is not easy to be a MOM for a special child.

Hold yourself somehow together, try to rest on it, take breaks in your room, close the door, it helps your sanity.

Think about this other aspect of the situation that is not talk about. I observed while my boy was on Risperdal and worse off Risperdal that he needed food almost every 1 hour and a half otherwise he would have an episode of aggression or self-injurious behaviour.

In Vince's case looks like his thoughts become dark and testy. His assistant should observed the time when he become "depressed" talking about death, start to utter threatening words, becomes aggressive, etc.

For my Danny we place small plates of food at 1 hour and half because by 2 hours it was too late. A little drink, fruits, some nuts, milkshakes (do you have Ensure?), crackers/bread (in those times I was not aware of diets like GF/CF) with PB or Nutella, snacks that we knew he loved and then he would go on smiling. All that besides his 3 meals. He was/is very skinny like your boy, perhaps he has a fast metabolism and needs to eat more often.

Risperdal affects (changes or damages) the way the the body metabolise foods/drugs in general, specifically causing in some cases hyperglycemia, the way to diabetes. On and after Risperdal my son was diagnosed with it.

So do research "drug-induced hyperglycemia" or "Risperdal hyperglycemia". I think I spell it right.

Again <<<<HUGE HUGS>>>>>

I wish I had more than a few seconds to post you. Mil, you have to stop thinking that you can be the perfect mom that your mother was not.
None of us are perfect, all our kids will grow up with their issues. You must get that illusion out of your head, and just be the best mom you can be to both of your kids.
Of course this is a bias opinion, but I think you should see a psychotherapist to help you, with your issues. You are a pretty cool person... and yet you seem to forget that... why is that so?

Isabelle, he'll be off the risperdal soon enough (finally). Eating more frequently isn't a bad idea at all. I think they do feed him a lot at school, he gets at least 2 snacks plus lunch. I send these packaged oats for snacks and some other stuff that is pretty good for ya.

Keg, I don't think I need a therapist as much as I need to see examples of how to manage a spirited kid. I need an old woman from the south that raised 7 boys to whip me into shape, so I can whip him into shape. Having no ma or sisters or cousins or whatnot to raise kids with or talk to about it, having no on else involved in your household to butt in once in a while and get me to thinking...it's not the best way to find better ways to parent. Plus, I tend to think he and I are so so alike, and although we are in some ways, we couldn't be more opposite in others. It's going to be a shock for some time, that I have been running myself ragged for a child who consciencely KNEW what he should and should not do and consciencely DID NOT CARE what I wanted. I thought it was impulse issues, blah blah blah.

Plus, I have to admit seeing my darling dog so sick...I have to carry her everywhere. Poop just falls out. She's emaciated now. I feed her constantly and chicken and beef - not even dog food, and still she loses weight. I'd have put her down already, but her CBC showed all her organs are functioning just fine, and her xray showed something in the discs of her spine that is inflamed...she's on antibiotics. If she has an infection in her spine as they think, I want to give her every chance. I'll know in 6 days, when we try the last med. This one isn't working. Also, she's holding down her pain med thank God. So, it's sort of a combination of things...mind you as much as I'll grieve missing my dog when the time comes, seeing her like this is what's killing me.

And don't worry, I do think I'm cool...I'm always willing and open to try to learn, and improve and develop as a parent, wife, person. I think that's cool. Also, I don't have a mean bone in my body unless my feelings get real hurt or I have pms. I lack feelings of competence, yes, that goes along with the aspergers territory. But I do think I'm a good person even if a lot of my actions are butt backwards. I'd just like to have a good old fashioned 'big mama' in my life, to help me raise my kids by helping me get my feet more firmly planted. It's great to want to learn and improve, but I don't want to be flighty either. Ya know? Mostly, I feel like I want a practice run with Vince, so I can rewind and raise him again with hindsight...but who doesn't.

Mili, my beloved dog Jessie slowly lost the use of her hind legs after a rabies shot supposedly to protect her for 3 years. Right after the vaccine my dd noticed that she was burning and having kind of convulsions, at the time we thought she was having nightmares of running and eyes flicking inside her head. She got her a doggie wheelchair that she loved but when my son came home I couldn't care for two demanding beings, so after 6 months of taking care of both I had to put her down and she knew, she sensed, she trusted me so much and that made me cry forever, still writing this I am crying. So, I feel for you.

How aweful for your dog and your family!

CoCo has had xrays to show what's going on is in her discs in her lower spine, but we don't know if the inflamation is due to infection. If so, antibiotics (there are three choices, she'll be on her last choice starting tomorrow) will help her. If not, it would require surgery, and besides the expense no way am I going to a dog specialist to put her through all that when she's already reached her life expectancy (standard poodle, she's over 15). If this is due to age, and not infection, then I'll put her down. I don't feel anything about the idea of putting her down, it doesn't seem real to be honest. Seeing her as she is now, the way she looks at me so for lorn, that's the hard part. Poor girl. I've lost dogs to careless vets and so on, if she dies of old age, I won't be sad about it. I'll miss her, I'll grieve, but not like I did when I lost my first dog (I got him one day before her) who was her pal. Long story short, he was only 2, the vet screwed up.

I have so many pets and critters, I have a lot of death as well as life around here. Then again, as accepting as I feel that it's her time, I don't think it will hit me until she's not here anymore...fine with me. Who needs the extra grief.

Anyhow, for now, she's being spoiled with meat dinners every night, we can't leave plates around anymore....all the things I trained her not to do, and she never did, have been reversed in only a few weeks of spoiling. And that's just fine with me of course. Dh says if she gets any more spoiled, he's going to have to start peeing in every corner of the house so she'll know it's not hers, hee hee.

If she were still 'herself', cheerful, excitable, unable to resist a tennis ball, I'd be the first to get her a wheelie thing. She's just not the same dog anymore. Well, we'll see how the new and last antiobiotics work.

CoCo on her last and new antibiotics today. Still needs to be carried. Moved all the furniture so she can walk around it - she can't go backwards. Still carrying her up and down stairs. She bumps into everything, I'm hoping that's the pain killer taking the edge off. In about three days, if this is an infection, we'll know, and this should work...then she'll have to be on in probably forever as some dogs do. After one pill, she seemed a little better. Maybe I'm seeing what I want to see cause they don't work that quick. We'll see.

The vet said if worse came to worse, she could euthanize her in the car. CoCo loves car rides best...and still does but now cant balance to sit on the seat too well. I'll ask for boku valium or something to give her for the ride, so she'll feel like calm and tranquil, I don't want her to go out, let alone go out in a hard way.

Anyhow, I'll know in a few days.

I finished my kitchen floor yesterday...layed the whole thing in one day while the kids were at school - Ya hoo!

Now I really have to paint the cabinets, wow, they look gross.

Mili

It is! My NT children were devastated. We used to have many cats, all females and the only male, named Coco, a huge all black cat stayed with us for 14 years before dying of a stroke on my dd's lap even my husband cried.

Animals have an impact of us pet lovers.