just venting about medical system
 

Just needed to vent...

I live in Canada the land of "free healthcare" unless you die first. This week I was called and given an appointment for my cervical MRI...(I paid out of pocket for this back in December after waiting since august without hearing about an appointment.) Appointment date? December 2017.

I have been told I don't have MS because I had a clear brain and cervical MRI. I trust this info. But this obviously hasn't been communicated to all the medical professionals dealing with my case otherwise they would know I have already had a cervical MRI. What if I did have MS? I am supposed to go 3 years without a diagnosis and treatment?

I just received a called telling me my appointment with the movement disorder neurologist (to discuss my involuntary movements) will be June 2017.

These appointments are over two years away!

Canagirl
Wow that's incredible! - and I thought our public health system was bad - 6 mths to see a neuro + I paid for my own blood tests because I couldn't get the doc. to order them.

Does your health system have a priority appt. process? Here (NZ) they triage your referral and decide if you are 'urgent', 'semi-urgent', 'non urgent' or 'elective' - appt. dates are made depending on this assessment and there are rules they have to follow (ie: semi-urgent have to be seen within 4 mths of being triaged - problem is there is no rule to say how long they can take to triage the referral - mine was only done the week after I rang them when I had heard nothing for 2 mths. If you're deemed 'elective' you can end up on a waiting list and then sometimes they just cull the waiting lists - usually because the govt. cuts funding - and you get bumped back and told to 'see your GP if your problem still exists' and you have to start all over again!

Maybe they did know you'd already had your MRI and that's why you got a long wait time (Mind you that would be crediting them with having the intelligence to figure it out!).
Have you considered e-mailing an organization like the national MS foundation and asking them if they're aware of delays for assessment in your area, and if this is what they'd typically expect for someone undergoing an MS assessment. I realize you're cleared of having MS but they'd be probably be interested to know what's happening out 'in the trenches' so to speak.

Hang in there Canagirl - happy to exchange PHS (Public Health System) rants anytime. Some day I may tell you about my last appt. - with a head of dept. that "doesn't do computers".

Vent away!! That's ridiculous!

Forbes ranks Canada right above the US in healthcare...and the US came in dead last for the dozen countries in comparison. But I have never waited that long for an appointment. Many specialists have waiting lists 9-12 months long here, but more often than not, I can get into a Hopkins specialist within a couple/few months (all depending on specialty) for a new patient appointment...much faster for follow up appt. of course, since already in that doctor's system.

I think I would have laughed at them had I received a call like that, as it must be a joke.:wink:

My experience the U.S. is that I often have to wait several weeks/months for an appointment with a specialist, but scheduling a test is never more than two weeks or so.

My neuro is highly rated in Baltimore, and I had to wait 6 months to get in to see him for the first time. When I decided to cancel one later appointment with him as I wanted to give something I was doing more time, the earliest I could get in was 8 months later.

That being said, what you're dealing with IS insane. I assume if you went private, you could get in sooner?

That being said, what you're dealing with IS insane. I assume if you went private, you could get in sooner?[/QUOTE]

You can only do private for certain things.
MRI's can be done privately. When I did my cervical MRI, I called to make an appointment and got in the next day.

I can't see a movement neuro privately. We only have a handful of them that work out of the university and they don't work privately.

In my city (and it's a large Canadian city) there are only 3 neuro's (not specialty neuro's just regular ones) that even work privately. One of them is my neuro (works both privately and in the public system). I saw him through the public system because he denied seeing me privately (I don't know why). If he accepted me as a private patient I could have gotten an appointment with him within a week. Public system I waited 6 months (and only got in b/c my doctor kept calling in)

Im in Australia and I had to wait 3 years to see a neuro in North Queensland. We have categories based one symptoms. (there are 1,2,3 and emergency) I wa ranked 2. Also had a neuro quit and took while to get replacement. Public waiting lists over here are ridiculous!! But even if you pay for Private Health Insurance, they usually still make you pay. At least public is FREE. (we have medicare and pay a sum out of our tax each yr for this free medical system)
Its fine if you live in one of our big cities, but if you live regionally you are screwed mostly!! (though now QLD health, Queenslands healthcare system, as each state is different, have tried to improve that by providing flights to nearest specialists for approved patients) I had to wait 4 months for my brain MRI though.
But you win with 2 years. Thats INSANE!! Dont think will ever whinge bout our system again hahaha.
Hope you can find a way to have it done sooner!!

