Mental Bootcamp
 

I have heard of Carrick, Hyperbaric, and all that I guess we can add one more to the list of places offering supposed hope for this wretched injury. Cognitive Fx, only place that uses an FMRI for treatment.

Cognitive fx.

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=36830294&ni...ussion-victims

It looks a lot like the stuff at carrick. I believe that it helps a lot of people but not all.

I used the dynavision (board with push buttons that light up) at the carrick-trained physician's clinic. And I used it at a hospital. Didn't notice anything.

Playing catch with two tennis balls was part of my therapy, among some eye exercises.

I believe the end of the video said it costs 6-9 grand approximately.

But..
 

Carrick s a chiro and these are scientists supposedly at the forefront of concussion research. Also the fmri is intriguing. Supposedly Norman Doidge is recommending it as the place to go to for concussion rehab. It is expensive but I almost feel like money has lost all is value since concussion. I am willing to burn out my investments to try to get better. If I don't get better I will be living in my moms house for the rest of my life anyway.

Cog FX is a team of a NeuroPsychologist and a Cognitive Neuroscientist with expertise in neuro-imaging. I am surprised they do not do a before and after NeuroPsychological Assessment in their research. Their standard for improvement/recovery is patient reporting and fMRI imaging showing a return to baseline based on a baseline established by 'healthy' population participants.

It will be very interesting to see some validating structured clinical trials.

$6900 to $9500 for a week of treatment seems quite high for a target of 80% recovery.

There is a lot that makes sense such as being able to target specific brain functions that need rehabilitation. I struggle to see how less than a weeks therapy can provide such drastic improvements. The brain just does not respond that quickly in most situations.

But, the fact that insurance does not cover any of the program means only the wealthy can afford it.

Dr Amen's clinics use SPECT imaging to find the dysfunctional parts of the brain and then targets treatment to those issues. Again, a cash based treatment program.

So any takers!
 

What do people think? Dr. Phong is saying that she has improved every single persons symptoms that has gone through her program. That's is 300 people so far. So anyone planning on trying this.

My concern is her lack of transparency about the therapy. She claims good results but does not say what the therapies are. She says patients claim an 80 to 100% recovery. That is quite a range. She does not say if those patients come to her at week one after a concussion or at a later time.

There are an awful lot of unknowns for such an expensive week.

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCEKNDpmHUduo0IbQoTA5Fbg

Their YouTube channel has quite a few testimonials.

Like most people on here, I'd try it if I had the money and it were closer. It's in Utah I believe. I already have spent a lot of money trying to heal me up and have found the most success with a 300$ light machine where the therapy is called syntonic phototherapy.

Are you currently thinking of giving it a shot?

You could send any questions you have to thee clinic.

Hi QtipsQ,

I just scheduled an initial consultation with Dr. Phong at Cognitive FX for November 17th. Have you thought about setting something up OR already had this consultation?

If so, curious how it went. Also, wondering where you received the statistic that all 300 of her patients reported improvement. Is that somewhere online?

Thanks

Initial consultation
 

I set up an initial consult too. See what she has to say, I am still very skeptical but that is what she says in her interview. Everyone sees an improvement, they don't guarantee anything and also the clinic has been created by dr. phong and her associates after a decade of supposed research. I would like to know what improvements is she seeing. If she can restore me anywhere close my previous self that would be amazing. For me that means that she makes me headache free.

Yup, that makes sense. I did the same thing. This seems interesting. Saw the video where she claims everyone of the 300 folks was significantly improved. That's interesting.

Good luck to us!

Dr Fong categorizes improvements two ways. Patient reports are one. The other is a repeat of the fMRI. If she sees the brain functioning in the fMRI image in accordance with her 'normal' database, she considers it an improvement.

The patient reports are subjective and hard to substantiate. There have been self-reporting concussion symptoms check lists for 2 decades (SCAT I). They do not necessarily reflect the brain under stress or at its worst performance. Self-reporting in a therapy setting can tend to cause a bias toward improvement as the therapist reinforces the value of small improvements during therapy sessions.

I wish she was more forthcoming about these issues. Her claim to her high success rate flies in the face of every other protocol. She did not invent the holy grail of concussion recovery for every patient.

Keep in mind that 85% recover spontaneously in 6 weeks or so. How many of her successes are in that 85% ?

Initial screening
 

So just got done with a phone interview with Dr. Phong. It all sounds too good to be true, supposedly 85% of her patients have made a full recovery in her words, the other 15% have greatly improved. That is over 400 patients, maybe she has made " the holy grail of concussion recovery" it is $7900 for a week long therapy and can get more expensive if you need more days to get completely better.

She said they will monitor 54 different parts of the brain in real time and each part will have its own list of therapies depending on the dysfunction. I guess it's time to fork over some more money. I will tell everyone about my progress. If it works the world becomes my oyster all over again.

