Magnesium?
 

What is the correct type (brand) and amount of magnesium one should take as a daily supplement?

Thank you,

Cliffman:)

Any Chelate = glycinate, citrate, gluconate, malate, taurate etc.

Magnesium in chloride form used in delayed release also works.
This is called SlowMag (generic =Mag64) It needs smaller doses because it works better for most people,

Topical forms applied to the target area, work well too.
There is Morton Epsom Lotion, Kirkman's cream, Epsom-It etc.
The Morton is what many of us use here.

Go for 1/2 the RDA to start. That is about 200mg elemental (except for SlowMag which is one tablet twice a day).

This is our Magnesium thread:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread1138.html

Magnesium blocks the NMDA pain receptors, and is helpful for pain control. Most people do not get enough magnesium thru the diet, and therefore are not functioning optimumly.

It's a personal preferece, however..
 

I had tried both glycinate and malate without noticing a difference in my symptoms. I then tried slow mag and for me it has helped the most. I take 1 with breakfast and one with dinner.

Not sure if you are still using gabapentin...

FYI - DO NOT take Magnesium in any form if you are on Gabapentin. It is counterintuitive. it will more than likely worsen your pain.

I take gabapentin and magnesium
 

together sometimes and I have not had any problems. However, since magnesium may decrease the amount of gabapentin your body absorbs it is suggested magnesium be taken 2 hours before gabapentin.

The Mayo Clinic website listed only these specific forms of magnesium in relation to gabapentin absorption:

Magnesium Carbonate
Magnesium Hydroxide
Magnesium Oxide
Magnesium Trisilicate

So, if you're worried you could take another chelate like glycinate, citrate, gluconate, malate, taurate etc.

The lotion would be a better alternative for some people
using gabapentin.

But spacing the oral would work too as long as no
gastroparesis is present.

Interesting, i have tried it with spacing and it didn't go well even then. The worst experience I ever had with it was the Magnesium Oil. (chloride Brine). it was extremely painful even in small amount. My neuro said that it was becuase of Gabapentin. Said, if taking gabapentin you really dont need any supplementation of magnesium.

Yes, still trying to work my way up to a level that will help with the pain. So far I can tolerate 100 mg in the morning and 200 mg at night, which does help but it is not enough. I'm trying to make the Gaba work because the other option is Lyrica. The Gaba effects my eyesight and makes me tired but I heard Lyrica does that too.

Thanks for the warning about the Magnesium!

Cliffman :)

Sorry Patrick that you have that severe a reaction to magnesium! I will be more mindful about the spacing because for me magnesium has been a game changer and I would hate to have to give it up!

I also use the magnesium lotion (Morton's Epsom Lotion) when needed at night and it has been a help especially for muscle pulling and/or twitching.

There is very little to be found on the net...about this potential interaction except for the absorption issue at the stomach level.

I did find this very high tech article on rats, involving injecting
directly into the spine...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12766660

I have not found any studies yet on humans.

This drug has been used now for many years, with still vague expanations or no explanations on how it works.

The new theories involve calcium channels... and if this proves to be true, magnesium is a player in regards to the NMDA pain receptors which are calcium driven.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11966555

One would think Big Pharma could provide the needed evidence by now about mechanisms of action?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9551785
This link contains a flurry of possible scenarios.

Magnesium as such is a NMDA antagonist and as such is valuable for pain relief. It might even be BETTER than gabapentin which shows only efficacy for about 30% of the people who use it.

I think at this point documentation of magnesium hindering gabapentin, once absorbed into the blood stream, is not compelling yet.

I'll keep looking later today.

I was told simply that Magnesium keeps Gabapentin from working. Magnesium decreases the body's ability to absorb the medicine. I am in the 30% of people who does receive partial relief from gabapentin.

its also difficult for a lot of people to space it out when they can be on gabapentin regimens where you take the pills every 4 or 5 hours.

Yes, I agree.... it does make it difficult to space anything.

But the mag usually is only one dose for most people daily.
(maybe two)

The mechanism of how magnesium and calcium inhibit absorption of gabapentin, is a solubility problem. Gabapentin is not well absorbed anyway...by itself.