Welcome rhisurg. :Wave-Hello:

I had no idea, countries with free health care outside of usa, were terrible, yearly wait. It is expected if you are on a free healthcare system. So paying for healthcare "universally" would be a good way to offset some of the cost that comes with free healthcare. Most private healthcare within the usa, or HMO groups can setup appt within a 1week to a few weeks.(probably the lack of people going to a medical facility). When i was under a family plan for an HMO, everytime i go into a medical facility(not a hospital) the building is almost always very quiet and somewhat empty.
I guess thats why usa is very resistant to having "free health care", the waiting periods and the public cost is astounding. Since we already already taxed on keeping prisoners in our countries alive(we pay for thier education, medical care, cable, food), this also goes for military personel as well. Thats why the USA healthcare system is very poor and extremely expensive, while the quality of care is superior than other countries. The way you get charged for using any treatment, medical devices, and acquire any medicines cost alot. Using an mri once (for kaiser) cost about 4000$. We do have "government welfare, healthcare which i am under, and i though months waiting period was suprising, though most appointment usually comes by fast. because in our country people have this "thinking" that walking it off, or it will go away or show no weakness, so they never seek healthcare treatment and it frees up space.
My parents had to pay about 800$ a month just to have the family plan, with dental(50%). You would think having better technology would lower the cost, but it actually helps the manufacturers profit from it, because they can raise the cost of the product.

Neuroproblem,

The NHS waiting time from referral to Consultant target is 18 weeks (not ALWAYS met). Treatment and tests start from there, and are based on urgency of individual cases. When I had rectal cancer in 2013 my referral, dx, treatment (3 months) took 5 months total with MRIs, CT scans and countless blood tests. The bill to me for saving my life £0. And I still have 3 monthly check-ups with my Oncologist for the next 5 years.

Do not think that our NHS is 'Free', we all pay a percentage of salary in National Insurance Contributions and taxes, and the vast majority would pay more to have the NHS remain as it is. Each Trust can also raise funds itself by selling Private Care to those that want it in certain circumstances, and the money is reinvested.

I would measure our treatments against yours across the board, and they are available to everyone. A couple with a chronically sick child does not end up with a bill of $50-60 thousand here, running and interpreting an MRI costs about $800-&1000, $4000 is licenced theft. Prescriptions cost $12 per item, no matter the cost of the medication. If you have low wages, or are on Benefits, they are free. When you rely on a LOT of meds (like me) you can pay $160 a year for unlimited prescriptions. I get mine free because I have fall-out from my cancer treatment.

I will wager my pain management is more thorough than any in the States with Government intervention. I see my PM team every 6 months for a review, my Infusion Consultant the same. I am on Tramadol and Arcoxia for musculoskeletal/arthritic pain, Lidocaine Infusions, Oral Ketamine and Morphine for severe Neurological pain. I have access to Group and Individual Counselling (declined - bad experiences) and Acupuncture.

We may have to wait 4-6 hours in Hospital for Accident and Emergency, but the majority of that is due to abuse/time wasters. How long do you have to wait, and do you check your wallet to see if you can afford to be seen?

Even from initial daily contact with my GP, if you phone on the day you are ill they will do their best to see you. If no appts are available, my GP has a Sit and Wait clinic and a Duty Doctor who will phone you and give you a dx/advice that way, or arrange an emergency appt.

How would you rather live?

Dave.

i MENTIONED in my post "free healthcare" is payed by taxes. i know that NHS has horrible service, and its expected of a welfare system. I was just comparing how countries view healthcare. I was comparing the level of quality for private and public, and already stated in my previous post. A phone appt is common even in private insurance, when i had constant diarrhea a few years back i had a phone consultation with a doctor, instead of actually going there. Most private insurance or HMO groups have an email system, where you get to directly email a doctor or specialist to tell them of symptoms of a condition, and if the doctor feels that your symptoms warrant a appt, they will give. If you are an government health plan, expect to wait months, which i did for my appointments. In private insurance, you can practically see them the next week, or the next few days. specialists are the same thing. 4000$ USD for MRI is not unheard of, i heard of most cost 1l-4k in us dollars. It is because there are different kinds of MRI, some have stronger MRI imaging, they measure strength in terms of tesla 1-3 teslas, 3 being the best and most expensive MRI. I had a bill for 4000$ for MRI, when i was under family insurance.
My previous post stated the difference in cost between countries.
the cost of healthcare comes from the manufacturer of the supplies and the hospital itself, they can charge whatever they want, and heard many people go into debt because of medical bills. insurance wants you to pay monthly preniums, but they dont really want you to use the coverage, because they want the paying healthy customers to offset the chronically ill customers(cancer,diabetes, autoimmune diseases,,,etc)

How long do you have to wait, and do you check your wallet to see if you can afford to be seen?
It depends how much people are waiting at a hospital and what kind of emergencies are there, and there are abusers and time wasters here to. If you are under a government health plan that gurantees no cost to you, you will not pay. its people who are not (homeless) that dont have insurance or welfare, and goes to the hospital, then the hospital can charge you for the services.
even if you have insurance here in the states, the type of medical facility you can go to is determined by the policy of your insurance.

