Atlas bone is uneven, worth correcting?
 

Hi all, I had some x Ray's done by a private chiropractor and it shows that my c1 virtibre rests at an angle. My jaw is also off as my bite juts to one side. My jaw has been this way my whole life, or most of it. My upper spine shows a slight kink. I've shown this to a neurologist and he didn't seem to think it's a cause for concern. My question is, should I be having this corrected or is it best left well alone?

I'm still suffering from pcs at 13 months post injury.

This work is done primarily by Nucca workers...working on the Atlas aka C1. My friend is looking into this as her neck has been frozen for 5 yrs since hip replacement and rehab experience. I've known about this atlas work but don't know anyone who has done it. Could help, but ......

Everything we try is a chance.

Why did a chiro do an x-ray if he was not planning on treating what he found ?

What did the chiro recommend ?

Some general chiros can help with C-1. Sometimes, you need to find a NUCCA or Atlas Orthogonal chiro. The Vitamins sticky has links to a referral database of each type of chiro.

What symptoms are you having and can they be related to your neck ?

btw, 999 out of 1000 times, an MD will discount anything a chiro says.

Mark,

He of course recommended a course of neck twisting treatment, which I wasn't happy about having, the procedure seems too forceful to me. The treatment amounted to around £800, which is amazingly expensive. I think the right side of the soft tissues in my neck are damaged which causes a tight feeling at the back of it. This gets exacerbated with concentration. I'm not 100% sure, but I think my neck has always been like this, the blow to the head may have exacerbated the issue, however.

Good decision. Stay away from that chiro. No chiro can reliably set up a treatment plan like that one tried to do.

As you said, the twist the head and pop the neck treatment is too forceful.

Do you sleep on your side ?

Some gentler treatments with you following that with disciplined sleep and rest posture (neck as straight as possible) will be much better. No chiro treatment will work if one does not follow with good neck posture discipline, too. It takes many weeks or even months of discipline while sleeping to allow the ligaments to strengthen and tighten to hold proper C-1 position.

Some videos on actual Upper cervical adjusting -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9fGT-gaxzA

no twisting needed..

Possibly some of your kinks or misalignments could be from birth or some anomaly..
but I would try a skilled upper cervical a few times and see if anything improves.. don't sign up for a set plan or time frame.
Each case is different. Upper cervical alone - may not be what you need. Some of the practitioners only do upper cervical and nothing else.. I feel that is a mistake by those practitioners.

My chiro used a drop table and leg length checks for the c1 c2, he also did gentle /careful standard adjustments and used other modalities for soft tissue treatment.
I do feel he was one of the highly skilled healer types..multi talented..

I do sleep on my side, you would recommended sleeping on my back? Also, I'm not sure if this is related to my injury or not, but tonight I've been noticing some weird 'lights' buzzing around in my right side periferal vision. Kind of look like when somebody shines their watch face to reflect the sun. Never had that before. When I look, they vanish.

A lot depends on your pillow/mattress combo.
The best pillow is what fits you, and how you sleep.
And a worn out mattress is bad all around..

It's all about how your head gets angled pillow too high, too soft ?
side sleeper - w/ large shoulders or small shoulders?

a few info sites-
http://www.wikihow.com/Choose-a-Pillow
http://www.pillowadvisor.co.uk/how-t...illow-for-you/
http://www.ultimatesleep.com.au/expe...-right-pillow/

My mattress is only a couple of years old, and it's a pretty decent one, although my wife hates it. My shoulders are fairly broad, pillow seems and OK height though. Problem is, it's difficult to know what I'm doing when asleep. For all I know I could be doing head stands! Except when I wake up. I always do that.

The point is to be sure your pillow holds your head straight with your spine. If your head hangs to the side, it would be difficult to get any benefit from a chiro or other treatment. I had to learn to sleep on my side.

You did not answer about your continuing symptoms, especially those that could be attributed to your neck. Head aches, maybe a vestibular issue, breathing (apnea) ??

My neurologist seemed to think that my issues are stemming from my neck. These include tingling which also goes to the right side of the back of my head, pressure either side of the back of my head, headaches, trouble with screens or monitors and concentration brings on the above with added gusto. I have no idea how to ease this type of suspected whiplash injury other the just wait in misery for it to maybe go away one day.

Have you had any physical therapy for the neck at all?
If you prefer to avoid chiro again try PT. A good one of course..

The neurologist did not mention PT or anything? :( hmmm.
If any dr is not being of much help seek out a better one..or get another opinion or more.
It's your life so you have to be proactive to find the best care possible, don't settle for less.

PT often can help with whiplash/soft tissue injuries..

Doozer,

You might look for an osteopath or D.O. as they are labeled here rather than M.D. They usually have some less aggressive spinal manipulation skills.

