New---Aspercreme with Lidocaine 4%
 

I bought some of this recently.... the lidocaine amount is just shy of a Lidoderm patch. There have been commercials for this on TV too lately. Lidocaine is the only active ingredient. It does not have the other ingredients that regular Aspercreme has.

I am using it and finding a preliminary benefit to my night time pain. I have long suspected my feet hurt alot as referred pain from my knees. (since I retired and don't stand for hours on end anymore).

I apply a small glob (it is a thick lotion and in a bottle, not tube)
on each knee at bedtime. I concentrate on the sides of the knee where the nerves are. And I have seen a marked reduction in pain and burning at night. My left ankle pain is reduced about 80% so far.

So I do think might be helpful for others here. I did find less relief when applied to the tops of the feet themselves. So reaching the nerves higher up seems to work better for me. Try applying it on the lateral sides of the knee, if you have lower leg pain, or ankle pain.

This is the website;
http://www.aspercreme.com/pain-relie...lidocaine.html

The regular Aspercreme works for me a little, but if I try to use it every day it starts to sting the area I apply to.

I believe hubby picked it up for me at Target:
http://www.target.com/p/aspercreme-l...z/-/A-16836627

If you have an allergic problem with --caine anesthetics, then you should avoid this product.

Thanks for this, MrsD.

Perhaps related, I had something interesting happen last week that I was at a loss for explaining.

For about a year now, I've had "altered sensation" the two outer toes on my right foot. It just feels like my socks are bunched up in them...no pain. It's always just been those toes, not the other ones.

Last week while on a little trip, I climbed up a ski slope for no particular reason other than to get a good cardio work-out. My thrice-operated on right knee complained bitterly the next day, AND I suddenly had this altered sensation in my big toe for the first time ever. Not surprisingly I suppose, when the pain in my knee subsided after a couple of days, so did the sensation in my big toe. I'm now just back to altered sensation in those toes.

I'm going to try focusing on my knees as you suggest, and see what happens.

Yes, I know about this... When I dislocated my right knee, years ago.. What a painful thing that was. The pain from it went right to my big toe also.

The ortho I went to asked nothing about it.

So when I was thru with the ortho --had the shot in the joint after Xray and MRIs... I went to a chiropractor who reset my knee. On the entry sheet to fill out there was a diagram of the legs...and it asked for the areas of pain... so I drew it out there.

After she snapped my knee back (why couldn't the DOCTOR do this?--- he wanted to do a knee replacement is why)... the pain in my toe INSTANTLY stopped! This is why when I have to use a Lidoderm in bad pain times... I place it along the back of that knee, and it works in one day for me.

The ortho explained that as we age, our cartilage gets thinner and the knee tends to slip with the increased spaces created.
So I got a knee brace to hold my knee when walking long distances or stressing at the gym. And I started the SAMe to rebuild my cartilage. Both work well for this. 400mg of SAMe daily on an empty stomach in the morning. (Costco is affordable for this).

I too had dislocated that knee walking down a hill. We live in a hilly place and I had that happen the day after a long walk. I think it is the coming DOWN the hill that does it for me.

I thought I was randomly dislocating my knee, and after a few years, finally went back to the ortho. I described what was happening and the exact circumstances that caused it, and he said he thought what was going on is that I have a torn medial meniscus. When I sit specific ways (cross-legged on the ground or with my legs splayed out to my side), the torn piece folds and basically gets stuck. If I keep moving the leg (while in excruciating pain), it will eventually pop, and the pain goes away immediately.

As long as I avoid the offensive sitting positions, I generally don't have issues...unless I do something really aggravating like walking down a ski slope. :rolleyes:

Well, that is very interesting.

There is also the fact that as we age the quads and the hamstrings become out of balance.

My chiro who reset my knee, suggested specific stretches, to balance the tension on the knee and keep it in place. These stretches worked for me.

Mrs D:

Do you think the new creme would work for the SFN that I feel in both palms?

Thanks!

David

Thanks so much for posting this. I will have to look into it.
I use lidocaine patches several times a week. Hit maximum out of pocket, so not much cost now, but will start up again with high cost in January.
Your research and knowledge base really makes a difference for me.
:hug:

Big time. I was rationing out my patches from my tango with shingles, planning on discussing more with my primary, but if this substitutes fine, no need. It is on today's shopping list.

I despise the price tag on the patches. My co-pay is reasonable too, it just irks me that they gougefpr them the way they do.

I hope it works for you baba. I'll be chiming in later this weekend.

I would apply the lidocaine cream along your inner wrists for the palm pain. Is that the only place you have an issue?

We had a fellow here who was straining his hands doing push ups. His palmar pain went away when he stopped that activity.

Do you use the magnesium lotion? (Morton Epsom Lotion)...
This too applied to the wrists and inner arms may help.
Available at WalMart, Walgreen's and online at Amazon. Just a nickles diameter dollop on each wrist is all you need.

Both of these topicals are inexpensive and work for me to quell much of my discomfort.