I can go anywhere.

I have NEVER heard of any US doctor office making appointments based upon what insurance you have...and making Gov't health plan wait longer. I have Medicare and don't wait any longer for an appointment then someone with private insurance. Something tells me this practice wouldn't even be legal (discrimination).

I think that some doctors limit the number of Medicade patients they see, so in that case one might wait longer, but I don't think it's the way you described above.

Hi Neuroproblem,

I do not wish to seem to disagree on the Forums, but I must ask where you get your information from? You state that "the NHS has horrible service". We have JUST had a General Election here where the Care/Protection of the NHS was a major Policy. Millions of us voted for those we think will best protect this great Institution. Would we bother to fight, would our Politicians campaign, if it was "Horrible"?

Your Quote:
even if you have insurance here in the states, the type of medical facility you can go to is determined by the policy of your insurance.
Quote.

What a terrible way to live, I have seen this portrayed on tv - No Insurance/Wrong Insurance, ship them out asap.

Here, I can go to ANY NHS Hospital in the Country for emergency and continuous care, then be transferred to an Hospital near my home if condition and space allow. If I, or my GP, chooses I can be referred to ANY Consultant or Clinic from Land's End to John O'Groat's. If I am away on holiday (I wish) and have a non-emergency illness, I can access a local GP.

There is also the non-emergency NHS111 phone number, where you can access a Nurse Practitioner on callback within a few hours. They can give advice, diagnose, accelerate the call to a Doctor, alert a Paramedic/Ambulance (also free on the NHS). This is available 24/7, 365 days a year.

Many Private Hospitals/Clinics now bid to perform NHS treatments. I have this with my Lidocaine Infusions, a local Private Hospital carries out the procedure under the NHS, freeing up money, space and personnel for other things. Would the Private Sector bother trying to outbid Inhouse Clinics if the NHS was bad?

Further, because of the NHS, and reciprocal agreements, if I am travelling in the European Union and become ill or have an accident I can use local Healthcare as I use the NHS.

You say that those on Welfare are entitled to free care (at selected Hospitals and Clinics), well that means Tax dollars are already being spent on Healthcare. From the figures I have seen on the Forums of Member's Insurance Premiums and Prescription Costs, I can guarantee the NHS costs less per head than your system. And Service/Treatments are on a par - if not better, my Local Politician doesn't tell me what I can take for my severely painful conditions. The two BEST Oncology Centres in the Country, Liverpool and Castle Hill, are NHS. I was lucky enough to have my ongoing treatment and checkups at Castle Hill.

You say you access Welfare Healthcare, so you have to wait? Here, you would be treated equally if you were a millionaire using the NHS. It is not about status or money, it is about need and being human.

From Psychiatry to Podiatry the NHS looks after all equally. Sure, there are failures (but Neuros are all over the World), and there is waste. There are treatments I would not provide and charges I would levy. There is a drive for fewer Managers and more Consultants/Doctors in charge of everything - I would increase this and accelerate the process. I do not think an 18 week wait for a Consultant appt is excessive. Of course, Cancers and the like are MUCH quicker, and emergencies are near instantaneous.

What would YOU expect from the NHS?

Dave

Kitt and en bloc,

Thanks for that, I have to compose externally and copy/paste across.

I always thought this portrayal heartless, and done for effect. Stabilize the emergency patient, then ship them to another Hospital!

I would still much rather live with my NHS, it has saved my life, physically and mentally, more than once - we have a Bond.

Dave.

Dave and others
Couldn't agree more about the benefits of public health system. Having lived under both the US and NZ health systems (also sampled UK & Aust.) I've experienced the differences first-hand. In terms of quality of care - in most situations there is little difference between the two systems. In terms of cost to patient the public system wins hands down - the costs are shared by the whole population. Private unaffordable medical access just adds to misery and restricts patient care for low income. The major difference seems to be in timely access for non-urgent treatment.