Many drugs have his solubility issue with iron, calcium and magnesium. The minerals tend to attach to the drug molecule and make it too large to be absorbed. This is called "complexing" and binds both to each other making it less water soluble. Tetracyclines, Cipro (fluoroquinolones), also are complexed by calcium and magnesium, and get a warning sticker to remind the patients to avoid them when taking those antibiotics.

I don't see how applying to the skin would interfere much with gabapentin once it is absorbed and past the stomach, in the RDA dosing we use here

There is a doctor online on this link:
http://www.ncf-net.org/forum/neurontin98.htm
who makes a claim that magnesium interferes in the brain with Neurontin (gabapentin)....but I could not find corroboration of that yet.

Since magnesium is an essential mineral that we need each day in our food, it would be a serious, and I would think well documented situation, to have this interaction in the brain.

So sticking to using only the RDA of magnesium, which is what I suggest doesn't seem worrisome at this point. Really high dose magnesium that doctors give IV, that is another thing entirely.
When given this way, the doses are huge, and nothing like the doses we use here. Some migraine treatments use grams of magnesium intravenously.

Well, maybe i am an anomaly. Just thought my neuro not being surprised at all at
the bad reaction meant there was something to it.

One would think so - but gabapentin is now available generically and is not very expensive. So, there is not much incentive for the pharmaceutical companies to put money into complex studies.

If someone had exclusive license, and could sell gabapentin for $1000/month - we would know a lot more in short order.

Mechanism of action is clear. it turns you into a zombie.

@ragtop....

Either that, or the more ominous answer that the drug companies know full well how the drugs work and are just not telling.

The SSRIs were put on the market with no clear understanding of how they work.
Still there is controversy that they don't work at all.

Glaxo was sued by NY State to reveal its negative studies on Paxil and ended up doing so. (resulting in a dramatic drop in the use of Paxil in the US.

We know now that the cardiac damaging effects of Cox-2 inhibitors was known when they were launched. (I had found the prostacyclin effects), even before this drug class was allowed to be sold. So Merck KNEW about the risks.There were sales memos instructing the reps on how to handle questions from doctors. These were shown on 60minutes years ago during the Vioxx scandal. The FDA really is only given bare bones information about drugs these days.

There was a doctor on the Zyprexa clinical trials that shredded data on QT sudden deaths in that study.
more:
http://www.theicarusproject.net/nyt-...rexa-documents

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/ar.../t-104025.html

I really find it very difficult to grasp that Big Pharma doesn't know about their own drugs. And shame on the FDA for not being more careful and requesting this withheld information.

I believe that Pfizer already knows all about Lyrica and Neurontin, and is not releasing that information.

It does seem to have that effect for a significant number of people, especially when they first start on the drug. I've been on and off the drug once as an off label use to treat anxiety, now back on again for about a year due to the PN.

All things being equal, I would rather not be on this (or any) drug - but I really needed it to control severe cramping. I do want to taper back off to see if I can get by without it, but might wait until after the holidays.

As for the "zombie effect" - it took a little while to adjust, but at 1800 mg/day I really don't have any issues with sleepiness during the day. I drive long distances for work on a regular basis, so I couldn't take something that made me sleepy. However, I do sleep much better at night so that's a good thing. The biggest negative for me is its effect on "libido", but that's a quality of life trade-off that I have to accept.

Now, if you want to turn me into a zombie - give me some tricyclic anti-depressants. I won't just be a sleepy zombie, I'll be a "Living Dead" eat-your-face-off kind of zombie :eek:

So, as much as I hate being on any medication, I'd hate to completely scare anyone away from Gabapentin if they are really in need of relief. Just like any drug, it affects everyone differently. We all are guinea pigs to some extent, searching for something that brings relief. And I honestly think gabapentin has a milder side effect profile on average than most of the other pharmaceutical options that are out there.

I agree...I actually, do take gabapentin. I was just trying to have a little fun.

I personally can't handle more than 1200mg a day of the stuff. Right now I am at 300mg per day. On occasion I will go up to 600mg but i really get a slap in the face as to why i don't wanna go up that much from the somnolence. I have noticed some other great benefits of gabapentin though. it completely frees me of the migraines i used to get and my sensitivity to bright light lessens when i am on it. It also has helped with my panic attack issue as well as allowing me to get a decent night's sleep of course. I have not had a bad libido problem taking it. I also find I have to cycle off the drug at times becuase it just seems to stop working if I dont.