Reversing Heart Disease w/o Drugs Is Possible
 

I have a difficult time posting links, so bear with me...we are discussing arterial calcification/clogging on another group and want to share some info here, it's valuable as I see it. For the last couple years I've been working with Fibrinogen reduction which is a form of clogging as I understand it all. Nattokinaise is my big helper on this. I've also been upping my Vit C in recent years, most days 2K to 3K complex Vit C from now foods is what I'm taking these days.

Here is what Pauling says:

PaulingTherapy.com - Reversing Heart Disease w/o Drugs is Possible

(If someone wants to post the link, please do, otherwise you can google the above)

Here is another one, hope it opens with no issues:

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co...none-mk-4.html

K2 guards against arterial calcification.

One more, hope it opens:

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co...-coronary.html

The last one here:

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co...itamin-k2.html

Women with the highest K2 intake had the lowest level of coronary calcification.


So from all this what I gather:

So it looks like an MK-4 supplement would be the way to go with arterial calcification. MK-7 would probably help, but has to be converted to MK-4. Just taking MK-4 would be the most direct way to reverse this, in addition to starting the Pauling Therapy.

This K Vit can be confusing, so with a search I found Life Extension Super K with Advanced K2 Complex...believe I'll buy this one with next order I make. You can check it out thru the LEF site. I just bought this from iherb.com for 22.50 free shipping on $20+ orders.



Again, as we all know, one can work on their own, or discuss with doctors. I have faith in myhealth friends who work with all this info. I'm the messanger here only.

Hi Caroline, I am currently using the Life Extension product you mentioned. I like it because it has both MK4 and MK7 in it, and the dosage of MK7 is approximately the same as was used in a 3-year study that showed beneficial effects in bone health for the users. I can’t find a link for this study right now, but I’ll post it when I locate it. Essentially, if I'm remembering correctly, the study concluded that MK7 helps move calcium into your bones and keeps it out of your arteries.

Caroline, just a thought about nattokinase. It is an enzyme, produced by adding the bacterium Bacillus natto to boiled soybeans.

Enzymes are proteins.

All of the comp/alt med sites that I can see sell it in a form to be taken by mouth.

If you are taking it by mouth that is fine - it will not harm you but will not help either.

That is because nattokinase, in just the same way as all of the other proteins in your food, will be broken down into its constituent amino acids by digestive enzymes in your gut. Amino acids can cross the gut wall into your blood - whole proteins can not.

A close analogy: people with Type 1 diabetes need a daily dose of insulin (which is a small protein) to stay alive - they get that dose by injection.

Taking insulin by mouth would be pointless because, (just the same as nattokinase), it would be broken down into its amino acids during digestion. Insulin can not cross the gut wall - that is why people with Type 1 diabetes do not get their insulin in oral form.

Thanks for the analogy with insulin Kiwi, I always wondered why it had to be injected, and now I know. It's amazing what you learn from knowledgeable Friends across this Community.

Dave.

Kiwi, I'm taking Natto caps to reduce Fibrinogen levels which have been elevated as shown in Lipid panels my doc started a few yrs ago. It's working along with extra C, Omega 3's and K2.

Dr. Mercola came thru with this announcement today in his almost daily news I receive from him:

Vitamin K2 Benefits: The Missing Nutrient for Heart and Bone

This not the link but the headline, so maybe someone cares to post link as I have issues often doing them or just google the headline. Thanks.

Good article, Caroline. Here is the link:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...-benefits.aspx

An excerpt:

“Most everyone, including many conventional physicians, have begun to appreciate the importance and value of vitamin D. Few, however, recognize the importance of vitamin K2, which is nearly as important as vitamin D.”

There is so much to learn and new info coming out all the time...most docs just can't keep up even if they want to. A very "famous" integrative MD here in my town lectured at our library on K2 probably 5 yrs ago...he knows so much and he's burned out so now retiring..he will be missed by MANY. I saw him early on my integrative path....there are many other IM's here but he was like a leader.

Thanks for posting the link auntie audrey.....

Re: Dr Mercola.

Members of the NeuroTalk community may care to review the information in these two links about him before deciding what (if any) credence to place on his views:

http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/mercola.html

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org...-natural-news/

For what it is worth, he is very low on my list of people whose opinions I respect.