THIS is exciting!
 

I have PN in my feet and ankles as a result of stenosis at L5/S1 and it's driving me crazy. I am anxious to try this to see if there is any relief in it.

I went to see my pain management specialist a few weeks ago and almost the first words out of her mouth were, "Spinal Cord Stimulation." Not ready for more surgery at this point.

You will want to apply this new product at your spinal level to start. Try also at the knees. The nerves are nearer the surface there. You can try the ankles too...but I did not have long lasting effects there.

$7.99 at Walgreens near me. Having a late breakfast and then some application. I don't need a lidoderm tongue.

I believe that my palm discomfort is true SFN, as it is completely even in discomfort now in both palms, and my latest Therapath skin biopsy showed a big distal drop from 4.5 or so over the last 7 years to 1.99 in the latest report (the first done in 1.5 years)!

Thoughts?

Thank you!

David

David,

Where exactly did they take your skin biopsies from?

If your damage is at the dorsal root level, I don't think topicals can work for you. If your pain is compressive in origin, then yes, I think the lidocaine may work, depending on where you apply it.

When I had my carpal tunnel emergency during my pregnancy.... not just my palms hurt, but my whole hands were on FIRE... it was truly awful.

https://ittcs.wordpress.com/2010/10/...-tigers-mouth/

This link has diagrams of the nerves in the hand. There are several diagrams. Notice that the nerve comes under the wrist ligament, and divides in the palm. If you had a sensory PN only there the fingers should hurt too, not just the palm.

Have you tried ice on your wrists? Compressions often respond to ice, by shrinking the tissue a bit and taking the pressure off.

I just had to jump in here :)
 

That was too cute and funny. It would take MORE than a wrecker for me. It would take a crane, folk lift, and tow truck.

OTC Lidocaine 4%
 

mrsD,

Thanks for the reminder on the OTC Lidocaine 4%.
I had picked some up (Aspercreme brand) the other day and then had forgotten I had it here.
:rolleyes:

Just found it in the pantry. Both DH and I had unpacked groceries.

I like the fact that it is lidocaine only, no Aspercreme .:)

The 4% is much more reasonably priced than the prescribed 5% I used to obtain through the pharmacy. (That may just be my coverage plan.) I expect the OTC 4% will become even more reasonable in price as soon as additional companies start offering it OTC.

:grouphug:

DejaVu

I thought You had healed MrsD i have used This stuff after reading a review on wallmart however i dont deel any effect.
But that is nog zo strange because my nerves have slowlt starting numb over the years i only deel pain of You call of pain after cycling or running to much .Its not realy pain but my nerves are more sensative

I still have flares, and some pain at night. Some is arthritis and and some nerve...It can be difficult to separate that out.

But I do not have any numbness, except for the tips of 2 toes.

How bad was it and how long did You take to heal?

[QUOTE=mrsD;1168839]If your damage is at the dorsal root level, I don't think topicals can work for you. If your pain is compressive in origin, then yes, I think the lidocaine may work, depending on where you apply it.




I don't understand what you mean by the dorsal root level as opposed to compressive neuropathy (which I do understand).

If this was purely a SFN issue without nerve compression at the wrist, then would the topical work or not?

Thanks!

David

Some nerve damage occurs at the dorsal roots. These are along
the spinal cord. This is where shingles lives, and causes much of its pain.

Damage to the dorsal roots, messes up signals from the periphery and eventually the peripheral nerves atrophy away, because the dorsal root area does not complete the feedback to them properly. (this has been shown in primates so far and is theorized to happen with humans)

this link has details about the dorsal roots:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread147771.html

If your dorsal roots are damaged...I don't think applying lidocaine to the wrists would work much or at all.

Do you use solvents, cleaners alot? Apply them without gloves?
Do you exercise and put weight on your palms? Push ups and pull ups can damage the carpal tunnel.

The lidocaine Aspercreme is about $7... so get a tube and apply on the inner wrist areas of both hands and see what happens.
In fact you can try the discussed fingertip wrinkling test with the same product.

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread225598.html

Compressive neuropathy in the hands most often occurs at the inner wrist where the carpal tunnel is.
It can also occur at the facets of the vertebrae of the spine. This is basically mechanical or traumatic.

The dorsal roots are another location...and this damage is typically viral, infectious, and/or toxin/drug/chem in origin.

Thanks Mrs D
 

I have newly diagnosed diabetic neuropathy with burning at the bottom of my feet. So I have burning on the bottom of my feet so after reading your posts and reviewing leg and nerve anatomy I am guessing the best application point is right above the back of my knee or the sides of my knee where the nerve split off and go down the back of the leg to the bottom of my feet. I think you are saying no relief with putting on my back of my ankles. Or directly on the bottom of my feet. Which one????

Cost of this med
 

$7.99 Walgreen. $10.49 at CVS. $6.48 Walmart. Has anyone found any coupons. I am a big to the point of extreme couponer so I try to get a coupon for everything. I never pay retail. If they want me to buy their product they have to motivate me. Haha

I think the website has a $1.00 coupon.

http://www.aspercreme.com/

For applying to the feet... apply to the TOPS of the feet and up the ankle front, left and right. The back has thick skin and the lidocaine may not penetrate. Same for the bottoms of the feet.