My PT would lay be on the table on my back. Grab my head and put gentle tension/traction that gently manipulated C-1 with her fingers or gently rock my head under traction until she could sense a change. My PT is one in a million. I hope you can find one with similar skills.

Ok I will try looking for one of those. This is a sorry state of affairs, I hope I can recover soon, I'm bored with this now.

I think most of us would benefit from trying to adopt the correct posture when standing and sitting at the devils window (computer). It has a big impact on breathing and hence blood oxygen. I know I slouch too much and I sometimes find I even need to relax my shoulders in bed too. I went to a chiro a couple of times but can't say it had much benefit, I think a physio would have been better, gentle manipulation rather than bone cracking which I am not convinced does much.

Yeah, that's what I thought. I think I made the right choice by both not getting conned and not making a bad condition potentially worse. Thanks all.

There are good & bad practitioners/providers in every aspect of life, be aware and weed out the bad as soon as possible.

Learn as much as you can about PT, MD, DC, DO before you go , so if they suggest or try something sketchy you can say "no thanks" and go elsewhere..

The chiro 'bone cracking' in places other than C-1 and maybe C-2 can be amazingly beneficial. But, C-1 and C-2 need a gentler approach for many. The issue is not as much posture while awake and looking at the computer as it is that posture when the muscles are relaxed, sleeping or resting. We can put a lot of strain on the C-0 (occiput) to C-1( Atlas) and C-1 to C-2 when sleeping. Those joints do not have the self lubricating function the lower joints have so when they get out of place, they can tend to stay that way. Then, the ligaments get stretched and the surrounding tissue inflamed.

Many feel uncomfortable with their head laying flat. Maybe there is a vestibular memory. It is a learned behavior to be able to rest or sleep with minimal pillow lift when on your back. It can be learned because many have. I use no pillow lift at all. I bunch up my pillow to the side so my right cheek rests against it. A challenge is falling asleep without tossing to change position/posture. I wonder if sleeping with a cervical collar would help.

I must admit, my posture isn't great. I try to straighten up whenever I catch myself slouching. Spine has a curve on it, but again, old news. Never caused any trouble pre injury.

Slouching has nothing to do with upper neck posture. There is an old song that starts: "The head bone is connected to the neck bone" An impact to the head also impacts the upper neck. Studies show that upper neck injuries contribute to PCS symptoms in up to 80% of cases.

Posture is about maintaining good head and neck posture so healing can happen. If you break a bone, they put a cast on it so it is stable as it heals. The upper neck needs that same stability so the ligaments and tendons can heal. Plus, poor head and neck position causes inflammation. One wants to avoid causing that inflammation at all costs.

For me, one of my problems was getting progressive lenses in my glasses. I started needing to tilt my head back and forth to find the focus spot in my glasses. This appeared to aggravate my upper neck until I got disciplined to support healing. I can hear the C-1 to C-0 joint grind as I move my head up and down.

The thing I find really confusing is, why would my symptoms get worse when I concentrate? None of my symptoms have been very typical of pcs, such as no dizziness, memory issues, sight issues and so on. This would suggest that my brain has received minimal damage. But if most of my issues suggest neck injury, why would that affect my ability to concentrate or watch TVs?

Your brain could be working at limited power. To concentrate or watch TV, it has to step up the processing power. A common problem with PCS is the brain's ability to focus on one issue and ignore the others. A healthy brain can easily do this. An injured brain may not do it as well.

My brain doesn't. My neuro, after examining how my brain functions, said, "You hear everything. How do you handle that ?" This precisely my problem. If I want to watch TV, I need to wear headphones so my brain does not hear the faint ambient sounds in the room or the echos. Without the head phones, it is difficult to focus on the TV.

For many, this function will recover over time. For some of us, we just have to learn workarounds.

One of my work arounds is simple. If I need to concentrate and can close my eyes, I can concentrate much better. With my eyes closed, the brain does not have to put processing effort into the visual and can put that effort into other needed processes.

A saying to remember is simple. We often need to "Stop to think." That means we need to stop the other activities, turn off sounds, etc. so we can think.

The brain is not designed to multi-task. It is a stressful action. Learning to not multi-task can reap benefits.

With two kids running around, it's very, very difficult to both keep stimulation and stress at low levels. The noise is continuous. The visual hub bub is continuous. And as this is where I live, there's no other choice besides putting my head in a sound proof, vision proof helmet. It's improved quite a bit, but it's slow going. Does the brain just stop improving? Or do you think in my case it will continue to do so? Does the stimulation help the brain plastercise? Or simply slow down the healing process?

I read so much conflicting information, it's like nobody has any clue what they're talking about.

"Does the stimulation help the brain plastercise? Or simply slow down the healing process?
I read so much conflicting information, it's like nobody has any clue what they're talking about. "

The brain heals best during non-symptomatic periods. I don't understand the plastercise question. What conflicting info are you finding ?