Caroline, here is the link to the study about MK7 that I mentioned in my first post on this thread.

http://www.nutritionaloutlook.com/150311/VitK

An excerpt:

“The three-year study, published first online in Thrombosis and Haemostasis, included 244 healthy postmenopausal women aged 55-65 years. Subjects were randomly assigned to either 180 mcg of MenaQ7 daily or placebo. Using pulse wave velocity and ultrasound analysis, researchers determined that vitamin K2 not only inhibited age-related stiffening of artery walls but also achieved “unprecedented statistically significant improvement” in vascular elasticity. Vermeer says these results confirm vitamin K2’s contributions toward improving cardiovascular outcomes.”

Kiwi33, sometimes the message is more important than the messenger.

Kiwi, I never go to quackW and decide who I want to trust. Mercola offers a lot of good info that is right up my healing alley. I've been working in his type alternative healing now for 25 yrs. They are all in business, from conventional to alternative workers, I've just decided I know who I want to trust for my healing.

The single act of belittling and dismissing the life saving Mammogram is enough to have me disregard everything this person says, or claims. If I gave an honest opinion as a 2 time Cancer survivor whose parents both had Cancer, I would be censored at the very least.

Dave.

Dave, there is a whole other world of those who do not subscribe to mamms. I had 2 in my early 50's and none since. I won't get into any debates that's for sure. My mom lived to 91 and never a mamm, her sisters lived into late 80's and neither did they ever have one...

Thinking back about my mom, and the tests were nothing like there are today...she got a postcard from a doctor when she was 86 advising her to go for a mamm, it would be her first, she has lived 86 yrs and none....so she called me and asked me if she should, and I said no way, mom, throw that card away. Some thngs are hard to forget.

I think I've read or heard from someone, they don't even advise them after a certain age.

There is a lot of info out there on these and I've done my work for many years to get to where I am today...thanks.

One of my pet peeves is fluoridation, mass medication of a toxin to the people. Mercola and all the other alternative/integrative MD's are on the side of anti F in our drinking waters and foods. I've been in the anti F battle since I first heard of it's dangers in 1991. I know 98% of Europe does not add "F" to waters but believe the UK still does. I digress but there are so many wrongs going on in the world.

Hi Caroline,

Here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/scie...in-the-UK.html

Shows we only cover 10% of the English population and about 8% of the UK as a whole with naturally or artificially fluoridated water supplies. 50% of 8 year olds have dental decay. Fluoridation in the US is much higher.

I know it is only one part of the puzzle, but as your Chat Show Hosts, Comedians and Comedy shows are always ribbing the English about bad teeth, maybe there is something in the way you do it.

Dave.

Dave, something you may not be aware of, tea leaves are high in fluoride and I know the English love their teas....something to think about and you can do research on that too. I was on a UK run health board for a while and so so many going for replacements so young and I know that "F" does a job on arthritis and fractures...I brought this to their attention, I met a handful of alternative thinking folks but most NOT... Take good care...

The truth behind fluoride in tea study:

http://www.nhs.uk/news/2013/07July/P...alth-risk.aspx

And a flawed scientific method, IMO. Anyone who has used cheaper teabags knows that infusions of 2 minutes would produce a very strong cup, and 30 minutes would be undrinkable tar.

Thankfully, for taste alone I buy quality tea - cheap tea is a false economy when you do not enjoy it - and consume nowhere near the levels quoted on a daily basis.

Dave.

I buy the cheaper tea. One minute in hot water and it is not strong and I only drink one cup in the afternoon. No worry as far as I can see and I wasn't worried before.:)

Here is the group I've worked with and follow. They work around the world and have all the latest info on the "F" issue:

Fluoride Action Network | Broadening Public Awareness on ...


Who knows for sure, maybe "F" is building up around the heart.

There are three groups on this issue: Those who LOVE it and continue to push it on the population.

Those who loath it and fight it as best they can with blogs, books, lectures, etc.

Those who are unaware.

The history is DEEP.

I never thought about the heart and "F", my focus has been on arthritis, fractures, thyroid, IQ but here is info related to cardio:


Fluoride Action Network | Cardiovascular Disease

Hi Kitt,

Your cheaper teas must be different to ours. In our bags the leaves are smaller = lager surface area so brew quicker and stronger.

As with you, I have not nor never will be worried by this. Frankly I gave up listening to the flip-flopping 'good for you/bad for you' dietary scares years ago. I am lucky in that I have no allergies, and am finding my new, balanced, portion control, calorie counting diet (just cutting the junk) is slaking the weight off, and is likely working wonders for my Diabetes.

Dave.