As a brief example of the cost difference - 1990's in California, a co-worker had a hand injury - 4 stitches $400.00 US. A few years later back in NZ I had a very similar injury - 6 stitches $16.00 NZ (under our Accident Compensation scheme this was my co-pay). I was frequently told part of the high medical costs in the US is due to legal liability insurance which is part of all medical billing. This additional expense is not a major portion of health costs under public systems.

…And then this evening we have this in Newsbot's stories:

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread220119.html

Theft from employees/employers by Medical Insurers. Where there is one…

Dave.

Just for giggles, I'll mention the state of my medical insurance here.

Monthly premium: $296
Annual Deductible: $5500 :eek:

For my $3600 a year, I get an annual physical with blood work and an annual gyn visit with mammo and pap smear. Oh, and of course I'm also charged less by docs because I come in with insurance.

Beyond that, I have to pay $5500 out of pocket before my insurance will start covering anything.

Janieg,

Come join us - it is so much easier over here:)

Dave.

Yes thats how insurance in the states are managed, and these is one of the main problem with our system. before i turned 26, i was under my family insurance plan with an HMO(health management organization, with a group called Kaiser), Basically they only allow you to see doctors that are from kaiser, hospitals,medicines are only from kaiser and not out of network doctors, let say from another insurance group.
Then there are some insurance in our country, depending on what region you are in. The insurance may or may not cover some procedures,medication, treatment, hospital visits, or they only cover part of it. It depends how much preniums you are paying.
Some services i heard were very poor the: the insurance drops your network doctors, or other services and they never tell you.
Without insurance, unless you are under a government plan or homeless, you are stuck with whatever bill the hospital charges you with.
a few years ago i read a magazine, TIME, on the cost of using private hosptial equipment, Using a few gauzes, or having an interpreting read you a result will cost you several hundred dollars alone.
Furthermore, most people wont seek medical care, because its too expensive or it makes them look weak, when they do get sick they end up paying alot because thier disease or symptom have become chronic or an emergency. The wait time for government based healthplan is considerabally long. I havnt looked at MEDICARE system, but i thought it was an insurance based format.

Insurance here in the states like thier system: have alot of healthy young people who are not chronically ill, or go to the doctors frequently, while paying thier preniums/deductibles monthly or yearly. This way they have a profit and be able to cover the cost of people who have chronic diseases:cancer, HIV,autoimmune diseases, diabetes, obesity.
Most of our tax money goes to the government, and a large part goes to "defense" as in the military and country security. Taxs dollars practically pays for the healthcare (100%) of the military and you know how big our military is, about more than 1million people are in there, and 10s of thousands ready to join each year.
The cost is the biggest issue for healthcare in the USA. You would think better technologies and techniques would lower a cost, but is exploited for profit instead. Private hospitals can charge alot more than public ones.

Kaiser only represents less then 3% of the population and one of very few (if not the only) plan that requires you to use ONLY their facilities. Many plans (including HMO's) have a list of network providers to chose from in your area, whereas others allow you to see who you want.

English Dave,

This is not a adequate representation of US healthcare. I'm not saying it's great...it has many flaws, but it certainly isn't as neuroproblem portrays for most Americans.

I would definitely say the NHS is more cost effective and less expensive for people overall, but the wait times are far greater then here for services in many cases (according to people posting). But I assume that once you are 'in the system' with a certain doctor, that you can get appts more easily...as it is here.

There are pros & cons to both systems...as there is to everything in life.

Hi en bloc,

Thanks for the real stats - being an ex Quality Manager it's what I like.

I suppose your bias depends on which system you grew up with, but I will give you an example of a minor injury in a rural Hospital setting.

Last Thursday I had a very bad fall, landing with my ribs on my balled-up fist. I thought it was just bruising, but the pain has worsened, sharp and in 2 places. So I am being taken to Minor Injuries at my local town Hospital (small) tomorrow. I will be seen by a Nurse Practitioner within half an hour, examined, x-rayed on-site (if needed) within the hour with immediate results interpreted by Senior Radiologist and Doctor, then treated as appropriate. There is no cost, no Excess.

There ARE things the NHS should charge for - Billing Insurance Companies for attending MVAs, TIMEWASTERS. And certain treatments which should NEVER be provided by a Health Service.

The NHS is so ingrained into our National Psyche when it comes to an emergency, the richest millionaire dials 999 for a Paramedic/Ambulance first before reaching for their Private Healthcare Plan.

Dave.