The sides and backs of the knees are an alternate spot to try.

You'll just have to try one night one location. And the next do the second location. And compare.

I find it lasts 2 days for me, then I get a bit of rebound.
rub it in well, so it doesn't come off on the bedding, or clothing.

I'd like to remind people that this new lotion/cream by Aspercreme is not approved for covering large areas of the body.

It comes in a small size for a reason. Lidocaine is a strong drug and this product has warnings on the label. So please read them.

I find that this lidocaine lasts for me at least 2 days. So you can rotate sites each day so if you have more than one location that needs it.

It did not work- no relief.

I've not had much luck with lidocain in any form including the patches. I get much better results with menthol which is a topical analgesic and inexpensive to boot.

What is menthol? Is there a name brand?

Menthol is the active ingredient in Biofreeze and other over the counter topical creams for muscle aches and pains. I like a product called Relief from Corganics. It has less menthol than Biofreeze. I often have to mix the biofreeze with a carrier to cut the 4% menthol down a little. My body likes 2.5% menthol.

I love this creme!
 

I just tried the aspercreme with lidocaine cream last night for the burning and it worked great! The relief lasted all night for everything except a slight muscle pulling that began in one leg. It had been more then 6 hours so I applied a little more to the one spot and it was gone until morning. I am going to try to only use this product when absolutely necessary so hopefully it will continue to work.

Better than prescription?!
 

I've been using 3% Lidocaine Cream, by prescription, and was close to running out. Now I don't need to ask for a new prescription. Thanks! :)

Where did you apply the crème. I followed Mrs. D's recommendation but did not get any relief, then I fudged and apply some to the bottom of my feet and it worked fine and is still working. Sorry, Mrs. D. I think the soles of my feet are the skinniest part of my body so maybe the nerves are closer because there is not much fat down there. LOL

I applied to the tops of my feet but there was a little left so I used that on the bottom of my feet too. Last night I tried on the side of my knees but it didn't work so well for me.

I do know the skin is thicker on the bottom of the feet and harder to absorb lotions. However, I had such good luck the 1st night I'd probably repeat the same areas again next time.

It's really an individual decision. Whatever or wherever works for you. There's no one right answer in my opinion.

access to meds
 

I would love to try something like the Aspercreme with Lidocaine but it's illegal in my country. Just tried Amazon to see if it was possible but it blocked me. I have severe burning pain in my feet and hands and nothing helps. It's meant I'm now in a wheelchair. It's incredibly frustrating knowing there are a wide range of medications available overseas that could be helpful that I'm never going to be able to access.

This is partly a slightly depressed rant and also wondering if some others face this difficulty? If so any ideas about solutions?

I found out today I'm being discharged from the pain clinic who have seen me for the last 9 months. So it's sort of end of the line. I pretty much know what's available to me and also know it's not enough as I'm steadily
deteriorating. It means I'll have no specialist care but I think there's a recognition that they don't have anything else to offer me. They've been very good to me and I'm grateful but I'm also scared. My quality of life is not high. Guess the frustration is knowing there could be something out there that could make things more bearable but I can't access it simply because of the country I live in. Sorry if this sounds very negative. Just a bit worn out.

According to this link:
http://www.drugs.com/international/lidocaine.html

Emla is available in NZ. It might require a doctor's prescription, but I don't see any pain doctor denying a request for it.

For better penetration, it carries a recommendation to cover the area with plastic wrap (thin food wrap). But it may work without that too.

I would like to repeat my warning:

Do not apply to large areas in one dose. This product is quite potent IMO and the other night my husband put some on my
problematic back shoulder. It had been a few days since the last application. Well, I couldn't see what he was doing, and he put too much on.

Somehow it affected my left ear nerve, and affected it somehow and I had a huge vertigo attack the next morning on the left side. I still cannot move my head back and to the left without some dizziness... but the surging awful vertigo was terrible. That left ear was tested years ago (in the '70's), and the results of the electronystagmagram showed severe nerve damage (possibly from measles or abuse as a child)... and I have had 4 vertigo attacks as an adult from that ear since. I do think it was from too much Lidocaine.

So do be careful with this new cream and use cautiously.

I would think that the patches would have much more. They recommend the use of up to three patches at one time. I'm guessing that would be a lot more than a large dose of that cream. I've used fairly large amounts of a 2.5 with no issues, and putting it on several times a day. So unless they have a warning about that I'm not sure if it's an issue for most. I could be wrong of course.

The patches are designed to release the lidocaine slowly ...over 12 hours. I've never used more than one patch of Lidoderm, and usually cut them down in fact. But I have never had this symptom when using the patch on my back before.

The cream seems to penetrate quickly, IMO.

http://www.target.com/p/aspercreme-l...z/-/A-16836627