:Scratch-Head: Don't know what kind of leaves are in there. Don't really care. :rm_milk: Love milk. :winky:

Dear Dave,

Thanks. Me, too. One day X is BAD for you and then later, the same X is essential for good health. Flip-flop.

If we began a list of those flip-flops, the list would be long and sometimes comical.

Moderation is one of the guides I use.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion
 

NOT going to debate the issue on mammograms but I just took a friend to appts. for breast cancer treatments. She is 80.

Another friend was recently diagnosed with uterine cancer at the age of 84.

Cancer can occur at any age.

Dave and Kitt, I'm a tea lover too. :)

I've got enough to worry about without worrying about how much fluoride might be in my tea leaves. You can walk across the road and get hit by a car.

I'm all for balance and moderation myself. I like tea so I drink it if I want it but I drink it in moderation. I have about 10 different types of tea all for various taste and situations. Some of my tea is caffeine free. Some is even tannin free. Some is called tea but from a different type of shrub and some is just plain old regular black tea. Some will wake me up and some will help me sleep. I like my cuppa. :)

This is an excerpt from a post by Starznight from July of last year in another thread but was said so well and I thought might be appropriate for the postings in THIS thread.

From MY perspective,..... there is a study on this and that depicted almost daily, backed by "statistics", but I do NOT think jumping on the bandwagon just because there was a "study" is a good practice. At least not for me.

Often, these studies have other studies which contradict each other.

People are entitled to believe as they wish, but that does not make it the right belief for others.

The icons
 

Dear Kitt,

I just LOVE the icons you used in your post. So cute and gave the perfect emphasis to your post.

Thanks. Made me smile for sure.

Personally, I believe it's just wrong to force fluoridation on the population. And believe more health issues in our population are from the accumulation of "F" in our bodies. I was born and raised in "F" water and had no clue for most of my early life. I deal with bodywide OA and can't help believe "F" was a huge reason for this. Lots of sugar in my younger life also bad for joints and more....mouth full of dental work too from my early life.

I don't believe it should be forced upon us either but it is where I'm living at present. [Both chlorine and fluoride]
I don't drink tap water so I buy water. The dilemma with that is the plastic that causes problems itself clogging up landfill and waterways eventually.

I had to laugh in a sarcastic way last week on the local news where the local council had set up water stations so that people could go fill up their glass bottles with chlorinated and fluoridated council water to stop people buying the zillions of plastic containers that we do. Hardly a solution.

______

Having said all that, I'm just thankful I have any sort of water. Some people don't. :/

Oh Lara, I'm thankful for water too, but CaLif is in 5th yr of draught...so our supplies are LOW LOW LOW, grass all over this beach town is brown, no watering allowed...and no rain for years. And yet our city pays the fluoride pushers over $100K a year to add this toxic waste by product. I lived here for 40some years before the "pushers" came in here and bought their way into the council members pockets...it's so corrupt and the pusher industry gets richer and richer and richer.... As I said the history is so deep with Alcoa in PA and then the Mellon family getting on the waste issue and where to put it.

I consider myself an activist at heart and did a lot more when I was younger and stronger, but now all I can do is spread words to others....thanks...

I know NZ is in the throws of the "F" issue and I think some areas in Australia removed "F"...I lose track of what has been going on...much of canada has removed too.

Portland, OR here made a huge stand when they rejected "F" a few years ago. I buy all my drinking and cooking water and yes I realize the plastic issue but I fear that less than the toxins coming out of the tap. We live in a plastic revolution explosion. I was raised with all glass containers and it's hard to find glass storage containers.

One decides which poison they choose, and many don't care.

“I buy all my drinking and cooking water and yes I realize the plastic issue but I fear that less than the toxins coming out of the tap.”


Hi Caroline, it isn’t just tap water that’s problematic. Some bottled waters may also contain fluoride, either as an additive or as a naturally occurring component of spring water.

Even worse, many bottlers do not list fluoride content on their labels. So unless you are drinking a water whose label specifically says it is purified, it is possible for your bottled water to contain small amounts of fluoride.

The only type of bottled water that I’ve seen that actually does say it contains fluoride is the water marketed for infants.

It's a crapshoot for sure and I do my best and do buy better water from whole foods and our coop when on sale...but so angry with what cities buy into. I often buy waters from other countries which I now are CLEAN....but do my best for me and my mind sake.

There is a man running for mayor of grand rapids, mi, the first city fluoridated, and his major position, he will remove the decades of "F" in grand rapids....HOPE HOPE he wins. The "pushers" have gotten away with this for many decades...many fighting this issue have died and the new younger group forges on.