Have you tried to teach the kids to be less noisy ? Noise is not a necessary part of being a kid. I believe kids are conditioned to expect life to be loud and rambunctious. I was one of 6 kids in a 3 bedroom house. My wife and I raised 3 kids without over-stimulating noise. Noise is for outside (outside voices). A less stimulating environment is possible. Maybe you can find a medium level that is tolerable.

Ear plugs??

There is plenty of conflicting information and advice out there. For example, one website will say: the injured brain needs total rest. Another will say, the injured brain will require mild stimulation so it can use brain plasticity to rewire itself. Others with say, once the brain is injured, it can never heal, you have a certain amount of brain cells and that is it. Another will say, exercise can help something called neurogenesis, this means that your brain heals cells and even regenerates new ones.

It's all very confusing.

The information out there needs to be filtered. The total rest concept is old and not supported by more recent understanding. The mild stimulation is valuable to encourage good blood flow. The rewiring, plasticity, and neuro-regeneration all fall into the same concept. i.e. How does the brain respond to injury ? What is often missing is the criteria for each concept. More severe injuries have a potential for a greater recovery. With proper rehab, the brain will find ways to get functional.

Then there is relative levels of injury and recovery. The lesser injuries, concussions, will see improvements but not as drastic as the severe injuries. For example. With a severe TBI, the patient may recover from a 2 or 3 out of 10 to a 7 or 8 out of 10. That is quite a recovery. Wow, almost dead to able to walk and talk and feed oneself and even carry on a conversation.

For a concussion, the patient is only injured to a 7 or 8. Recovering to an 8 or 9 is common but considered problematic. We often start our recovery where others hope to finish their recovery.

Most plasticity comments are about the severely injured. Their brains find new ways of doing a function. So, they go from no function or minimally functional to able to function.

The research shows that for people like us, we attain much of our recovery by learning new ways to function. Fighting a dysfunction rarely gets us to a restoration of that function. Learning new ways to do that function can get us back to a 'sense' of normal functioning.

Neurogenesis, if it truly happens, is a slow process. It is more of a maintenance process than a healing process. The brain does not grow new brain cells to replace damaged ones. The belief is that it is constantly but slowly adding brain cells. But, that regeneration slows as we age. Plus, those new cells still need to be 'programmed.' If you think of it, most of our brain's programming took place over a decade or two, birth to 25 years old.

Most of the healing of brain cells happens in the first few days to a few weeks. By then, the brain has decided which damaged cells have healed to a functional level and which have not. Those that have not are shut down. The brain has a signalling process that shuts down dysfunctional cells.

The mild stimulation is valuable at getting good blood flow to the cells that are trying to recover.

The brain can get stagnant. If it is not used, the cells can go sort of dormant. So, this mild stimulation helps keep these cells from going dormant. Those dormant cells can be rehabilitated by use. It appears some of these cells go dormant in a sort of 'duck for cover' action. Stress causes dysfunction so they 'duck for cover' from the stress.

Moving forward from where we are is the best path. Trying to live life as we used to will cause stress and dysfunction. Having a family willing to make accommodations is extremely beneficial.

So, judging by what you said, considering I'm currently around an 7-8, I have very little chance of ever improving? I'm basically stuck with daily headaches forever. I can't even work out most of my triggers, it's so subtle.

So much for the confidence of my neurologist.

No, What I said was that doctors have little interest in focusing on improvements past the 7-8 level. Improving past that level is up to us and is usually slow at coming. We can seek out specific help, vestibular, vision, etc. but doctors and others are not likely to go out of their way to determine if we should be referred to these other diagnostics and therapies.

I'm in the midst of a mega headache, so it's probably dampened my mood somewhat. It's hard going for sure, but I'm going for at least 98%. That's my goal. One thing I've noticed with this us that it goes through different phases. So one month you'll be going through a nausea phase. Then you'll get a head ache phase after the nausea has gone. Then my neck and back of head may play up. And round we go. Any idea why this occurs?

If you are at 70 to 80%, I suggest you aim for 75 to 85%. When you can maintain that, aim for 80 to 90%. One step at a time so you have attainable goals. Otherwise, you will constantly fight against yourself.

There is a saying, Normal is only a setting on the clothes drier.

Good idea. I seem to be going through a phase of very good days, and a head ache in the evening. I'm not sure what is triggering these head aches, but it could be the fact that I have not been sleeping well due to a bad tickly cough, which keeps me awake much of the night, so my brain is getting fatigued. I will admit that I am still going through a grieving period of sorts, although it is improving. I was very fit and strong before this happened, few things were physically challenging for me, and I have been having a rough time coming to terms with my self image. I feel on occasion I'm letting my family down and that I can't be the father and husband I want to be at times because I just have to go a 'lie down'

Pre injury, this was impossible. And I admit that makes me feel sad.