She does have some solid credentials, she is the second opinion doctor for the NFL. I told her I was skeptical, she said everyone is but everyone sees an improvement. So.. I am still processing this, is it possible I go do One week of therapy and I become my normal old self again? Sounds too good to be true....!


www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVI9dZ618Z0

QtipsQ,

Thanks for sharing that. Absolute best of luck to you. When do you anticipate you will have your week? Anything scheduled, and did they mention how soon they were available to have you over?

I am up against a wall. I had never had suicidal thoughts till today, and I ended up calling the crisis hotline earlier today. I am so scared that I will just have to make peace with how I am now. And the more I try to accept that, the stronger my darkest thoughts get.

I am scheduled for a treatment with Cognitive FX on January 11th. I have presented many of my questions to them, and they do think I'd be a great candidate. At this point, I am definitely going to go in for that. I am also scheduled for treatment at Dr. Cantu's Concussion Center starting next Monday. Will hope to know more then.

Best of luck to all.

BUMP

any updates from anyone else on this?

I had an interview with Dr Fong and she was like scary optimistic.

this is a direct quote from her "97% percent of patients treated have seen 85% or better inprovement"

Is it possible shes figured this crap 'disease' out?

There is also a pretty long waitlist and its 7900 bucks. Thats a lot of money.

If you look a bit deeper into how she determines her improvement stats, you will find they should be considered carefully. Her lack of transparency leaves me concerned. I'm not saying her protocol does not help. Just that her anecdotally based claims of xx% improvement need to be carefully considered.

Gotta try it..
 

I guess hermantor is up first. I am going to set up a go fund me and see if friends and family can help with the costs. I am a complete skeptic about this but my god if she can improve me even 50% I will be so psyched.

I have to try this because I haven't been able to heal myself. I will also like to see my brain and find out the extent of damage, if it's recoverable and what do the experts think of it. $7900 to get my life back, it's the cost of a used car....!

Good luck. I still don't understand how she is planning to circumvent the physically damaged Brain but then again the testimonials on YouTube have people making complete recoveries after 5 days....!

Dude I would roll 7900 bucks up and smoke them if someone could promise me it would make me feel better.

Hahaha yup, I feel the same way. January 11-15th, I'll keep you guys posted

Testimonials from Cognitive FX
 

Here is Cognitive fx's Twitter feed. Bunch of testimonials..I am thinking if you are still suffering and have the money. You have to try it..right? I mean all these people aren't lying..right?

https://mobile.twitter.com/cognitivefx

I'd sure like to see some objective criteria of before and after. Some Neuro Psychological scales and other data would be great. A 5 minute YouTube video that says "I'm doing much better." is not helpful. And, as I have said before, some transparency about the treatments/therapies used would be helpful.

If it is so good, why are they not replicating the protocol so it is available in other locations ? A great scientist wants as many as possible to benefit.

Just lots of questions.

Agree
 

Completely agree with that statement. I am still a skeptic but then again I have to try it too. I guess the MRI scores are there main objective tool, also financially there is a lot of money to be made by not giving their protocol away. She is a neuropsychologist so she should know all about neuropsychological testing. Supposedly they are trying to get this treatment out to other clinics but it's too complex and they need to train people.

I think the main benefit here is that they can make your injury visible with the fmri. Also having some top concussion doctors to talk to.real doctors, not chiropractors, not PTs but actual MDs and neurosurgeons. So we shall see.

everyone who does this please come back and report. thanks

"Also having some top concussion doctors to talk to.real doctors, not chiropractors, not PTs but actual MDs and neurosurgeons. So we shall see. "

The MD appears to not work in the clinic but rather consult.

They mention submitting their research but I could not find any of it, not even on their web site. They are charging an awful lot of money for a developing protocol.

[The originators of Cognitive FX have solid academic credentials and they've published their protocols in peer-reviewed journals. But they've been open less than two years and their success claims have not been peer-reviewed.

An outside expert who asked not to be identified by name said, "This is based in science" and "it could be" a breakthrough. But the expert said Cognitive still needs to prove that the healing is permanent instead of temporary.

"Obviously," the expert said, "we need some research on it."]

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=36830294&ni...ussion-victims

The research abstracts they list do not have much application to the CogFX protocol.

But those testimonials are fascinating..
 

I know Mark, they are charging a lot of money. Feels unfair, feels like I am being taken advantage of but I keep hearing those testimonials and if there is even a 10% chance to see that kind of improvement my mind is telling me I have to try it. Nothing to lose right now, life with PCS is going to be hell. I am 16 months in, living like this forever! I am afraid all of us are not strong enough to deal with the blow this injury serves to a person.

Even though I am trying...Feldenkrais has been helping a lot, being inside my mind feels good, maybe a new career as a feldenkrais instructor will be my move if nothing works out for me. Super slow super peaceful. Maybe it might be key to healing in the long term. For the short term I guess I have to try this and let everyone know if it works.

Any more thought on this qtipsq? I believe that hermanator is having his/her treatment his week, and I'm hoping to see some results on here. Im like you where I am super sick of living like this and I feel obligated to at least give this treatment a go.

Going to do it February 8th
 

Yeah after listening to every single testimonial I feel like it might be the last place that can heal me. Spending my life in this walking coma doesn't seem too appealing, other option is to go sit and meditate on an island that I used to travel to and learn to accept who I have become. Something I am having a really hard time doing from such a silly accident.

They keep touting really high numbers on their success rate and most of their testimonials are from people 16 to 18 months removed from their injury. I have talked to them a few times and they keep saying everyone is seeing a significant change. I want to see my fmri scan, it's the only place that has specific bio markers for this injury. I know Mark in Idaho has no faith in these places but then again people are healing. It's the only place with so many positive testimonials and the only place where the doctors are super optimistic about outcomes.

To me ,this Brain injury might be one of the worst things that a human can go through. A lot of me can't see how it's possible to go on like this for the rest of our lives. The idea of it makes me sick to my stomach, I am willing to go broke trying to fix it.

Their treatment
 

http://www.cognitivefxusa.com/concus...nt-differences It's based in a decade of research on Mtbi.

I honestly think their research and the protocol seems pretty logical from a scientific point of view. And the fact that it is valid enough to be accepted as sufficient to prove or disprove brain injury in court makes me think there is even more to it. Unfortunately I didn't win the powerball so I'll need to find a way to get those kinds of monies

There is no such place in the uk. No such option and no such hope.

But there are planes!
 

If you can get the funds together I doubt it's more than a $1000 to fly out to Utah from UK. She supposedly sees patients from all over the world.

Cog FX is not yet admissible in court. They are trying to promote it for that purpose but according to Frye standards (general acceptance) and the more recent Daubert standards, it is a long way from court evidence levels.

Those expert witnesses would need to argue their qualifications and the evidence of the fMRI before a judge. It is called a Daubert motion.

Cog FX appears to be looking for legal opportunities to argue its validity in court.

Other systems with much broader use and acceptance have tried to get past this level of court acceptance.

Just don't use their comment about offering it to legal cases as any sort of validation.

Cog FX Review
 

Hey everyone,

So i just got back from Cognitive FX. It's a great 4 day bootcamp comprised of different therapies like Neuromuscular, Cognitive, brain games, dynavision.

They've helped with my headaches. But, it is definitely not a silver bullet - or at least was not one for me. Time will be the biggest healer but if you have some money to spare, they can possibly accelerate your healing. According to their fmri I made great strides in the few days I was there, but to be completely honest my symptoms have not changed much. I do feel sharper, and my memory feels sharper. But, my headaches are still there and my biggest symptom of inability to populate emotions is still there. But, I will say that while I was at Cog, a couple of patients did see major major improvements. And they were extremely pleased. So, not a silver bullet for me. But it was extremely helpful for 2 of the 6 other patients there this week.

So are you saying it was worth the money or not ?? Also can you describe " failure to populate emotions"

Improvements for 2 out of 6 can easily be placebo effect. Placebo effect can be as high as 60%.

I had hoped to hear a better result.

I'm not sure if it was worth the money. I would have to reserve judgment on that for the next few weeks as they said these improvements will continue over the next few weeks. I can provide a more honest opinion then.

2 out of the 6 of us had big break throughs. I did not. I'm not entirely sure how the other 3 faired. They might have had improvements as well, I didn't get to talk to them.

Just out of curiosity where did you get the number that "placebo effect can be as high as 60 percent" it seems to me if that were the case no scientific findings could ever be considered clinically significant.

Placebo effect can be as high as 60%. Different conditions have different placebo responses. Researchers need to normalize their studies for placebo effect. With concussions, anxiety can be a big cause of worsening symptoms. Placebo can resolve anxiety thus reducing the symptoms made worse by anxiety. Some therapies are preceded by videos that show testimonials of success stories. Other pre-therapy explanations of what kind of results to expect can impact the placebo effect.

Paying a bunch of money can contribute to placebo effect.

More than a month later - just want to be on the record saying Cognitive FX did absolutely nothing for me. All my symptoms are still there. My headaches are just as bad.

Some people felt like they were helped tremendously while I was there. In my opinion, they also seemed somewhat gullible OR extremely optimistic. Still, I definitely don't know if others were helped or not because I haven't stayed in touch with them. But, for me I got 0 improvement.

Figured I should share since many of you have asked, and many might be wondering. Good luck to all. Things do get better with time. Just gotta find ways to make this bearable in the meantime.

Thanks for sharing, has the clinic been actively following up with you to see how you're doing? Or have they not followed up at all?